Questions:
1. What is the responsibility of the WS in recovery?
2. What is the responsibility of the BS in recovery?

We are 3 months into this process. I am angry, resentful, depressed, sad, untrusting, etc. I am grieving the loss of the marriage I thought I had.

My FWH is frustrated that I can't seem to move forward. He says all I do is focus on the A's & don't want to move forward. He seems ready to give up because he feels that I am not willing to move on.

My FWH is highly Passive Aggressive & a classic conflict avoider. Somehow he tries (even without consciously trying) to make everything my fault & he's the victim. He says it's not true, but then what he does says different. Much of his behavior indicates to me that he doesn't have the endurance to make this marriage work because he is constantly frustrated & lecturing me about getting over it. That leaves me feeling more unloved because he gives up so easily & isn't giving love units, but withdrawing them.

I feel he wants me to just "sweep this under the rug" like he would probably do. He also wasn't completely honest when he did tell me about the A's - he tried to re-write the A history & make himself seem less horrible. Over time, I have found out more of the truth, but will never know all (because he cannot remember dates, etc.) He has placed the blame on my not moving forward on me, but I keep telling him in order for me to move forward, I need him to add love units in my bank by consoling me without lectures & frustration. I told him I just need him to be a soft place for me, but it's not.

Help me define the responsibilities of both the WS & BS during the process of recovery so I can help him & myself with this.

W2BS- First let me say that you are doing great for getting through the A and reaching the recovery phase. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" /> Many of us on here only dream of being where you two stand. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I am not an expert on here so, I will offer you advice that has been given to me from Steve Harley.
You need a plan or a road map if you will for recovery. I suggest that you both go to a pro-marriage counsel for the two of you and an IC for each of you.
There are many issues to resolve that is difficult for the two of you to tackle with out a coach to help create a plan and then keep you on track.
Present this idea to your H as a way that you both can learn how to care for each other so this never happens again.
I am not sure how well schooled you are to the MB tools, so I suggest setting up your first MC session with Steve Harley of MB. He can help present the idea's to your H with out you being the one doing the teaching and educating. This takes the pressure off of you, and will most likely Steve can give you the starting point for the plan you two need.

Good Luck and God Bless you.

I have suggested counseling & told FWH that I wanted him to find us a good pro-MC. He agreed, then did nothing. I even said I would be watching to see how much he wants this M to work by his actions. Even after telling him isn't trying because he hasn't looked at all for a good MC (all he had to do is call our pastor & get a recommendation), he still does nothing. This indicates to me that he isn't interested in MC. He also has said things like "you won't like it because they are going to tell you what to do". Of course, my response is I can take hearing it from them, not you.

At one point he told me that he didn't make the call because he thought we were doing better. Of course, he knows now that we are NOT doing better, but still has made no effort. He also spends not time reading His Needs, Her Needs and doesn't visit this site.

Again, as a P/A & C/A, he seems unwilling to do anything but sabotage recovery.

Also, money is a major issue when it comes to calling SH. Literally, that is another one of those responsibilities that bear on my shoulders. I have to make the money to pay the bills. He works, but his income cannot cover much of anything. I am the breadwinner, pay all bills, take care of everything. My need for security is unmet. He has little interest or care about how the bills get paid. I feel overwhelmed by that and all I am facing.

Want2bestrong, here is a great article on the subject:

What the WS/BS Must Do to Reconcile

Suzet*,

Excellent. It makes me feel less crazy. My FWH seems to think the responsibility of recovery mostly rests on ME, not HIM. I've said many of those things over & over, but it seems to fall on deaf ears. I printed that post & hope to go over it tonight with him.

Hi Want2bestrong,

I feel like I am in the same place as you, and I know that we have posted to each before. Maybe it is because we are traveling along the same timeline, as my DDay was also in October 2005. I am getting frustrated in being told by my H that I need to get over it and move on. I think that what we are feeling is normal and our Hs don't realize it and think that it is just us and we are trying to punish them.

Suzet,

Thanks for posting that article. I printed it out for my H to read. Sometimes it is easier for him to read what I am going through from someone else's perspective rather than when I am trying to tell him how I feel. Maybe he will realize that this is normal, and he will understand what he needs to do.

Want2BStrong,

Hello. I hope I can offer some advice from the perspective of a FWW.

I can understand why your H would want to sweep things under the rug. I felt the same way after D-day. I knew that what I had done was wrong, I understood why I had done it and I knew that I wouldn't do anything like that again. I was ready to move on, leave the past behind and just focus on today.

BUT...that is not the best approach. You have the right to know the details of the A. My husband wanted explicit sexual detail, which he was given, but you may not want that much information. Either way, your husband should give you the whole truth up front with the level of detail that you want.

He may not want to discuss the details of the A, but it is much easier to get all the details out up front so everything is out in the open and can be dealt with. Spilling out bits of details here and there will just prolong the recovery effort. Your H seems to want to recover quickly, so getting everything out in the open righ now is much better than holding back details.

Also, if you can, take the initiative to set up counseling yourself. If he won't go with you, at least get some IC.

Honestly, I think you FWH needs to make more of an effort in recovery. He needs to fill up your love bank. He needs to be completely open and transparent with you. he needs to do everything he can to rebuild trust - that means, keeping his email, phone records open to you and accounting for his time away from you.

It will take time for you to process everything. He needs to be patient with you as you deal with the varying emotions. You are still early in recovery and he needs to understand it's going to be a rocky road for a while. An A is an absolutely shattering event in a marriage and is not something that you can pretend never happened.

Also, try to understand the issues in the M prior to the A that may have contributed to it. Those issues need to be identified and dealt with.

I hope some of this is helpful to you. I hope the best for your recovery.

W2BS,

I'm not familiar with the details of your situation, but two immediate possibilities jump right out at me:

1. Are you sure the A is really over?

2. He may still be in withdrawal.

The rest appears to be pretty standard fare from a CA'ing WS.

Has an NC letter been sent? Are protections such as radical honesty and total transparancey in place?

With prayers,

MAMAFISH,

Thanks for your words of encouragement. At first, we seemed to jump onto the road to recovery, but then as my FWH was more frustrated at me, I began pulling away to the point that I feel we could be headed for D if nothing changes. I told him I need consoling, not lecturing at me or arguing with me. I told him over & over, but he refused to listen believing that I was stalling my own progress (and wanted to stay mad & depressed). Today, I went over Suzet's post with him & he seemed to realize that I don't bear the full responsibility of recovery (as he was believing I could heal if I wanted to). There are many other parts of Suzet's post that I told him I needed from him, but he wouldn't listen to those either before he got it from another source - not from just me! (feel my pain, understand the devastation he's caused, prove his love, etc.).

Being a serious P/A & C/A is our major issue for my FWH. This means he doesn't want to face any conflict or problems & doesn't want to accept responbility for it either (even though he does accept it in words, you won't see it in actions as they are likely to be the opposite of his words). Now, how can anyone heal with that going on?

I explained to him today that he would NEVER be a good husband, Christian, father or friend to anyone if he didn't face this & complete it - making our marriage whole again. I said he would be better in the long run if he works on this marriage & we make it through the other side. But, if he quits (like he does with everything else - AND I MEAN LITERALLY), he is going to live a broken life just like his mother's & never accomplish anything. He did say it would be REALLY hard (which makes him want to quit), but I said "when you dig a hold to China, it's going to be a long road back!"

I also mentioned that maybe God wants to do some work on him because what type of Christian is he if he's quitting everything? How will he be a help to others? What contribution can he make for God if he's quitting?

These are just a few things we talked about. I told him that if we make it through this, he will have the credit of completing something extremely difficult, but if we don't make it, it will also be on his shoulders that he quit on me. And how can he say he loves me if he quits on me.

Violet04,

One of our problems is that my FWH has a "foggy" memory (pun intended). Because he's so P/A, even in answering my questions, he would lie. He would say things like "I did it, but I didn't want to!" HUH? Finally, after MUCH questioning & discussion, he admitted that he really meant "He wanted to, but knew it was wrong!" So, from the beginning, it has been very frustrating as I get answers like this about almost everything only to later get another answer or different answer. Also, he is unable to tell me when the A started, when it ended, how long it lasted, so I cannot trust that I've gotten all details I would like. I believe that there are things I will never know because he can't remember even though he is adamant that he's told me everything. However, just as one example, I asked "did you meet her outside work?" later on in this process and the answer was "OH, yeah I did, I guess I forgot". Now, I know if I don't have the right questions, I will never get all the answers. IT'S VERY FRUSTRATING. Even 2 nights ago, he was saying something about her boobs (answering me) and said "in the bathroom" as the location and I said "is that the same time you pulled you **** out?" He said "no, we always went in the bathroom." Then, I said "that is not what you said to me before" and he started arguing with me. I then tried to remind him that I've went over this in my head a million times I know what he said & what he didn't. He didn't believe me & said he told me, I must not remember. I could have strangled him at this point. For him to have a bad memory (and I do not), when something happens, he always believe he remembered it right. Not having all the facts is making me insane!

All of this has withdrawn OVER & OVER from my love bank, putting nothing in. Even today, when I told him what he would have to do to recover this marriage, he said "That will be hard because you will not be adding to my love bank". I'm thinking my love bank is already almost empty, but all he can think about is himself (typical, BTW).

Yes, the A has been over for several years. He still had contact (on her part) up until D-day. He quit working with her shortly after A was over & avoided her as much as possible when he "ended it" (meaning just avoiding her to end it too - I said he's a P/A and C/A)

He didn't have withdrawl as I just said he ended it by avoiding her. He didn't want anything to do with her and it was several years ago.

He told her NC over the phone with me there (I didn't have MB to know about NC letter). She has not made any contact since March (when she got married - although she was living w/ BF & they have kids together but that didn't stop her from calling for 2 years after A)

Radical Honesty & Tranparency are NOT exactly in place. For the most part, I have all the info, but he doesn't necessarily volunteer info when I don't know about it. Even the other day, he got a voicemail, listened to it in front of me, then deleted it & said nothing. I waited to see if he was going to tell me about it and he didn't. When I questioned him, he realized that he wasn't thinking about it but should have told me at the time (typical answer). Actions never line up to words.

Hi Want2Bestrong,

I just wrote a bunch of stuff and then got bumped off the board, so I'll start again and try to remember what I said.

I'm glad that you and your H sat down to discuss Suzet's post. It makes a big difference when they see that it is not just YOU trying to make them feel guilty about the A. I am going to give it to my H and read it with him either tonight or over the weekend. I know how you feel. I want my H to understand my pain. It was suggested to me by another poster that I try to empathize with his pain and his feelings so that he will be more receptive to my feelings. I will try it. I hope it works.

It is very frustrating especially when you feel like you are doing all the work. That is how I felt this week, like, You are the one who had the A, and I am bending over backwards to meet your ENs and understand you, and I am getting nothing (or very little) in return. My H told me that he has seen a very positive change in me over the last few weeks. He gives alot of the credit for this to the fact that we have been going to church regularly. I do also, but I know that I have been doing alot of work on myself, I hold myself accountable for my part in the marriage pre-A, and I am trying to change my patterns of behavior and avoid LBs. He also tries to avoid responsibility and always has someone else to blame for his actions. Sometimes he goes back to this and blames me, but then takes it back.

You told me a few weeks ago to watch his actions and not his words, and I have been doing that. I find that if I step back and do not fall into his trap of getting in an argument with him about things (not even the A), he will think about it, realize what he said, and will apologize. It's like a delayed reaction on his part, and if I don't do what he expects, he can understand my side.

Hang in there. It is going to be a long road. You are in it together. If he is committed, he will do what it takes for the marriage. Just take it one day at a time...Yes, it's going to take work and time but it will be worth the effort in the long run...

Want,

I think this is fairly common. My FWH readily admitted the affair when I confronted him on d-day. Of course I had the email and credit card charges to prove it in my hand, so denying was probably not an option. But he withheld lots of information which I ultimately learned thru my own snooping over time. Each drib and drab of new information was like a new d-day all over. Fresh pain, fresh betrayal.....starting the recovery process all over.

I do know that he was ashamed and afraid and regretted his affair more than anything he had done in his life, but he didn't understand that just moving on and focusing on the future wasn't going to work for me. Because of these things, our recovery was stalled and in some ways, I will never be really sure that I know the whole truth and will always carry a little anxiety over the fact that someday, totally by accident, I might learn some horrible new detail that will cause me to start the whole process all over.

You are fortunate that you have found MB early in the process. Both you and your FWH need to follow the guidelines given for the WS and BS, they are really on the money.

Who

MAMAFISH,

You know I'm great at the advice, but have a hard time following it. I have let myself get into arguements (even over other things) falling right into that trap. I've been so warn out & warn down, that I haven't really done a good job of avoiding LB's lately either. I've fallen into old habits I quit years ago. I've told my H that I hate who I am becoming as well.

I would say that church for me has been a lifeline. The lessons are great for me (especially last Sunday & Sunday night) which dealt with the responsibilities of a Husband & Wife & Infidelity. Sunday night I almost lost it right there when our pastor was talking about David & Bathseba. I fought back the tears for most of the service. We went forward to pray at the end (which is hard because everyone KNOWS why you went up there in some way) in which I prayed to be able to forgive him. It was one of the hardest services to listen to but the most rewarding for being there.

I think the one thing that hit home to my FWH is that David lost many things in life because he made those choices. My FWH is left wondering what gifts he lost because of his choices.

After feeling so frustrated, I started shutting him off sexually because I felt I was giving & giving & he was doing nothing to help me recover and heal. I guess that's not right either, but it was my only way to feel sane. I wanted to withdraw & make him leave me so I didn't have deal with his excuses & his lack of compassion for me.

I think after going over Suzet's post, he now gets it. He has the key to our success if he will just use it.

I feel like many of the details I stumble on take me right back to the beginning (after the intial shock of course). Everytime, however, I build more resentment for him for putting me through this. I think, though, today, we had a breakthrough & he is truly going to try to get our marriage back on track. If he's really making an effort to comfort me & help me, I know I can make it out of this deep hole I'm in.

Hi w2bestrong,

Sorry I am out of time now and have to go home. I only have a computer at work. Will be back on Mon morning to post.

I read your last one and understand how you are feeling. Will post on Monday.
Have a good weekend!

Thanks for all the great advice here. I think my FWH & I have made a breakthrough since he now understands his responsibility & mine in the recovery process. It is not going to be easy, but at least it's a start.

Hi Want2bstrong,

I am glad that you and your H are moving forward into recovery, and that he has made a breakthrough after reading that article. I did not give this to my H yet. We had some good news on Friday afternoon as he got a new job that he wanted, so we had a very good weekend as a result. This job will be on dayshift (he was working graveshift) so we will both be working similar hours.

We did go to church yesterday, and it was well worth the effort to go. The pastor is starting a new program called In The Zone which will instruct us all in how to make a plan for your life. He asked, do you want a better 2006? Well you need a plan, you can talk about it all day long but you will get nothing accomplished without a plan. So, it was very inspiring for both me and my H. We are going to sit down and talk this week, because he will go back to work next week, and won't have as much time as we do now.

The church is also having a Men's breakfast in a couple weeks as preparation for Valentines Day and it is called how to be a better husband. He said that he would like to go to it unless he is asked to work overtime that day. So that was positive.

In my case, I have not withdrawn from him and SF. As this is his #1 EN and the "reason" that he had the A was he felt rejected by me, I have been trying to meet this EN much more. And the nice thing about it is that I want to, and don't feel like I have to. He is trying to meet my ENs and it is coming around full circle, bit by bit.


I hope that my H is as receptive as yours. I think he will be. Now that he has this job, it is a load off his mind. God is definitely helping us work things out in His own way and time.

Sounds like church is very helpful. I know it is for me & my H. Helps give us focus and recharge for the days ahead. We've been attending all services to get the maximum benefit as well. I want to a ladies' fellowship tonight that was very good for me too.

I only started withdrawing from my H about a week before I posted this so he didn't have SF with me for almost a week. It's good I went ahead & posted here, because I certainly got the right help to get things going again.

You know, last night's service was about trusting God. At the end, the pastor repeated over & over "God cannot lie, God cannot lie, God cannot lie" so you can trust in his word & trust in him. That has been my biggest problem is I don't have enough trust in God to see us through this. It's very difficult, but now I am praying for a faithful, loyal husband who is the husband I need & want for a long life together. I am praying for my the P/A behavior & I am praying that I change anything God wants to see changed in me.

I have to remember some of the promises God made & keep reminding myself that God cannot lie:

Matthew 21:22
And all things, whatsoever ye shall ask in prayer, believing, ye shall receive.

Want2bestrong, I just want to say, I’m SO glad that article was helpful to you and your H and that he has made a breakthrough after reading it! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> I’ve received that article from a MB friend who on her turn, have got it from another infidelity website and I really thought that article summed up the responsibilities of the FWS and BS very well.