Previous thread for info at: http://www.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/sho...&PHPSESSID=

OM confirmed by email that he would not resign from the choir nor would he leave my wife alone. I will be exposing him to his vicar tomorrow.

My W went to choir tonight, and told me that "if it was any comfort, she would not be socialising afterwards" - i.e. not seeing OM socially.

I thought it unusual that she would make a point of saying this (given FOGgy behaviour) and thought it might mean she was actually seeing OM after choir (i.e. seeing him but not with the other choir members).

She then phoned me at 10pm saying she was back from choir and was going straight to bed.

Anyway, later on (about midnight) I got a friend to look after the kids and went round to the flat she's in and found his car outside. I went up to the window (it's Ground Floor) and heard them getting into bed together. Then someone came out of the next door (the people who own the two flats) and saw me, so I left rapidly. I feel like a stalker!

My concern is what to do next. I'm trying to do plan A, but feel like I should lock her out of the family house and not let her back in. The neighbour who saw me will tell her I was there in any case, so I have to confront her about her lies and behaviour, even though this may be a LB.

I guess I can only expose more and more widely. In the meantime, I wonder if I should keep her away from me and the kids, as my mood at the moment is to strangle her.

I have heard what you all say about the lies and the FOG, but how can they do this to people that they have loved in the past and who love them? I have spent the last 3 weeks telling her and showing her how much I love her, and she still does this to me!

It's so hard, and I don't know what to do. Someone tell me!

DRD

It horrible, isn't it? like a brain transplant and your wife is not your wife.

So sorry ....

But I wonder what stopped you from knocking on her door that night?????




I think she needs a HUGE reality check .... take the kids and disappear for a few days .... let HER wonder what's what .... not regular Plan A strategy .... but in my opinion, your WW will continue to lie to you and feel like there are NO consequences ... dispense some meaningful consequences ...

and --- did you expose to the vicar?

With respect, go back to the first thread you started and follow the advice there. Nothing has changed.

And why didn't you bang on the door and stop OM from banging your wife that night?

Come on man. stand up.

That was my thought........heck, I may have even banged on the window.........I seriously don't think I would have just walked away, I don't think I could've just walked away.

-Caren

Hi BigK, Pep, and Caren,

I was just about to go to the door and confront her, but then the neighbour came out of the house and shocked me into scarpering instead.

It might have been difficult to explain to the flat owner why I was stalking a woman he's renting a flat to (he doesn't know me) after midnight on the drive of his property. I thought he might call the police, and where would that get my relationship with my kids. I don't want to have a record.

I am trying to stand up to this behaviour, and in light of what Pep says perhaps it will be a good thing to double lock the door tonight and leave a note on it saying not to come in (she would otherwise come in at 0745 to get the kids up for school, though I can do this myself easily enough).

I do think a shock to her system would be good, though I don't know when I can take the kids anywhere. My concern is how and when to do so. This weekend I have a trip to scotland for business and she will have the kids Fridsy to Sunday.

NB - I am going to expose to the vicar tomorrow - my pastor is going to ring him first to tell him I'm not a crank, so there should be some credibility.

Do you think I should lock the door this morning?

DRD

Do you think the following text is too much of a LB if left on the door of the house for her to find at 0745?

"Please do not try to come in the house, I have double locked the door. I am too upset by your blatant lies and adulterous behaviour to allow you in.
I will take the kids to school and pick them up and you are not to come and see us tonight.
When you are ready to be honest with me I will let you see the kids again."

It sounds a bit like I'm making demands / being disrespectful (i.e. LBs) but she needs to know how hurt she has made me.

DRD

Tell her landlord what the situation is. Expose Expose Expose.

And if you want to lock her out, lock her out. She can break in, of course, and won't be breaking any laws if she does, since it is her home. But, maybe she won't.

-AD

Sure lock her butt out if you want to.....but I would change the wording of the note to:


WW,

I have double locked the door, I will be taking the children to school and picking them up today. We need to talk later and set up a visitation schedule.

-DRD

Something like that, not too much info, as it will be on the front door for anyone to read, and prepare for her to be hopping mad about it.

You are going to need to start plan Aing (You can still do the *scaring her* thing with the kids that was suggested), so study up on that, and yes EXPOSE, EXPOSE!!!!

Good Luck and God Bless,

-Caren

Hi all,

Surprisingly positive today - possibly first step in real recovery. I did leave the full note (sory Caren, didn't see your post until just now) with marginal changes.

Basically: Dont come in, I'm too upset. I know you've lied and slept with OM again, and please leave me alone today.

However, she knocked on the door this morning and I did let her in. I was angry and upset, so was she.

She told me that she had decided not to see OM any more and to leave the choir and said (though it's hard to believe) that she did not have sex with him last night, because of how she was already feeling.

She said that she knew she had to try our relationship - although she didn't want to and still loves Him. All very upsetting.

In the end I stayed at home instead of hoing to work and talked to her some, then we went out together and did some shopping. I'm now back at home in the afternoon and she's asleep upstairs (emotionally drained).

She cried a lot this afternoon, because she does not want to give up OM and the Choir, and because she feels she is being forced to come back (I had said that I felt like I could no longer trust her in the flat). It's very hard, but perhaps a start towards recovery.

I tried to be positive and helpful while not negating (and understanding) the hurt she is feeling - as it's true that OM and Choir are a big part (one of the biggest) of her life over the past few months

Giving them up will require pain and grieving - I just hope she's strong enough to do it

DRD

Uh-huh. Did you really believe that?

Did you tell her that you were going to expose her A to the choir? Sounds to me like she told you that to try to protect the OM and herself from any embarrassment.

Something that I did in my case...

I made my wife clearly understand that I was NOT willing to let her 'fence sit'. She was NOT going to have OM and I both. If she chose OM, then she lost me...completely, totally, forever. If she chose me...then I would NOT accept any kind of contact with OM again...any kind, ever. And if she waffled on that...then see what I said before...I wouldn't be around. Our case was different...OM wasn't in town, so physical contact wasn't possible at that time between them.

I never once relented on this. Now I know that many on MB do not advocate 'ultimatums'...but I definitely made this a clear boundary with clear consequences. This was my limit...she made the mistake in having the affair...but I wasn't going to just sit there and allow the affair to continue in front of me.

Your wife has SAID that she's going to stop seeing OM, and stop going to choir...now...you need to ask her how she's going to PROVE that to you. Actions matter here...not words. She needs to SHOW you that she's made these changes...don't just accept what she says. This is part of rebuilding the trust that was damaged by the affair.

Start setting some very very clear boundaries in your recovery...don't be unreasonable, but don't accept anything that would allow a risk to your marriage. Discuss your boundaries here if you like before you take them to your wife.

Plan A...this is what you need to resume at this point...which means make the changes in yourself that you need to make...and work to ensure that the affair is ended.

My take at least.

Expose to vicar today (as planned)

irregardless of what your wife said to you last night...

and do not forget

the TITLE of your thread is very
very very
very

accurate !!!!

DRD,

I know you've hard a very hard day. These things get so confusing. We here have seen these situations time and time again and I find it highly unlikely she is ready to give up OM and recommit to the marriage...yet. It is possible. Just unlikely. OM just communicated to you yesterday he was not going to give up WW or his job. Your WW's head is mixed up with these emotions...I just can't see her making it two days without her addiction. The pain just has not been that great yet.

I hope I am wrong.

There is a poster here named OWL. He advocates a plan wherein you just get your wife to commit to trying for a predetermined amount of time ... say 5 or 6 months. At the end of 6 months, you state you are willing to release her. Without complaint or regret and with integrity. However, during the 5 or 6 month period WW is to have "No Contact" with OM. If she broke down and had contact then the 5 or 6 months would begin anew. Your argument is that she can leave you...that if the marriage is truly not to be...then let that be determined by just the two of you without the involvement of OM. That his feelings are merely a distraction to a very important determination life decision that the two of you must make...alone. At the very least, for the kids sake, you TWO need to see if this can be fixed.

WW's are amazed when you can read their minds...as if you know them so well (maybe you are their "soulmate"). It is easy to do right now cause all WW's act and think generally the same. Right now...your WW is probably thinking how the two of you will never work out, how she has absolutely no "passionate" feelings or "real" connection with you, OM is her soulmate...can she really give that up or wait, she thinks how she is only obligated to you...not in love with you, she loves the kids and might try for them but she doesn't want to give them or you false hope so maybe she shouldn't try at all, etc.

All those thoughts will disappear in "No Contact" if you can truly achieve that. Busting up the affair is your only mission right now. Worry about "feelings" and "reconciling" later.

I don't know if you purchased any of the books on this website but I like His Needs/Her Needs the most. It covers affairs in much the same manner as Surviving an Affair and also delivers the tools to rebuild your relationship. I purchased the audio version on CD and my wife and I listened to it together...pausing to discuss ourselves when appropriate.

Also...that file I sent you may be appropriate now.

Good luck,

Mr. Wondering

Hilarious...OWL

I type your name and you post it before me...awesome

Mr. W

Actually Mr 'dubya', I have to admit that I personally didn't follow this particular plan exactly...but I've had a few friends that have used this method with success.

In my case, the affair itself ended with OM telling WW not to fly to his state to live with him because she'd been waffling on what she wanted...and I took her home from the motel that day. That truly ended the affair itself...additional contact occurred for about a month afterwards, but mostly initiated by WW and not very A supporting in truth. During this time, I was plan A'ing without knowing what plan A was. We had even begun making plans for a trial seperation...and had started an in-house seperation as well. But when her withdrawl over the A ended, her choice was made pretty quickly due to a good foundation marriage and a pretty decent plan A on my part during the withdrawl.

But...the entire reason we even talked about a trial seperation was because she wasn't sure if she wanted to reconcile or not...and was even talking about going back to OM during her withdrawl...and I made it CRYSTAL clear to her that I wasn't going to be part of her life if she chose him. And it was really knowing...truly knowing that she was going to lose me completely in any capacity if she did move forward with OM that drove home to her what the results of her actions would be. She, like most WS's, had expected that I would be there as her friend in the future...she had that hope that I'd still be meeting some of her EN's in truth. I refused to allow that fantasy to continue, and that, on top of showing her what she was going to lose if she made that choice...was what caused her to choose to reconcile our marriage. Again, the basic premise of plan A.

But, what you mentioned that I've been a strong proponent of does work a lot of times...because the trick to it is that it ends contact between OP and WS, and it allows the BS to do a good 'plan A' and demonstrate the improvements and changes in the marriage...and allows the WS to go through withdrawl, see the changes, and begin to gravitate back to the BS.

Yes...I edited after I read your post and realized/remembered it was just a plan you suggest here...not what you actually did.

No worries...I'm sure...at least I gave you credit - lol

Mr. Wondering

P.S. - DRD...the ultimatums OWL gave only work if you are really serious about backing them up...you almost have to go to a Plan B immediately if she has contact again (which is likely); and, unlike OWL, your OM is in the neighborhood so to speak.

DRD - Don't be deterred from exposing. You MUST end the affair to have a chance.

Thanks MIM, Owl, Pep, and MrW,

Thanks for your help!!!


I didn't tell her about exposure - so that's not the reason. I spent most of the day with her today, so I could not visit the vicar, but my pastor did call him and we have set up a visit for tomorrow.

Clearly, I am not just going to accept the statement she made, but on the other hand I am not going to say she is definitely lying. At this point, I choose to believe she is telling the truth, but I await proof, and expect her to be lying to me.



That's what I did. I said that I found her statements hard to accept given the past lies, and that I wanted there to be proof. I said that a possible start would be for her to move back in (though this had to be her decision, I was not going to try to force her to). She has also said she will leave choir, but the proof of this remains to be demonstrated.

However, I think she is sincere, as I believe the real tears of pain she was shedding this afternoon were an early sign of the grief of having made this decision. The decision has yet to be demonstrated and STUCK to, though, so I must take this one day at a time.

One problem is that she is resentful of me "pushing" her to do things. For example, this morning she apparently phoned OM to say she would not contact him (while I was out taking kids to school). She said it was not fair on him for me to be in on that "dumping him" conversation. I asked her if she would write a no-contact letter to him as a demonstration of this to me, but she is adamant that she has already told him and that it would be terrible to also write it to him. When I said that her statement to me about this was not "demonstration", she got very upset and we ended up having an argument where she said I was trying to maipulate her into doing something she did not want to do.

How do I deal with this?


Yes - am exposing tomorrow now. I thought it was important to spend the time today with my wife as she wss willing to do so.

Note: I am not just trusting her word!


No - which is why I am waiting to see it longer term. Tonight, at least, she came back to the house and is sleeping here (albeit downstairs). This may demonstrate something. However, the unwillingness to write a no-contact letter may indicate otherwise.

I like the idea of the 6-month agreement option. Will consider it more.


This is exactly what she's like and almost what she says verbatim. LOL

I am certainly working to achieve a proper NC condition, and am hoping this will lead to recovery.

Thanks all of you for your support and help. It's brilliant. I will certainly get hold of HNHN soon.

DRD

Thanks BigK


No, I won't. I'm starting tomorrow with his vicar. I want to see how that goes, but will follow it by exposure to his other choirs.

Cheers,
DRD

Brief update: I spoke to OM's vicar this morning, and he is taking this very seriously. He asked me if OM's involvement had damaged our marriage (i.e. was there an existing insurmountable difficulty before he got involved). I said that, while we had had some problems, these could have been overcome with openness, but that the A had scuppered the chance of this and made any recovery hugely more difficult.

I was clear to say that I wanted help to end the contact between them, and was not doing this for revenge.

Vicar is going to confront OM shortly (but has some of his own personal difficulties, in that his mum has just died and he is arranging funeral, etc). I should know more by Monday latest.

DRD