There have been three times I have called FWW from work. The first when I was able to determine that she was lying about who she was "just friends" with. The second time I met her early because she had something to tell me but nothing "earth shattering" only that she had been lying to me and that it was an affair. And the third time was when I was able to get ahold of the e-mail they were sending and I read were they referred to me as a "dumb cowboy" and where my FWW had told other man I was a lousy lover!!!

I have read through the sites suggested and realize that one of the many things I need to do better at is make this more about his recovery than my sense of guilt. I have been "strung out" with my own depression. I need to set that aside and concentrate more on listening. Thanks!

Merlin, these pretty follow the script of WW activities and comments.

I reduced drastically my responsibilities at work to spend more time with my STBX. She told me during the year before DDay that things were the best they have ever been and how much she loved me. After DDay she told me we haven't "really" been married for years and she hasn't had feelings for me for 10 years. My STBX ridiculed me with OM as well also...terribly. They even made fun of our children. I can imagine how that hurt you. They called my daughter "the spy" because she would follow my STBX around and make it difficult for her to call or webcam with OM.

It is still early, and I'm glad your both working at it. It didn't get to this point overnight, and it will take time to bring it back.

I know you said you were lurking here. Have you read HNHN or SA? Both will help immensely with things like POJA and radical honesty concepts.

well?

Is there any validity to either of these rude remarks?

Yeah, I understand. it's like cat juggling sometimes ---sharp objects in every direction!

Are you getting adequate treatment for your depression?

Merlin2,

I feel your pain. Believe me, I'm a BH, too.

Many people on this forum can attest that what I'm about to do is akin to the pot calling the kettle black, but I would strongly suggest you start your own thread.

This site is GREAT to help bring out issues and hash them out without it becoming a screaming match in your house. Nevertheless, you're starting to be sucked into the temptation to "correct" your W. No matter WHO is right, very little good can come of this... Or at least any good that can come of it may be overshadowed by the hurt.

OR... Perhaps it is good, but doing it on your own threads will be FAR more productive.

Let me offer a few observations: Your situation looks similar to mine in a number of respects. You saw "agreements" as agreements. Seems logical enough, but the truth is that if they were not ENTHUSIASTIC agreements, then one of you has extracted a sacrifice from the other, and that will lead to resentment. It did.

Also, It appears that your M was not safe for honesty. Whether or not it was safe, your W didn't feel it was the best policy. In my experience, it may have been an overreaction to something on her part, but it was in response to SOMETHING, and that's something you have to work on.

Finally, YES, your W said cruel things about you. Many WSs do that. However, you have her now and she says she loves you and she says she's TRYING to work on the M. It sounds to me like she's still wondering around in a bit of fog, and so you're just going to have to put up with some REALLY annoying [email]cr@p[/email] from her.

You love her. This is a price that's WORTH the restoration of your M, and it's a price you can pay.

We're here for you... AND your W.

God Bless,

I suppose the only reliable answer would be from FWW???

Slightly OT in regard to comments about the BH being a "lousy lover" -

NOTE TO ALL WIVES:

If your H is NOT a great lover - tell him, and tell him you want to help him become great, too!

A man can much more easily take a minor blow to his ego that he's not doing what you want, if you WANT him to be and are willing to help him become GREAT at satisfying you (through extensive practice, of course.)

There are FEW things that are as devestating to a man's ego than to learn that for some significant period of time when he BELIEVED he was being a good lover that he finds out (directly or worse, indirectly) that you've been leading him on about his prowess in bed out of a condescending disrespectful pitty for his frail male ego.

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Now we return to our regularly scheduled BS-WS argument over the particulars over the details of the demise of their relationship... When the bell rings, come out with your dukes up!

My point was/is ---- people exchanging affair emails MUST say crap about how "lousy" their spouse is in order to justify what they are doing --- it means NOTHING --- unless you are a dumb not-so-good-in-bed cowboy --- which I am guessing --- [color:"red"] you aint' <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" /> [/color]

.... waiting for the bell <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Merlin2,
I did not mean to rewrite our marriage or blame you in any way for my decision to wreck everything. I reluctantly posted to a discussion forum because the information here has helped us and you asked me to. I do not think that you have been a bad influence on our kids, just the opposite. I agreed to spend our weekends alone. I dropped my classes because I wanted to show you how serious I was about making us my focus. You are innocent in this. I didn't communicate with you the way I should have pre-A and I truly have not blamed you. All I want is you. There is no excuse for the affair. The things I have written about are pressures that contributed to my choices, not excuses. I am not sure what this is accomplishing...

" pressures "

well said!!!!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

2Mel

Don't give up. What your H needs is to work though this.

You responded well to his comments.

Now, (and I'm a BH telling you this) stand up, be ready to re-itterate your sincere sorrow for what you've done, but make sure he knows that you're still his W, and he still needs to love you and protect you - even from his own anger.

You need to tell him that you're human, you've failed, but you're his partner and if he wants to recover, he needs to continue to accept you as his partner in the recovery.

Don't dismiss his pain... It's real, and it's NOW. Love him through it, but don't let him beat you up with your mistakes.

Merlin2,

Listen, you need to be careful! You're W strayed from you because her love-bank with you got low and she became vulnerable and she made a REALLY bad choice. Do you think nit-picking everything she says is going to help shore-up your love-bank balance with her???

You're pain is real... I've felt it too, but remember that the past is something she cannot change. Be grateful that she is willing to say she loves you and mean it. Be grateful that she's ready to accept her wrongness and repair the M.

Don't hurt yourself by lashing out at her in your pain.

God bless you both!

Kiddies,

Really, TD was right. Separate threads for both of you would be far more productive here.

There is a lot of help for you both on this site but bickering back & forth is really counterproductive.

I would encoursge both of you to have your own threads and even ignore the others threads. You both need to vent safely and without fear of recriminations and comebacks etc.

I didn't get to read much of my FWW's email cept for one where she was telling another man she was trying to hook up with about her previous affair and how discreet she could be.



I'm sure somewhere down the affair line she told OM he was a greater lover or that I was a lousy lover or whatever. The guy owned two cats. She probably told him his flea bitten weasels looked better than my prized golden tabby. Surely she wasn't going to see him to make him mad.

Sad thing is I ended up having a ONS with a skanky wench and I thought the police would come before she did the way she was screaming, moaning, carrying on like some up and coming pron star actress trying to make a big break. OGODOGODOGODONTSTOPDONTSTOP!! I almost LOL'd during it because I know I ain't that good. I mean come on! She was trying to make me feel good, isn't that what people having affairs do to one another? They want to boost that ego, get that fix. They lie to do so. They lie to each other and everyone else within earshot. They try to make themselves feel special or grand or what the fuq ever?

But even after realizing all of this, I still sometimes find myself wondering what my FWW told OM about me.

And about my cat, man he has feelings too.


No laughing now though. I committed adultery and it feels terrible and will continue to feel terrible.

I also suggest staying out of each other's threads in this place.

2melancholey

You have not tried to blame me. I also have tried to accept my part of the failure of our marriage pre-A. I had hoped this could show us both the different views of both the BS & WS and allow us to re-build our marriage and not conflict avoid the rolls we both played. It is perhaps too hard to subject ourselves to the harshness and pain not only by what we have felt but what others have felt both the BS & WS. The pain we both feel is both very real and heartfelt by both of us. Perhaps posting here was just one of many mistakes we both have made with good intentions. But thank you for trying.
Merlin2

Merlin2,

K'mon man!

JUST because some feathers get ruffled, and you two are still in pain doesn't mean you need to stop posting here altogether...

If you want to see how a couple can really get into it here, and still work through stuff, check out MY thread...

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/sho...;page=4#2905153

Don't give up. Consider this place and all of us as tools and assitants to you... There are good ways to use the forum and there are better ways!

Thanks for the ecourgment. I believe that one of the difficulties we are having is that we never had exchaned even small words of conflict before this. We both tried to put the other first and protect each other from any hurt. For us to be angry with each other has been a whole new experience. I admit it is still raw to me and I get angry by some of the differing views from FWW. I am still learning how to not try and LB while dealing with my personal feelings. I do love her very much and will respect what ever decision she makes about posting here.
Merlin2

No, you lied to each other. There's a BIG difference. If you wanted to protect each other from real pain you would recognize that you are important to each other enough to not let resentment build up.

Think of it like this... Have you ever gone to the gym? Ever lifted weights? How'd you feel a day or so after the first REAL workout you ever had? Hurt? Was the workout good or bad for you?

Um... It was good for you, but pain is a part of growth.

What you WERE doing is protecting YOURSELF from an uncomfortable situation. BIG difference. BIG BIG difference.

Running and hiding from issues doesn't work very well when you're married to the source of your discomfort. So, by far, if you want to avoid REAL pain, it is a MUCH better idea to state your feelings and truths without blame or demands or loud words (Disrespectful Judgments, Selfish Demands, or Angry Outbursts) so that you can avoid the habit of dishonesty.

Believe me, I am SOOOOOOOO living through THAT lesson... My FWW and I are still learning it.

Good luck and God bless!

I understand!!!! Unless I can avoid it first. Just kidding.