Pepperband,
I have been thinking about this post. It really did hit home and I do see what you mean. I guess the power struggle I was trying to get at was that I was either with the kids or with him. We rarely ever did things all together. We do most errands, sports etc. all together now, it has made a big difference in the way that we communicate. That has gotten much better. Thank you for helping me think...My time is now devoted to the right priorities.

Okay, I posted earlier today & lost it. So, I'm going to back to what I wanted to respond to earlier.


You know, I cannot speak from a WS position, but what I can tell you is that I agree both parties have responsibilities in recovery, I don't think it's 50/50. In my case, our marriage fralities may be both of our faults, but the A is the choice of ONE person. I will accept responsibility where I failed, but will not accept any responsibility for my FWH's actions. I know no one here would expect that.

And due to the anger & resentment I have right now, I cannot hear from my FWH that I have just as much responsibility in recovery as he because I don't believe it. I am ready to walk out the door if he doesn't step up & work to save this marriage since is has been the destroyer of it.

I guess I see it like this: If 2 children share a room & both have responsiblities in that room, and one child decides to destroy the room while the other is out of the room (maybe because they are unhappy sharing the room, or having a sibling or something mean was said to them by their sibling or other LB's), so they justify their actions based on how they are feeling. I would not expect both to spend equal time working & cleaning it up. I would expect the one who destroyed it to do the majority of the work. I would let the other child point out where their items go & have a say in how the cleaning is done, but why should they bear 50% of the work? In fact, they are likely hurt & upset because their room was destroyed & they had no say in it. They may have lost items they cannot get back. Why would I punish them EVEN if they said something they shouldn't have? I certainly would expect them to apologize for what they may have said, but the "recovery" of the room would bear on the shoulders of the one who destroyed it.


I also don't agree that both parties are greiving. At least NOT the same grief. I am greiving the LOSS of the husband I thought I had, the LOSS of the Marriage I thought I had & the LOSS of love that I had for both my H & M. NOW, the key difference is that he has KNOWN ALL along that they M wasn't based on honesty and he had YEARS to process what he did to me before I knew. So, there is NO comparison with the grief I have to what he may or may NOT feel.

The reason I say this is that I was to make VERY clear to WS out there how important it is to understand the perspective of the BS because my H was on the road to D with his attitude of recovery - blaming me for not moving forward while he did nothing to prove he was worthy of that chance.

Finally, here's a quote someone else posted that I think is more clearly the way I see the WS:

"The notion that infidelity always reveals something about the marriage continues to impose on couples demands that no one in any other realm of health care would countenance. That an affair has occured obviously means that the marriage was vulerable. That the pattern of marital interaction allowed it to happen. That does not mean that the affair is the function of that pattern....Sometimes we choose dishonorable ways of feeling better because of our own shortcomings. This is not a shortcoming of the marriage. [color:"red"] Nothing ever makes an individual trustworthy except his or her own good character. And affair need not show anything wrong with the marriage, but it ALWAYS shows unreliable character - a person who does not keep promises and engages in deceit is, by definition, unreliable.[/color]

Yes, you might be able to decrease the partner's unhappiness; then YOU WILL HAVE TAKEN THE RESPONSIBILITY for keeping the partner happy ENOUGH that he or she won't do what they should NEVER be willing to do anyway. "

I talked to 2mel last night and we decided to take the advice of others and me not post on her thread. Our desire is to learn and re-build. Thank you again.
merlin2

2melancholy,

I was hoping to hear more from you in response to my point of view.

Hi WTBS,
I have taken a couple of days to try and process some of the thoughts that have been shared. I agree with you that the BS doesn't bear the brunt of responsibility for recovery but I also think that if the BS concentrates on how much the WS is NOT doing instead of the small steps they are, then the BS will be hindering recovery even if it isn't their ultimate responsibility.

I also believe that until a wayward spouse is at least ready to make effort- however feeble, the BS is fighting a losing battle as far as recovery goes. I can tell you from experience, I spent a week or so trying to decide what I wanted. I know that if my H. had spent that time reminding me how unreliable I was and how disgusting, it would have taken much longer than a week for me to see what I wanted and needed...my husband. He made it clear that he knew I was in trouble and he wanted to help me. Did he believe that then? I don't know but I do know that his patience saved me. You might have read above where my H. wrote of an e-mail that called him a lousy lover. Some of the reponses reminded me how cruel that is and how - for a male those kinds of hurts are devistating. First of all, he is NOT by any means a lousy lover. He is actually amazing. My point is, the pain that caused him was intense. He had every right to go off on me, to react. He didn't, he expressed his hurt to me. Fact is, we neither were completely satisfied with our love life but never talked about it for fear of hurting the other's feelings.

(BTW, I am fully aware how ironic and WRONG it is that I didn't want to hurt his feelings by talking about hard subjects but went out and had an affair - the ultimate hurt for a relationship.)

We talked about why we didn't talk about sex before and came to the realization that by trying to protect each other in this way, we were indeed lying to each other..

There is a point to this I promise,

My extremely intelligent and insightful H. has said he has had on several occasions, to choose between being "right" or being on the road to recovery with me. He is correct when he says he had little indication from me that anything was wrong pre-A. I would hold everything in, a little stepford wife. I would smile and agree while I unconsciously built resentment. I didn't learn how to express negative feelings growing up so I just stuffed them down.

He would be "correct" if he pointed out all the horrifying lies I told. He would be telling the truth if he said I was selfish and childish. We talk about all of this but he doesn't beat me over the head. We do have angry conversations sometimes, not often.

My H. was heroically able to put me first a little while longer even after he found out about the A. I believe his willingness to do so saved me and our marriage. Now, it is my turn to put him first. It is time for him to be able to express the hurt and anger he is feeling and me not make it about me. I can understand that and I thank the members of this forum for helping me to relize that. I can and am willing to listen and be good to him and for him because he gave me time to get in my right mind before he began expressing his anger.

Even though I victimized our marriage and took advantage of him, he refused to be a victim. I WILL lose my H., my home and life as I know it if I ever become involved with anyone else again. He has made this absolutely clear without being threatening.

I agree the pain of being a victim and the pain of being the perpetrator of hurt is different. I am ashamed to say that I have been on both sides. When I was betrayed, I could still look myself in the eye. It hurt terribly but I knew I had tried. Now, there is a part of me that is permanently gone. I became what I hated most at one time in my life.

Affairs hurt eveyone deeply. Affairs destroy what is best about us as humans - blind trust that results from purity of heart and innocent love. I won't do this again but that can't restore the pure trust we once shared. I will have to face myself each day knowing that I destroyed something that can't be resurrected but my hope lies in the fact that I can spend the rest of my life with my H. We now have love tested by fire. I will spend everyday appreciating having hope, appreciating my H.'s ability to see what could still be.

2Mel,

You said something I thought I would comment on. Once again I would like to welcome you here. You and your H have found an excellent resource.

You said

Do you see these two quotes? In one you say he is "amazing", and in the next you essentially say "BUT". This "BUT" just negated what you said before. This is the sort of honesty that your H needs. Not the "I am sorry about..., BUT". If you are not satisfied tell him, but don't tell him he is amazing. He knows he is not, he got to read that in black and white from you already. This sort of compliment actually reinforces his feelings you are NOT being honest with him. Do you see my point?

Next you said:


I think you really don't understand quite yet. People will go off when they are hurt. They will NOT go off when they have been shot through the heart. No matter what he had the right to do, he was too hurt to do it. Do you see this? The biggest problems WS's have, is feeling that THEY are the problem in recovery. That is is about them and what they did. The reality seems to be the problem is the BS has lost trust in...THEMSELVES. You don't realize this yet, but your biggest problem in recoverying this marriage, is how your H feels about himself. And yes the pre-A marriage situation is part of that. But, you have made it very clear by your choices that he was NOT the man for you, and he was not the lover the OM was.

It was pointed out and you agree that you two have not been honest with one another about the sexual issues. You realize you need to be now. My post to you is to point out that this really includes avoiding the "yes...but" type of statements.

I have read your H's posts and am aware of your situation. But, one thing you need to fully understand. I don't know how attentive he was to you, what you said, what you did, but I can assure you he is extremely sensitive to what you say, don't say, do, and don't do. Be very honest and tell him what you need. But, also be aware that what you are dealing with now is his lack of trust in himself.

That loss of trust will cause him to be on some huge emotional roller coasters, as thoughts, triggers, and fears strike him and they will.

Hope something I have said helps.

God Bless,

JL