Hi Everyone,

Yesterday was really a cruddy day for me. TD blasted the heck out of me on this board...which I guess was better than doing it in person. There was VERY little talking between us all day yesterday. And, yes, I know that I gave nearly as good as I got yesterday on this board as well.

I don't know how to move forward from all of this. I desperately want to stop feeling so empty inside. I have been so lonely for so long...have felt extremely neglected by TD...have felt overwhelmed with household duties and child rearing...have felt isolated from the outside world...and now feel like there's nobody in my corner rooting for me.

I'm trying to come to grips with how I've been treated by my parents over the years...how I felt my mother controlled and manipulated me...how I felt I was never good enough, no matter what I did to please them...how I didn't feel accepted by them...how I didn't feel the unconditional love I so desperately longed for.

I guess that I married TD because I thought he could give me all of the things that my parents hadn't...but I feel as though he has just been a continuation of them...that I didn't GAIN any love or acceptance or control over my own life by marrying him. I know now that being married does not solve your inner problems. But I don't know HOW to fix those. I just don't understand what I ever did in my life to deserve being treated the way I have been all of these years...by my parents, by friends, and even by my husband.

I have always been a very giving person, but I guess I let myself be taken advantage of in a desperate need to find acceptance. In school, I was always the one who was teased...I got straight A's and all the teachers loved me, but my peers made fun of me. By the time I reached high school, the situations were more "adult" and I continually found myself being stabbed in the back by my "friends..." from my "best friend" fooling around with my first boyfriend behind my back, to an entire group of friends choosing someone else over me because they felt they had to take sides (I'd dated a guy for a year and a half, and decided to break up with him...3 days later he was dating the girl I hated MOST, because she was the one who fooled around with my first boyfriend...eventually getting pregnant, though everyone bought her story that she had Mono for several months). I was devastated so many times in high school, and only had 1 true friend who never turned her back on me nor betrayed me. College was no better. I was able to escape all of the "evil" I'd faced in high school, but I was too afraid to put myself out there to be hurt again. In addition, I commuted to school and I worked, which made it very difficult to make friends.

At the end of high school I got saved and thought that my life would just become a bed of roses after that. Yeah, right. Even my friends at church disappointed me time and time again. I dated one guy for a little while and I just couldn't date him anymore because he was so needy, so I broke up with him. He then went around the entire church, spreading a rumor that HE broke up with ME because I wanted to sleep with him...which couldn't have been further from the truth. I'd had that reputation in high school, but when I got saved I gave that all up...and then here was this "Christian" who was basically ruining my "good girl" reputation with lies, once again stabbing me in the back as had happened so many times in my life.

I eventually met TD when I was Frshman in college and he was a Junior in high school. We met on a church retreat. I was so moved by a talk he gave on...and this is going to blow your mind..."acceptance." I still remember the pain in his voice about the cancer he'd just gone through and the fears he had about that and the hurt feelings he had by some of the things his parents did through that time. He and I stayed up all night with another person and we talked about everything under the sun. I thought for sure he was going to ask me to go out with by the end of that retreat...but he chose someone else instead.

That was the story of my life...not being the one chosen. There was a girl at our church who was a couple years younger than me, and all the guys seemed to choose her to date...to this day I still don't see the appeal. After all, I was smarter, more mature, and much less needy than she was. Yet time and time again, guys chose her over me.

Finally, nearly a year after that retreat, TD and I started dating. The ironic thing is, he and I had an intense conversation one night at church...he looked sad and was walking out the door, and I stopped him and tried to make him feel better by letting him talk through what was wrong. It turned out that he was upset because that girl who kept getting "chosen" by all the guys had turned him down for a date.

And so I was left as the consolation prize.

I don't know how to heal from my past hurts. I know I should be able to bask in the glory and mercy of God's unconditional love and that should be enough for me. But I want that same thing here on earth, too. I so desperately want the WHOLE PACKAGE: love, acceptance, caring, sharing, physical attraction, stability, SF, trust, friendship, great conversation, and a sense of intellectual and personal equality.

I don't know how to move forward. I don't know how to forgive my husband. I don't know how to stop the cycle of disappointments in my life. I don't know how to explain to myself why I kept being treated so badly by people I trusted. I don't know how to explain to myself why it is that I deserved to be treated this way over and over again.

The worst part is, that I really thought my H was different. I truly believed that he would be the one person in my life who would do his best to never let me down. But that didn't happen. He let me down over and over and over again...and yet I stayed, even when I felt neglected and used and unloved.

How can I learn to trust this man again who let me down so deeply?? How can I set myself up for that pain again? I can't spend another 13 years being so lonely. I don't think I can take even one more day of it. I think I'd be much happier living by myself somewhere so that all I had to depend on was me. I'm the one person who's never let me down. Well, I let myself down when I pushed my morals to the side to "self medicate" through swinging and then the A. But, for the first 12 1/2 years of marriage, I was the only one I could count on. So why bother sharing my life with other people who are only going to use me and hurt me? Why set myself up for such torment over and over again?

Crystal

Hi Crystal,

I dont know anything about your story, but your post sounds like you are looking for external validation in order to fill something inside. No one will ever be able to make you feel loved and take away a loniness that stems from personal insecurity, if that is what is going on.

So long as we look to others for approval and gratification we will be their prisoners.

Work on filling your own need for love (self love), then give your love to others without expectation in return.

C43,
I am very glad you have started your own thread.

I agree with Ahuman's post. It's true that no one can live in a vaccuum, expecting no support or interaction with other people, but you may be leaning too far the other way.

Tell me: Do you have a copy of *His Needs, Her Needs*? I think it would be a very good beginning roadmap to Getting What You Need From Your Marriage.

Once you've read it -- and it's not very long -- I think we could all have some very good discussions here about how it applies to you and your marriage and easing some of your pain and emptiness.
Mulan

Mulan and Ahuman,

I honestly don't know what to do. I have been, for the most part in my life, proud of the person I am. At the same time, I don't feel as though I'm meant to live my life alone. It's very difficult to go through life day by day with nobody to share it with. In order to actually "share" your life with someone, the other person has to be equally open to the concept. Perhaps TD is finally there, but I still feel like he's got a long way to go. Meanwhile, all of the things I need to do are so taxing on my emotions, and my love bank is in the red, and has been for a very long time. Emotionally speaking, I really don't haven anything more to give to anyone, even to myself. How do I pick myself up out of this?

Crystal

Have you been giving or have you been sacrificing?

Think carefully .... You know about the Giver and Taker, right?

Try to examine your marriage agreement

look here ....

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/sho...page=0&vc=1

You'll never get past what has happened if you continue to blame others for everything. YOU had the affair, not your husband. It was YOUR fault, not his. He may have contributed to the unhappiness in your marriage but being the other half of the equation, he was in the same unhappy marriage yet didn't have an affair. The real question should be "How can I make ammends for the hurt I have inflicted?"

I suggest you get into IC. I'll say to you what my father said to me when I was in my early 20's. Grow up-the world doesn't revolve around you.

Good grief crystal. You're still carrying around events that happened in high school!?! Give me a break. Everybody is stupid in high school and does stupid things. Just because you weren't the most popular, you're blaming your bad behavior in adulthood on those pains from your teens! Don't you realize that EVERYBODY felt the same way. The difference being most everybody realizes it was a childish thing, sees the humor in it and moves on. What is devastating to you is humorous to most and provides a life lesson.

I guarantee you that you'll never find happiness in this marriage or the next, with repairing the relationship with your family or whatever church to choose to attend. It will always be something. Maturity tells us that we either learn life's lessons and grow or nit-pick situations that don't suit or revolve around us as horrible life experiences that we use to cripple our lives. Take your pick.

You'll never find happiness obsessing about yourself but spend your life in the care of others. You say you're a Christian. Did Jesus sit and stew at cruelty and rejection? No, in turn He gave his life so that we all could be forgiven for our sins. What does the Bible say, there is no greater love than one who gives his life for another.

Follow that example crystal...quit being so self-centered, immature and follow the example of the Savior you claim to follow.

crystal
just posting for help and putting out your feelings is agood start. that took courage.

Righ now while you are suffering the effects of long term depresson and until the meds start to help - because they can take a few weeks- all the past little hurts and slights will seem large and of more importance than the really be.
However they may be a good way to understand how you got to where you are.

Now some of that is NOT expecting people to always give in return..the world is not like that sadly. Do you give out of love or sacrifice out of fear of not being loved?
Did that perhaps get mixed up over time?

I am glad you dont want the old M, it was lousy for both of you after some time. So get a new one. Decide to have a better one, one where you can meet the needs of each other, that you are prepared to ask each other what those needs are. That finding out your needs & his needs you will try to meet his & he will try to meet yours.
Now dont get panicked..you can rarely meet ALL needs at one time. You do the best you can and meet a few at a time.

How do you forgive? We had a discussion on here some time ago..Ill try to find it for you. But in short I believe its a spiritual thing. Not a easy one.
To begin the proces you will need to see that it is becoming 'safe' for you to trust your H again and know he wont deliberately hurt you. ANd of course it works the same for him.

Did you look at kyellow4's post yet? I think its mportant you read it and see what some experienced FWW have found out... its tough but it can help ..pls read it.

Well very late here going to bed

Have a better day today <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

You ask Christ and your H to forgive you. If you need to find clergy, or a pastor to help you through this, then do it. You write a NC letter to OM, and never contact him again, and visaversa. And then you ask God to fill you with His love on a daily basis, and walk in it. This is the only way you will be picked up. You have fallen down.

If you "continue" to turn back Crystal, I would hate to see what you become. You need to be restored.

Stop looking at your parents problems, that you are the same way etc, etc,. You are only confessing curses over each other by doing that, generational ones.
Pray about it!!!

You left your parents when you married, and you are to cleave to your H, and let not "man" seperate that.

You married a man with illnesses, so did I. I knew it when I said "I do". That does not change the vows to love him in sickness in health now 4 years later because I'm tired of it all. I only pray for his healing, and my H has had healings. I knew it might not be easy, but here I am. Trusting Christ. We all have growing up to do Crystal.

Blessings,
Lady

jph,

I was going to just ignore your post entirely, but I had second thoughts on it.

You're a real piece of work, do you know that?

Apparently you think you can swoop in on this thread, make a quick judgment about my being immature and selfish, toss a bunch of bull at me, and go on your merry way. Your comments were neither respectful NOR helpful in any way.

The reason I started this particular thread is because my H and I were DJ-ing back and forth on another thread, and it was recommended by some posters that we start our own threads and talk about the pain we're feeling rather than blaming each other for things we've done in the past. So, this thread is my attempt to do that very thing.

I'm not blaming TD for my A. I know that it was my choice, and I'd take it back if I could. The only difference is that I would've left first before seeing another man, and the one I'd have chosen would definitely NOT have been the OM with whom I had the A.

And, NO, I'm not "carrying around things left from high school." I was merely trying to paint a complete picture on this thread...showing the "pattern" of my life.

As far as my being selfish goes...hmmmm...yes, I was selfish when I had the A. But for the 12 1/2 years before that??? I was probably the LEAST selfish person on the planet. And, now that I think back, I realize that at some point my "giving" nature actually became a "sacrificing" nature...and my taker came out after too many years of sacrificing myself for the sakes of my H and my kids.

Nit pick??? Nope, I'm not nit-picking at all. There have been HUGE issues in this M for a LONG time that went undiagnosed and unresolved because we were in a constant state of upheaval (moves, having children, etc.).

So, I suggest the next time you decide to throw your 2 cents in as if you know EVERYTHING there is to know about a person's situation, you actually do your homework first. Blasting people on this site who are really trying to repair their M and their own lives is neither compassionate nor productive. Perhaps you should go spew your "grow up" advice elsewhere...like in the mirror, maybe.

Crystal

ladysheep,

Yes, I did marry someone with illnesses. He had cancer at 15, (2 years before we started dating) and was diagnosed with thyroid cancer at 29 (10 years into our M, and less than one year after our most recent move). The cancer I can handle because it's something measurable that can be tested for. But I had no idea that I was marrying someone with depression, or that I was marrying someone who (while we were dating could be so loving and compassionate and caring) would turn out to be as Stoic as Zeno himself, or Marcus Aurelius.

I only look at my parents' problems as an example of who I DON'T want to be. It's only been since I've lived closer to them over the last 4 1/2 years that I've realized the character flaws I have that were taught to me by my parents.

I'm trying my best, but I'm exhausted. And now I'm starting a new job tomorrow...probably the worst possible time for me given the state of my M and my emotional state. Perhaps it will give me a chance to step aside from my emotions a bit...a mini-vacation from them daily.

Crystal

I expected such a response. I'm sure it was the same type of response I gave my dear Dad when he told me to grow up as well.

Now let ME make a suggestion to YOU, if you don't want honest responses here, put a disclaimer that you only want posts that agree with your foolish behavior.

If your marriage had issues that went undiagnosed and unresolved why in this world would you bring children into it?

Are you really trying to repair your marriage? Then why the contact with your "friend" the OM? Being faithful for 12 1/2 years doesn't negate the affair and doesn't win anyoone any award. It's base and expected behavior.

There's a great feature here on MB. It's called "Ignore this users posts."

aussieswife,

I've been on 2 anti-depressants since september, I believe. They're helping in that I can actually stay awake all day now without needing a 3 hour nap in the afternoon and 8+ hours sleep at night. But I'm thinking that their full effectiveness has already kicked in. Do I SOUND like I'm on meds???? I can only imagine how I must've sounded BEFORE them.

Meeting his needs right now is impossible for me. Just tolerating being in his presence is about all I can muster. Jennifer H. told me that I have to "protect" him during this time, as he's working on changing his behaviors...so I'm trying to be nicer to him, but every time he says "I love you," it drives me crazy, because I don't feel that love for him, I haven't felt that love for him in a VERY long time (probably since at least before his last bought with cancer 4 years ago, when all I saw him as was a burden for whom I had to do everything...and I HATED that I felt that way at the time).

Hmmm...do I give out of love or sacrifice out of fear of not being loved? You know what? I honestly don't know the answer to that one. I know that there are a lot of times that I volunteer to do things for people out of a desire to feel needed and wanted by them. So, in a way I guess I do sacrifice out of fear of not being loved. I've also sacrificed out of a sense of duty...the whole "wives, submit yourselves to your husbands" deal. It gets harder and harder to submit to a man for whom you have very little respect or love anymore.

Crystal

jph,

I've gotten PLENTY of honest responses here that have been VERY negative towards me...however they were also quite helpful. Yours, on the other hand, points out what you perceive to be the problem and then your solution is to "fix it." Well, DUH!!! You're just like the people who (a) don't vote but then bi*ch and moan at how lousy the president is, or (b) complain how the government is run so poorly, but when asked what they would do to fix things to make them better, they don't have a clue.

Pointing out THAT there is a problem isn't advice. Telling someone to go fix themselves also isn't advice.

Many people here are HONESTLY looking for answers and examples of ways they can better themselves and their marriages. Next time, why don't you just tell a 5-year-old child to go outside and ride a bike for the first time, without demonstrating to him how it is to be done, and without holding on to the seat to steady him while he takes those first wobbly pedals down the road. Gee, now wouldn't that be setting him up for failure?? How constructive!

Crystal

Crystal, I tried to read your threads and TD's. I have a couple of questions if you would so indulge me.

1. Are you still in contact with the OM?

2. Do you want to stay married to TD?

[quote] You're just like the people who (a) don't vote but then bi*ch and moan at how lousy the president is, or (b) complain how the government is run so poorly, but when asked what they would do to fix things to make them better, they don't have a clue.


This is so idiotic that I can hardly respond. First of all in 33 years of being eligible to vote, I missed one election. We were on vacation and it was a local election for sheriff that was uncontested. His wife's vote got him the election. What that has to do with anything is baffling..


"Pointing out THAT there is a problem isn't advice. Telling someone to go fix themselves also isn't advice."


So the variables in this situation are threefold. You, your husband and OM. Your husband is making great effort to change and work on the marriage. You on the other hand are giving justifications for your behavior-and very flimsy ones at that. Did you marriage vows include "in sickness and in health forsake all others until death" or did yours include if 12 1/2 years of faithfulness are achieved, affairs are aok. Telling someone to "fix themselves" isn't advice? Look at your attitude. I suggested IC (individual counseling).


Many people here are HONESTLY looking for answers and examples of ways they can better themselves and their marriages. Next time, why don't you just tell a 5-year-old child to go outside and ride a bike for the first time, without demonstrating to him how it is to be done, and without holding on to the seat to steady him while he takes those first wobbly pedals down the road. Gee, now wouldn't that be setting him up for failure?? How constructive!


Now remind me again, how many years have you been married? Have you never heard of counseling? You say you're a Christian. The Bible is full of advice on marriage. Do you read it? Has your pastor or Sunday school teacher never had any lessons on marriage? Do the bookstores or libraries in your area carry no books on marriage? Noone here can hold your hand and make the counseling appointment for you. There's no majic pill just a great deal of work that it seems you're unable to grasp. Your marriage can't recover as long as you are still in contact with your friend, the OM.


You might want to consider ignoring my posts as each response you make points out the fact further that you have much to do as far as maturity goes.

Crystal - Did you get all of your housework done? Are you ready for the new job tomorrow? Good luck with it.

moveforward,

Do I want to stay married to H?? That's the $64k question these days. I honestly don't know. I know for a FACT that I don't want to be married to the man I've been married to for the last 13 years. Will the new and improved TD be different?? I don't know. He does seem to be making progress, but the real test will be when he gets his new job as an atty. If he goes back to his old ways, I don't think I'll be able to make it through, which is one reason I don't want to relocate. His job has always taken 1st priority...and that can't continue. My fear is that his desire to climb the ladder to greater wealth and status will mean that he'll once again neglect the family.

Contact with OM? Yes, I have...not in a week or more, and I'm planning to write a NC email tonight, not because he is any threat to my M at all, but because TD wants me to stop talking to him. I guess it's my little way to show TD that I really am trying to work on the M. And, in case you're not terribly familiar with our story, the OM is a man that TD sent me out to have SF with (during "swinging.") TD got upset when my emotions took over and it was no longer just physical. Go figure...I would think that many guys find EAs less hurtful than PAs, although I could be VERY mistaken on that one. It was a VERY screwy situation that lead to the A...and I know that my H didn't MAKE me do it, but he did OK the physical aspect for a time (had even OK'd an overnight in a hotel with the OM...which never happened, thank goodness).

Crystal

Crystal - Can you do a regular no contact letter that your husband can read and send?

Hi Crystal,
Thanks for responding.

The swinging thing makes me curious. I did not expose to OWH's because they are swingers. I didn't think he would care. Oh, well, that is neither her nor there in regards to your situation.

It seems as a no contact letter is a good thing for you to do if you mean it. Not only will it hold you accountable, it also shows TD that you are respecting your marriage. I see that as a good thing because even if the marriage is not something you want to continue it is something to which you have a commitment.

You say you don't want to move. To me, moving would be like a fresh start. No one would know you had struggled in your marriage unless you choose to tell them. No one would know about the swinging. It would be a new start with new friends and new opportunities to grow together.

Granted, you both need boundries as to what comes first in your relationship. You have to be careful for what you ask for. The reason I say that is it is a balance. If financial support is one of your biggies, then he may feel he has to devote more time to work. Which is going to cause trouble.

This is where communication really comes in. I'm sure since you have been on MB so long, you have read HN/HN. Are you utilizing the principles in there?

I know you are in MC, are you in IC as well? I nnow some people think IC may not be a good thing, but I wonder if there are not some issues aside from the marriage and the swinging that you need to work through. I am not being judgemntal, but I know most of us have issues we need to deal with.

I really do hope the best for you, Crystal. I hope that you and TD can learn to communicate. http://www.retrouvaille.org/

I understand these are wonderful in restoring relationships by developing communication skills.

Blessings