I have to agree with Dorry's post. I believe that we are simply helping Newstart to move toward her own emotional health at this point. I honestly believe she'll need it if her H finds out about this down the road because he'll very likely leave her in SPITE of how amazing the marriage is. Heck, my marriage recovery has been incredible and about 1 1/2 years into it my H admitted that the OW contacted him about 4 months into recovery (for a job...B!TCH). Here's what he did:


*Set perfect boundaries with her.

*Told her he did NOT love her and that he had only ever loved ME!

*Told her that if she sought employment there he'd quit.

*Was quite rude to her sending a clear message that he wanted nothing to do with her.

THE ONLY THING HE DID WRONG WAS THAT HE DIDN'T TELL ME!

Why was that such a problem? Because I'd directly asked him if she had contacted him at ANY time many times during recovery. I was sure she had and he said no. THAT ability to LIE to my face terrified me! The fact that he had watched me go through agony when I said that I wished she could know that he didn't love her and then finding out that he DID know. He could have saved me from MONTHS of pain and he didn't do that. Plus the lying factor. It was almost a dealbreaker for me and we were in a PERFECT recovery...the honeymoon period never even ended. THAT is how important the honesty was to me.

Oh...and I'm a Leo and fiercely loyal! However, I'm actually fairly introverted! No table tops needed for me! I DO enjoy a good party though and I love to play poker!

Stillwed

Hi everyone. You have all helped me tremendously in the past few weeks, and I truly feel that my marriage has improved. Unbelievable but true, it is in many ways better than it was before the A. I'm not sure what to say next or how to say it, although I've been thinking about it for hours now. I guess first of all I've misunderstood what I should be doing to improve things. It seemed that everyone who posted was saying that I had to work on myself and look at what I had done to cause the A and the marital problems. I understood that it was vital for our recovery for me to look at my way of relating to my H, reacting to him, responding to him, and understanding him, and that without this understanding we couldn't get better. Stillwed said, "I believe that we are simply helping Newstart to move toward her own emotional health at this point." I wish it were really so simple! In fact, this has been very difficult. I guess I was wrong in thinking that this was an important part of the process. If you all truly believe that the only way I can save my marriage is to tell my H all the details, and that if I don't you will be compromising your integrity to continue to give advice, then it is with sadness and regret that I say good bye. I value all that you've told me, and you have really saved us in many respects. I was halfway out the door when I came here, and am now determined to stay for the long haul. I wish you could open your minds to the possiblity that you may not be right in every case. I'm not closed to what you are saying, but only I know my situation, my H, and my life. As much as I wish I could continue to benefit from your experience and insight, you have essentially issued an ultimatum, and I believe that to do as you say will ruin many lives, and that the scars on our marriage would never heal. You clearly disagree, but again, you don't know my H, me, or our situation. Please don't call me selfish or controlling any more. Maybe I am, but I'm doing the best I can in the best way I know how. I keep hearing "what if in 10 years he finds out..." How about this one: What if I tell him and he walks out the door and never comes back. What if he stays, but it changes our relationship for the worse forever. What if he tells OMW and she leaves him? What ifs can go on forever. There is much at risk whatever path I take, so I have to do what I think is best. Anyhow, enough said.
Thanks again,
NS

Dont leave - it's only me who wont help -many others will

The what if's - you made the choice to have an affair...he has the choice to walk out - you aren't giving him that choice. You aren't really fixing REAL problems either - you are covering up old ones with new solutions...it will work for a time...

you stand a better chance telling him now. I am open ALWAYS to the posibility there are other ways - that I may not be right - I even dont fully believe in Radical honest...I think some little things DO need to be kept to yourself - but this ISN"T a little thing. There is risk for EVERY choice...but you are taking the one that comforts YOU the best - and shelters your husband - instead of giving HIM the chance to decide if he wants to REALLY change and work at it or not....

You should stay though - as many can help you on your personal path and maritial path - it's only me who wont be able to...I have been both the BS and the WS...I would hate to find out there is MORE secrets after all we have been through - I KNOW my husband would - we wouldn't make it if there were more BIG secrets that are revealed later....I think in the majority of cases on MB - most will agree with me there...

newstart...

What if the folks here are right because they have been here and seen your situation repeated time and time again?

Reading your post reminds me of the quote that is in Lemonman's signature line..."Some people just don't get it, they don't get it that they don't get it"...

So many people have used Marriage Builders Principles to save their marriages, the numbers are staggering to be sure...Good luck with your way...incidently, just how many marriages has your way ever saved?


Mrs. W

Newstart,

When I said I agreed with Dorry's post, I didn't mean that I would not keep posting to you. I also didn't mean that personal work wouldn't have value for you if you decide not to tell your H. I simply shared what happened to me personally and what I project might happen if your H finds out down the road. The damage is done to your marriage already...whether you tell it or not....it's still there.

My H almost lost me because of the lie about contact. I was devastated...put back to day one for about a week. There is a thread over on "In Recovery" by JazzeyGirl. She just found out today that her H's affair WAS physical and she's ready to call it quits because he waited so long to tell her.

This concept is an opinion, but it's based on some very real experiences. BSs don't like to be lied to and you can't build genuine, deep intimacy on lies. We didn't make that up, so quit blaming us for it!

You sound like a little kid saying that if we don't say what you want us to say then you are going to take your toys and go home. I know that isn't what you really mean, but it does come across that way.

You don't have to agree with every word here in order to grow. I certainly have grown from listening and considering some different opinions other than mine.

Take care. I really do hope you'll stick around!

Stillwed

Newstart, I, too, would be sorry to see you go. No one will keep hounding you and if we're helping and providing friendship and somewhere you CAN talk about this I think it would be nice if you stayed.

I agree completely with Dorry. The "outside" way of seeing things is so often not the reality of what happens. And we have the "reality" here on this board. My H told OMW's and, yes, the thought crossed both our minds she may leave him - but, as shown on here thousands of times, of course she didn't.

Anyway, I won't ever mention it again. (You can forgive me one last try, I'm sure).

Please stick around. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I believe that you're only looking out for yourself which tells me that you haven't probably changed as much as you think you have. We've seen it a hundred times - we'll see it again whether you stay or go. It would be nice if you stayed but you're gonna have to own the entirety of this situation either way. Regargless whether you make a selfless decision or a purely selfish decision.

It's too bad that your husband isn't going to have the opportunities that he deserves but I expect someday he'll figure out you brought a cancer into your marriage and hid it. Woe to those who hide such things. I doubt he'll have much understanding at that point.

Good luck.

Yep, that's me. Just a selfish kid taking away her toys and developing into a big cancer. I can handle constructive criticism, but remember that I'm a person with feelings, not just a name on your screen. You may not agree with me, but that shouldn't give you the right to be insulting and derogatory. I've tried hard to be polite in all my responses, but am certainly not getting that in response. Flukeboy, I don't recall you ever giving me help or advice before, so I'm not sure what your post is about, unless lashing out at me makes you feel better (did I mention I'd rather not hear any more about me being selfish??!). And why bother signing off with "good luck" when you clearly don't mean it? I wanted advice, gratefully accepted it, and am using it. If I don't agree with you, you have the choice to not post or to politely disagree, but being hostile and rude is uncalled for. Jen, thanks for everything. Hope I'm not the one now being offensive (although I certainly feel defensive!). Maybe you're right and I'll regret this in the long run. Maybe I'm right, and I'd regret telling. Just a reminder - this whole telling vs. not telling debate was not started by me, and I've repeatedly said that I didn't want to discuss it further (yes, probably further proof of my selfish, controlling nature).

Well Newstart, I want you to stay.

Maybe, I'm being selfish. If I can't have an honest recovery of my own marriage. It gives me hope of a Newstart with another honest person.

Give your H some credit. I really, honestly, can imagine your terror in doing that, I mean coming clean on the issues. There are some things, (not affairs) that I wish I could have shared with my STBX. And I would have, as soon as I felt safe. Safety is a big issue for me, because she has the ability to be so cruel.

That is why I said to get some advice from a good counselor on how to do it, and to help him protect you also. Protection from our anger/pain is a gift we give our spouse.

Deciet is not a gift. It is self serving. You are protecting yourself from discomfort, not him.

Self preservation, self protection is a normal feeling, even a reflex.

However, knowing how you want to reclaim your marriage, would you rather have your H be honest with you in the same circumstance, or would you rather be played the fool and have the truth hidden from you.

Some people would rather be ignorant I suppose. But you dont strike me that way. You would want to know. And you would be right in wanting to know.

Seriously, I'm not saying to just blurt it out. But with preparation for both you and him, it would remove the infection in both of you. And allow healing.

I am a betrayed, decieved H. I would welcome the honesty, as painful as it would be in the short term.

I believe in you because you are here.

And look at me ... sometimes it is hard to take good advice.

"the truth hurts" is a true saying. But most everyone would choose that to the alternative.

I know the truth about my STBX. But she still lies. That is the most damaging part. I know more about her A than she admits, (and more about her OM than she really knows) but I can work through the Affair. It is her continued dishonesty that keeps me away.

I am really pulling for you and your H, and of course ultimately your M and family.

((((Newstart))))

Newstart,

I'm sorry that I hurt your feelings. One of my H's OW was a Seven. She was in for the good time, the good sex and that was about it. I'm not saying you are like that either, but in one way you are alike. She was terrified that someone she knew would found out what she'd done.

She even told my H it wasn't right that they were seeing each other, but it didn't stop her. She was in it for the sport (not saying you were). They even laughed at how incompatible they were (not saying you didn't love the fantasy of your OM). They were simply having a good time on one of his trips.

When my H told her that I knew (three years after the fact) the first thing she said was, "Does she know who I am?" She was very alarmed...but not for me...just for her. Regret? Yeah...probably. Guilt...not really. She just felt bad about getting caught. She was worried about exposure.

The important thing here is to examine your own motives. I believe that most of us think you are too foggy to do this on your own and so we are pointing out the usual path that these things take to you. I hope you'll continue to examine yourself and eventually come to your own conclusions. You can't change what you don't acknowledge.

I will acknowledge something that you have pointed out to me. Ones often don't realize that they come across harshly. Sometimes I say something that seems perfectly logical and friendly (to me) to another person and they are taken back by it. I GET THAT ABOUT MYSELF. Does that mean I never do it? No...because it's a part of my nature, but gradually I become more and more aware of how I come across. This thread is a good example of the fact that I can come across harshly. I have done that to you but it was not the basis of my intention.

So then I have to examine what I said and argue with it and make sure that it was really what I wanted to say. I have to think about the other person and their feelings and make a decision as to whether or not I feel I did the right thing. If I didn't, I need to apologize.

In this situation, here is what I came up with: I'm really sorry that my harsh words hurt you and I mean that. My reason for the harsh words are the same as those trying to get a kid to get out of the street so that they don't get run over by the semi approaching. That doesn't mean the kid will listen or even care. He may flip me off. He may not get hit at all! But it doesn't change how important I think it is for him to get out of the street. It feels urgent and I think that urgent comes across strongly. For that I'm sorry.

I am also an Intimate or Sexual One, meaning that I want to make a connection with individuals...not groups. That usually looks like intensity to the other person and many times the other person doesn't like it. If I've been too intense with you, for that I apologize. I hear that one from my H quite often and I GET that I do it.

The written word is very limited. If you were with me, I'd also hold your hand and hug you. You can't see that part in the written word, but it's there. I just think that you are a very sweet person who is just about to ruin their life. I guess I might need to apologize for answering your plea for help.

I can assure you that my MOTIVES are very good and pure. They are all about saving you from a great deal of pain. I do the same thing with my grown kids...once...then I let them live their life as they want to. They need to make their own mistakes and have their own consequences. It's not my job to live their lives and it's not my job to live yours, but I'd be a pretty poor example of a caring human being if I didn't at least point out the semi that was about to run over them....and you.


I think I'm asking you to base this decision on research, other opinions, and soul searching. Right now it's based on you being terrified of him walking out the door. I know that you HATE being called selfish. I think I'd hate it too, except that I KNOW I'm selfish! It doesn't mean I like to hear it from someone else!

Tonight I went out to hear my boys' band play and left my sick H at home. It was selfish. I wanted to go. He gave me his blessing to go, but it was still selfish to go. It sure wasn't selfless! It was a good decision based on many things...one being that H and I have had tons of quality time together lately. One being he's been not feeling well since Christmas and I needed the break. One being that I need to learn to pull away a bit sometimes so I have interesting things to talk about with my H and to avoid resentment. One being that it was a very safe environment...all of my kids were there. See what I mean? Selfish is not always a negative thing, but it is still labeled as selfish or as taking care of yourself. It's sometimes a good thing and sometimes not, but it's still selfish.

I really do wish you all of the best. I hope your marriage is wonderful. I hope you are right about not telling. Believe me...I don't WANT to be right on this. I want whatever you do to be right! I want it to WORK. My experience just tells me that there's a semi coming your way and I'll just leave it at that.


Still

Newstart,

Give me a break! You are going to let these comments push you away from a terrific resource on personal and marital healing! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Sometimes this stuff hurts--and you are doing right by saying so! Get it out there--say HEY GUYS THAT HURTS--but don't leave. In the end you are only hurting yourself and isolating yourself from a group of people who have experience in EXACTLY what you are facing!!

I hope you choose to stay and get to the bottom of what is going on!

Like, why does it hurt you so much if someone calls you selfish?

As a FWW, one of the first steps to healing is seeing yourself and admiting when you are acting selfish. I, aHuman, was selfish for SIX fricken' years (if you include the time I withheld the truth from my H). Come on, you can't beat that!!!

newstart...

I want to illustrate for you one of the reasons I find myself getting upset with you, in many ways, I was you...I see you swimming upstream here, and I understand it very well...why? Because I did it too...you and I did it on different issues, but they come from the same place. So I went back to my notorious ""head against a brickwall" post, and I'm posting it here so that you can see that I too thought I knew better than everyone else here...I was no different than you...I want you and I to be the same again...I finally got it, and I want you to get it too. You will cheat yourself if you don't. Dr. Harley explains that the road to recovery is a narrow one...it doesn't lend itself to modifications newstart...Do you want to be right, or do you want to be really happily married?


Below is a post that I wrote on 7/19/2005 trying to convince the vets here how that I was different, and that my renewed contact with OM had actually been good for me(Uh Huh, Right...) I can't tell you how ludacrous that sounds to me now...(man, it's embarassing to have people read what an idiot I was!!!) But here goes...




A couple of days later, on 7/22/05, I did manage to step down off of my high horse, and have a meal of what I like to refer to as, "Crow, the other white meat"...here is the resulting post...





newstart, I think that Dorry might have told you this already, but in case she didn't, I will...Dorry was one of the posters that drove me the most nuts...because she had my number and was reading me like a book...even between the lines...and she was calling me on it...man, I didn't like her one bit...she and I were joking about it just yesterday...today I am so proud and lucky to call her friend...without her, and many others, I would not be where I am today...in a happy and fulfilling marriage with the most wonderful man I've ever met...I owe this place a lot...all the people that are here posting to you do...that's why we are all still here, we all want to give something back, we all want to pass along the secrets that we've learned along the way...so be selfish newstart...want what we have...reach out and grab it, we are begging you to...


Mrs. Wondering

bump > hope you didn't leave NS...this is about your recovery and not what I think...

Bump again.

I see you're still around NS.

I hope you want to talk to us again.

Jen