Any help or advice anyone can give to me will be more than appreciated. I have already been able to take many of the things presented here to heart and consider them. Here's my story (likely not all of it but gives you some indication of what's happened to date).

History:
I have been married to my wife, a lovely red head, for 5.5 years, we have been in an exclusive relationship for 8 years. She has a 9 year old daughter by another marriage (divorced 1st husband when daughter was less than one year old). First marriage for my wife was result of unplanned pregnancy and only lasted a couple of years. I have been married once before this for 9 years (married at 21 yrs of age) w/ no kids from that relationship.) My wife and I starting dating about 8 years ago today and shortly thereafter (about 14-16 months) fell in love with one another. We married at about the 24-30 month mark after beginning to date. We recently had a baby boy that is now 11 months old. My wife had severe post partum depression with her daughter. I suspect that she has had some with our new baby but gets angry when I suggested it. The little girl calls me Daddy even though she occasionally sees her biological father. I am Daddy to her and I always have been. We have had a good marriage for the most part. We both are Christians and church going individuals. I have taught Sunday school and she has taught children’s choir and sang in the Women’s praise band. I had noticed that after the baby was born our time together had been limited. We had not had any real time to ourselves in about the first 7 months after the baby was born. Our sex life had become limited at best due to the pregnancy and the following post/pre eclampsya my wife endured after the pregnancy. We tried to almost 3 years to have our baby before he came along. She took a lot of drugs for infertility and drugs for the pre/post eclampsya after that. After the baby was born my wife stayed at home mostly only working a couple of days per month at the local hospital as a contract RN. Mostly this past summer (’05) was spent taking care of the kids, taking them to the pool, welcoming me home with a kiss and kind words and dinner in the afternoon. My job in sales and marketing required me to be gone about 30-35% of the time. We don’t really have any financial problems as we have no debt and I alone make well over $100k per year. She doesn’t have to work. I never really noticed anything being wrong with our marriage other than the hastle and struggles of raising a family with a new born, a 9 year old, laundry, work, paying bills, etc. until about October ’05. You need to know that around Sept. ’05 my wife and another nurse friend took a job (supposed to be a 13 week contract) at another hospital for the 7p-7a shift 14 days per month. It required overnight stays at the local hotel since the hospital was one hour away. I only agreed that she take the job (she wasn’t even sure that she wanted to initially) so that we could save the earnings from the 13 week stint and put down on a house back where we used to live 5 years ago. She had indicated that she wanted to move back. We are currently living on my wife’s family farm with no expense other than monthly household expenses. Little did I know at the time that this job would be the curse from ******.



We had an argument around Halloween and she told me on the phone that she was not happy with our marriage. I immediately asked what was wrong and she could only point to a couple of things that made her unhappy such as my micromanaging our finances, and things of that nature. When I saw her I immediately threw my arms around her and we hugged and cried together. I told her that I was willing to change those things that my hurt her or not meet her needs if I know what they are. We talked for a while then went to bed.



From that point on and up through the end of the year I began immediately changing things about me that I felt would meet her emotional needs in a greater way. Unfortunately, I noticed that while I was doing this from Oct. – Dec. that the response I was getting was minimal at best. I started to suspect something and asked her and her friend if my wife was seeing someone to which I got a resounding no and strange looks like I can’t believe you even think that. I asked this question a couple of more times with assurances that there was no one else. Some things happened and I received information from my wife’s nurse friend’s husband that hinted that something with either or both of them may be going on at the hospital. On January 4th of this year my worst fears were confirmed when I confronted my wife once more on the phone and she finally told me that she had been talking to someone. I went crazy and went straight to the nurse friend’s home dragging both the friend and the husband from bed demanding the truth. The husband informed me that his sources confirmed that she was having a EA and PA with a 57 year old Doctor that works in the ER on some weekends and that the EA likely started around October of ’05. Indications were that the PA happened on hospital grounds during work hours. My wife is 34 and I am 43. To my knowledge (and I am pretty sure) neither of us has ever had an affair on a spouse before this. After confronting my wife with the information I had she cried some but not like Niagara Falls or anything. She all but confirmed through her answers and non answers that the affair was both EA and PA. I asked her all the questions you would ask. Why? Why have you done this to our family. Who is it. Etc..

She told me that she loves me but that she isn’t in love with me anymore and that our marriage was not like a wife ought to love a husband and then proceeded to tell me that it started going downhill a couple of years ago (that was news to me, it seemed that we had a good marriage and loved one another dearly). I told her that I didn’t even sense remorse or repentance on her part and her response was “I’m sorry that people got hurt”. She also begin to lose the baby weight around Sept. ’05. She would barley eat anything. I am sure it was due to compliments the other man was giving her. My wife has a very tough exterior but is in my opinion insecure underneath. She has a very tough time getting beyond surface emotions and talking deeply. Although I am sure that this affair started because he and she both began to talk about their marriages and spouses and how needs weren’t being met. They have the medical field in common and work together on many occasions. All of this contributed I am sure. While I was at home raising our kids and keeping them she was off developing an affair instead of coming to me and talking to me about what she was feeling she was giving it all to the other man, including physical affection. There was nothing left when she would get home. She would tell me that she wants to be intimate with me but just can’t. I told her after I found out that no wonder she couldn’t she was not a ****** who sleeps with multiple partners. There was nothing left for me after expending all that you had to meet the needs of a man you barley know. I am not perfect and I can see where there were emotional needs that I was not meeting effectively but in an overall sense I treated her extremely well, perhaps too well (too much babying, queen treatment, etc).



In classic, controlling form, I gave my wife an ultimatum to quit the job, stop seeing this man old enough be a father to us both, come home and get into marriage counseling. She got very angry at me telling her what to do and told me she needed some space and time to think. After no action on her part I tell her that I want her to come home and work on our marriage and if not then I will call the other man. She goes to work as usual on a Friday. I proceed to call the other man at home on Saturday and notify him that I know what’s happening and that I expect it to stop. We set up a meeting for Tuesday. My wife never mentions me calling this man. Tuesday came and I call his office and he tries to avoid me so I tell his receptionist that I can likely resolve the matter with his wife if I don’t here back from him soon. He calls in 15 minutes and we talk by phone and decide that a face to face meeting isn’t necessary. He tries to deny anything saying that he has told my wife that she and I need to work things out. I tell him that my wife has admitted to the affair and he says “ she has”? I proceed to tell him about our family, kids, etc and that I have every intention of giving our family and marriage every last chance to recover from this and that I don’t expect that he will hinder that in any way going forward. He says that he will not. I tell him that this is the last conversation of this type that we will ever have and say goodbye. He is 57 years old, has a wife and a live in mother with a son, daughter-in-law and perhaps grandkid in Florida living at the family condo. Again, my wife does not mention this in anyway to me.



Since that time we have agreed on a temporary living arrangement whereby while she is not at the home (owned by her father and uncle) that I will stay and be with the kids since she is working out of town anyway. This is about 14-16 nights per month. We have talked on the phone amicably since the day we had the blow up about me being committed to the marriage and family as well as my plan to call the other man, etc. Over the past weekend she called 2-3 times for stuff that really didn’t matter. Of course she was working in our home town where she still wears her wedding rings. She does not wear them when she goes out town to the other hospital (where the other man also works) to work, I dropped the kids off last Sunday and she had dinner cooked. We took the stitches from our little girl’s leg from having a wart removed. These were about two days late in coming out and my wife, a nurse no less, said that she just forgot to take them out a few days before. They were about to become infected. She has quit going to Church. She is hanging with a bad crown including the nurse friend I mentioned (three marriages, three kids by three different fathers, 17 year old daughter tried to commit suicide, etc, etc…Jerry Springer). I am trying not to talk with her very much right now and when I do to keep it really calm and neutral. She doesn’t seem to care about anything but either getting out of the marriage (she hasn’t filed for divorce or even contacted an attorney to my knowledge, of course she has no grounds in Mississippi. I am the only one with grounds.) or going to work (likely for three reasons as best I can tell, 1. Escape from reality of kids, diapers, feeding, laundry, bills, me. 2. to keep her job so as to feel independent of my help. 3. to continue to see the other man in some form even if they have cooled it for now?) We recently talked and divided up the bills of the household. I hear that the other man has been called a “pervert” and has had other affairs although I have not been able to document as of yet.



I am very hurt, devastated and betrayed as you might imagine. I have lost 40 lbs (some on purpose but some not). I am on AD medication and it seems to help some. It seems as if my wife has checked out emotionally with me and somewhat with the kids although she is still taking care of their needs when she is with them. She has eluded or distanced herself from all old friends and contacts that were once important to her and everything goes into work and probably thinking of this other relationship and what may yet be or at least of getting out of the marriage . It amazes me how she can seem so unconcerned about our marriage (maybe because in her mind she has already moved on??) and me after I loved her and was a good husband, man and father (her words..) for those 8 years of the relationship.



What do I do to save our marriage? Is there anything that I should do?? I admit that I still love her but it is fading fast. But I will do what I can as long as there is hope for the sake of our kids and my vows and for my wayward wife. I feel that she is about to ruin her life forever and take our kids and me with her if we don’t somehow save this marriage and family. Please help if you can.



I have a session with Steve Harley next Monday.


--------------------
dated 2.5 years
married 5.5 years
BS(43) me / WS(34) / DD(9 yrs) , DS (11 months)
D-Day (1/4/05) Plan A 10-31-05
WW A 10/10/05 - Current ????? (says she is not seeing him, I asked her does she want to and she said the they agreed that it was best not to see each other “for now”???)

BUMP... ANYONE GOT ANY IDEAS OR CAN ANYONE ADVISE AS TO WIFE'S ACTIONS, ATTITUDE? ARE THEY NORMAL OF A WAYWARD SPOUSE?

It's good that you have the appointment with Steve. In the meantime buy the book Surviving an Affair and read everything here.

It's most likely that the affair didn't stop but I don't need to tell you that...your wife has by her actions. You can't recover from this until that relationship has ended. What you need to do is expose this relationship. Inform his wife and family as well as hospital administration. Don't warn ahead of time just do it.

Keep reading and posting here. Steve will help you with the details and will give great advice.

Read all you can on this site. If you want to follow MB principles and methodology then you are going about a lot of things the wrong way.

For example: why the heck talk to OM? It’s the OMW and his work that has to know. Read about exposure and the purpose of exposure. As is Om and your wife only have to convince you they are not seeing each other.

Expose to OMW and all of a sudden he has to strive to save that marriage. Expose to work and all of a sudden the hospital management is afraid of unethical conduct.

I am glad that you have an appointment with Steve Harley.

Hang in there. I know it seems like Monday is a world away, but it'll be here soon.

Have you exposed her affair to work, family, and friends?

hopeandpray -

I'm very sorry to hear of your situation. VERY glad to hear you've set up an appointment with Steve Harley though.

Your wife is acting like a very typical WS. She is following the script to a 'T'.

I don't believe for a second that OM and WW have stopped seeing each other.

You need to expose this A to his wife (she has the right to know and could help end the A very quickly) and to the hospital. As long as they can continue to act out the affair fantasy and keep the secrecy excitement going it will be very hard to end the A. Affairs thrive on the secrecy. Exposing to the light of day will help very much.

Plan A whenever possible and try to get her back into your home. Although it can be done without living together, it's much easier if your under the same roof and living as a family.

My guess is the SH will also strongly recommend exposure and give you great advice on how to proceed. You couldn't have found a better advisor.

Good luck.

FIM

Thank you all so much. I thank God for this site. I have not yet exposed to OMW. I threatened to do so during our conversation. I let my WW intimidate me by saying "if you do I will never speak to you again" during one heated argument on D day. I don't think she knows as of now. I could also expose to my wife's boss who contracts nurses and works himself at the hospital in quesiton. I could tell HR and the administration and maybe even some board of ethics for the medical profession?? I will wait to see what Steve says on Monday before doing anything. Again, any and all suggestions, constructive criticism, etc are welcomed.

When you do expose, just do it. Don't tell her first. That gives her and OM the opportunity to work a story.

As for the "I'll never speak to you again" line? Just another typical WS statement.

Of course she's gonna be mad, expect it. Be ready to hear every threat imaginable, every name you can think of and of course she'll tell you that she was going to work on things but now she can't/won't. TYPICAL. It happens everytime.

Your marriage has no chance of recovery until the affair has stopped. That is your number 1 priority. One of the best ways to stop it is exposure. Essentially what she is doing is intimidating you into allowing the continuation of the demise of your marriage.

Stand up for your wife, who truly needs her man (yes, YOU) right now. Fight for it! She doesn't and won't for a long time, realize the gift you are giving her by standing for what is right. You will have to know it in your heart and act accordingly in the face of great anger.

Like I said before, I strongly believe SH will tell you to expose. It's hard, it's scary. It's also one of the best weapons against the affair you have.

Again, good luck to you. You really do have a great chance of saving your marriage.

FIM

Thank you so much faithinme. I am trying to be strong for our family and my wife at a time when everyone else (including my family who are deeply hurt and betrayed) says to throw her out and her rear. Do you or anyone else with more experience here think that this marriage can be saved? I want to believe this in the worst way. I will do whatever Steve tells me to do as what I have done up to this point (pleading, rationalizing, threatening, crying, appealing, etc have fallen on deaf ears). Thanks to all of you on this board who respond and help others like myself. I think we should all make it a point each night to pray for those who are on this board who are hurting including the wayward spouses (for their hearts to be softened and conviction to capture them).

Sadly, Yes. These are VERY typical actions for a WW. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

Buy a nice blank notebook. Start writing in it. Write in it each day, Your feelings, if you spoke to your W, what you spoke about. What you are doing with the children. What you are doing to try and improve things. The responce of the W.

If you keep this up you will start to see patterns of what seems to work and what doesn't. It can also be used to protect yourself if the W starts to make up stories about you.

My W & I have 3 childrn. DD13, DD9, & DD10mo. Went through the "Baby Blues" with each of them.

The wife that you new isn't around right now. In her place is a WW. They are sadly very predictable. She will soon start with the "revisionist" history. As an example take any random happy family memory you have. It will be recast into the WW being the "myrtar" and unhappy and you become the selfish and greedy one.

Have you read up on plan A yet? If not do so and start to implement immediately! Remember no LB'ing. Always be calm and unflappable (at least on the outside).

1st point of order. Destroy the A. EXPOSE, do whatever you need to do but destroy the A. As long as she in active in the A, it will not matter what we do, she will not come back.

Your WW will be furious when you expose, Doesn't matter. Your M can survive your WW temporary anger. It CANNOT survive an ongoing A.

What first attracted her to you / you to her? Try to recover that and assure her that you will not allow yourself to "drift away" again.

A very good starting point.

Keep posting. There are a lot of people here who can help you through this.

Stay strong.

I truly do believe your marriage can be saved. I've been reading her since early August of 2004 and can tell you I have been amazed at the marriages that have been saved.

Have you read Bobpure's threads? Inspirational! Do a search for his threads (he started here about the same time I did) and you will be able to see just one of the many examples of how these plans can work in your marriage.

You may find that much of what you learn here is going to go against your instincts and the advice of well meaning loved ones. It works though and working with a plan of action rather than running around allowing your emotions to dictate what you do will be a relief you sorely need in your life right now.

FIM

YES. Just a simple yes. I think it can. There are many success stories here.

God Bless you.
there is hope - there is always hope.
You have a lot of good advice here. Read, Read, and Read. It helps so much to hear similar stories, and see that there is hope.
Another good book - Hope for the Seperated. That book really comforted me during my own experience. It talked about how to love your spouse while they are acting crazy
Also - James Dobsons Love Must be Tough.This one helps you to gain your own self respect and draw boundaries for yourself.
It sounds like you are doing a lot of the right things. I know it doesn't help to hear that - but its true.

Sadly, yes. It's almost textbook infidelity 101.

I agree with the advice re getting "Surviving an Affair" and also exposure. Expose to OMW, OM's mother etc. Expose in the workplace. Expose to people of significance in your wife's life.

Your #1 priority is to end the affair and exposure will do a nice job of that most of the time.

For IMMEDIATE help, continur reading here and follow the link regarding the infidelity FAQ's in my signature. They will really help you.

I had a wonderful session with Steve Harley on Monday of this week. He explained everything to me...my feelings, how she likely arrived at having an A, what probably triggered it, why she was susceptible, what 's she's currently thinking, and on and on. He was spot on. He said that he still believed our marriage could be saved like many others he has worked with as long as I was committed for the both of us for now. Doesn't seem fair that I am the one doing the work does it?

I called hoping that he would tell me what a lot of you have said in posts above..EXPOSE, EXPOSE, etc. But, he told me that the signs I had seen likely indicate that the A partner who has a lot to lose if found out has probably told my WW to "let's cool it for a while", your husband called me on our A and sent a veiled threat to expose to my wife and others of importance. Steve felt that this has probably helped cool off the A. That coupled with her not working with this person most of the time (ususally another Doctor about 90% of the time)is good for now. He told me to save the maximum exposure like an ace in the hole if other things do not work. He told me to continue Plan A, eliminate LB's and specifically to read SAA and H/N H/N. After reading H/N H/N he told me to approach my wife very informally with the notion that this book was very informative to me and in my mind showed my a lot of things that allowed our marriage to get to where it is today. As a favor, would you mind looking over it and letting me know if the information is as accurate as I find it to be? No pressure or R talk or any of that for now.

any comments?

Do any of you think that Steve's advice to continue plan A and trying to get her to offer feedback (unknowingly having her read it and hopefully absorb the information) from H/N H/N is enough for now?

I somehow want to know that the A has stopped or been put on hold or something!! Should I consider getting a digital voice activated recorder put into her truck to see what her and the crappy friend (that helped enable the A) talk about on their 1 hour trip to and from work at the hospital?

You can spy if it will help you for sure. Steve is the master here so I would most definitely follow his advice.

Update:

I have received from excellent advice from Steve Harley and others on this board. I fear that the affair is still going on in some manner although it has likely cooled some. My wife made a comment to me that she was no longer seeing the OM but when pressed as to whether she would like to she said "we talked and agreed its best we not see each other for now." I don't think he ever told my WW of my conversations with him since she never confronted me about them and ususally is not one to shy away from becoming angry and confrontational. I still think something is up due to "secret cell phone" (She doesn't know that I know about this) and still going to work at the place the EA/PA took (is taking?) place.

We have had a few good conversations recently, not too deep though. She even came home from work a week or so back to help me take care of our little boy (11 months old) who was sick. I think she felt guilty. We slept in the same bed for the first time in about a month or so and I stroked her face and hair and she sort of just relaxed and let me, didn't pull away or act like it bothered her. But, I am getting nothing in way of her in terms of any committment to work on our marriage (counseling, talking, etc). During a recent testy conversation where a former best friend really let her have it about new unsavory friends, lifestyle, affair, etc. the only thing she really seemed concerned about was who all knew about the A and how much and that the former best friend was talking down (albeit correctly so) about her "new" friends and lifestyle choice of being gone from our children over 1/2 of each month. very angry but my new skills were used and while I called her to accountability and told her to look in the mirror I did so in a loving way that ended with mutual "love yous". I ask her in this same conversation about us and where we are headed and her reply at the height of her anger was "right now is not a good time to ask me that, I am very angry (yea, angry because someone told her the truth)."

I am trying (spying) to find out if there has been a much, any, etc contact since I discussed this with OM and my WW on January 4, 2006. I suspect their has but have not been able to confirm as of yet. I tried this weekend to call OMW and tell her of the A (wished I had already done so) but could not reach anyone at the residence. I know that my WW actions (hot and cold, friendly, then irritable and angry, etc) indicate something still going on even if less than before (full blown A at the place of business). I will contact OMW before week's end and if this does not get WW off dead center then I may send already drafted letter to the HR manager (PA took place on hospital grounds on hospital time) at the hospital and my WW direct superior.

We are having a B'day party for my little boy next Saturday (he will be 1!). I would like to know what someone thinks of me taking a piece of birthday cake and my son and daugter over to the hospital ER and walking up in there and introducing my family to the entire staff so that they all know (some will not care as they are the "posse" of enablers, supporters, etc) what kind of great person my WW is that she leaves a good looking, successful 43 YO husband and father, a 9 yo daughter, and a 1 year old son to come over to this den of eniquity and have an A with a 57 yo married man. Maybe they will not quite look at her the same way after that. What do you think. Up till now no one knows any of our faces of this devstation that she has wrought with her selfish, teenager like, immoral, non-repentatnt irresponsible, bitter and resentful actions.

I also intend to tell her that the temporary living arrangement of me being there when she's not there and here being there the balance of the time doesn't work for me. I want to see my kids every night. They are not a burden to me like they may be to her. I like all that comes with having them the good the bad and the real life (not fantasy land at the hospital, hotel, etc) it conjures up. This will likely make her very mad if she is still in them middle of an A (she certainly has not asked me to come back which I would think either indicates the A is still on in some manner or hope springs eternal that it may yet be or she simply is trying to determine what she wants to do (try and save the M, bail regardless of the A potential, or other). She has not mentioned D or attained legal rep.

I have plan A'd for about three months after finding out that she was unhappy (little did I know until 3 months later she was in the middle of a workplace A). I have continued to Plan A even in spite of myself. I have not LB'd, I have not had DJ's, I have loved her in spite of the hurt and devasation she has caused (causing) to our children and me and our family and friends. Yet, she seems as prideful and defensive as ever when confronted with what she has chosen to do, no one forced her. As a matter of fact, while not perfect I was and am a really good husband and better father. Does this anger and defensiveness seem to hint at the A still being on? To what extent? Did the OM give her hope of a future or not and if not is she still harboring hope like a crack addict thinking they will find their next fix around the next corner?

I exposed to our Sunday School class yesterday and we had a 15 minute group cry session, not a dry eye one including the men. She does not know this yet but when she finds out will likely go ballistic again since the exposure to a few friends, family, and OM (don't know if she knows I spoke with him, see above comments) have to this point all elicted an angry response. However, the anger has subsided quicker than in past and a few good conversations taken place afterward. I think this may be more about my handling the conversations with calmness, truth, low voice, no arguing, lb'ing, dj'ing, etc. Don't really know?

I will be spending the night at the home tonight with her since my little girl has a beatuy review that will run late. I imagine that we will share the same bed again. Should I try and talk with her, touch her (don't worry, I don't have any SF for her at all right now) in a non aggressive way (stroke her hair, touch her face, hold her hand) or just talk with her or both?

Any insight is greatly appreciated especially from FWW.

This is what happened:

You put fear into the cockroach when you said or implied to him that you'd spill the beans to his wife. Because he's likely a serial cheater and has been confronted with this situation before, he put your wife on hold to let things "cool" (translation: he dropped her) and is likely after another nurse by now. To him, your wife is history. Used up because of your threat. No longer worth his risk. Your wife believed his "cool it" story and is waitng for him.

The cockroach has moved on.

Your wife is still very much in a one-way affair.

I could be wrong, but run this by Steve (Tell 'em I said Hi.) and consider the comments from all others.

I suggest you hold off any further exposure for now in case I'm right. Keep your eyes and ears open.

It's hit the fan

WAT, you were right on as best I can tell. The OM, once I spoke with him, did (apparently) indeed show to be the coward he is. He told my WW that they needed to re-think this little A. I spent Monday night with my WW, DS and DD. My DD had a beauty review that we attended as a family. The WW was kind of cool but tolerable. When we got home we put the kids to bed and retired to the same bed ourselves. Something told me to press her about the OM and I did.

conversation:
ME: Are you still seeing OM?
WW: I told you two weeks ago we weren't seeing each
ME: What happened?
WW: I don't want to talk about it" (rolling over to go to sleep)
ME: Did he tell you I spoke with him?" (Boy, did this wake her up.)
WW: "WHAT?" (I repeated myself)
WW: I told you not to call him
ME: You told me not to contact his wife
WW: I told you not to contact either of them
ME: I will do whatever I deem necessary to protect our family and to protect you from yourself and self destructive behaviors
WW: I'm not being self destructive
ME: That's the path you are traveling
WW: I am so mad at you
ME: I know but I don't really care about anyone's feelings outside of our family. How they feel or what they feel is of no concern of mine.
WW leaves the bed and returns about 5 minutes later and we both go to sleep

Tuesday morning;
ME: Good morning
WW: Morning
ME: Are you still mad at me?
WW: Well, I still upset with you
ME: I will selfishly protect you.
WW: (just looking at me)

DD and I leave for a gifted class field trip (all day) and WW keeps baby.

Arrive back around 4:30 PM today. WW gone from home. WW returns home about 15 min. after us. I reach to give her a kiss and she gives me her cheek. We all go into the living room and sit down and WW informs me that the "good" friends I have been telling you about (the terrible, enabling friends) are coming over to deliver our new mattress and box springs and that since we are all in the know about the little A that it might be more comfortable if I wasn't there.
ME: More comfortable for who me or the ones that have been enabling and lying about your A?
WW: Well I just think you should leave.
ME: I may leave, I may not
WW: The I'll leave
ME: Fine, don't take the kids
WW: Yea, the kids are coming with me
ME: You take the kids and I will call 911 before you get out the door.
WW: (madder than heck, walks out of the room)

We go upstairs to talk further away from DD.

WW: I madder than ******, I found your little tape recorder your left. (I did leave one taped to the chair that she usually makes her little cell phone calls from when I am not there; I needed to know "for certain" that OM and WW were on the outs so that true marriage work could start, not much of a James Bond apparently)
ME: Well, you got me there. I only wanted to confirm what you told me about the end of the A w/ OM. You will have to forgive me if I don't believe anything you say.
WW: I am not going to live like this. I have had the phones checked for bugs
ME: and you found nothing because I have not done anything short of this incident
ME: Our marriage had no chance as long as you are seeing this man and I needed to know and I do not apologize for needing to know.
ME: Are you dead set on wanting a D?
WW: I want a D
ME: Fine, but understand that I have no intention of seeing our DS (our child together) only half the time
WW: What do you mean?
ME: You know what I mean.
WW: No judge is going to take these kids from me no matter what I've done.
ME: No matter that our DS was 7 months old and you were F'ing some Grandpa in the hospital ER and spending half your time away from him.
WW: Well you looked at porn the first year we were married. (is that all she's got, from 6 years ago no less)
WW: This is the same to me.
ME: Bull S***, me looking at some naked girl I don't know and you being pawed by some man in God only knows what positions is not the same, but you keep telling yourself that. You've done a good job of justifying the unjustufiable to this point.
ME: Look, I am not making any promises to you and expect nothing in return. As a matter of fact if it was just you and me the ink would already be dry on the D papers within a day of me finding out. But it's not just you and me. The two kids deserve our best effort before quitting. That's what I want.
ME: If you could believe that hope exists and that we could once again be in love with one another and our kids have their mom and dad under one roof building a new marriage would you believe that this would be the ideal outcome.
WW: I don't know.
ME: Well then you don't know s***.

"enabling friend arrives"
I call her upstairs and we talk....

In short I tell her that I don't appreciate how she helped enable WW A and that a true friend would have helped her stop at the chance of not getting to be her friend any longer instead of making a half hearted effort and then enabling. I told her that all I want from my wife is for both of us to give our marriage a chance for our kids and ourselves and see what happens (i.e.-talking, MC (Harleys), etc) If it works out then great and if not perhaps we will break down the anger, resentment and hurt in order to be friends that can have our children's best interest at heart. She said that she would speak with her when she wasn't so angry. She also said that my WW and OM had quit talking to one another. I also got her "friend" to confirm that I had a right to not believe anything my WW says to me and to verify everything.

We spoke on the phone and I tried to tell her that this anger and resentment brings out the worst in both us and that my heart still cares for her. I told her that I need her answer pretty soon regarding whether she would make a commitment to work on our marriage or not. If she answers no then I suppose I have to consider plan B to keep hope alive and to protect the small amount of love and respect I still have for the one woman buried inside my WW body. The WW person, I will never stay married to. If not, I guess I will file D and seek sole physical and legal custody of DS and visitation with DD (step D).

Has anyone gotten this far down the line and still kept hope alive and possibility of reconciliation alive or even succeeded and intitated recovery?

I know that I LB'd and DJ'd and more but I have just had it with her standing there and being angry with me when she ought to be on her d*** knees asking forgiveness. I have tried very hard not to LB and DJ but lost today in the anger stage I am in. Help me, get my head back on straight. We left it as if we will just give each other a litte more space and keep conversations light for the rest of the week for sure.

Thanks all. Blast away with any suggestions, criticis, advice, etc. I need it desperately.