TD -


Again, speaking from my personal experience, I think you have a pretty accurate grasp of where your wife is at.

MP came back for 2 reasons:

1. Our kids (DS 11 and DD 3).
2. To work on our marriage.

She did not come back for me, at least not directly. She really had no reason to - until a few weeks ago, just prior to her trip, I had given her no reason to.

She sees the changes in me...she acknowledges that I have done pretty much a 180, and at lightning speed. Actually, all I really did was submit myself to God, and He's done the rest.

I also know that it will take time for her to accept these changs in me long enough to begin to feel even remotely comfortable trusting me again, enough to open up to me and be vulnerable.


I am no psychologist, but I believe that when a WS decides to come back and work on the marriage, even if he/she feels absolutely nothing for the other spouse, that there is some love remaining. It's just buried under a ton of crap, hurt, pain, anger, etc.

I tend to write a lot in analogies. Picture your wife's heart as lump of coal. You know that there is diamond in that coal, just waiting to shine through. In fact, I'm willing to bet that you have seen that diamond (otherwise why would you have married her?).

The recovery process is where that coal will be changed into a diamond. It's probably safe to say that this process will have that effect on both of you, and when it is completed, the brilliance of both your diamonds, shining together as one, will eclipse the sun.

My wife's feeling vary from day to day. She has told me, many times, that she loves me. And there are some days when she won't say that. It is hard to not hear that from her, but I accept it as a reflection of how she is feeling at that given moment. In fact, I have asked her not to tell me "I love you" unless she means it and feels it.

I know that, for MP, she has a lot of anger, bitterness and hurt that it took the A to finally and fully wake me up to the issues in our marriage. She had raised many of them with me repeatedly, and I did not act on them.

Nothing justifies an affair. I believe that you know that. I know my wife knows that as well. But the past is the past. We cannot change it. We can (and certainly should) learn from it. My focus right now is on today, the here and now. What can I do today to make things better, and therefore make the future even better? That's a question I ask myself repeatedly.


I think it is natural to grasp for hope when we are faced with the very real prospect of losing something we value so highly, especially when we do not have full control over the situation. If the situation is something that we have caused (in part or in whole), it makes it even worse. I can think of few things in life worse than spending your remaining days kicking yourself for what you did wrong that resulted in pain - both to yourself and to someone you love.

For me, I have to walk a very fine line, between being firm in what I want, and appearing "needy" (in a childish, clingy way). I am fortunate that my wife is willing to let me express my feelings to her, and that she is also willing to let me make mistakes along my path to becoming a better person.

From my own very limited experience in recovery, and from the countless threads I've read here, and the advice people here (and elsewhere) have given me, I think that the BS has the bigger load to carry, at least at first. In some ways, we have to hold our pain inside (or find an outlet other than our spouse to release our feelings), while simultaneously projecting strength and love to guide our spouse back to us.

It's not an easy job, and some days will be worse than others. Hold on to the positives that you see from your wife. More importantly, tell her the positives you see. Encourage her, praise her. If she does something that hurts you, let her know that as well, but in a kind, non-threatening manner.

I would highly encourage you to pick up "Power Of A Praying Husband" by Stormie Omartian. She has several other books out, including "Power Of A Praying Wife", which my wife has read recently. We both wish we'd had these at the start of our marriage (4-1/2 years ago).

Out of everything that I have done in the last month, my wife has consistently told me that the biggest one, the one that has meant the most to her, is my constant praying - for her, over her and with her. She has told me that it is having an effect, and I have seen this to be true.

Luke 1:37 says "For nothing is impossible with God" (or words to that effect). That is so very true. I have seen what my efforts on my own have accomplished (or not), and I have seen what God has done when I've let Him take control. I much prefer the results He gets.

I'm sure I have more to say, but I'm drawing a blank right now and need to get back to work. I will leave you with this tidbit from my personal experience.

Back in early December, before the second trip was even planned, my wife told me she wanted me to fight for her. Being a man, my initial thought was I can do that. I'll keep anyone who threatens our marriage away from her anyway I can (within reason).

It wasn't until this weekend that I finally understood what she was really asking. She doesn't want me to go out and slay the Goliaths. She wants me to become the man she thought she was marrying, the man God has been calling me to be...fight to be that man, become that man. Become the man she wants. And it is a fight. To become that man, I have to die to myself. On many levels, many times.

Stay the course, TD. Continue to trust in God. Seek His will. Give everything to Him, and then do the things He asks of you. There are countless stories (here and elsewhere) of God restoring marriages that nobody thought could be saved, even the couple involved. Pray for your wife. Pray with her, if she'll let you (even if she won't join in with you).

It is not God's will that any marriage should fail. Yes, it does take two to make a marriage, and you cannot make the other person save the marriage. Do all that you can, even when you're not sure it's having an effect. Let God take care of the rest.

Ok...I've rambled enough for now. Fair warning...I'm the kind of person who can be very quiet until I get to know someone....then you'll wonder how to get me to shut up <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Brokenbird,

Ya know... When my W read your post, she said, "Darn, I wish I had my affair a long time ago?"

I asked why, and she said, "Brokenbird's wife only had to wait 4 years or so before she had hers and got her husband to wake up and work on being a better husband. I waited for more than 12 years. It's not fair!"

I'm not sure how I should take that... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

Otherwise, I'm pleased with how things are going. It's certainly not perfect, but I think there's some real progress. When my W reads this, she'll probably think I'm getting my hopes up too high, but a lil' hope isn't *such* a bad thing, now is it??? Seriously, though, she says she isn't *feeling* attracted to me and isn't even sure that if we weren't already married if she would choose me as a friend. (Maybe, maybe not...) Anyway, we were able to spend more than an hour together chit-chatting and generally being together, and I stole a few kisses and she didn't seem to mind. I even asked her later if that had bothered her, and she said it didn't. I think that's a BIG step of from cringing whenever I contact her at all.

Today's her second day on her new job. It's helping to take her mind off of things, and give her a sense of accomplishment, and that seems to be positive too.

Also, and I'm not sure if she's noticed this or not, but she's talking about more hypotheticals of us staying together than in weeks (months, even). Even if she's not thrilled in the relationship yet, I think it's becoming clear that she's not got any pressing reasons to leave any time too soon. So, perhaps as we go along she'll start to like being married to me again... (I'm actually fairly confident that that's precisely what's GOING TO happen, but predictions are notoriously difficult, especially about the future.:))

One thing I've been reminded of, now that Crystal43 has a job outside the house is that our dogs are spiteful (correction: HER "d@mn mutts" are spiteful and evil). This morning they used our bedroom as a restroom TWICE. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" /> They're trained, but they're mad at us for putting them in the basement while we're out of the house all day and I think they especially miss having Crystal all to themselves for several hours in the middle of each work day.

Now lets see what the rest of THIS day holds.

TD -


Hard to say. In the absence of evidence to the contrary, I'd take it positive (i.e., we could have spent the last 8 years building a loving, happy marriage).

I would like to interject that an A is not the best way to wake up a neglectful spouse. That's an obvious statement, but worth repeating. It (the A) may wake the spouse up (or both spouses), but the pain, hurt, anger and resentment it generates are certainly not worth it.


Nope, not at all. As long as it's a realistic hope. From what you've shared, I believe it is. Do stay prepared for setbacks. My wife has told me many times to just take things one day at a time. And it's really the best way. Certainly plan for the future, and work towards that future, but each day is a new day. From what the old hands here tell me, the rollercoaster does eventually level out some, but early on it's quite a ride.


Do not underestimate the importance of a sense of accomplishment. One of the things I had to learn about my wife, and I think it applies to a lot of wives, is that they need to be valued as a person (who they are), and having a sense of accomplishment (in addition to what they receive as a wife, mother, etc) is very important.

MP (MP stands for magpie, in case you were wondering...that's my wife's user name on the forums) just started a new job after 4+ years of being a SAHM. Hopefully the current job is a temporary one before moving on to something better (it's minimum wage, long commute, and we work semi-opposite shifts to minimize daycare costs), but it gives her adult interaction, a sense of accomplishment and validates her value and worth as a person.


Would you like a slightly neurotic cat that goes everywhere but the litterbox? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Last night was interesting and kinda funny.

Crystal had messed-up the garage on Sunday in an attempt to try to find some resources for the job she started on Monday. She didn't find the books she was looking for but she did mess up the garage to the extent that she couldn't park her car in it. So, on Tuesday morning, when it got pretty nippy, and she had to take the DDs to school, she had to start her trip by scraping her windows.

So, in my morning ritual of cleaning and straightening the house (usually doing laundry, dishes, and wiping off counters, etc.) to meet her EN for Domestic Support, and demonstrate some affection for her by action, I included straightening the garage.

When I got home, she jumped up from the table where she had just started to serve dinner to the DDs, and planted a big smooch right on me. That was a pick-me up 4 sure. It seems my making sure she had a clear spot in the garage made some Love Bank deposits.

Then all during dinner, she laughed and giggled with me, with the kids, at me, and at me with the kids. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" /> It was the happiest I've seen her in a LONG time. She almost blew chunks of potato out her nose a couple times.

Anyway, she and I had some "alone" time per our plan and she looked at me and said, "Ya know, I'm REALLY going to HATE it if all those posters on MarriageBuilders and the counselors turn out to be right [that she CAN and WILL fall back in love with me]. If it really does happen, I'm going to say it was mostly that I was happier because I started working."

I smiled, and told her, it won't really matter because if the plan works she WILL be in love again and happy about it. She said, "Yeah, I guess."

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

She also mentioned that she's feeling less and less of an urge to move out and her reasons really are dissipating. I think that kind of surprised her.

Anyway, we're still a long way from where we are headed. She is still afraid and/or unwilling to SAY that she loves me, or even has ANY feelings like attraction. I long to hear her profess her love for me, and I think that the main thing now is that she's just afraid to admitt to herself that the feelings of attraction ARE starting to re-appear.

Progress really does happen one step at a time, and day by day. Somedays more than others, but overall we're headed in the right direction.

It's hard not to smile when you can see progress. I can't wait till my W starts to WANT me again. It's kinda funny, but even if affection isn't one of your most important ENs, it really does take a toll when your spouse (FWW) goes out of her way to sterilize her interactions so as not to allow the "undue appearance" of affection for an extended period of time.