Hey there girlie.

I am sorry that your initial visit to the board has been hard on you.

pretty much every FWW that is on here knows what you are talking about as we all got the 2x4's when we first started coming.

The thing is - you don't see it now - but the 2x4's that hurt - only hurt becuse there is truth to what they are saying. But I don't expect you to see it now.

Like me, like FF, like FL, like Mrs. Wondering - it takes time...Smart Cookie is on the journey - too - how she has changed since she first came.

The feelings you are feeling are so normal for a FWW...the sleeplessness, the thinking of OM, the not eating, the sic to the stomach...I think sometimes FWW's are harder on themselves than FWH's are...something about women and self punishing?

I also know you posted first over at in recovery - where alot of us FWW's aren't usually - we like to be over here helping new FWW's who come into the forums...so alot of us probably missed your posts until Ahuman pointed out - so you only got BS's posting to you.

How is your husband in all of this? Is he showing you love - are you guys comforting eachother? That really helps sometimes.

I know you said your H doesn't really know the full extent of your affair and so is unwilling to move. Have you reconsidered telling him the truth? Let me tell you something - I didn't tell my husband the whole truth in the beginning...it was a month or so after. But it was hindering recovery as he ALWAYS felt something was missing - but couldn't put his finger on it - and so he had trouble moving forward...not only that - but the guilt of that secret was eating me away.

I read the posts about controlling behavior to you. It's something I had to face in my recovery - I never realized HOW controlling and manipulative I was - after all - I people pleased, did EVERYTHING for my husband - was taken advantage of...but it was part of a co-dependency problem I had where belive it or not - I did control my side of things, the story, etc...

You may not be like this - but I think some of the BS's are just pointing out things that ALOT of us FWW's have in common. The hardest part of recovery is facing those hurtful things...none of us want to do it and many of us FWW's still struggle with it.

Have you been to our thread here on GQ11? many of us are further ahead than you - but still feel alot of what you are feeling, albeit many of the things you are feeling now we have dealt with.

Have you talked to Smart Cookie? She also has very similar feelings as yours - she came to this board ADAMENT she would never tell her husband the truth...she finally did. Perhaps you can hear her pros and cons?

Mrs Wondering even got 2x4's from ME when she first came as what she felt was closure with her husbands support - was blatent disrespect for her husband and she was VERY angry with me and hurt - that I didn't understand her...that this was not the way she would reccomend but what was WORKING for her. After a bit she realized how wrong she actually was. Those 2x4's people are giving you - aren't just for fun - to bash you for who you are...

Hang in there NEwstart and don't disappear on us - there are so many of us FWW's here who KNOW how you are feeling - and you can get it all out - look for advice...if you can't handle the BS's posts for now - then skip them - but know that many of us FWW's may post the same advice to you - only out of being in the same place as you...as much as you feel alone and that your sitch is unique...sadly it's not.

And lastly - remember that you are NOT defined by your past - but who you are today and tomorrow. If you want to be the woman i KNOW you want to be - honesty and itegrity is a great place to start. Telling him will be hard and will hurt - but what a great way to rebuild who YOU are. You are NOT your affair...but you are also not the woman you deserve to be right now either. Use this exeperience to grow and change - it wont be easy....

((((HUGS)))))

Well said dorry!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Newstart, we are glad that you are here. I know that it's rough, and can even feel brutal at times, but we'll be here to help you sort out things...try to be open about looking at your situation from different perspectives if you can...we(FWW's) will be as gentle with you as possible...

Mrs. Wondering

Hi Newstart10, we are here to help you through this.

dorry & MrsWondering,

You two gals are utterly amazing in the conveyance of your emotions and actions as a WW. My hat is off to you two as well as the rest of the FWW's in these forums. I look to you as a source of validity re: MB principles but also with a degree of sadness that your wisdom and honesty can't be bottled up and surreptiously fed to ALL the WS's out there.

Well thanks - but it took 13 months so far to get to this point...and alot of hard work...13 months ago - I sounded just like any other WS - full of justifications, blame, entitlement and lots more. We weren't any different than any other WS out there...that's the hardest pill to swallow...

Stick around

BTW - there is a feature here you may not be aware of.

If you receive posts from someone you do not care to hear from again you can click on their name and then click on "ignore this poster". Until you withdraw them from you "ignore" file on your "my home" page you will no longer see that posters posts.

Good way to duck any 2 x 4's you just aren't ready for.

A schwing and a miss -- strike 3.

Mr. Wondering

Wow, Cymanca...

What wonderful praise, thank you...but as dorry said, I was the same as all the rest, it has taken God, the wonderful people here at MBs and of course the amazing grace of my husband to get me to the point that I am at today...I am, however, still learning and forever will be...thank you again for your kind words, it is folks like you that make this place what it truly is...a Godsend!
<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
Mrs. Wondering

Thank you all SO MUCH for posting and giving some support. It really means a lot to me that you bothered... I was truly on the verge of getting out of here, and felt pretty much like I was on a backwards slide in my recovery as well. I'm new to this board and hadn't even been to GQII until Dorry and some others pointed it out, so I haven't had a chance to read much (work full time, 2 kids 8 & 11). I don't really know how things are going so far. I thought we were both doing better, but today has been a bad day. H never wants to talk about IT or our marital problems (ever), but I coerced him into taking the EN survey (maybe I really am controlling <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> ) and tonight, pretty much against his will, got him to sit down and discuss it. I was hopeful that this would be helpful and give us a new direction to work towards and focus our energy on, but it didn't really go very well. This may sound strange, but he seemed to disagree with my EN! He couldn't understand that I need more intimate, attentive conversation without distractions once a day. Just a time to unwind and talk... he thinks we don't need to put life on hold for that, and that we can talk while making the kids' lunches, making supper or doing the dishes. He was a little heated on this topic! Also, I said that I have a fairly strong need for admiration (I know... vanity...). He pretty much never gives compliments, even when he knows that I've tried hard to look nice. He said that I always ask before he gets a chance, and that if I waited he'd say something. Not exactly blowing him off his feet with my beauty, I guess!! I tried to point out that saying I look "o.k." or "fine" is not really much of a compliment, but that didn't go over well either. Has anyone else had this happen? I tried not to be acusing or critical and to just state it as a need, but somehow he seemed to take it all as an attack. He was not overly forthcoming about his own needs, either. Then the talk went back to the summer and the A, which wasn't a great way to end the conversation. I'm depressed and feel that we've gone a giant step backwards. I asked him if he'd reconsider counciling, but he was not very enthusiastic and said he didn't know. I'm very lonely right now... not a good feeling. Cheer me up - please!

Newstart:

First let me welcome you to the board. I am a BS but try not to be judgemental. I often post to FWW from the perspective of the BS and the importance of radical honesty in a marriage. I tend to be long winded too but right now have an important meeting in the morning so can't share a lot of my experiences with you. However, I think that if you look up the posts from SmartCookie and my responses to her early on (prior to disclosure of the A with her husband) and then review her post called something like I told... you will find that my message from experience will always be for the FWW to come completely clean with the BS and for MC to be a instrumental part of the recovery process. Many of us think we can do this alone...I will tell you as will others that this will be the most difficult but possibly the most rewarding thing you have ever done.

A marriage can survive an affair. It cannot survive dishonesty...period. Dishonesty is the cancer that kills the love in a relationship and builds a wall that does not permit true intimacy.

You made a terrible choice. One that you regret and feel shameful for. You can be forgiven for that choice and your marriage does have the potential to be better than your ever imagined prior to the A...but you have to come clean, accept the responsibility for your actions and understand that your actions may lead to the dissolution of your marriage.

Your H did not have a choice in you being involved in an A. You and you alone made that choice. As a BS, he has the choice to continue in the M and rebuild or to find his happiness elsewhere after a D. Sorry if that is a 2x4 but it is just the way it is.

My FWW kept her ugly secret for more than 10 years. When I found out, the ten years had been a cycle of destructive behavior on both our sides that largely started due to her having to compartmentalize her secret and as I got too close she manipulated me with a number of different tactics to draw me away from the truth. I retaliated with my own sort of emotional abuse and gradually withdrew more and more from the M. Our D-day came only when I had finally decided it was time to s*hit or get off the pot. I could take no more, niether could she. Finally, when given the choice to get to the real fires in our relationship or go our seperate ways, she came clean.

Did it crush me when I found out? Absolutely, I still have a pain in my groin from the sucker punch. But not knowing was even worse. And worst of all was that after I had already decided to commit to trying to make the marriage work, I had to try and sort through what was the truth and what were lies over the last ten years. Finally, after all that I had to realize and accept the responsibility that I had in creating the environment that allowed my wife to seek to fill her needs outside the M. My memory is pretty good and my mind is sharper than most, but looking back I have no idea how I waded through all the crap to get to the point that a true recovery could start.

Do not leave this board regardless of how much it hurts to see what others say. Some times the truth hurts. Sometimes people just want to hurt others to cover their pain, but in the end you will find truly wonderful people from both sides of the aisle that can share their experiences with you to help you in the journey. Dorry, Mr and Mrs Wonderful, SmartCookie, Mortmarman, Alpheion were among the many that had an instrumental part in helping me get on track and make good decisions in the process.

You have made a good start. You are talking to your H about things that have to be discovered in a marriage. When you stated that he disagreed with your EN, I think you don't even realize how close you are to understanding this process and starting to build your marriage. He wasn't filling your EN. You got them filled elsewhere. I would put $5 to say that he thinks he is filling your EN. That is why RH is so vitally important. Once you both understand each others most important EN's, you will be able to fill that other persons needs so they don't even consider going elsewhere. You both may have to force it at first, but it becomes an avalanche process. The more you fill his EN, the easier it is to fill yours for him, and on and on.

Please, please...read SmartCookies first posts and the responses that she got about why it is important to come completely clean. The sooner the better. If he won't go to MC, you need to start IC soon and with the Harley's or a good pro-marriage counseler. They can guide you develop a plan for introducing the truth to your husband and working hard to be prepared for the rollercoaster that will follow. Good luck.

NT

One more thing Newstart....Making bad choices does not make you a bad person. You have the opportunity to live your namesake..a new start.

Newstart...

Please don't take this the wrong way...he doesn't see how dire these needs are for you...he doesn't get how much trouble your M is in...because he doesn't know the full extent of the A. I don't want to harp on you...but I KNOW that my h wouldn't have gotten just how bad things were if he didn't know everything.(I have the same EN's that you do...Conversation, Admiration, Affection) I'm not saying that I had the A because my needs weren't being met...that was my choice. But because my needs weren't being met(I wasn't meeting my H's needs either)it caused our relationship to be ripe for an A. Newstart, if he doesn't get how important these are for you, then you aren't protected from having another A...does that make sense? Did you know that someone only has to meet 4 of your ENs for romantic feelings to attach? In A's, which are fantasyland, that is easy to do...all it will take is someone who is a friend or aquaintance to start being friendly...just as before, you won't intend to have an A, you'll never see it coming...the feelings will just attach...Your H needs to be the one to meet your needs, and you need to meet his...He needs to want to meet those needs...He needs to know how serious this is to do that...Your happiness and his rely on this...

I'm trying to be gentle...I know that you've gotten very upset about people telling you to tell, but it really is the best way...for you both...you deserve to have your needs met...he deserves to have his needs met...can you kinda see how this is true? It will be very tough on you both, but in the long run it IS so much more fulfilling a marriage when all the cards are on the table. It's a very secure feeling when someone knows all there is to know about you and loves you...truly loves you...the vanity issues are no longer as important(there still there, but less)...Your H becomes your best friend, and you become his...the soft place for each of you to fall...

I was watching the Oprah 20th Anniversary DVDs today, and she said something that I really liked...She said something like...when you are in the deepest distress of your life, that you should stop and say a prayer of thanks. Because you know that once you get past this, you will have learned something deeper about yourself and the joy on the other side of your troubles is sweeter than any you have known before...I believe that that's true...it has been for me...I want that for you...you and your husband deserve that...

Best,


Mrs. Wondering

P.S. nottoday, I love it when people make the typo that you made in your above post...Mr. & Mrs. Wonderful...Aww...Shucks, nottoday, we really are just "wondering", but it's nice to hear otherwise!...LOL... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />Seriously though, thanks for the shout out... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

You may be wondering to some but to me you are both WONDERFUL . Your husband changed my perspective and my life forever and I owe him dearly. Good thing he is not a practicing attorney, I wouldn't be able to pay his hourly rate. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> I still have his email that he sent to me early on and when I am down or have a question I refer to it. I have renamed it "Mr. Wonderful's Synopsis of Perspective and Survival." I am going to keep it forever and when you both are gone I may publish it posthumously to compete with Dr. Harley's HNHN or I may just rename it Recovery 101 for Dummies and keep it in my private collection.

Great job Dorry!

Hi Newstart--glad to see you made it over here.



BSs are in a lot of pain! Sometimes that is expressed in tears and shouts, sometimes withdrawl. I know that my BS didn't WANT to meet my needs, because he was hurt and angry and frankly, I didn't blame him. I understood that he was giving in the beginning just by staying after I had totally destroyed my M vows!!

As to your BS, did he identify his ENs? What worked for me, was to simply express what my ENs were--then leave it be--and focus on just meeting his ENs....with time amazing things can happen (inside you and from him!)

My only response...a John Denver song adaptation:

"Sunshine....up my heiney...makes me happy" <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />

Nottoday....gotta love this guy - check's in the mail.

Mr. Wondering

p.s.- Newstart10...see why this is such a great place...you have the opportunity to supplement your emotional need for admiration...in spades.

Newstart...how are things going today?

Mrs. Wondering

Hi Newstart,
I'm so glad you're still here. I'm really busy today, trying to clean the house for company coming this weekend, and I've already spent way more time than I should have on the computer. But I just wanted to jump in and let you know you have another supporter here.

I read just the first couple of your posts on the recovery board to get an idea of your situation. And I have to tell you, it's amazing to me that you're still hanging in there.
Seriously. I can't imagine a more difficult or anxiety-provoking situation.

I don't know whether I can be of much help to you, but I'd sure like the opportunity to try. Howevwer -- that means you have to stick around at least until the early part of next week when I'll have time to fully read about your situation and write you a proper post. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />

Big hugs,

--SC

Newstart,

Let these wonderful ladies guide you OK? I have a few comments for you and then I will leave this thread because I know you would rather and need to hear from the ladies on this thread.

OK hold your breath, this won't hurt...much. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />

You said
Have you ever asked him why he does NOT want to talk about IT? You should consider it. I think you implied that you live in a different country, so I suspect that there are some differences in child rearing in your country and differences in what constitues "manly" behavior. So please excuse a few assumptions that might not be on OK?

First, I am sensing that your H does NOT like to talk about emotions and surely NOT his feelings. I would also guess that he does NOT like to show pain if he is hurt, especially deeply hurt. Third, I would guess that in his upbringing, he was taught how a MAN should act, and what he should or should NOT accept from a W. I am betting there is little tolerance for infidelity and he would be thought of poorly if he accepted it in his W.

So if my assumptions are at least close, let's look at what you are asking of him. As stated in the previous quote you forced him to do the EN questionaire, I'll bet that pained him. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> And next...



Since he was taught to NOT have emotional needs, yup most of us guys were. You must understand REAL men don't have needs. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> We also don't have feelings. But, we do have egos, which if closely examined would sound suspiciously like YOUR needs. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />


I'll bet he was. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> Consider what I assumed about him, and think how comfortable he would be engaging in one on one "emotional" discussions with you. He is NOT dumb, he KNOWs this would have to be two way and you would expect him to open up to you. Further, if was reared anyway like I am assuming, then he has NO clue as to what you mean by "intimate, attentive conversation without distractions". But whatever you mean he doesn't see the need for it as he has been trained to NOT need it.


First as you might be gathering his response is not about your beauty. I am betting his parents reared in such a way that he was NOT SPOILED or thought too much of himself. Not a lot of compliments, so he figures they aren't that important. I am also betting that he "admires" you a lot more than you think, let's see how does a married man, who was not a "ladies man" express these things? The answer...by supporting his family, sex, and being there for her. So to put it mildly he has a limited vocabulary with regard to what you need. Is this bad? Not really.


Yup, you are telling him he has failed, and worse he KNOWS he has failed because you had an affair. He does not know the full details of it, but he knows enough and probably suspects more strongly than you realize that there was more. So you ARE attacking him, in his mind. You are telling him he has failed.

Of course not, real men don't have needs. Duh! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> Real men do have desires though, egos, but "needs" Yuck. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />



Of course counseling doesn't sound like much fun. What is the first thing he thinks the counselor is going to ask him?

"Well Mr. Newstart, tell what you "felt" when you learned of her affair?" Or perhaps the ever popular "Well, Mr. Newstart, how are you "feeling" to day?" Or "Well, Mr. Newstart how do you "feel" about your marrige?"

Hopefully a counselor would be skilled enough to know those questions might well set your H off, and have him withdraw, but your H sure doesn't view this as something he wants to do, I suspect he would rather go to the dentist.

So what is the point of all I have mentioned? As you listen to these fine ladies, consider that you need to translate what they are telling you into a language that your H understands and is comfortable with. The problem you are having is you are speaking an "emotional" language and he has been taught to speak an entirely different language...guy speak for short. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Now in my mind you can get through to him, and you can establish contact, and yes you can have intimacy, but is going to take you realizing a few things. One is that you don't really have a clue how badly he is hurt. Two, you have not realized that the man may really truely, and deeply love you and I am betting this is the case. Three, you have expected him to respond and "feel" like you do without realizing he does not. Four, because you failed at three, you have not realized that his way of showing love and devotion is probably through actions, bringing home the pay check, and yes sex.

Once in my travels I had time to go to a book store and I was wondering around and found a book called something like "Men made easy" sort of a take off on the "computers for dummies" sort of thing. It was written by a lady whose name I believe is Carol Oh. Anyway it was actually pretty interesting and I read it in about an hour. It was sort of a 12 step approach toward men told in a fairy tail format. One of suggestions is that when you are talking to most men about emotions you need to realize that emotions are NOT something men talk about, so they do NOT have the speech patterns and vocabulary readily at hand to express their emotions. Women on the other hand discuss emotions constantly with one another and thus have these patterns.

So her observation and it is certainly backed up by what I have seen in over 7 years of reading here, is that when women as a man a questions that requires expressing their feelings or emotions, they usually just stare at the woman. Since, they stare the woman assumes the guy hasn't a clue, and then either offers further guidance or asked yet another question, which further befuddles the guy. Her suggestion was to ask the first question and sit quietly and patiently for him to form the words and phrases he needs to express what he feels. It may take a moment, or even 10 moments, but just sit there and wait. It will seem like hours to you, becuase to you these are not trick questions, and often you have answered them before. To him they seem like trick questions and it even takes awhile to realize that they might not be.

As you do this, he will become more comfortable with discussing these things. But, you MUST understand the filter through which he hears your every statement and question. If you do not, you are unlikely to be able to communicate well with him nor he with you.

Ok, enough, I will return you to these fine ladies here. I must tell you they are some of my favorite posters and have helped more people than they realize. I suspect in the long term you will be just as big an asset on this site as they are.

God Bless,

JL

Hi JL,
In some ways you're right about my H, but mostly not. His parents are quite open people, and his father is very attentive and complimentary with both his mother and H and his sister. It doesn't seem to be as much a manly thing as a personality thing. H is not a good communicator, and would rather watch t.v. than chat with me (or anyone else). He doesn't have a lot of close friends and doesn't really have a best friend because he doesn't put any effort into maintaining relationships with other men, either. I'm not asking for intimate, emotional conversations. Just "How was your day? What happened today? Who did you run into?" etc. Even that he doesn't want to make time for. I think you have him pegged as a real manly man, and he's not really like that (not a flowery fella, but not a he-man, either). He's never wanted to discuss our relationship, even before the A. I did try to talk to him many times over the past 12 years about what I see as missinsg in our relationship (even wrote him the odd letter when I was really frustrated), but he has never made any effort. Last night (as I mentioned, it wasn't a good one) I tried to get him to open up about how he was feeling about it, and he said that this had been a bad week, and he was thinking a lot about the summer and A again. I can relate to that; I have trouble with good and bad days/weeks as well. He said that he doesn't like to talk about it because it makes him think too much about it, and he just wants to forget about it and get past it. He is definitely uncomfortable talking about his feelings, and doesn't really want to hear mine, either. He has never asked much about the A and certainly hasn't pried or quizzed me on details. He doesn't seem to want to concede that I actually HAVE emotional needs, and the trouble to fulfill them seems too much bother. Some of his arguments were ridiculous. As I mentioned, he said that he would compliment me if I gave him time, and that I always ask before he gets a chance. That's nonsense. I've waited the entire night, and still got nothing. What's so hard about making your wife feel good, especially when it's such a little thing that means so much? He actually ranked Admiration as a high need for himself! I'm really struggling again. When I had hoped that we were moving forward, we've hit a road block. The frustrating part is that, although I know that you think he doesn't appreciate the gravity of the situation, I think he does. I told him that I was deeply unhappy with our marriage and was thinking of leaving. When I told him of the EA and kissing, I talked then of what was missing between us (although I hadn't been on this site yet) and made it very clear that I wasn't going to live this way (as room mates) forever. I told him that I wanted much more out of my life partner. When I was still in the early part of this and didn't really know if I wanted it to work out, when he would get angry or we'd argue I'd tell him to just leave if he wanted out (I'm way past that and don't feel that way at all now). I guess what I'm seeing is that he wants to get past this by forgetting about it and pretending it didn't happen, without actually having to put any work or effort into it, even if it's uncomfortable or hard work. I, on the other hand, still have the same unhappiness with our relationship that I did before, although I have a renewed commitment to work on it. What do we do next? How do I get more effort out of him?

Hi Smartcookie,
I've had several people refer me to your story, but have no idea where to find it. I'm a little overwhelmed with all the links and threads... I can't keep up! I'm particularly interested in that your timeline is similar to mine. Can you let me know where your thread is?

Newstart - my husband is alot like yours in many aspects.

Here are the mistakes I made over the 7 years leading up to my A.

I too tried to talk to him many times - and he ignored me each and everytime or said yah - but never really listened - built up my resentment and frustration. Before my A and for awhile after - I figured this was his problem. Soon I realized - this may be MY problem. How have you approached your husband over the years - I always thought I was doing it right - I feel - this makes me feel...but in actuality when I really thought about it - I was coming up to him saying - You don't make me feel, I feel horrible because of this that you did - you know what happened each and everytime - his WALL went up and he never heard me - he retreated and I was even more miserable.

My husband has not really changed since my A...but you know what has changed - he listens to me now - you know why _ I dont EVER describe things to him in terms of what he can do - and what he has done wrong, or how I feel in regards to something he has done. I have PERSONALLY figured out how to talk to him in a new way. I really have to think about what I am going to say and NOT respond when he gets defensive...as I usually fight him back and then we get no where. It has take PRACTICE - 10 months of practice so far. I fail on days - and those days we get nothing accomplished - but on the days where i can pull it together - things get ACCOMPLISHED - and not because I demanded HE change.

Another mistake - I spent 7 years trying to get him do things - and I would nag, remind, find creative ways to convince - I never realized that to him these were CRITIZING who he is...mothering and babying him. So when he then became distant and didn't want to talk to me - it was his way of dealing with his HURT ego from ME!!!! You see? Some of his attitude may very well be in how YOU are dealing with him.

I know it's hard for you to see now - but you cannot CHANGE him, nor can you hound him to change, or nag him - especially since your affair - he wants to know desperately that you love HIM for HIM - even if he never changed - can you love HIM.

I am sorry but I have a hard time believing all 12years have been miserable - why? cause I was convinced all my 7 years were, many others were convnced theirs were too - but it was the affair state of mind we were in. You will see - there are THINGS that were good - you married him for a reason.

My H does not believe in MB or needs - and so I do this on my own - in the beginning he was gungho on it - but not anymore. But because I have changed - because I am CONSTANTLY changing how I interact with him - I get more affection from him, I get more compliments. But if I regress and have a bad day - immediately things are distant...

Of course sometimes he is just dealing with other stresses - like last month, and he is completely distant and I am miserable...but I keep it about him - what I can do for him, careful how I talk to him...and when he is through whatever he didn't want to talk about - he truly appreciates me. The old me would have demaded he not treat me that way - tell him I was miserable - tell him how to cheer up - instead of accepting he IS who he IS - and it's his way of dealing with it.

It's only been 4 months and I bet your husband suspects it was more than kissing - I suspect alot of your H not want to meet your needs or talk, etc has to do more with what you have done to him - he is devestated and trying to cope and deal...and wants to do it his own way. Right now he is angry, depressed and doesn't know what to with himself

He also probably feels like a failure and feels - why bother changing - i suck...I failed as a husband so my wife had an affair...and she keeps telling me what I am doing wrong now - so once again I am a failure - I just wont be good enough.

have you told him what he IS doing right? Have you tried to tell him what you DO love about him - has their been anything positive in awhile?

It may not work at first - and it's a sacrifice for you to lead...but I bet if you lead long enough your husband would start to respond and it would even seem as if he is changing...

But in order for ANY of this to work - you MUST tell him the truth - I garuntee he is feeling there is something more - his gut is telling him something is not right and he probably feels CRAZY right now and he wants to feel sane - and you hold the key....