Found out about my wife's affair about 4 weeks ago when I saw an text message she sent from her cell phone. Confronted her about TWO weeks later. Affair had been going on for well over 2 years! Got Dr. Harley's book and we started seeing a therapist, but not together yet.

She comitted to end all contact with the OP. I still cannot help myself from snooping. I realize it will take a while for her to get over her feelings for him, but I asked her a couple weeks ago to get rid of all physical reminders of the affair. This morning I found several notes & cards which was very painful. I confronted her about it and she became totally out of control, claiming she had to end this affair on her terms and these things meant nothing to her.

So was I wrong in asking her to get rid of the reminders? My thinking is it is hard enough to get over the pain of seperation from the OP without being reminded. But then again what do I know, as I could not even detect the affair while it was going on...

WhatDoIDoNow,

Welcome to MB. We're glad you're here. If you've been lurking you probably know that GQII moves a lot faster and has a lot more traffic than these other boards.

No, you are not wrong to ask her get rid of all reminders of the affair - these aren't her High School Junior Prom pictures we're talking about. She doesn't need to keep these remembrances for posterity.

Her defensiveness makes me nervous.

It is always your right (and responsibility) to sneakily snoop. Catching the FWS telling the truth builds trust, and catching them in a lie tells you what you need to know.

Have you read the things on this site about withdrawal and what to expect? She will probably need some help with it if she is truly in NC after 2 years in the A.

MSA

Withdrawal - by Suzet*

’FOG’ AND WITHDRAWAL

In my experience as a FWW, it’s possible for ‘fog’ to slip back from time to time during the withdrawal period, especially during early, intense withdrawal. Often early withdrawal and the ‘fog’ go hand in hand and it will be normal for your FWS to have a ‘foggy’ thinking pattern during this stage. The 'fog' lifts gradually as the withdrawal lessens and it will get better with time and patience.

An A IS an addiction and it does affect the brain chemistry of a WS/FWS. It is a feedback system where some behavior causes good feelings (chemicals) to be released and gradually you become dependent on those feelings. So thinking of the OP is sort of self-medicating when the FWS feels a little down.

It can take weeks to months for this to pass and that’s why No Contact is so hard because some of the residual feelings and response linger for a long time. With time, the "feelings" attached to remembering the OP will fade.

It has been suggested and even done that when the FWS start to really think of OP, that they call or talk with the BS. This behavior will start to replace one set of feelings and memories for another, sort of like quitting smoking. This is something you can discuss with your FWS.

LENGTH OF WITHDRAWAL AND EFFECT OF WIHTDRAWAL ON THE FWS

Withdrawal is not the same for each person and it affects each person differently. For some people, withdrawal is very long and intense, and some people don’t experience any withdrawal at all (no withdrawal is not very common, but it does happen to some FWS’s).

I believe the length and intensity of withdrawal depends on many factors such as the length and intensity of the A and the emotional involvement; the way the A ended and if there is still unresolved issues; personality; ‘sensitivity’ level of the WS etc. A good estimation of the time of withdrawal can be the length of the A. According to Dr Harley (see quote beneath) the most intense symptoms of withdrawal usually last only about three weeks, but in some cases they can linger for six months or longer before they start to fade. As I’ve said, it’s not the same for each person and every situation is different.

I think the time of withdrawal also depends if the WS were friends with the OP before it progressed to an A. It’s more difficult to recover from an A where it started out as friendship comparing to a situation where people start the A from the beginning (like a ONS) and have not yet get emotionally connected and learned to care for the OP.

IMO it also depends if the FWS suffers from depression or any other mental/psychiatric disorders. In my situation, ‘real’ recovery from my withdrawal started after I received medical help for OCD (Obsessive-Compulsive-Disorder) with associated depression and anxiety. I also had unresolved issues regarding my childhood and myself at the time and I believe those things also had an influence on my personal recovery.


Quote:
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From Dr Harley’s Q & A column:

Withdrawal is the emotional reaction to the loss of something that gives great pleasure. It's similar to the feelings an alcoholic has when he makes a commitment never to drink again. It's also similar to the grief that comes from the loss of a loved one. A lover is like alcohol and like a loved one. Not only do unfaithful spouses miss what it was their lovers did, meeting important emotional needs, but they also miss the person they had come to love.


Our most common emotions are anger, anxiety and depression. Symptoms of withdrawal usually include all of these in a very intense form. I usually suggest that anti-depressant medication be used to help alleviate these symptoms. While the most intense symptoms of withdrawal usually last only about three weeks, in some cases they can linger for six months or longer before they start to fade.


It is extremely likely that a commitment to remain separated from a lover will be broken unless extreme measures are taken to avoid it. That's because the emotional reaction of withdrawal is so painful. Honesty is an extremely important element in reconciliation, and it should be understood that if the unfaithful spouse ever sees or communicates with the lover, he or she should immediately tell the spouse that it happened. They should then agree on a plan that would prevent a recurrence of contact in the future. But as soon as any contact is made, it throws the unfaithful spouse back to the beginning of withdrawal, and the time it takes to overcome the feelings of grief begins all over again.


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HOW TO ACT AND HELP THE FWS GOING THROUGH WITHDRAWAL

It’s important for your FWS to let his/her feelings out if she/he wants to heal. Bottling up and repressing of issues will eventually lead to depression. I’ve received the help from a wonderful, woman, Christian Counselor (who have also became a great friend and confidant of mine), but in spite of this I’ve developed depression and was put on anti-depressants. It will help if your FWS goes to a professional, outside, trusting, Christian person like an IC or pastor if necessary. If he/she starts developing depression, medication can be very helpful... The medication really helped me tremendously during the withdrawal period.

A MC is very valuable for the recovery of a M, but many times the help of an individual counselor (IC) or any other professional, outside person (like a pastor), can be very helpful too. The MC can be used to have one-on-one sessions with both the BS and FWS. An outside person is not emotionally involved and can help with personal recovery and to get feelings out. The IC can also address other personal issues the FWS or BS may have. I believe personal recovery and marital recovery goes hand in hand and sometimes it’s necessary to address personal issues first. A FWS in withdrawal don’t always have the courage to be totally honest and open in front of the BS about their feelings (out of fear that they will hurt the BS again) and this is the other reason why it’s important for the FWS to find a trusting outside person they can talk to.

It will also help if your FWS can read and post here. It will help him/her to get his/her feelings out. Support and help from experienced members here will also help him/her through this difficult time. While I was in early withdrawal, these boards also helped to clear my ‘fog’. Although I was still in withdrawal, these boards helped me realize that my ‘bond’ with OM wasn’t such a special and unique ‘friendship’, but in fact a very sinful and damaging emotional betrayal towards my dear H.

Here is some suggestion on how to help & support your FWS through withdrawal:

1. Be your FWS’s greatest friend and confidant. Encourage him/her to confide in you and create an environment & atmosphere that will allow him/her to feel safe and secure to reveal his/her innermost feelings to you. Maybe you can start to be honest with him/her about you innermost thoughts and feelings and in the process encourage him/her to open up towards you too without the fear that you will Love Bursting or criticize or judge him/her.

2. Be you FWS’s ‘sounding board’ during this difficult time. Whenever possible and whenever you feel strong enough, listen to him/her with empathy, understanding & care. Continue to communicate your negative feelings too, but do it without being judgmental or love bursting. I know this is a lot to ask and will still be hard to do sometimes, but you WILL receive the benefits, especially when both of you are further in recovery!

3. Realize that your FWS will go through stages and feelings of guilt, self-rejection etc. During this times, try to let him feel accepted, tell her that she made a mistake, but has decided to turn away and follow the right path. During times like this remind her that he is forgiven by both you and God.

4. Assure and tell your FWS that he/she must feel free to talk to you whenever he/she needs it of feels like it. Encourage him/her to speak to you whenever he/she feels ‘down’. If it feels okay with you, ask him/her about his/her feelings and show interest and concern about his/her feelings out of your own. As a FWW it was very difficult to overcome my own pain, loss and grief and on the same time dealt with the pain I've caused my H. I know it would have meant the world to me if my H could ask me about my feelings, without me initiating the subject.

5. If you FWS needs to talk and you feel it’s not the right time for you at that moment, have the courage to tell him/her that you really want to listen to him/her, but on another time when you feel stronger and ready to listen. At the same time your FWS must also have the understanding and care to allow you to be honest towards her too. This is really a give and take situation. Your W must also encourage YOU to speak to HER whenever you need it or feels like it. On this way both of you will help each other to heal and recover. On this way you will become each other’s greatest friends and confidants.

6. On a practical note: Plan events (holidays, concerts, movie nights, whatever) in the near future to attend together. It helps to give the FWS (and the BS) something positive to look forward to.

Remember, the pain ‘deserved’ for your FWS is real, and the healing to some extent really takes time. So, be patient with both you and your S and give it time and patience.

Symptoms of the Wayward Spouse and Recognizing Withdrawal

WITHDRAWAL, RECOVERY AND MEETING THE NEEDS OF THE FWS

Recovery starts as soon as there is NC with the OP. During this time the BS is advised to only fill the EN’s the FWS ALLOWS the BS to meet. This is so because the FWS is in withdrawal and won’t be able to concentrate solely on the BS and relationship. However, this will get better with time and as the fog starts to clear. Give it time for at least 6 months. During this time, don’t put pressure on your FWS with too much ‘relationship talk’. Give him/her some time and in the meantime, continue with a good plan A. No LBers. Also concentrate on yourself and do things you enjoy. As soon as your FWS is ready, he/she will start to open up towards you and you will start to notice some efforts from him/her. But give it TIME and PATIENCE. BE there for him/her when she needs you (the guidelines I have posted above), but try to keep things uncomplicated, unemotional, light and pleasant.


Quote:
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From Dr Haley’s Q & A column:
As soon as a victimized spouse decides to stay married and struggle through reconciliation, he or she usually sets out to meet whatever needs the lover had been meeting. If it was sex, the spouse offers more and better sex. If it was affection, it's more affection. Both M.S. and R.J.'s wife were willing to do whatever it took to regain their wayward spouses' love.


But it didn't work for either of them. That's because both of their husbands were in withdrawal. They were both addicted to their lovers and separation from them caused them to suffer from depression. That, in turn, made it almost impossible for their spouses to meet their emotional needs. So all of that love and care that was being extended to them was being wasted. Until they would recover from withdrawal, the efforts of their wives to please them will be very disappointing.


Sometimes I tell spouses to just avoid each other until the withdrawal stage passes because all the effort to be kind and thoughtful is easily wasted until they start feeling better.


It's the stage of recovery after withdrawal that gives spouses the best opportunity to learn to meet each other's most important emotional needs and overcome Love Busters. Spouses should save their most tolerant mood for that stage, where they could both be receptive to each other's care. And that will be the subject of next week's column: Learning to meet each other's needs after an affair.


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Keep in mind that your FWS's conflict during withdrawal is internal and the BS should not take comments made by the FWS during this time personally. Try to convince yourself you are dealing with a sick charge if that helps you to remove yourself. Try to remember that the feelings the WS felt during the A and the feelings the FWS feel during withdrawal are real EVEN if they are based on an addiction to a fantasy.

Do not be surprised if one hour is good, one hour is bad, then one half day, then one day bad and good, and so one. The reason is the FWS is SLOWLY processing what happened. Every time a WS moves closer to realizing the impact of what they did or what they potentially did, it causes stress, which in turn causes the fog to settle in again, which in turn causes the FWS want to contact the OP. The mind cannot let us see the pain we caused all at once, it would be too overwhelming. Realize that wanting to initiate contact, or hoping that the OP will contact, or wishing for "accidental" contact will happen. This is a fact. It is not a rejection of the BS. Let your FWS speak openly about that - it is a way to help alleviate the stress/desire. A's thrive on secrecy. It do not thrive well in the light of day.

An A is a selfish, destructive, dishonest act. It’s said that the more "honorable" a person is, the deeper they fall into a seduction and therefore it makes sense that it is harder for a basically decent person to climb back out into reality.

FOR WS’s – GUIDELINES TO HELP YOU GET THROUGH WITHDRAWAL:

1. Keep yourself busy, although you may not feel like doing anything. Getting busy will keep your mind from wandering to thoughts of OP. Spend as little time alone as possible. Go to the movies, a concert or a play, whatever you enjoy...as long as you gets busy! Post here, pray, call old friends you may have been neglecting or call current friends you spending too little time with.

2. Get involved with ministry/community service/charity or anything similar. Helping others will take your mind off yourself.

3. Go to your Medical Practitioner and/or Counselor and get antidepressants if necessary. Don’t hesitate to seek professional and medical help if you feel it's necessary.

4. Show love to your S, even when it feels a bit unnatural, fake or forced at first. The acts of love became more real and heartfelt the more they are repeated. When you actively show love and receive feedback from your S, it will become pleasurable to repeat those things. The more you do them, the more real they will become. And spend time with your mate. Do something different. Get out of the rut. Develop new interest. Have fun together. Work at becoming friends again.

5. Make a conscious effort to avoid things that will remind you positively of the OP. Whether it's romantic songs or movies that you enjoyed, hobbies or pastimes you had in common, or just dwelling mentally on conversations or times you enjoyed together...you must do your best to avoid dwelling on them. Thoughts of the OP will pop up and the temptation is to daydream about them at length but the good news is, as you AVOID CONTACT with the OP and having NO CONTACT, these things will fade. The OP itself will become more of a blurry memory. When these memories come up, do whatever you have to do to stop thinking about them. If the OP pops up in your mind, turn your thoughts to happy memories of times with your spouse. Pick up a book, watch a TV show, read the Bible, call a friend, just try hard not to dwell on them. Again, with this, you will find it easier to do as time passes and there is no contact.

6. Constantly remind yourself of the great things about your spouse, and the not-so-great things about the OP. Be honest with yourself. There are areas that you KNOW your spouse is superior to the OP. If you can't think of any, grab on to ANY positive thing you can think about in regards to your spouse. Think of the things that attracted you to your spouse initially, or that you've always liked or admired or respected about him/her and focus on that. Think on these things. Remind yourself of things about the OP that were definitely negative. Magnify them if you have to. Remind yourself that your spouse have it over the OP big time in a couple of major ways e.g:

i) Your spouse didn't indulge in an A with a married man/women.

ii) They love you enough to want to stay with you and stand by you, in spite of the pain you caused him/her.

The above two things alone show you the kind of love and integrity from your BS.

7. Remind yourself constantly that love is something you DO, not something you feel. Love is meeting someone's needs. Love is action. Feelings come and go...especially fantasy-based and fog-based feelings.

8. Develop a good & strong support system which can help & encourage you to maintain NC and stay committed to it. You can accomplish this by taking the following steps:

i) Be honest & open with your BS. Your S must become your greatest friend and confidant. Your S is the key and most important person who can help you to stay committed and maintain NC with OP.

ii) If you have close friends of the same sex who are trustworthy, religious and set a high importance on M and the well-being of both you and your S, then confided in them. The same goes with family members. On days you feel ‘down’, weak and/or vulnerable to contact OP, you can contact them in stead and go to them for support, go out for a cup of coffee with one of them or whatever.

iii) Seek professional help & support. Go to a trusting, outside person like a Christian counselor/therapist or pastor. Make sure the person you seek out is religious and values the importance of marriage in general and the importance of fidelity in a marriage.

8. Know that there is HOPE! There is definitely hope for your marriage and your feelings for the OP can fade. Keep trying, and don't beat yourself up when you have mental and emotional setbacks, because you will. Just look at the big picture and keep going. Realize that recovery is not necessarily about strength, but most importantly the choice and realization that NC is the only way to go. It’s also about the desire to regain your own integrity in spite of your weakness and temptation to contact the OP during withdrawal and early recovery.

Mrs_STOWaway ,

Thanks for the info. I have been reading everything on MB and it in addition to HNHN has helped me a lot, including realizing my contribution to the demise of our marriage.

BTW, why do you say my W defensiveness makes you nervous? Also what does the NC acronymn mean?

We are in plan A, but she is very definitely going through withdrawal. She has been emotional & throwing up the past few days. So it finally looks like it's "hitting" her.
She also said she still loves the OM and has no feelings for me, and that she doesn't feel like giving up the A.

We had our first session together with a MFT today and it turned out positive. She appeared absolutely stunned at the revelation that she had a part in us growing apart!!! The communication exercises we did was also educational.

IMO we have a good shot at rebuilding our marriage, but I just don't get anything reassuring from her at this point. I guess the fact that she's willing to see the MFT with me means something, but her pessimistic attitude makes me insecure. It feels like she has given up already and just wants to do this to prepare both of us for live after she gets out...

One day at a time I guess.

I am in the same place brother. I am burdoned by these thoughts to know more and constantly looking for evidence that she is still in contact with OM. She was very angered and hurt by my previous "invasion" of privacy and still probably is.

We haven't talked about it in a few days as it just spawns a blame argument.

Her: I cant believe you broke into my cpu
Me: Your previous actions (lying to me about EA) made me
Her: Your non-involvement with the M made me have the A
Me: Please don't blame me for your actions

...rinse, repeat

I really can't offer much advice, but I can tell you that you are not alone in your feelings.

Because of what you say later in this post, that she doesn't want to end the affair. I thought she was attempting recovery and to answer your other question, going NC (No Contact). Her understanding of the effects of the adultery on you, and her commitment to end the affair would hopefully mean that she isn't defensive about the affair.


Maybe... I wouldn't say Plan A is something you do together, recovery is something you do together. Plan A is YOUR plan to win back your spouse. It preceeds Plan B, which hopefully you won't have to resort to. Plan A is for BS's whose WS's are on the fence about OP (Other Person), which it sounds like she is.


But has she given it up??? That's the important question - is the A over. Joint marital counseling isn't recommended until the affair is OVER, the WS is just too angry and fogged-out and biased for it to do much good until the A is ended.


Sounds like it is going well... how often are your appts scheduled?



Give Plan A a chance to work... she will be negative at first, you stay strong and stay the course! Fight for your marriage!!!



It's the only way to get thru this... that and God.

MSA

The Carrot and the Stick of Plan A from Pepperband

The carrot of Plan A


Meeting your wandering spouse's emotional needs.

Making "home" a warm and inviting place to be.

Placing emphasis on what has worked in the marriage.

Showing consistent self improvement in areas where previously lacking.

Stop lovebusting behaviors.

Communicating with a calm reassuring voice and relaxed body language, even in the center of a verbal storm created by the infidel.

Becoming the person any reasonable spouse would want to come home to.

Remaining open to the possibility of recovery.

Offering forgiveness and understanding.



The stick of Plan A


Exposing adultery where it matters most. Exposure that takes the form of a swift and sudden unexpected tsunami of truth.

Not appologizing for exposure or speaking the truth in a kind yet direct way.

Directly communicating the hurt and devastation that the affair has caused.

Not accepting blame for the infidel's choice to become adulterous.

Let the consequences of adultery and infidelity fall freely upon the heads of the adulterous.

Establishing boundaries that disallow the affair to effect children of the marriage, financal security of the marriage, and otherwise ruin innocent bystanders.

Standing up to infidelity as a beast that must be slayed for the good of the family.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Plan A is both a *carrot* and a *stick*.

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Hello, I have a general question, my H had a "fling" no love, no emotional, actually no physical attraction, the OW, tried to continue it, was told no, then came up pregnant, (my husband had a vascectomy 27 years ago and had 2 wifes, who didn't use birth control and never got pregnant), anyway, she got him to believe it was his, and because of that, and her threats to contact me, continued the 'fling" for two more years, until someone (we think she did it, thinking I would kick him out) faxed me explicate details. I keep reading about addiction/withdrawal and wonder is he lying to both himself and me. Because all he says is that while he did what he thought was best to keep me from finding out (continuing the fling), he admits that he feels such a weight lifted off him, and that even if we don't make it work, he is so thankful that he doesn't have to see or contact her anymore. Could this be true?
THanks,