Believer,

Housework?? Hmmmmm.... Let's just say that I hope we're not having any company coming over this week. And, is cleanliness REALLY next to Godliness? If so, I'm in DEEP trouble! LOL

Crystal

Believer,

About the NC letter. I will write it, have TD read it, approve it or make necessary changes, and then he can watch me email it. The OM's fiancee does NOT know about me. I could tell her, but I honestly don't want to break her heart, as she's also suffering from depression. I know, maybe that's "fog" speaking...but I think it's just a bit of compassion. OM has assured me that he won't do this again...and given the way I taught him his lesson, I have to believe him on that one! He's just lucky I'm not some psycho internet chick stalking him. LOL

Crystal

I got my whole house clean this weekend. Organized the cupboards, did the windows inside and out, cleaned the oven and refrigerator, walls, floors, etc., in between posting.

But I don't have three kids at home.

The NC email sounds good.

Hope all goes well with your job tomorrow. I think it will be good for you. Also hope your husband pitches in some around the house.

Moveforward,

Writing the NC letter really isn't a big deal for me. I'm not in love with OM at all. Most of the reason I haven't agreed to stop contacting OM is out of spite. I know that sounds childish and terrible of me. I guess I was just trying to make TD mad. I'd pretty much given up on the M, so what did I have to lose in defying him?? Perhaps I was trying to assert some control over my life that I felt I'd given up for so long to TD. It was wrong...I get it, so I don't need to be yelled at from any MBs out there. LOL I had written a NC letter over the summer, but when I got really down, I started talking to him by phone every once in a while. I finally broke off contact with OM at the end of July, but contacted him again in late September as TD's schedule with school and work got hectic again, and he fell back into many of his old behaviors and I was just so sad. I know that's not an excuse.... Oh, and just for the record, there was no PA with OM after late June, not that it really makes a difference I guess.

The reason I don't want to move, at least not now, is because right now I'm really not sure that TD can keep this up. We're REALLY new in our second round of recovery. I told him I wanted a divorce right before Christmas, and he didn't "GET" that he's got a lot of work to do on himself as well until he talked to our pastor and did a lot of praying (maybe 1 1/2 weeks ago). Needless to say, his new behaviors are so fresh that they're not "habits" yet. And right now his job situation is in limbo. He just graduated law school, and right now is continuing working as an engineer and studying for the bar exam. When he gets an atty job, I'm afraid all of these new behaviors will go right out the window.

As far as being a good provider goes...he already makes good money, and as an atty he should make quite a bit more. It's if he feels the need to jump on the "partner track" that will REALLY pack on the hours...or if he winds up working for one of the GIANT "sweat shop" firms that work their young associates to death (sometimes they wind up SLEEPING at the office).

I'm going through HN/HN again, as time permits. I've read much of it plus LBs...and I think we have How To Build an Affair-Proof Marriage (but I'm not certain). Also, I'm going to read a book called "Choosing Forgiveness" by John & Paula Sandford. TD just went through it and believes he really has forgiven me for the A.

I was in IC, and I'm currently seeing a psychiatrist and am on 2 anti-depressants. I got a little angry with the IC as she was also seeing TD and basically she told him to "Plan B" me if I wanted to leave anyway...and there's no way in heck I was going to let him kick me out of my own house, especially since I was NOT in the midst of the A.

Getting advice from most of you is so helpful. Of course there are those on the board...not mentioning any names...whom I could do without. I like it when people here show me that my perspective may be skewed at times. It's helpful to see things through someone else's eyes.

Thanks,
Crystal

Believer,

Pitches in SOME??? LOL Since I told him that "domestic support" is one of my BIG ENs, he's been gathering dirty laundry, switching out loads, has done some ironing (I still fold MOST of the clothes), cleans the kitchen in the morning before work, often loads dishes at night, and is now helping motivate the kids to get off of their butts and help too. Normally I'd take care of ALL of that myself, and I have for years, but the depression has gotten me to the point that I just don't have the desire or energy to do ANY of that. I'm really hoping that the new job will perk me up some and give me something to look forward to everyday. Oh, and here's a cute thing he does...he sets out a clean bowl, spoon, box of Wheaties and container of raisins every morning for me...and now he even sets out my FAVORITE bowl and favorite spoon. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Thanks for your support. Can you come and clean my house too...since yours is already clean?? LOL

Crystal

Jph,

Since you didn't even get the fact that the voting analogy had NOTHING to do with your actual voting habits, I really feel it would be a waste of my time to respond to your post adequately. You know, there was a time in my life when I would bend over backwards to make sure that I wasn't misunderstood by someone and that they liked me. But, I guess I've "grown up" some since then, because I honestly don't care WHAT you think of me! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Crystal

Crystal - Now if you can just get him to fold the laundry too.........

hi Crystal,
Another book you might want to pick up is called Captivating. Buy TD Wild at Heart. They were written by a husband and wife team.

Reading your earlier posts, I see some things from your past that still effect you- I know you say they don't but for them to come out in a discussion, they do. I sympathize because some of the same kinds of things have come out in my IC sessions. The books Captivating, Do You Think I'm Beautiful, and The Hiddend Hurts of a Woman's Heart really helped me see those and put them in perspective and in their place in the past. That really freed me to work through the issues in my present.

I hope your new job is very good for you. I'd like to say something that I hope you don't take in a wrong way. I would say this to a close friend going through something like this. In fact, although I am a BS and not a FWS, it still applies to me.

Right now you are are vulnerable. You might not feel that TD is doing all he could do to meet your needs. You've said you are not certain that you want to stay in the marriage. I pray that you will guard your heart as you start your new job and that you will especially guard it against new relationships with men in the workplace. Do not get defensive, I say this out of nothing but concern for you and your relationship. Guard your heart.

Believer,

I saw your post on TD's thread, and I felt I needed to respond.



This is a H U G E fear of mine. He's told me that it's the "depression talking," that all or nothing, black or white notion. Or that it's just my pessimism. I am really afraid that he doesn't have a clue what our life is really going to be like. He promised me before he started law school that he would still be able to make "plenty of time" for me and the kids. I saw how well THAT went. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> I don't think I'm cut out to be an atty's wife. The work-a-holic lifestyle is NOT what I signed on for 13 years when I married him (of course I didn't sign on for moving all over the country either). He was a sophomore engineering student in college when we got married. How was I supposed to know that, not only would he eventually want to change careers, but that he'd choose an even MORE time conusuming one...oh, and did he ever mention that his ultimate goal is to become a judge???

Ugh!!!

Crystal

Well, he says that it is better in Texas for attorneys......

When my sister first got out of school and was working (not a partner yet) she had a 16 year old daughter. I used to call sis in the evening and she was NEVER there. Luckily my niece's father was available for her, but she spent a lot of time alone.

I don't want to discourage you, Crystal, but I know the hours are long.

Oh please... Your slam by assuming my community involvement and it's correlation to my advise that you obviously didn't comprehend was idiotic. You can't defend it because it's indefensible.

I feel sorry for your children.

Moveforward,

I hear EXACTLY what you're saying about guarding my heart. Right now I am INCREDIBLY VULNERABLE, and I realize that. Luckily, I'll be working in a very small company with fewer than 15 employees, and only 6-8 of them are guys...most are fresh out of college and WAY too young to attract anything more than a glance from me. LOL

Crystal

Believer,

I know the hours are long and hard, and I don't think TD "gets" that yet.

What's amazing is that my pessism/realism about what his years in law school would look like (working FT job + taking 10-12 credits/sememster + taking credits in summers) was correct; it was EXACTLY what I said it would be, and VERY little like the rosey picture he'd painted when trying to "sell" me on the idea.

My fear is that my picture of his career as an attorney will again be more correct than his. It's the trouble of a "realist" being married to a dreamer...he doesn't always believe my "balance."

Crystal

To Jph (and anyone else from Rio Linda),

Perhaps learning the definition of the word "analogy" might do you some good:

analogy-- n 1: an inference that if things agree in some respects they probably agree in others 2: drawing a comparison in order to show a similarity in some respect; "the operation of a computer presents an interesting analogy to the working of the brain"; "the models show by analogy how matter is built up"
(definition provided by www.dictionary.com)

Now, after getting a little lesson on the MEANING of the word, perhaps you'll see that you were not meant to infer a negative attack on your "community involvement." What you were doing in your post was not giving CONSTRUCTIVE advice. Merely saying "grow up" or "get into IC" is about as constructive as someone who complains about the government and how politicians are doing things wrong, yet has NO CONSTRUCTIVE suggestions of their own as to how it might be fixed. Are you getting this yet???

To reiterate...other posters aren't encouraging me to leave nor are they taking my side; however, they are giving me constructive advice as to how I can go about changing in order to fix the M.

And, for the record, the only one who's "idiotic" here is...well...hmmmm, since my teachers told me if I couldn't say something nice, not to say anything at all, I guess I'll stop here.

Crystal

Never mind

KiwiJ...thank you.

Crystal...dear I know what an analogy is. My point your analogy was silly. Right, my advice was to grow up and get IC. The problem was it hit a nerve and you couldn't handle it. Your reaction reminded me of the reaction that your mother had when you wouldn't do as she wanted. "If what you're saying is not what I want to hear then I'll make you my enemy."

Oh, jph, you obviously read it before I removed it.

After I'd posted it didn't seem very helpful and I don't want to get in a war of words.

Kiwi...
Nobody wants to hear that they need to grow up. I didn't when my dear Dad said the same thing to me. Now I'm very grateful that he made me think about what I was doing, how much it was hurting other people and reflecting on my character.

Sometimes it takes people sticking their neck out and get blasted to help others. At times I grow weary of people who want to enable destructive behavior. What gets me is when people post.."I admire your courage for sharing your feelings.." What courage? Rarely does anyone here really know another poster. It could be our neighbors and we wouldn't know it.

Some of the best advice I've received in my lifetime stung at first...but I learned...

Crystal,

I do have some constructive (but free) advice. I am not attacking you, I am trying to help you. From what I've read, you seem to be taking all the hurt & disappointment that you've felt since you were a young girl and projected it onto your H. You also seem to blame your H for not only failing to meet your needs during your M, but for not making up for all the hurts & diappointments in your life leading up to your M.

It's easy to blame your M and your H for your unhappiness, but if you persist in this way of thinking you will discover that your M and your H are not real cause of your unhappiness & restlessness. Leaving your M and finding a new relationship will not make you any happier in the long-run. In fact, it will probably make you less happy, plus you will most likely be burdened with guilt and regret.

So, what do you do? Here are my suggestions:

(1) stop focusing on what your H did wrong in the past or isn't doing right today (seriously, when you start thinking negative thoughts about your H, stop them and think of something positive about your H and your M)

(2) start focusing on the good things about your H and your M - think back to when you first fell in love and make a list of those initial reasons - those reasons are probably still there, even if they have been buried these last few years

(3) consider how much of these negative feelings really stem from your H's actions versus the past hurt you experienced from other people; then put what your H did in perspective, try to understand, and open your heart to forgivenss (I don't know what he did, so I'm not attacking him here, just trying to deal with things from your point of view)

(4) think of things you can do to make the M and your R with your H better, regardless of the past or anything he does or is doing -- just focus on your actions, your attitude and your responsibility to do everything you can to make things better

(5) consider individual counseling, but make sure you are working with a counselor who is pro-M even if you are just there for individual counseling; venting sessions about your H is the opposite of #1 and a good IC who is helping you to restore your M will not encourage that

(6) make peace with the past & find real happiness --- there's a quote, which I can't remember exactly now, but the general point is that true happiness only comes from doing the right thing (meaning the ethical thing, not the thing that feels good or that we want to be right), and I think that is true based on my own experiences and observations of others (I think it's especially true when it comes to As and M)

hope that helps - I am really not attacking you - good luck

Crystal

This book is not bad - I'll let you know up front that it is from a catholic standpoint - not too churchy - but the steps are the same I think for all.

How to Forgive
A Step-by-Step Guide
John Monbourquette
ISBN-10: 0-86716-427-1
Price: $13.95

I did have the 12 steps from my MC/IC who had the book but I have lost the list & notes ...think I may have thrown it out on a big clean up so sorry about that.

Anyway it takes you through the 12 steps and how to get them to work for you. You can use it with any IC who is decent at their job ... I found it extremely helpful and perhaps after you have read it you may want to let your H read it too.
Those of us who have difficulty or refuse to forgive may have false notions of what forgiveness is about.

Monbourquette tells us that forgiveness is not forgetting. It is not denial. Forgiveness takes more than willpower and cannot be given on command. Forgiveness does not mean giving up our rights or excusing the offender. Finally, forgiveness does not demonstrate moral superiority, and it certainly doesn’t mean just leaving it up to God (as in “Only God can forgive”). The chapter develops each of the above incorrect ideas.
it helped me as I said. Maybe it can help you & your H

All the best.