Your WW is a TYPICAL WW...

learn carrot and stick of plan A....and learn the big bad stick of plan b too.

I side with Lemonman. this is an a textbook affair..would have happened if she were a secretary wtih her boss...or if she were head of the school board with a teacher...

the possible scenarios for affairs go on and on.

and shame on you mortarman!

I really resent the typecasting and prejudices against healthcare professionals such as presented here.

next time YOU OR A LOVED ONE is facing a life and death struggle, think about the words you just wrote to us...our jobs are underappreciated. We work AS PROFESSIONALS...and my reputation clinically is also equated by my reputation personally too.

My work is my second love...behind that only of my ds. Best feeling in the world is being a mom...second best is helping somebody as a health care professional.

Look. Professional growth and introspection happens to most people. I have a girlfriend who's H had an affair during law school. does that mean all lawyers sleep w/paralegals? no. I have another friend from church who's W had an affair during the time she was working on her MBA..

what's in common?

TIME SPENT AWAY FROM HOME EMOTIONALLY BONDING WITH OTHERS.

wanna affair proof your M if your siggie other wants to go back to school or embark on life changing journey?

easy.

be supportive.

get involved in what THEY'RE DOING...TAKE AN INTEREST IN IT...instead of complaining about it as my friends who were the Bs did...they know now as two of them are recovered, that they needed to show interest...genuine interest in their spouse's achievements and what's important to their spouse. and if you "keep in tune" with your spouse...guess what? YOUR SPOUSE WILL JUST MAYBE BE SUPPORTIVE OF YOU TOO!

another hint..many of us women..especially moms...who are having to work STRESSFUL JOBS while also being a mom and also taking care of a home...feel UNAPPRECIATED...that's where the risk lies. anybody could fill the need for appreciation...doctor, the lawyer, the mailman, the garbageman, a guy at starbucks..could be anyone.

We as women wear alot of hats...and although I've never been a WS...I can feel their pain and understand why some women go outside of their marriages. and why some men do so too.

take the time to understand WHAT IS IMPORTANT TO YOUR SPOSE...TAKE THE EN QUESTIONAIRRE. try it.

AND ABOVE ALL..

QUIT BASHING US...I certainly hope when your loved one or yourself are in the ER with a serious medical emergency, you don't get smart with the doc or nurse or other professional and ask if we're good to help you out because we got laid in the broom closet and during an extended gossip session and coffee break we read the latest issue of cosmo.

Hold it right there Peach....now we don't want to be using the lawyers as an example here....it might kill our argument... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> (kidding folks, just kidding)

Yea...they're not all bad...not all of them...

lmao lem.

I'm off the health care profession and back to my thread and need your valuable opinions about a letter I had written to my WW further expounding upon some of the discussion you may read above from Tuesday night of this week where I did "okay" according to the board but did have some DJ's and LB's to overcome.

Letter:
WW,


I wanted to write you this because sometimes when we try and talk the anger on both sides takes over and what I want you to hear is not what is necessarily said or we get completely off track and end up hurting one another. As for me, I am deeply sorry for the anger I and frustration that led me to say some of the things I did Tuesday. I had truly intended on talking with you in a calm and collected manner aimed at getting past resentment on both sides and I failed miserably. I will not let this happen again. So, during our discussion on Tuesday night I said some things that I want to respond to.

Firstly, I want to tell you that I lied when I said that the ink would already be dry on the paper had this happened and we had no children to consider. This is not true. I was and am in tremendous pain and a state of hurting I cannot describe. The truth is that if we did not have children I would still want to try and work things out with you because while I love our children and want to protect them I too love you and want you to know that I would find our marriage worth saving if it was just you and me. Time to reflect on what I said has a way of hitting you with the truth and what I said to you was not the truth only a way to mask my pain.

Secondly, you told me that I always acted as if I wanted you to work and that I had asked over and over again about this position or that position. You were correct. I have done that and if I told you that I haven’t or tried to justify it someway then I am truly sorry. I did truly however enjoy the time that you rarely worked this past summer and was able to spend time with the kids. It appeared that your demeanor was better for having done so. As you know, I have been concerned about our financial position over the years. I sometimes think that you rely too heavily on “things just working out”. I probably am too much of a planner and somewhere in the middle is healthy. We could learn from each other. Neither of us has to be right all of the time. I was concerned however after we worked so hard to get rid of the $80,000+ or better in debt in 4 years or so (not counting the $200,000 home) of ever falling into that trap again. I was concerned about our kids having money available for college and living expenses. I was concerned about you and I being able to provide a suitable life for ourselves in retirement. This was a heavy burden and one that I basically felt that I carried alone in terms of concern. This is my fault since I just did it and when you didn’t see the importance of it I would try and control your opinion instead of sitting down with you and telling you how I felt and asking for your help and support which I am sure you would have given. The new job you took is one that I never really wanted you to take. It only became necessary in my mind when I thought you were dropping hints of wanting to move back to Tupelo. Well, if we did that then I wanted to make a large down payment so that you could continue as a stay at home mom (should you desire to) and could focus on our children, home, etc and not worry about us falling into any negative financial situation. The new job and its short term (13 weeks is what we discussed) seemed to be something that we could sacrifice for and manage in order to move back and into a nice home in a nice neighborhood. In any case I wanted you to know that I did say those things that you said I said and I am not going to try and justify them only to let you know what I was thinking if it matters to you.

Thirdly, we disagreed on your friendships and the quality thereof. It is not my place to judge your friends or the relationship you have with them. This is for you to decide. I am sorry for doing this and will ask your forgiveness. I am sure that your friends are friends for one reason or another and that they meet a need that you have. It is your decision who to call friend and the quality of that friendship is yours and yours alone to judge. Again, I am sorry for judging and putting down your opinion of your friendships. Who you call friend is entirely your call. I will not question your choice of friends again. In this case your opinion is far more important than what I think.

Lastly, I want you to know that I have said and done some things that made you angry or upset but many of these were not off base and was necessary and I hope that sometime when you are alone and in thought you will have time to reflect on them. I say this to you not to be right but because they were said/done to benefit you because I love and care about you and our marriage/family. WW, I have been hurt in a way that I hope you never have to experience. I cannot describe the pain for there are now words to do so. Even so, I hold onto hope because I know that there is a woman inside of you that I fell in love with 8 years ago and married. The woman I love is a stunningly beautiful, smart, funny, talented, adventurous, kind, giving, caring, loving, affectionate, appreciative and respectful woman with high morals and standards for herself, husband, children and friends. I have the warmest of thoughts of this woman and I often think back to times like trips to Cancun, (honeymoon), Bear Lake in California (stopping at the road side fruit stands, driving in the convertible w/ top down), Safety Harbor, FL (massages, workouts, dinners, etc), Jamaica, Puerto Rico, San Francisco, picnics at the lake, boat trips, college football games, church services and much, much more. And, I still love this woman with a deep and mature love and I want to provide every avenue to her to find her way back to us and to work on growing a new and better marriage that allows for both of us to be happier than ever before and includes the same wonderful feelings that we both experienced in better times (such as those listed above). Lastly, I continue to love her and hold a place for her in order for our children to benefit by having a loving mother and father providing an example of true love, commitment and perseverance for them to learn and grow from.

WW, I will not bring up our relationship or marriage improvement again except to say that I challenge you to study the subject/topic of what we are going through like I have and you may find hope and opportunity that you didn’t know existed or currently don’t believe exists. Also, I will not bring up, judge or otherwise directly involve myself regarding the affair (as long as it is not ongoing or re-ignited, I have already taken responsibility for things I did or did not do to protect your heart and have asked your forgiveness). I will leave any and all relationship talk to you and will be prepared should you want to discuss it. I will be your good friend (this is where we started). I will look forward to conversations with you and will hope that you will talk with me about the kids, your work, the weather, movies you’d like to see, dreams you may have, and much more non-relationship talk. I will be there for you should you want to talk deeply about anything or need a place to fall softly or have a good cry and know that you will not be judged or told how you should feel. I will make every effort to have fun with you when we see each other and not dwell on the past or the future (one day at a time). I will work to be the best father possible. I will become a better husband, lover and friend by tirelessly committing to learning and listening in hopes that you get to experience this man sometime in the near future.

With love,


BS

hap, in my experience, letters to WS are pointless. They are so fogged that they won't absorb anything and trying to educate them just pushes them father away.

I really don't think they are ready for letters until they are well into recovery.

I wrote a letter to my WW very early in the process and it had NO effect.

Right now the best course of action would be to Plan A and try to get the A to end.

You are doing good...stay strong since this is a long war!

HTW,

Thanks. My WW is better at reading than listening I think. This letter may have no initial or direct affect on her attitude but it does hopefully create a full circle for the disussion Tuesday night and let's her know that while I angry and hurt I can still think and see ways that I was wrong in my approach. At least I hope it does her.

I do think the little A is over and she is mad at me for talking to other man but may be more mad at him for not telling her talked to him before he cooled his jets with her.

PLAN A, PLAN A, PLAN A I will continue onward as the opportunity presents itself. DD has a basketball game tomorrow so I will see her then and will take them to Church on Sunday and another opportunity to see her will present itself. Pray for me. I think I may be coming down from the anger stage a little so this should help. I will not bring up the future, divorce, rebuilding, etc. I will keep it light this weekend. All the best to you HTW and have a great weekend.

Well, I saw my WW on Saturday morning at my DD basketball game. She came in and sat next to me. The game was at our church's recreational gym and most people there were from church. She walked right by most of them offering only a fake smile or hello. In the past she would have been stopped by many people to talk. She was reasonably friendly but her face expressed a certain shame, pride, guilt, anger, frustration, etc. This was extremely evident when the halftime devotional focused on raising our children and making sacrifices to our own feelings and dreams. She was wringing her hands at this point.

I took the children with me that afternoon and we had a birthday party (1 year old!!) for me little boy at my mother and father's home. Uncles/Aunts, couisns, the whole bit were there. We had a great time and took a lot o photos. I told the wife (as she was at work again, working for another "friend" on a night when she was supposed to be watching the children) we had a birthday party for DS and she barley emmitted a response. I gave her a picture frame with three photos of DS eating cake.

I took the children to church on Sunday morning and to lunch afterwards. The WW was sleeping from coming off the 7p -7a shift at her nursing job one hour away. She got up begrudginly to eat the lunch I brought her and to help our DD get ready for an afternoon Girl Scout fashion show. I took the children onto the fashion show as DD had to be there at 2:00 PM. WW came later around 3:00 PM when the show actually started. We sat together with DS and got along reasonably well as we kept the talk light. We returned home after the show. I informed her that I had to be somewhere at 6:00 PM and kissed DS and DD bye, pecked WW on cheek and left.

In short, WW seems very angry, bitter, cold, detached, prideful, and selfish. Is the A over with the OM? I seem to think it may be in his mind. In hers? I am trying to verify the end of the A for certain, i.e. no contact other than professional since they both work at the hospital. I am still trying to plan A her. It is getting very hard to do and I find my love and respect for her dwindling on a daily basis. I am struggling with the idea of whether to go on and tell OMW regardless of whether he has "cooled" it with WW. I am struggling with whether or not to send my letter to HR manager whether or not A has cooled or ended. I know that this will be a huge LB! But, on the other hand it easily could get her terminated from the this "job from ******" and send her home, away from OM, away from "friends", home to her children for more than 10 days per month, etc. I would likely be better thought of even if she would be unbelievably mad since I would be paying all of the bills. I just don't sense anything on her part right now that would give me any hope at this point. I am not giving up, I am acting cheerful(not overly), confident, and attractive. I am getting in great shape physically and in about three months will be back in really good shape.

Has any FWW been at the point where they were in no way interested in working on their marriage and yet something changed. What changed to get you interested in at least discussing saving the marriage? Help!

Any FWW's have any comments about WW current state of mind? I am still plan A'ing her. I do feel as if as long as she works at the job there will be little chance for reconciliation due to lack of NC, to love of this job and how it makes her feel, the terrible friend/support network, etc. Unfortunately, I think my WW is very much like HopeThisWorks and is stubborn and prideful beyond belief. It will likely take her hitting rock bottom to see the damage she has done if she sees it then...I hope that I am wrong for all of our sake.

HP -
Suppose the roles were reversed? Would you like to know your wife was having an affair? - or another, and another, and another?

Help me remember - have you exposed to all other potentials exposure receivers? Do those folks she walked by in the gym know?

WAT

If you recall in another post my WW told me she wasn't seeing OM anymore. I asked my WW in that same conversation if OM told her that he and I talked and I could tell by her reaction that he had not. This told me that he did not want to be exposed and likely told my WW to cool it (she was acting out withdrawal to some degree the past couple of weeks). I have exposed to our Sunday school class, close friends and pastor and most people at church either know or will soon. She has not been back to church since I confronted her about the A (Jan 4th, '06).

I feel mixed emotions about contacting OMW. One minute I feel overwhelming guilt about not letting OMW know just because it may benefit me by having OM turn on my WW, write her off, make her feel used at the threat of being exposed.
The next minute I feel as if she will never change her stance, A or no ongoing A as long as she is in contact with OM (albeit just a night here or there at work) at the place the A took place, with the support/"friend" network of white trash she is now running with, and so on. This makes me want to give her an ultimatum to quit and come home and work on our M and help take care of our kids or suffer the consequences (i.e. - OMW notification,work (HR director) letter since A happened on company time and property, etc.)

Then I wonder if I should still plan A her and see where that goes. It's not like she will not be around me or is completely void of wanting to see me right now. I am so confused sometimes. Thank you WAt

If you don't do exposure properly, particularly to OMW, you won't have a hope or a prayer and neither will your marriage. It's your choice.

Whatever you do, don't do this.

No ultimatums until Plan B. Ultimatums are controlling.


i don't understand this. Do you feel guilt for NOT telling OMW because she has a right to know, or do you feel guilt that you would benefit by spilling the beans?


This is a fair assessment. As long as she is pining for OM or holds out hopes that he will come back to her, she's NOT yours.

WAT

I think I have to expose properly and I think it means letting OMW know regardless of the current state of the A between my WW and OM. And, I think I should probably contact the hospital with the letter I wrote.

What do you think about contacting the hospital? The A took place on company property and company time. This coupled with telling OMW will blow the lid off the entire situation I would imagine. Your input please.

Hope, I don't know why you haven't exposed to everyone who can put pressure on this affair. You don't know it's over. Actually, for all you know, it may just have gone deep underground. Expose to the OMW, and to the HR Director at the workplace as soon as you can and ride out the completely predictable storm of anger from your wife so you can get on with your plan. A strict NC must be imposed, which may require your wife to quit that unnecessary job. Don't you understand? It’s only after exposure that Plan A can actually begin to work.

Friend, you cannot afford to make threats to expose. For one thing, they are LBs, and you need to be above that. Second, that’s not the way you handle exposure. Exposure is the process by which you break up the affair. It’s a tool, not a threat, and it’s one you use without telling your spouse about it first. You do not threaten…you just DO it.

The words you are using tell me you have a pretty darn good idea they are still in contact. Trust those instincts. Quit dithering around, pick up the phone and call the OMW so that woman can take steps to get her marriage back on course while you do the same in yours. You are selfishly keeping vital information from her.

Once you’ve done that, call the HR Director at the hospital and let that individual know what is going on. Follow up on the phone call with a letter that you cc to your attorney. Let your lawyer know what is happening so he can assist you with getting a prompt reply from the appropriate level at the hospital. Any fallout from revealing what is going on in that hospital is not your fault; it is a consequence of conspiring to commit adultery.

When you've exposed to OMW and to the workplace, expose to your family and to your wife's. Don't "spare" the children. That's straight from Dr. Harley. If you want, I'll get you the quote. Finish up with anyone...anyone...who can put pressure on the two adulterers. Do a good job of exposure and you've done what you can to bust up the affair.

Mister, you've been in limbo and flailing around without a solid plan for recovery long enough. Take back control of your life and get to work on saving your marriage.

Okay, no ultimatums in Plan A

I feel guilty for both reasons. I feel guilty not telling her because she has a right to know and I feel guilty that by not telling her that I may actually find some benefit to my M.

Lastly, I almost view the "job" as an A. If the OM died tomorrow or moved away. I think that my next hurdle to us saving our M and her once again becoming the woman I knew an loved is that darn job. It offers escape from responsibility, a fulfillment at helping people in life and death situations, comradaire (spelling), common interests, nights away from home, avenues for meeting most or all needs either at work or with friends away from work. The job is almost like a second A partner whether OM is there or A is ongoing or not.

Longhorn

Thank you for your straight forwardness. I need to hear that. I need to know that I can't trust my natural instincts at a time like this. What seems logical and natural is of no use right now. I am going to call my attorney tomorrow and tell him of my desired intentions. He has already read the letter to the hospital and says "legally" its okay. I tried to contact the OMW a weekend or two back but reached no one. I dropped it after hearing about WW not knowing about my speaking with OM and upon some information (not great info) that the A had cooled. But, I worry that the maximum effect of exposure is starting to lose momentum the more I wait. I have exposed to WW, OM, WW family, my family, Sunday School Class, and other close mutual friends. The two biggest opportunities remain the OMW and Hospital. I feel as if this is something I have to do this week.

Excellent. You're right, the best effect of exposure would have been to expose to everyone all at once, but it's not too late. What you are doing will still be highly effective for you and for the poor woman who is being deceived by her husband. You should feel good about what you're doing. I fully believe doing something to solve a problem is a lot healthier than sitting back and hoping the problem solves itself.

Once you've got the exposure done, your wife is going to be pissed and you need to expect it, be ready for it, and know that every word she says is from a script all wayward spouses seem to read from. She'll say something to the effect that she was going to work on the marriage, but now she won't do anything. There'll probably be something about you having betrayed her...how COULD you do this to her. She loves you but she isn't "in love" with you, etc., etc., etc. You are breaking up a warm, fuzzy little fantasy world and she's going to be madder than you've ever seen her. Let it all roll off you like water off a duck's back. It's all foggy babble.

If I could make a further suggestion, now's a good time to review your Plan A, decide on your boundaries (not forgetting a NC letter), and determine how long you will do Plan A. Read Dr. Willard Harley's Surviving An Affair also. It's the basis for everything here at MB. Finally, Pepperband's list of "carrots and sticks" of Plan A is something you need to read.

My best wishes go with you in the recovery of your marriage. Hang in there. The roller coaster ride is about to start.

I have a feeling that after you do this exposure things will turn for the worse which is a good thing. Pain has a way of effecting change. Just when you finally regret doing this exposure and it seems you've made a fatal mistake BOOM you take a giant leap forward.

In conclusion, trust the MB Plan. It's not full proof and their are no guarantees but it is the best known path to marital recovery and you are far better following the plan than going solo.

Good luck,

Mr. Wondering

p.s.- you've got mail. I sent you a gift earlier today. It's in your inbox.

Hi hopeandpray, I have been reading your thread and you have recieved some SUPERB advice from the very best. Your very best chance at saving your marriage comes from exposure to the OMW and HR. Your marriage will never recover if your W continues to work with the OM. NEVER. She will never withdraw from him. That is about like expecting an alcoholic to recover by going to the bar and drinking every day. It ain't going to happen.

Secondly, if you expose at work she is more likely to quit her job.

To not do these exposures is to contribute to your own demise. Really. These folks who are posting to you are tried and true pros who know what they are talking about. Please listen to them for your own sake and the sake of your kids!

Good luck hopeandpray.

Thank you all so much. I have another session (3rd or 4th) with Steve this morning at 10:30 AM and have sent him an email detailing my thread so as to catch him up.

Spoke to WW last night as she called from hospital to check on "us" (likely to check on kids and to subdue her guilt). The conversation was cordial and uneventful. Also, had a short similar conversation this morning with her. As long as the talk isn't about the relationship or our future or lack thereof together the conversations seem to go okay. I am more than ever convinced that true reflection and healing can only take place when there is no contact. And, as best I can tell the only way to accomplish that for sure is to EXPOSE to OMW and to hospital HR and others in order to hopefully put a stop to anything that may still be going on in any way, shape or form. Hopefully a byproduct will be the need for her to find other employment one way or the other. This will set off a nuclear explosion inside her that I will be sure to get the brunt of. But, like someone said your M may be able to survive anger but it cannot survice an ongoing A or contact or fantasy land in any state.

I look forward to speaking with Steve today and getting his thoughts. Wish me luck. I will advise as to our discussion once our session ends.

Thanks to all of you again for your concern and superb advice.