I think he is the type of guy who does these things and says these things looking for your reaction.

He's analyzing your reactions to get a feel for your positions, rather than just talking to you about it. Maybe he feels like he can't trust what you say, so he has to test it.

By saying you should run back to your ex, he's looking to see what kind of statement you give back -- vehemently denying your ex, outrage, or maybe you shrug your shoulders. And he has an analysis of what that all means. It gives him the answers he thinks he needs.

I think he's a button pusher. Trying to get reactions out of you.

AmericanBeauty,
I do appreciate the views others have given me...I know that no relationship is flawless or without red flags. I think I tend to overlook some red flags - knowing that they are the ones that I CAN overlook and live with...I just expected more understaning and patience on his part.

The comment that was made regarding crawling back to X was back in 2004 and has not been said again. I did let him know that that comment was very undeserving and very out of line...I think he realizes/realized that was something that should've never been said.

It is a very difficult situation to be in...however, my gut today is telling me to take things slow...to not comprimise my wants and desires (start fresh, new house, etc). After all that has happened, I don't feel like I should be the one giving up everything to make everyone else happy...We may never get married...I have grown a great deal post divorce, have become an extremely positive person, and am ok with knowing that we may not make it as a couple. I hope the latter is not the case...but I feel I have been so supportive of him and his feelings/decisions/changes he's had to make/ etc. that that is how I should be treated.

I believe he has been punishing himself for the dis-engagement. I on the otherhand have let him know that I value his choices/decision/thoughts - may not agree with them - but they are his and they are real - just as mine are. I'm hoping that by my continuing to be myself, he will see what a loss it would be to lose me!

Yes, I'm disappointed that the chips fell this way, but I truly believe that things happen for a reason...

Lexxy,
I do tend to believe that he is a button pusher also...but I think he is finding out that it's not getting him anywhere with me...only creating more damage.

I don't think he thought everything through as he should have...or the reaction that I displayed was not the one he had expected.

I miss the ring that was once on my finger...I truly wanted to marry this man...I still do...just not sure if it will happen soon enough for him...but I have made a promise to myself, that I will not do something that I am not 100% in agreement to - so it may never happen.

Thanks for your insights.

I don't know if you watch Oprah or not but Tuesdays' show was really good,about women who lose themselves in marriage.Lance Armstrongs' wife was on as was a Psychologist Oprah has on from time to time,Dr. Robin Smith.She has a new book out called,"Lies at the Altar".It sounded like a good book.I will probably get it.Just a suggestion <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I don't catch Oprah...I have satellite but cant get regualr tv...
I believe I lost myself in my first marriage...I did and became everything that x wanted...from getting into a religion I was not sure of to taking responsiblity for everything around the house...X had to only work his 40 hours (when he wasn't out of town working for months on end) and I took care of everything else...I strived to please him - yet did not get the affection I needed from him.

Now for the first time (turning 40 this year) I am the person I feel I was always meant to be. I'm happier now than I've ever been and am striving to be the best person I can be - for myself and towards others - and I'm doing a great job at it - IMOHO!

Bump
Question: Do I now just let things ride or do I need to come out and tell him that I have decided not to move into the home he shared with his X?
I really hate the thought of losing him, but I cannot allow myself to give in to this...I kinda figure the ball will be back in his court as to whether in a couple of years he would consider moving or not...

suggestions/comments?

Based on the statement below from your previous post, I would say, don't lose yourself again.
What ever it takes for you to keep striving to be yourself and being happy being yourself is where you should be.


Good luck!
Karona

Karona,
Thank you. I just don't want to lose him...but can't settle either...I'm one to believe that whatever happens, happens for a reason...but I can now clearly see that I would not be happy in his home - I just have to be able to handle the outcome.

I think you are setting yourself up for a crash landing if this is how you expect things to happen.

Think about what you are saying: you are creating a boundary of never moving into his house - fine, we don't need to debate the basis of that boundary, it is yours to own, as are the consequences of that boundary. However, you already know that he has a conflicting boundary - he does not want to move out of his house.

So, if you expect him to respect your boundary, why are you then hoping that he will change his? It is not fair.

The ball is not in his court at all, really. Saying that it is is somewhat manipulative, IMO. It's basically saying "well, I am not giving up on my wants, so if he wants me, he'll give up on his". Yet you already know that he does not want to give up on his. So, instead of negotiating, you are manipulating by saying that it's up to him. It's not. It's up to both of you.

Really, Diamonds, the one thing that has concerned me throughout this thread is the apparent lack of respectful negotiations between you two - you two are simply building up boundaries and saying "my way or the highway", hoping the other person will give in. You won't move in, he breaks off the engagement, you say "I'll never move in", and so it goes... That is a very poor pattern for a marriage, and IMO it should concern you more than the living arrangement question.

AGG

Agg,


I'm not expecting him to give in and move. I only meant that he would be in a position to either accept that I would not move into his home and continue the relationship as it is, or he has the option of bailing out - I truly respect his choice of staying in his home. It's just not fair to either one of us if we have marriage on our agendas.

I dont feel that I have been unfairly negotiating. I have offered to move to his town, blend with his kids, and increase my commute to 1 hour each way. I'm not sure how we would negotiate any further...what can we do at this point? What has he offered me?

I know at your standpoint, it may look like a poor pattern for marriage, but I don't feel that way. We are not throwing it up in each other's face...it just happens to be a very difficult and fragile situation with no light at the end that I can see - that's why I was reaching out for enlightenment and encouragement -

I know that. But, you are also saying that he would have to move in order for you to get married. Ergo, you are either dating him because you simply enjoy the dating process without marriage expectations, or you are biding your time hoping that he will change his mind. What is absent in this equation is even the possibility of you changing your mind.


In other words, you are saying that it's up to him to agree to your rule or to bail out - you are basically placing the entire responsibility on his shoulders. I don't see why he should change his boundary any more than you should change yours. That is what is bothering me - you are not negotiating, you are building boundaries and saying "I am not budging, but I love you, and if you want me, you know what to do".


But you hope he will change that at some point. Otherwise, why are you still dating him after he broke off the engagement?


Maybe not. So why are you expecting that only he should consider changing his boundary?


I didn't say you negotiated unfairly, I said you did not negotiate. Example of negotiation:

"Honey, I am having trouble living in your ex's house, what options are there?"

"Well, gosh, how about we repaint all the walls?"

"Oh, I dunno, I think that is still too much like "her" house. What about building an addition to the back of the house?"

"Well, that may work... Or what if we agree to live here for two years, but then after my son goes to college, we will look for a new house elsewhere?"

"That sounds good, or maybe blah blah blah".

Example of what I feel you have been doing:

"Honey, I can't live in this house, can you move?"

"No"

"Well, I can't live there"

"OK, then the wedding is off".

"Fine, let me know if you change your mind"

"Sure...can we still date and have sex for now?"

"Sure, I don't want to control you, and I won't change, but let me know if you do".


That's OK, that is just how I see it from what you are posting.


I think you are.


I am trying to offer enlightenment <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />. As far as encouragement, I lost that after hearing of his "crawl back on your knees to your XH" comment, sorry.

Diamonds, it's up to you what you do, of course. I am simply suggesting that if you two really love each other, that you give true negotiation a fair shake, instead of building up competing boundaries. And if you truly cannot find a solution, and you want to get married as you say, then why date him hoping he will change?

AGG

AGG,
I don't even know where to begin with your post back to me...It was brought up at the very beginning of our dilemma about possibly moving when his son (now 9) was graduated from HS - but he couldnt even give me that hope...I'm not one to nag - so I have not brought that up again. Again, this is his choice.

And of course, Yes, I am hoping that in time, either one of us could possibly change our minds...I'm not forcing him to, I'm not expecting him to, and I understand if it doesn't happen.

We were in the middle of redecorating when the engagement was called off - this to me did not help my coming around and moving into his home. I was truly working my way that way.

Regarding the comment he made to me about crawling back...I do not hold that against him. Yes, it hurt, but that type of comment has not been made again. I have let that go. This I have learned to do from my previous marriage as this was not the case for either my X or me to do. It did not help the marriage - this helped destroy it.

As far as negotiations are concerned, I feel that he has not given me any options...
HIM: yes, we can redecorate. Yes, we can build your potting shed. No, I will not move. No, I will not move in 10 years.
ME: Let's redecorate, paint, and see how things feel for me...take it one day at a time...son is still in HS.
HIM: Engagement called off.

I am not placing all the responsibility on him...I just feel that we are at a standstill...I was willing to look 10 years down the road, and he couldn't give that to me...guess it's good that he's being honest about it...just as I am trying to be with my feelings and emotions.
I merely was suggesting, that if we both gave it more time, circumstances may change on either one of our parts. If he cannot let time go by, then he has the option of letting me go...just as I have the option of letting him go if I feel that we are headed no where...

Things regarding his X is the past has not helped. She was very intimidating when G and I first started seeing each other. She stalked me, made threatening calls, and has made me very uncomforable - I have never in my life called anyone evil. This she is.

I have to see her at his kid's games, concerts, school activities. I do not wish to continually be reminded about her in MY OWN HOME!!

I love this man with all my heart. I always will no matter what direction we go in our lives. I just want us both to be happy and not give in to make the other happy while destroying our own happiness. I just can't seem to find the way.

Not that I don't understand you, but...
It comes to: what does prevail, what is stronger - your love for him and wish to be with him, or the fact his x lived (past tense) in that house?
If the second... is that love really?
(Or I idealize love...? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/ooo.gif" alt="" />)

I have been mulling over my situation and I believe that I have come to a conclusion: the relationship as it is is not working, there is no compromise on his part, and I am being bombarded with red flags.

This may have been where the perverbial straw comes in:
On Friday, June 9th, I came home from work exhausted. I knew that his daughter had a softball game and he would be home late in the evening. He called to invite me over. I declined as it was going on 8:00 and I have an elderly aunt that I take care of on Saturdays...
His comments were: Dont get mad at me when I tell you that I am tired and don't want to do something.

I have always given him the option of doing or not doing something as I know that he does work hard...

We go to the movies with his kids on Saturday...things seem strained...he drops me off afterwards...no mention of our next day together.

My son had his graduation on Sunday, June 11...G called me around noon and said he would not be attending...his kids did not want to go...so, I attended alone. This I am gathering was already planned on his part because I had declined doing anything on Friday night...

I drove out to his house Sunday evening to discuss my hurt feelings...I was there for approximately 20 minutes when he looked at me and said that if I was there to chew his butt out, I could just leave.

I picked up my can of pop and proceeded to my car...he followed behind me saying that if I left, to never come back and to never step foot on his property. I flung my can in his yard and got into my car...I then threw him the letter I had written him on Sunday morning (before I knew he wouldn't be going to Graduation).

The letter basically said that at this point in my life, I don't feel that our relationship was working out...I felt that he has not been there for me in the few times that I have really needed him. I wished him happiness.

We have been talking, but I don't believe that we will ever resolve these hurt feelings...

I still love him and this is probably the worst that I have felt in a long time...but I feel he has acted unfairly for quite some time. I wanted someone to be there for me, just as I have ALWAYS been there for him. I have always offered my support, encouragement and suggestions.

On a side note: I was working in my yard a couple of weeks ago, and his X drove past my house...this to me made me quit second guessing that I could live in her house...I know for a fact that I cannot - but at this point, it really doesn't matter anymore does it?

Sounds like the house issue was the culmination of other problems that forced things to this point.

[color:"purple"]This kind of childish high school drama seems to me to be "red flag city"...

People usually hook up with other people that have behaviors and beliefs that complement or match their own.

He must have at one time been quite happy with his psychotic ex. Which may tell you a little bit about him.

Either he is a calm tolerant person who tends to "take" what really psychotic people dish out, or he is a drama king and actively participated in her dramas because it seemed normal.

Now the calm tolerant dude I'd take any day of the week. The drama king - I'll take a pass thank you.

V. [/color]

Not surprising, coming from a guy who told you earlier to crawl back to your ex on your hands and knees.

You are so lucky to not have married this man, Diamonds. Count your blessings.

AGG

... and maybe he's just hurt (too)...

AGG,
I am counting my blessings at this point...it's just sad. After knowing him 6 years, and being "involved" for 3, I still have intense feelings for him - and still love him...the "infactuation stage" is still there. I just can't take the chance with him that I thought I could...

Belonging2Myself,
He may be hurt, but that was very uncalled for...I have told him from the beginning that I wanted to be able to communicate our feelings (our true feelings) and this has not seemed to be the case with him. I keep finding out that he did this and this and this, but really didn't want to, was too tired too, blah blah blah. Had he come out and told me his TRUE feelings, we couldve dealt with it, instead of me now feeling that I can't/don't want to ask for his help and such...

I had this problem with my X. After a while, I quit voicing my opinions, problems, and such. This led to the ulitmate blowup. I have vowed to myself that this will not happen again.

All that I can do at this point is learn more about communication, relationships, etc. to make myself a better person...

Diamond, he comes across as harsh & unkind. It sounds as though he doesn't know how to share his feelings openly with you & his communication skills are lacking.

Did you two ever consider counseling?