My wife and I have been married for 17-1/2 years. We have two beautiful daughters, 16 and 15.

About five years ago, I discovered my wife was in an affair with another man in our church. They worked together on various projects and shared musical talents and often performed together. I found out about the affair, after being suspicious, by recording phone conversations between them.

After seeking counseling by one of the pastors at our church, I confronted my wife and this man the day before they were to spend the night together while I took our children out of town to a family event -- my wife has never liked my family.

My wife was angered at my "spying" and that I talked to the pastor. She was worried it would be "all over church". Over the next several months, I caught them continuing to contact each other by checking cell phone records and pager entries. Again, my "spying" damaged my wife's trust in me, but what else could I do?

In the last encounter, I cracked my wife's voice mail at work and found that he had been calling her and leaving snippets of romantic songs he played into the phone for her. I had reached my limits and arranged to meet him. I didn't know if I was going to talk to him or kill him -- this was a very real possibility. I, in no uncertain terms, explained to him that if he makes any more contact with my wife, I would make life so miserable for him in any way I could, that he'd regret ever knowing her. This seemed to work.

My wife, once I admitted to cracking her voice mail, was outraged about my continued "spying".

We have been on the road to recovery for some time. I went to counseling and she refused saying she didn't want to go through all the pain again. She finally agreed only after the counselor told me to tell her he wanted to meet her to talk about me and not her issues. She ended up not going.

The past several years, I have tried to be the best husband I could and I thought she was trying as well. I took extra work on the side to increase our income to buy her nicer things and make money not such an issue. I became better at telling her how beautiful I found her and tried to be a better lover.

I do admit, and did admit to her, to occasionally checking her email, voice mail and cell phone records when I felt something wasn't quite right.

After a recent job change, I got the same feeling in my gut that things weren't quite right. She had been sending flirtatious email to several co-workers and would eat lunch with other men, just the two of them, and walk to the store with them. I confronted her and she said nothing was happening and threatened to leave me if I didn't stop checking up on her. She said she has no problems with eating lunch with another man even if it's not work related. I still think this is wrong.

Two months ago, she started getting very irritated when I would volunteer to do something for her. We have always shared the load transporting children, cleaning house, cooking, but for some reason, she didn't want me to do nice things for her. My gut started acting up again.

This time, I simply confronted her and asked if there was "someone else". She confessed that there was a man with whom she had a "special friendship" but it wasn't an affair and she hadn't slept with him.

I was devastated. I admit to trying to crack her email and voice mail since then, but I always stop before I'm successful because I am afraid it will permanently drive her from me. But I know this "special friendship" will end our marriage if it ever leads to more than friendship (which it probably is already).

My wife tells me she's not romantically or passionately attracted to me anymore. I’m trying to get back into shape, but deep down, I know it’s just a symptom of a bigger problem. When we talk about our relationship and her relationship with him, she says she can’t look at me without remembering all the pain and damage she caused me during her affair. I admit I am a changed man after the affair and she says she’s daily reminded that it’s her fault just by looking at me. I have told her numerous times that I share culpability in her affair by not meeting her needs better and creating an environment that allowed the affair to occur. She says this “special friendship” represents freedom from guilt (that I have not been heaping on her) and a fresh start.

I know he’s probably better looking, in better shape and more fun to be with than I am, but I love my wife. She admits she’s only with me because our children are still in school and I’m afraid in two-and-a-half years, after they’ve graduated and left home, she will, too.

I didn't know of this site during the first affair and now don't know how to apply all this to her current "non-affair, special friendship".

I'm lost.

An affair is 'anything that you do with OP that you wouldn;t do in front of your spouse', Even without sex a EMOTIONAL affair can be devastating.

She is in an EA at least, mate, sorry.

This is the right place for you , but you need to STUDY and apply fast. Read all the articles on the main site, and search here for live examples.

Harley's books " surviving an affair" and his needs, her needs" are GODSENDS when dealing with infidelity AND when learning to be the spouse your W needs.

Good luck, you can do this !

Thanks, b0b.

I've read your "guidebook" post and found some comfort in the sense that I'm not the only person who has the crazy thoughts I have sometimes.

I know we need counseling and am trying to get her to either get her own or come with me. I guess I need to set a deadline for her to make a decision.

I'm rapidly reading all I can on this and other sites.

I sometimes can't shake the feeling she doesn't really care how hard I'm trying to make her love me again.

Thanks for your support.

Spidey, you’re totally correct...this IS wrong, but your W won't see it now because she's in a "fog" and want to rationalize her behavior. Many people who don’t know better and don’t have insight into the dynamics of A’s, think there is nothing wrong with close opposite sex friendships, but if the spouse is excluded from the friendship and if the person is not a friend of the M where both spouses can share time with the person, then the friendship is totally inappropriate and a danger to the M. Most A’s start out as friendships and then escalate into EA’s and/or Pa’s. HERE is a thread which explains this process very well (just click on the link). You can take a look at THIS thread (about Emotional Infidelity) too. I can highly recommend the book ”NOT Just Friends” by Shirley Glass. Maybe you can buy this book an let it lie around in the house for your W to see.

Spidey-

I'm sorry to hear about your problem, but you've come to the right place.

Snooping does make the Wayward Spouse mad....but it's something that needs to be done.

Read surviving an affair, and I agree.....she is having an affair, it may be emotional, so she doesn't believe it's one, but it is.

I think what happened here is by not knowing about Marriage Builders during the first affair, the problems that caused it were not repaired, those problems need to be repaired for your marriage to work, but right now you have to focus on breaking up the current affair.

Good luck to you, and God Bless,

-Caren

Thank you all for the feedback and links.

I guess I have to figure out how to confront her about the true nature of her "special friendship" before it gets too far.

I haven't found anything (I've tried to read as much as I can) about how to deal with the children during these times. I love my kids more than my own life. During my wife's first affair we agreed that a priority in the recovery would be protecting our children from knowledge about what happened. We were successful -- they have no idea how close we came to not being a family.

They're 16 and 15 years old girls and while I know they can handle the truth, I'm worried about what it might do to their view of their mother. She's supposed to be their role model, right?

If I have to lay down an ultimatum (either him or me), how do we deal with the kids if she chooses him or neither?

Your kids aren't stupid Spidey, they can sense the tension...I know this because mine could and they were much younger than yours are. I would suggest letting them in on what's going on...not yet, but eventually.

You need to do the legwork right now, and find out what's going on with your WW.

No ultimatums, not just yet.....you need to Plan A, and gather evidence for confrontation and exposure.

Good luck and God Bless,

-Caren

Hi Spidey, you have received some good advice here so I only wanted to make a few points about your spying on her because I believe she is using your inappropriate guilt as a weapon against you. You should NEVER EVER feel guilty about spying on her. You have an obligation to protect yourself from her if you feel she is being untrustworthy. No one has the right to the privacy to destroy you behind your back. You would be INSANE to afford trust to an untrustworthy person.

It is real important that you stop apologizing for this and stop admitting your snooping resources to her. That is hampering your ability to effectively kill her affairs.


No, it "damaged" her ability to carry on her affairs in complete secrecy. Having an affair is untrustworthy behavior; catching someone having an affair is not. No one has the right to the privacy to destroy you behind your back, my friend.

Has your W had other affairs in your marriage? Because it is sort of unusual to just become a serial cheater after being married for 15 years. In her affair with the church guy, was he married and was it exposed to his W?

Thanks for your words.

I revealed my phone taps to my wife in the initial confrontation 5 years ago. This, of course, drove her away from the phone. That was when I went to cell phone records (where I found calls to hotels and his business) and other means.

I'm loathe to tell her what techniques I'm using for fear of losing their effectiveness.



I believe she had at least an emotional affair early on (married only 3+ years) when I was too stupid to make enough out of it. We were going on a ski retreat as chaperones for our church youth group and a call came to the house the night before. Wrong number -- asked for someone else. My wife asked who it was, I told her the name they were looking for and that it was a wrong number. Immediately, she had to leave the dinner table to "go to the bathroom upstairs". We'll, I'm stupid, but at least my spidey-sense was working. I quietly picked up the extension and heard her talking to a co-worker about the trip. He called, heard me answer, and used his name as the "wrong number" excuse. That must have been some signal between them.

I confronted her then and there and the anger and raised voices upset our daughters, about 2 and 3 years old at the time. We were too young and foolish to not argue in front of them. I thought that was that.

Shortly after the affair 5 years ago, I intercepted instant messaging between her and this guy who, as far as I know, she hadn't seen in years. They each said they missed the other and there was some light, suggestive banter. After I confronted her about that, I haven't heard from him since.

So, I guess the answer is "Yes" and "I don't know".

I'm heart-sick about all of this. I never thought it was possible to feel so depressed all the time. I literally feel it in my gut and my heart when I think about losing her. Crying and starring at the wall just aren't options at work and not getting paid isn't an option at home. I'm in H-E-double-hockey-sticks.

Thanks for your encouragement to continue the fight. I don't want to imagine life without her, but I guess it may come to that.

Hi Spidey,



It appears that your WW has deep seeded problems with regards to marriage,men and appropriate behavior. Yes you had some "recovery" time but it sounds as though she hasn't dealt with her demons or learned anything.She is still wandering after all this time.IMO,she definitely needs IC and she sounds defensive and you aren't really going to be able to coach her or make her do anything.

Also,it's one thing to cheat once and learn your lesson.She sounds like a serial cheater if not phyisically,emotionally.That is something that cannot be fixed without her wanting to and seeking out professional help of which she has refused thus far.

I am not saying this is helpless but you may have to be a lot tougher on her than in the past.Sticking by her is admirable and trying to keep your family intact is also but enough of this treatment.She has to get on the family marriage path or get out of dodge.She is neither being fully committed to you and she most definitely isn't setting a good example to your children,as you mentioned.

Since you just came here,I would *suggest Plan A for a short time period and then you will have to do Plan B.We can help with that.Many times it's the Plan B that gets the spouse to wake up or get off the fence.She needs the message that this will not keep happening every few years.

Have you read the concepts here? Plan A/B?

O

May I suggest the book Not "Just Friends" by Shirley P. Glass, Ph.D?

It's very illuminating.

Yes. I'm contemplating Plan A.

Not sure how I'm going to broach it with her, but I need to do it soon.

Thanks

Spidey,
Don't feel guilty about spying. She'll say she can't trust YOU while she's running around. Things like that can provide an occaisional moment of levity in an otherwise dreadful situation. Try to go for a blank look instead of laughing. Be more careful and don't get caught. My WW really runs her mouth on the phone when she feels safe. That's the only way you'll know what's up since she surely won't tell you ever or any of her friends who you trust and like. I'll be she has a group of friends you hardly know right? That's her new support group. If she's going somewhere with that bunch, bug the vehicle.
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