--I'd start at $100, and then compromise in the middle... if he wonders why so high, say, because, it won't cost you the time, inconvenience, or the embarrasement of what I'll do to you in court, if you just settle this here and now like a man that loves his child.

GRRR. (oh, and you should GRRR at him, like an engry mother protecting her child, just for special effects!:) )

-hang in there

Caren...you are the adult. Why on earth are you making choices based on what children think or want?

Okay.....well, Mark has finally gotten that car out OW's garage.......and, therefore I am speaking to him again.

NOW WHAT?

I am so apprehensive, I mean I've seen him since he informed me it was done, and he was very affectionate, now I need to know what the next step is.

We are living separately....My lease is for 11 more months. We went to dinner (Mark, Brooklyn and I) and he even took me over to look at the wedding rings, but *I* wasn't into it, I just glanced at them and then decided I really wasn't into it.

I dunno what to do, I'm feeling apprehensive. I suppose it's a defense mechanism.....but how do I get past that?

Yesterday he came by, because he bought Brooklyn a goldfish..with bowl and everything and set it up for her, but he seemed very stand offish. I talked to him about it later on the phone and he said "Caren, it's just going to take time."

I need to know, now that he's actually done what I asked of him in the Plan B Letter.......where do I go from here.

I feel lost, I feel like we need a plan of what to do from here. Can someone help me with this??? Mortarman said something about a list of things that we need to make together regarding marital recovery....but what should be on this list....I'm drawing a blank.

I want to spend time with him....I think that we should come up with some kind of schedule, he's still working on getting back that "in love" feeling with me.....and I know that I love him with all my heart, and I have a horrible time keeping my taker at bay.

He held my hand in the car. Came up to me and kissed me...rubbed my shoulders...and it was really nice, since he hasn't touched me except for when we were going to have sex in a VERY long time.

I know that he's not supposed to be jumping for joy....he's being very cautious....he said he's afraid things will go back to the way they were before the *A*. So he's basically afraid of being hurt also. And I'm WAY gunshy for the same reason.


HELLLLLLLLLLP!!!!!

God Bless,

Caren

Okay, slow down Caren. First off...congratulations! To BOTH of you! You now have a husband again! I know you are apprehensive. He is also. This is goingto take a lottle while. So the key word here is to slow down and take this step by step. The fun part of this is that the steps being taken now will be taken TOGETHER!


This is what Plan B does for you. It gives you protection and I know you dont want to be hurt again. Caren, the key to the future for you two will be to allow each other to help each other. You will need to tell him how yo uare feeling, though. Like: "Mark, I love you and I do want this. I just want you to know that I am a little scared of all of this and being hurt again and I will need your help with that." Especially for us men, we need direct honesty because we cannto read women's brains (as much as you ladies want us to).


He is correct!


You see? You already are coming up with the list. Caren, you dont need a list TODAY! You need to just figure out the first things you want to do. So, go out a few times together. Make it not so much about the relationship. Just relax a little and enjoy each other's company. This is a big mess and it wont be cleaned up over night. So, do a little each day and spend the rest of the time enjoying each other. Maybe setting limits on relationship talk. Maybe an hour a day or something like that.

Also, go back on this website and read what Dr. Harley says about recovery and some of the things you need to do. He does say it isnt as important to look at the past, as it is to look to the future. So, concentrate on that. See what you can do about financial stuff, about the apartment. What are you two going to do this summer? What is the family going to do for a vacation? I dont know...whatever it is. A couple that is planning a future together doesnt have to worry about that mess of the past.


Again, when the war ends...everyone is gun shy. Thats okay. Recovery takes a lot longer than the affair or any of the Plan As or Bs. And it will be an incremental thing.

Get your husband to get onboard with the MB principles on how a marriage should work. Talk to him about POJA. That you want to in decisions to be made, that the two of you agree before doing it. You see, your husband is hurt and confused to. He needs some of the tools that you already have.

Caren, please...I know you. Just take this slow, okay? And again...congrats!!!

In His arms.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

thank God for Mortarman

A suggestion about POJA.

This concept undoubtedly throws people. Incredulous, they wonder "You mean you have veto power over everything I want to do?"

And in a way, it might be abused by passive-agressive behavior. It's right to be concerned about that.

The best way to present it is the most honest: "The POJA protects you from my selfishness, and vice-versa."

GC

Good point, GC.

In His arms.

Motar....this is wisdom.....and you need to keep repeating this to yourself.

Caren, I never posted on your thread before but I have tried to follow your situation somewhat. I just want you to know that stories like your's give us BS hope, even though you are JUST starting recovery.

Good luck.

And this to Mortarman...

Have you ever considered writing a book? Man do you ever have a knack with this infidelity stuff! Steve and Jennifer should hire you as part of their team.

I'm sure I speak for other BS's when I say your insight and guidance is a God send.

BTW, I'm VERY close to Plan B myself so all this helps me tremendously...thanks!

HTW,

Yes, I have thought about getting involved in a more professional way. I actually have had developed by some friends of mine, a software product that helps a person in Plan A / Plan B. Kind of a tool to get a handle on things. It just records all of the stuff you need and has reports come out of it that are good for keeping you straight...or for your attorney, etc. Shoot, one of those reports saved me $800 with my attorney when I went because it was so put togther, my attorney didnt need to go thru my stuff and have it typed up by his clerks. All he had to do was attach a memo to it and send it on (it was financial data). The new version is actually going to be m,arketed starting next week. I talked to the guys yesterday and they said that soem suggestions for improvement I have made are already going into an upgrade that they will make available in about 6 months.

Anyway, it is a tool that dovetails into the principles we use here and allows the user to get it all in one place and see where things are at.

On the counselign part, I have thought about it and I might contact SH soon to see how I can get involved (with them or just on my own). I cant say that I love all of the pain here. But I do love the battle!

As far as I am concerned, there is a war for our families and marriages out there. Shoot, mine may still end even with my best efforts. None of us are immune! But if we dont start battling against this mess, what is marriage gonna look like for my grandkids?

Anyway...thanks for the compliment. I am jsut trying to repay what so many did for me when I was in the middle of my mess!

In His arms.

Looking GOOD, Caren!

Mortar, I remember when you were talking about that software!

So the important question:
Open or closed source?

GC

By closed/open source, I assume you are speaking about freeware. As of now, they plan on closed source. They have talked abaout open source possibilities, but they are not sure how it will work. As is in a capitalist society, they did this as a way to make money while giving a service to people who need it. They are just not sure how the open source way helps them.

In His arms.

So........is now the time to fill out the EN Questionnaire?

I told him that we need to spend more time together. We talk on the phone daily, but it's generally not regarding the relationship, just small talk regarding the kids, etc.

Since I have 11 months left on my lease, we won't be moving back together for quite some time. I don't want to move back together just yet.....been there, done that. But I also think a year is an awfully long time to be living apart.

When we have discussed it, he talked about me moving back into the house we used to live in, and I'm not on sure enough footing here to even bring up that I don't think I want to live there.......it was never our house together (Excluding the time I lived there [8 months]), and OW was the one that was there to help him move in, and spent time there with him before we moved back together, and I find myself thinking "Did she buy this?"...."Did she help him pick this out?"....I don't know maybe that's silly.

I know that these worries are putting the cart before the horse...I know this, and I have a tendency to rush everything.

I haven't mentioned this to my husband, but it sorta worries me.

So anyway, I talked to him last night, told him that I thought we needed to spend more time together. I don't want to just see him on the weekends. (He works until 9 pm everynight...and he has to go home and let the dogs out [who've been in their kennels all day]).

I told him that I'd like to schedule a date night every week, where we can just be together alone. Neither one of us have much money....so it doesn't need to be dinner and a movie.....just something.

I also mentioned the questionnaire. He said "A questionnaire?" I said "Yes...you know the one I left laying around for you and you eventually threw away..." He said "Caren I'm not in school anymore, I don't want to fill out a questionnaire" I said "Mark, it's a questionnaire about filling each other's needs. It's nothing anyone *grades* it's just something so we know more about each other's needs" He seemed okay with it after that.

I don't want this to feel like *class* to him. I just want to be able to begin to reconnect.

I know that he doesn't have all those *in love* feelings back, but he does tell me that he loves me very much and doesn't want to be without me, and that he misses me and our family.

So far we've both sorta kept this under wraps. He hasn't told his mom/family that we're trying to work it out and neither had I until last night. I explained to my Mom that we want to work it out....to which I was met with a *Sigh*. (As in HERE WE GO AGAIN).

I don't understand this exactly....because I made it clear to EVERYONE that even though I was moving out, that the end result I was trying to accomplish was saving my marriage.....well no one outside this forum even remotely understands that concept.

They all view this as "Poor weak Caren.....her husband cheated on her, and she doesn't think enough of herself to divorce him and move on." (It's an impossibility to explain the concepts here and that it takes a far stronger person to work it out than it does to ditch the marriage.)

I feel like he's my family. We've been together for 13 years, and he isn't just someone I married, he's my family.

We talked when he told me that he took care of the car, and while we were talking I cried a little bit, and he said "Caren....please don't cry, I've made you cry enough".

So, of course, knowing me as well as you do, my overwhelming urge is to move my butt right back in there (It's not possible at this time, but I can't help feeling that way.)

So anyway, back to the original question. This man has NO IDEA what my emotional needs are....not at all. I am the master of knowing his....but at some point mine are going to have to be filled.......so EN Questionnaire this soon???


God Bless,

-Caren

P.S. I'm up this late....not worrying about my marriage...but Lauren (DD14) is ill (I'm thinking strep throat), so she woke me up because she's feeling bad.

Any Input?????????


-Caren

I wpnder if it is time for this or again you are making things happen to soon. Now you have told him about this EN's questionaire -maybe its time to wait and see if he asks. Or bring it up in a week or so. Maybe just spending time together is more important right now. I don't knwo wiser people than me should help you. Sort of like dating an getting to know each other and keep your eyes open as to if he will stick with the program -he has fallen off it so many times Caren. I believe there is a honeymoon period for all and then the real stuff steps back in..

Caren:

I agree with MM's advice to you. Take this slowly. My H stressed the need for this to me in the early stages of our R. He's coming in from OUTER SPACE..trying to get reoriented to the REAL WORLD...



He's talking to you to stay connected..to avoid regaining contact with her. THIS IS GOOD. It's not time for R talk. That will come...



I don't agree with the need to live apart. You need to be together as much as possible!!!! I don't have ideas on how you can do this logistically. I don't know your particular circumstances. My H and I lived together right away..and for us that was essential.

My H NEVER DID THE QUESTIONNAIRES..almost 3 years into a great recovery. It will be more important for you to understand and to meet his primary emotional needs and he yours. I would think this can be done without filling out the questionnaires. Ok. I'm sure this CAN be done without filling out the questionnaires...



Maintain your focus on the ENs the "in love" feelings WILL COME...Doesn't he have to go through WITHDRAWAL...for my FWH it took a FULL SIX MONTHS (with no contact with the OW) for him to be COMPLETELY out of the fog...



Caren, rethink this. I would be surprised if you have strong feelings of love for him if he has no idea how to meet your ENs.. That doesn't seem logical to me. He must be meeting some of your needs...

I don't think it's time for you to be pushy. You demonstrate loving behaviors towards him and he will be more and more loving towards you as time goes on...

Realtor-

You are probably right....that's why I post here before I do anything, because I tend to go too fast <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> Without you guys who the heck knows where I'd be now <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Mimi-

Sweetie.....thank you, thank you, thank you....you have no idea how much your last post meant to me.

I know that you did it right, you are my model of how I want my recovery to go (I know I'm not in recovery yet).

I feel that we need to be living together also, but I'm not sure how that can possibly be accomplished.

We're not spending much time together, because he works until 9pm at night, and the kids have to be in bed by 10 or 10:30 pm, so it's not like I can go over there, and he has to let the poor dogs (who've been cooped up for like 11 hours) out to do their business.

I mean even if we were living together, it would be pretty hard to get 15 hours of undivided time together....it's a challenge.

What do you suggest until we can figure out the living situation out???? He is coming over tonight (Today's his day off)......so I should stay away from relationship talk and just enjoy being together, right?

I know this recovery journey is going to be a lot more difficult.

I can tell already because I keep feeling like he should want to spend every waking minute with me....like he should want to be there making up for everything that happened. (I know realistically that isn't what should happen....Told you my taker is going nuts trying to get out).

I wonder if my apartments would let me find someone to take over my lease........I dunno.

I worry a lot about my kids too.....criminy I've only been moved out for a little less than a month...I can't be dragging them all over the place. And then what if it doesn't end up working out?!?!?!

Can you see how all over the place I am??????

Well, gotta go. But I will stop all relationship stuff and just try to enjoy our time together.

God Bless,

-Caren

RIGHT!!

Seems preferable for him to move in with you..stability for the kids..him doing most of the work...

After he finishes with the dogs, what's stopping him from coming over and SLEEPING WITH YOU....




Don't allow yourself OR HIM any excuses...THIS IS HARD WORK..not as difficult to meet the 15 hour rule as you are thinking....

Neither you nor him work 24/7. Correct?

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

You are absolutely correct Mimi.

And you're right, there's nothing stopping him from staying over with me, except that he likes to let the dogs run around at night.

I don't see why we couldn't switch off and on, I can spend the night with him on weekends, and he could surely spend a few nights a week with me.

Actually, I don't see why he couldn't just bring the dogs, I didn't read anything in my lease about dogs coming to visit <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

You're so smart Mimi <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> Thank you so much for your help.

You may notice that I am posting at 3:09 am......I took a nap after work tonight, and now at 3 o'clock in the daggone morning I'm wide awake. (Good thing it's the weekend..lol).

I've already scrubbed the bathroom from top to bottom, ran the dishwasher, cleaned the living room and done 4 loads of laundry. I'm hoping I'll tire out soon.

This is SOOOOO Weird, before the *A* my house looked terrible, piles of clutter everywhere....the dishes would sit in the sink for a day or two at a time, and laundry....SHEESH I'd pick through the dirty clothes and get out what we needed to wear the next day and wash them the night before.

Domestic Support is one of Mark's top EN's so that is why I initially started keeping the house clean. Well, were always talking about how the changes/improvements we make need to be permanent.....well lemme tell ya' this one is permanent with a vengence. *I* can't stand for the house to be dirty. I can't stand for the laundry to be undone...in fact it bother's me where there are clothes in the hamper at all...I have to stop myself from washing 4 articles of clothing (instead of waiting until there's a full load). My closets are even organized. It's unreal....Mark said again the other day (Because I think he thought I would clean up the apartment right before he got here or something) "Okay who are you....and what'd you do with my wife??" LMAO

When we were living together before we separated this time I always kept the house clean, but I guess he assumed I was just doing it for him, and thought once I had my own place that it would be back to my pre-A disarray. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

But it's not, I used to be embarrassed to have anyone over...but now you can stop by anytime, and my house is clean as a whistle (Even at 3am LOL)!!!!!

God bless,


-Caren