Mimi,
Right on about the flowers.

Caren, don't bring suspicion to where it isn't needed. Games will only complicate this. I know it feels like a game at times, but that is only if you let it get that way. I say go out of your way to safeguard your credibility right now, lest OW would use it against you.

If you do your plan b right, HE WILL DIE NOT KNOWING. Flowers won't be needed.
-hang in there

IMPORTANT THING TO REMEMBER: WSes DO NOT THINK!!! Try to disregard and ignore much of what he says. It has NO MEANING except to in some way justify the A to himself. That's all that he is concerned about...continuing his A....



You see, Caren? The communication/information to YOU through BROOKLYN...

I know....but how can I stop her from telling me things about the conversations she has with him??

I mean I want my 11 year old to be able to tell me everything.....I dunno, do I tell her...."Don't tell me what Daddy says."?

She flat refuses to omit any info to him, hence the reason he currently has my home phone number. She said "I didn't wanna NOT give it to him"

I just got back from taking Brooklyn to the store to buy her shirts for twin day. I picked her friend up too....they had fun, and they both picked out matching shirts and sunglasses.

While I was gone Mark called, and Lauren answered. He asked for Brooklyn and she said we weren't here, so he asked where we went, and of course Lauren told him.

See.....he knows my every flippin move no matter what I do!!!

She's at work.....now she's at the store, now she's home.

For goodness sake when Brooklyn calls him to tell him goodnight he asks her where I am....I can tell because she won't call until she's in bed and she sleeps in my bed with me.....so I hear her saying "She's right here".

So from the time I wake up, until the time I go to bed, he pretty much knows where I am, because my CHILDREN always know where I am.

What do I do about that?

Oh, sorry, forgot to reply about the flowers....see, this is why I post here...it "seemed" like a good idea, but you're right, it's not. I have errors in judgement about things of this nature....as you probably already know, so Thanks <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

God Bless,

-Caren

Caren:

I think it's up to you to figure out a way to stop this for your own and your daughter's best interest...

This is not PLAN B, Caren...

There's too much interaction with him...

Limit his communications with Brooklyn...arrange scheduled visitations...

If he wants such easy access to her, he needs to come home...

Generally he only sees her every other weekend. This was a fluke.

Should I limit the amount they talk on the telephone? I thought I was supposed to let them contact each other anytime they wanted.

I know I've got to figure out something for poor little Brooklyn. I don't do it to her, I don't ask her anything about her Dad, nor do I have her ask him anything.....and I don't answer the questions he asks through her, but I still think she probably feels like she's in the middle, and I don't want that.



I agree here....I'm going to have to think about this one.

I mean, they talk every morning before school, every night after school, then usually again sometime after dinner, and then before bed.

He really does love her, and she is sort of a needy child, she's really clingy with me that way too....she follows me all the way to the door telling me that she loves me and to be careful and hugs me a million times before I can get out the door to go to work. She's even gone so far as to call me on one of my early days to make sure I made it to work okay....she wouldn't get off the phone with me until I pulled into the driveway.

She has an absolute stroke if she can't get ahold of me or her Dad for any reason. It's almost like she has abandonment issues, but I have always bent over backwards to make sure my kids didn't feel that way. I was never one to *sneak out* if I was going somewhere or lie to them.

She also needs A LOT of affection, and can't stay away from home a lot of times. She can't always make it overnight if she spends the night with friends, and she even has trouble when she goes to her Dad's because she misses me so much.

She also seems excessively worried that I'll be lonely if she goes someplace....I tell her that isn't the case, but she still checks, she says "Will Lauren be home?" I ask "why" and she says "I don't want you to be lonely!!". I don't think I've ever told this child that I'd be lonely if she went somewhere....good grief, sometimes it's nice to have a little peace and quiet. I mean I ALWAYS miss my kids, but once in a while it's nice to just be alone.

*sigh*

God Bless,

-Caren

Oh mimi, I don't agree. He should spend as much time as possible with his daughter. That is another tie to the marriage, and is good for her.

So THEIR HAPPINESS has priority over your sanity and well-being? There needs to be a compromise so that this WORKS OUT FOR ALL OF YOU..

There needs to be BOUNDARIES...

Why is your 11 year old daughter sleeping with you?

I'm concerned about what I am hearing about Brooklyn..being so clingy and needy...

Seems like she may need some counseling, IMO....

Sorry...

Mimi-



She's been sleeping in my bed ever since we moved here. She doesn't want to sleep alone.

I think she'll eventually grow out of the clingy thing.....I was sorta that way too, not quite that bad, but my Mom didn't want you to *hang* on her a whole lot....so that is probably what broke me. I had the same trouble with being homesick...etc. I never went to camp or anything like that because I'd miss home too much.

She was like this before we even started having trouble...the worrying thing is worse now though.

I'm kinda depressed today. I talked to my Mom last night and she was upset over several things. My sister doing drugs...she was talking about her last night, and how much it hurt her that she was doing that, then we found out that one of Lauren's friends from church was killed in a car accident on the 20th. (Her Mom died not even a year ago from internal bleeding, she was the church secretary). Then last night she tells me that my Aunt Donna is dying. She was being treated for cancer, but apparently they weren't able to get it all. They live in California, but her and my uncle just flew into Ohio to be with her children and they have hospice coming in and everything. But that she's too sick for company and just wants to see her kids/grandkids.

I feel so bad for my Mom and my daughter <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

Well, I gotta get in the shower and get to work. I'll check back in after work.

God Bless,

-Caren

I see your point with this, Believer.

However, Caren's WH seems to be doing SOME GAME-PLAYING, USING Brooklyn as a means to get to Caren. I'm not sure his contacts are always aimed at wanting to do what's best for Brooklyn. What's best for Brooklyn is for him to come home. Until that time, it's best for him to FOCUS on Brooklyn and not on what her mother is doing...

I worry about Brooklyn and so identify with her.

She needs to be protected from the WS "DADDY"...but does need time with her REAL DADDY. I hope enough of the REAL DADDY is coming through during their contacts..

I guess I see this as a BALANCING ACT that needs to be HANDLED WITH CARE...as best as Caren can under these unfortunate circumstances...

HANG IN THERE, CAREN..so sorry to hear about your family's sadness...

I would agree that his daughter is a tie to the family. However, she isn't going anywhere. Part of a separation is losing those family connections. She isn't in plan a, she is in plan b. Contact becomes limited. This is a pseudo divorce.

If Caren meets another man, how do you think this new fella would feel about her x calling the house 3-4 times a day. I can tell ya right now, I wouldn't allow it. Caren, your husband is USING your daughter to keep tabs on you. HONESTLY, if he loved her sooooo much that he needed to talk to her that many times a day, HE WOULDN'T BE HAVING AN AFFAIR, jeopardizing her future. I believe you see your daughter doing anything she can to keep you two together, and for her, that means just talking about you to your husband. It's crap, we all know it, but she's 11, and that is her reality.

I would talk to your WH and tell him, your phone calls are disrupting my house that I'm trying to maintain. They disturb me. These are some of the consequences of your actions. I'm tired of you checking up on me through our daughter. If your calls were pointed at just her, and her days, that would be different, however, you continue to check on me and what I'm doing. That is not what your relationship with our daughter is supposed to be about. You can stop this behavior on your own, or I will have to take legal action for our own protection.

I would maybe talk to a lawyer, and see what rights you have in your state for controlling the contact. I'm sure that you have the ability to limit phone calls while the child is under your custody.

-hang in there

Rook, I highly agree with you.

I think you say this well.

Like you, I'm concerned about Brooklyn being used...

This is not a HEALTHY FATHER..MAINTAINING CONTACT with his daughter..

It is Caren's job as the reasonably sane parent to PROTECT her daughter from him while MAINTAINING PARENTAL CONTACT..That's the BALANCING ACT that I was referring to..

Again, WELL SAID, Rook....

I can try.....but I'm telling you anything I say makes him do the opposite. If I call him or write him and tell him this it's only going to make him do it 40 times more often. That's how he operates as of late.

I don't have the money to go to a lawyer right now. I think I'm just going to have to find activities in the evening that keep us busy away from home, so that he *can't* call. That's the only thing I can think of.

Rook, you're right, I can see what your saying, if this didn't work out and there was someone new in my life they wouldn't tolerate him calling 4 million times a day. That makes sense.

I absolutely KNOW that he's keeping tabs on me via her.....I know last night after I posted and went to bed she was talking to him on the phone, telling him goodnight and I heard her say "Yeah.....she's right here....Yeah."

Of course I didn't even have to guess what they were talking about. He's asking her if I'm in bed. So he truly does know every fricken move I make.

I am supposed to start going to the gym and working out on Saturday(I get have a free month trial membership).....and as we know, he'll find out about it. He's not going to be one little bit happy about that, but I have to do something....I can't just sit here....I can't do it anymore!!!!


Okay gotta take Lauren to the funeral home for her friends showing.

God Bless,

-Caren

Caren,

Honestly, when he calls, tell your daughter she is not allowed to discuss you with him. She can talk about her day with him, and she is allowed 2 calls a day, at reasonable times. Nothing later than 8 pm at night. She is 11, not 16. As for him asking if you are in bed...rofl.

CAREN!!!! Open your eyes. Why do you think he is so concerned about you? Why does he care about everything you do or where you [ahem] 'sleep'? Because, he's cake eating, and he is gonna keep on going as long as you enable him to. Cut the phone calls off. She is allowed, YES ALLOWED, to talk to him 1/day, at like 3:30 in the afternoon, when she comes home from school. That is the part of her day that he can have information about. If she wants to write down activities she did with you and share them with him at a different time, time while he has custody, then so be it. I think that you can read in post after post here, that when a parent leaves the house, they forfeit ALL SORTS of rights that they thought were theirs. The cold hard facts are that they abandoned the family unit when they walked out the door. You have the power.

I know it doesn't feel that way...but, I believe the instant you show this insecure, clingy man that you are fed up to --here-- with his games, you are gonna see a drastic change. And honestly, any change right now would do you good, even if it were him going and finally filing for a divorce (yeah right, like he can even afford that, huh?). How little does he understand that if he can't afford to help you out, he can't afford a divorce.

If you have to go drastic, take drastic measures. BLOCK HIS PHONE NUMBER. Then you can choose when you or your daughter call him. Each new number = a new block. File harassment charges on him. Make it clear you are done with the childish behavior and you aren't playing games, you want to live your life. You aren't gonna settle for seconds, you want the life God made for you. Don't let him dangle you and your daughter for his own twisted enjoyment.

GRRRR! Can ya see I'm a bit angry?

-hang in there

LOL RookKev, I can see that.

I'm hanging in there <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I haven't heard from him at all today, which is okay by me.

I'm on day 5 of Plan B (I counted Sunday as day 1), and so far so good...on my part anyway.

What do you think the chances are that Mark will get bored with knowing my whereabouts?? Probably slim to none, eh?

I don't understand....if he is still playing with OW, or someone else (and I have no idea if that's the case or not) wouldn't they be mad that he is constantly checking on me?
I dunno, I wouldn't think anyone would put up with that....

God Bless,

-Caren

No, it adds to the mystery / excitement for them. It's still a forbidden fruit, and they get an ego boost for dominating it.

It's a sick world they live in... don't try to apply reason to it, all you end up is confused, hurt, and pissed off.

btw, i used to play pool.. about 8 hours a day.. lots and lots of 9 ball, $10/rack. I sure did seem to have alot of cash in my youth.. you'd think now that I make a billion times more money, I'd have some cash... NOT!

RookKev-



What on earth are you talking about??? LOL!!!! I'm confused!!

God Bless,

-Caren

Caren, you need WH TRAINING...

Don't put him past him to call you/Brooklyn, hang up and call her and then talk to her at length....He definitely would not let her know that he is calling Brooklyn that often...

I think Rook is agreeing with me that this may even drive him to the OW...enable the A. It probably relieves his guilt...saying to himself.. Brooklyn's life hasn't changed..I'm still a good-enough Dad.. Caren is still there waiting while I'm out here playing...GET IT?

Rook explains this soooo well....

Hi Caren -

Just popping in to see how you are doing! Glad you got to feeling better BTW.

I agree that Mark's contact with Brook needs to be limited somewhat. There is just too much info flowing here....

I think Mimi has a good suggestion with that -

Take care!

Kim

Ugh! I'm having the anxiety attack from he// this morning.

I am thinking.....what if I screwed up? What if it's too late?? What if I just strengthened his resolve that he doesn't need me? Arrrrgh!

I hate this BS. I have to get the kids to school.

I'm trying to decide how to tell Brooklyn that their calls are going to be limited.

God Bless,

-Caren

Of course, you DID NOT screw up!

He is the one with the SCREWS LOOSE!

You will have A PLAN!

He's living from MINUTE to MINUTE...

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />