At first she said that visiting this site was too sad for her. Recentely I forwarded her "A Recovery Guide for WW"s" from Dorry's post. Now she says that this site is too "one sided". I tried to explain to her that this site was pro marriage, not pro A, and that there is never justification for an A. She just gets upset when I talk about this stuff, and she doesn't want to talk. Any ideas?

Any Ideas???

She's obviously just out of her A still right? And she hasn't really processed what she has done...she is like a great many of FWW's.

When she is ready - she will come. There is a thread called FWW's - recoverying, changing, growing - she may find more she can relate to in there.

wanted to add - no one ever wants it to be thier fault - or they are willing to take a bit of the blame - but taking the whole responsibility of the A, for most woman - is VERY painful and very hard - after all - we have convinced ourselves for years we have been great wives - and we have been neglected, or ignored - that somehow - it's your fault...so when we come out - and we realize it's not YOUR fault - it's very hard to accept. We still for the first many months rationalize - that no one understands our situation - that no one is on our side - after all - we have a side - this isn't ALL our fault...alot of us clam up and dont want to talk about it - why - because it's TOO painful - and the BS keeps wanting to talk and we just get more hurt and more hurt - as we dont want to have to look at OURSELVES and take more RESPONSIBILTY - isn't it enough that we are sorry?

After many months, some FWW's do start to be able to look at it differently - like MANY of the FWW's on here...it's NOT a fun or easy ride though. And it's terrifying...

She knows where we are now - maybe forward that thread to her and leave it at that.

SecondBest, I can see by your screen name how you feel. Like most BS here.

My STBX was the same. Dorry may have a good point, and is probably accurate.

In my STBX issue, well she still thinks she is blameless. She says it's her fault, but then blames me the very next second. She doesn't want to look in the mirror, doesn't like to hear anything that doesn't justify her A. Her A is still "special".

But I think there are so many FWW here with such committment, that your FWW would be in good company. She'd be protected, but also get an eye opening.

Plus, if your FWW came here. I think it would speed recovery. Just the action of her coming her would probably put some units in your Love Bank.

Keep your chin up.

Yes Tom my FWW thinks that her relationship with OM was very special, and loves him deeply. I know that in some ways she feels fortunate to have had the 1 1/2 years experiences with OM; "No one sees her side".

Thanks Dorry. Originally I started questioning FWW about a year ago. She denied anything but "good friendship with OM" and even told me that she could "never do that to me". Over many months she would fabricate many lies and twist facts around to make me look like the bad one. 3 1/2 months ago, 10/11/05, I confronted FWW with evidence and facts; she admitted the more than 1 1/2 year A with one of her supervisors, a M man himself.

Although she has not been physical with OM since D-day, she continues to work with him, and does not think there is anything wrong with doing so. I have exposed the A to OMW and their employer.

FWW is having a difficult time letting go of feelings for OM, she is "in love with him". She also says that he is working on his M with his wife, and probbly will not have any chance of being with him. She does not know if she wants to be M to me. She says "part of me wants to go and part of me wants to stay".

Shouldn't approx one year (3 1/2 months since D-day) be long enough for her to know what she wants?

Are you continuing to monitor for no "dates"? Are you still in contact with OMW? If so, what does she say about the state of her M? Out of curiosity, what was their employer's reaction to exposure?


3 1/2 decades won't be enough while she remains in contact with OM...until there is NC she CAN NOT withdraw from him...doesn't matter how he treats her, she's still getting her fix. Bad Crack is better than no Crack to an addict...this is how you must view her right now...

Below is a letter written by Trueheart meant to be read by WSes...perhaps you might get her to read it...sometimes you never know what it will take to penetrate the fog. We would welcome her here and truly understand what she is going through...I hope she decides to join us, and I wish you the very best. I am so sorry that this is happening in your life... Secondbest1, consider a name change, what your name says could NOT be farther from the truth, I really, really want you to KNOW that and internalize it...

Best,

Mrs. Wondering



TRUEHEART'S LETTER


Thank you for taking the time and effort to read this letter. I am writing this in hopes that your BS has brought you here in order that you might understand you are not alone in your thoughts and feelings. It is intended to give you a measure of comfort and hope that you can feel safe as you come out the fog that has enveloped you so tightly over the past weeks, months, or years.

I do not know any of you by name, nor do I know of all the details or circumstances surrounding your life, or your affair(s). What I do know is that we share two very important things in our lives and that makes us somewhat connected as a WS. I am hoping that I can help you come back to the light, so that you can come back to the light that has, for so long, shielded you with that dense fog you may still be in.

The first thing that we share is the love of a person that totally, completely, and unconditionally stands by our side. Through thick and thin, for better or worse, in our darkest hours, we have someone that has always believed in us, and still does. They have put up with our lies, our anger, our accusations, and maybe in some cases verbal and/or physical abusiveness. They have watched us trash the things they believed in more than anything in the world...our marriage, our vows, our trust and our love. In spite of it all, they see in us their hopes, their dreams, and their futures. They can't, nor do they want to, see themselves without us for the rest of their lives. They accept our imperfections and our infidelity. They have continued to believe in us and want to help us right the ship and stay the course. They are willing to forgive us, grant us our mistakes, and come home to rebuild that life and make it better. They know they are not perfect, as well. They know they have made mistakes. They need us to open up, talk to them and give them answers so that they can learn, heal, and help repair the damage. They will accept their responsibility in these things. Can you? We, most of us, also have children that look at us, and see only the love of a Mom or a Dad. They don't see us as imperfect, scared, or angry. They see us as a shelter, a safe haven where they can laugh, cry, hurt, be silly or serious, and tell us their fears or fantasies. We are their safety net when they fall. They look to us for answers in life, no matter how big or small the answers are. Our life changed, no matter how much we didn't want it to when we helped create that life. We owe our children the best chance to learn from us. We owe them our unconditional, total, and complete love, so that they can start on the journey with as few bumps and bruises as possible. They look to you for truth in their lives. To deny them that chance, is a travesty. You took an oath, in your heart and mind, to protect and defend and teach YOUR child, as soon as they were created. So, you see, you have people in your life that believe in you, love you, accept you, want you, need you, cherish you, and the list goes on and on.

I know for a fact, that many of you, when with the OP, bad mouth your spouse. You tell the OP how they do all the right things, fill you up, make you feel alive, do all the things your spouse does not, or used to do. You tell this person they are everything you ever wanted. They arouse you, they make you happy...interesting how you told your spouse that at one time too. And, the truth is, if you were to search your heart, you are not letting them do that now. They want to, they beg you to let them try...you justify your A, by telling them "I just don't feel that for you anymore", "I don't know if I want to be married anymore", "I don't know what I want", and a myriad of other flimsy reasons and excuses to buy time to spend with the OP. You give justifications that are so superficial they can't hold water. We even search our minds to think of everything that our spouse ever did, no matter how insignificant, how long ago it was, in order to make us feel better about cheating. We can find any reason to blame our spouse for US deciding and making a conscious choice to cheat and find a reason to say it is ok. What we should be doing is finding every reason for our BS to forgive us. We should be finding every reason to stay together, to come home, to make it right, to be a family...loving and supportive, forgiving and trusting. And you know what? Those reasons are there...everyday...the smile, the laugh, the tears, the love....they are there each and everyday!! Just look!!!

The second thing we share is the fact that we are all weak!! I know full well the pain, anger, frustration, fear, embarrassment, passion, fun, laughter, love, fear, and all the rest of the wide range of emotions of having an A. I know what is like to have that OP fill up your senses...so full and so fast you wonder how you ever made it without them. The sex is great, the passion is overwhelming, you can't wait to see them, touch them, hear them...all the while drifting further and further from your marriage...lost in the fog. NO matter how we justify it, that other person...is a cheater, as well. They know we are married and they choose to cheat with us. And in many cases, probably have before, and have told the other person they are with, all the same, exact things they tell us. "You are my soulmate" "you are the only one for me" etc etc. We have heard em all and said em all. We have been told they can make us happy "for the rest of our lives". WE have been so blinded by it all, that we give up family and friends we have had for years, in order for this OP to feel safe with us and convince them how we feel. We take all the energies that we don't use at home, and give them to someone "new". We spend money, time, and energy to build something with someone exciting, instead of spending that with someone that knows us and truly loves us. You see, the truth is, that we, both members of the affair, are very good at one thing....telling each other exactly what we want to hear. We put together elaborate speeches, write poetry, find mushy cards, send the "perfect" gifts, say the right things...all for this other person. Both of us continue to hone our "cheating" skills to the point of perfection. What ever happened to doing that for your spouse, instead of leaving them at the side of the road with a flat tire? We have derailed their entire life and emotionally checked out...in order to make us feel better about the affair. That simply isn't right. We took years to build something. We may have taken several years to weaken the foundation of it. But in one simple night of lust, and that is what it is, lust, we tried to destroy it. If we truly "loved" this person, if we truly believed what we were doing is right, true, and good, there would be no indecision on our part. There would be no hesitancy at all. The bottom line is that, you can trust the person you are cheating with less than you can trust yourself. It is a proven fact that only 25% of all affairs ever make it. Deep down in your heart, you still love your spouse, and you know it. You don't want to give up the excitement and passion you have found. The truth is that your marriage will never again go back to what it was. The blind faith in each other is gone....it is replaced with doubt and fear. The wonderful thing is that you now have a chance to "rediscover" your spouse, your marriage, and your family. It is not as hard as you may think, but will take some dedication on your part. But the beauty of the whole thing is you will be stronger and more in love than you ever thought you could be. You create new memories, new routines, a new life. You re-commit, reinvest your time and energies in that which truly loves you. The truth is most affairs end when the OP either gets what they thought they needed from you, and even more of them end when the OP finds another WS. Oddly enough, you weren't enough for them either. In the end you are left with no loving spouse, no children, no family, no friends.....and your OP that was so steadfastly dedicated to you is off romping with "the love of their life". I know from whence I speak, my friends. I know of the pain, the sorrow, the hurt, the look in my children's eyes when I left the house. I hear the sounds of my W crying, begging, pleading, and hurting. I now see what a fool I was. I now spend everyday, more happy than I ever thought I could be. If the world were to end tomorrow, she would know I loved her as no other. No, she won't ever forget about the A, and along the way, there will be things that will trigger her mind, but, she has forgiven. You need to talk to your spouse to help them. YOU are the only one that can help them. They need you, much more now than ever before. You have to swallow that pride of yours, for them to heal. You have to open your life up to them, and hide nothing. You have to make it about them. The affair was making it about you, so now you owe it to them, no matter how embarrassed you are, no matter how much you don't wnat to talk about it, to make it about them. Their peace of mind, their feelings are all that matter. They know, from being here, what they need to do in order to help meet your needs. It is now up to you, to learn what you need to do in order to meet theirs. And make no mistake about it, it will be hard work, but it is oh so worth it!! This person you married, is willing to work with you in order to show you the love you deserve!! Are you willing to work to show them how much you truly love them?? By being here, at Marriage Builders, they have shown that they are willing to adopt the principles that it takes to put their marriage back together. They have pledged their love, and even their support, to your recovery, as well as theirs. They have accepted the crumbs you have offered them, while knowing full well you were at the buffet with the other person in your life. You have one of the strongest, most committed, most wonderful, loving, and caring people in the world on your side. Don't expect them not be angry from time to time. Don't expect them to be perfect, let you off the hook, and not talk about it with you. They need and want to understand you and all the things surrounding what happened. It is part of the healing process. What you can expect is love, honesty, and the rebuilding of your marriage. They know what it takes to make things work now. They also know that they, as well as you, have to be stronger than ever before in their life, if this is going to work. That is why they are still here...they understand. They even know, that you may backslide in the beginning, but are willing to deal with that, in order to preserve and protect that which they believe in ......YOU. I implore you, WS, burn off the fog. See the sand that is your foundation for the affair. There is no solid basis for this relationship..it is all smoke and mirrors that reflects this "love" you have found. Run, do not walk, back home and give your marriage all the energy, gifts, poems, cards, and love that you have given to the affair. The results are remarkable. But you have to be willing to be honest with yourself, first of all. You have to admit there is a problem, and you have to be willing to fix it, with your spouse, a counselor, whatever or whoever it takes to fix it. You have to be willing to want to be there in mind, body, and spirit. You will find a love more wonderful than anything you knew before.

I hope this helps, in some way, to show you what life can be after an affair. I know that I am blessed with the most wonderful person. I was given the opportunity to feel what life was like without her, and it was not what I wanted. I found the answers I sought...I found them both here, and in her arms. I can only hope, that in some small way, you find the same thing, and that I helped the fog to lift. If you ever wish to talk to someone who understands what we WS go through, then feel free to write [email]me...trueheart42@hotmail.com.[/email] There is a path back home. You need only choose it! Keep the faith!

*Out of our greatest fears, come our bravest deeds!*

Trueheart

SecondBest, you do realize that this is hopeless as long as she continues to see the OM? Like Mrs W said, she will never get to the point where she wants to work on the marriage until contact ends. What you are doing is like sending an alcoholic in the bar every day, giving him a drink, and wondering why he isn't recovering. Until she leaves the job and ends contact, there is nothing to do.

For me, refusing to end contact with the OP would be a deal breaker just because I have seen what happens when contact continues. When contact continues like this, the affair is on-again, off-again for years, leaving you to die a death of a thousand cuts. You will never recover and your marriage will never recover. This is why Harley is "ADAMANT" that all contact ends FOREVER.

My suggestion is to take care of first things first.

Ok, NC will be my first priority. Actually I have been in contact with their employer's HR department, this employer is a very large nation wide corporation. They seemed to take the news of the A very seriously, as it is between Mgmt and hourly employees, but I have yet to see any outcome from the exposure.

Second...

Well, Melody is the resident exposure expert around here, so it would be interesting to see what she says...perhaps writing a letter asking HR what they plan to do about this would be in order...again, I defer to Mel...bet she'll be around soon...

Yes...NC is your number one priority...are you in contact with OMW? Comparing notes with her would be good I believe...

Mrs. Wondering

OMW does not want to talk to me as it is too stressful for her.

Second...

Ok, but if you do find that there have been "dates" or additional contact other than work, it is important for you to give that info to OMW.

Here is a letter that another poster, Gramn, sent to the YMCA when his wife was having an affair with the local chapter CEO there..."Y Guy" was fired from his job due to this type exposure. I also noticed that in that same thread someone mentioned contacting the media if the Y didn't respond properly...interesting thought since your wife works for a nationwide company...

Mrs. W


Anyway, here's the letter...


To NAME

I am shocked and appalled at what I have discovered has been taking place at the Y located at XXXXXXX in XXXXXXXXXX, Ohio.

Recently, I discovered that my wife WW, a member of that Y, is having an affair with the CEO, YGUY.

I was told several days ago that YGUY & his wife announced that they are separating. This is due to my exposure of the affair on Monday (6-13-05), which had been taking place for some time before this recent decision to leave their marriage. This in no way constitutes a reason for YGUY to continue his illicit relationship with my wife.

I expect you to formally reprimand YGUY and order him to have no further contact with my wife or to consider terminating his employment.

I was under the impression that the YMCA was a Christian-based establishment and that your employees had that standard to uphold. Their mission is to "Build strong kids, STRONG FAMILIES, and Strong communities. I dont think YGUY upheld that mission very well. I have been paying for my wife's membership for over a year, spending over $800 in dues, classes, child care and court costs, and had been considering a membership for myself. I cannot explain the disappointment I am feeling at seeing how wrong I was.

I wish this matter investigated and resolved immediately to my satisfaction, and I ask that you contact me regarding this in the next week. Thank you.

Sincerely,