***** let me preface this with an apology of how long this, its so long no one with probably read it.... Please, Please do <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />********
Hi everyone,
I am new around here but this is not my first post, and strangly enough I felt more comfortable first replying to other people's posts before posting my own issue. Don't really know why I thought I was wise enought to offer someone else advice, when I have my own mess to deal with, but I did anyway...LOL I just felt really compelled to do so.

My backround: ME: 39
Husband 40
Known my husband for 18 years, married 12
Two kids, boys 4 and 9

My biggest question (to be right to the point) is how to I approach my husband about working on our marriage? I can't seem to find a way to approach him, I know the hurt he will feel, fear I feel to do this, and countless other emotions that make this difficult are unavoidable, but I don't think he is going to be very receptive to it, I need a way that wont make him defensive, attacked, but he needs to be pulled out of denial(he thinks he's happy). I am afraid he will respond in one of two ways, depending on his mood and/or how I bring it up:

1.) Denial- very much a part of his personality, he will respond with "oh, honey come on there's nothing wrong with us, we just need to be nicer to each other, I love you, i know i am a jerk, i'm sorry, It's fine"

2.) Big ole burst of anger- "screw you, your the one with the problem, you get help, what? you don't love me anymore? What did I ever do to you? What crap have you been reading/ who put this idea in you head?"

I know they are drastically different responses, but he is definately capable of both, one time i did slip in Marriage counceling into a heated argument(bad timing I know) once a couple years ago and did give me a 'it's you not me response', "you go to counceling, your the one who needs it."

I realize you guys are going to need more backround, to really answer or help me. I will try to give a brief summary(not my strong quality) as to the point we are at:

I am in the withdrawal state of marriage, he is in conflict (it is amazing how dead on these(harely's) discriptions are).
I am at the the point of, do i even bother my H about this and put him through it, and spend the hudge amount of time and effort I's going to take to fix, when I am not sure its worth it, although i feel some kind of love for my H, I am no longer "in love with him"(hard to write that-ouch), most of the time I just don't like him, or who he is or who he has become, and he may feel the some of the same of me but he would never dig that deep or admit it to himself. I spent alot of my thoughts on how we would seperate, financiallly, custody, how to protect the kids throught it(they are the reason i am still in it). Its too hard so i just want to walk away. BUT.......Intellectually I know thats unfair to everyone involved, immature, irresponsible, cope out etc etc....So I want to see if its savable. BUT... he has no idea i am at this point....I think... Few years back I wrote a letter(not nasty) from the heart explaining I don't know whos fault or if it matters but what we had is gone and I am here for the kids only. Nothing came of that except once in a bl0w out fight he threw it in my face(maybe rightfully so) "doesn't matter anyway I know your only here till the kids grow up (insert sarcasm)" But he has such a denial mechanism I am sure at this point and many other instances he chalks it up to: we all say things we don't mean in the heat of an argument, its not true, she didn't mean it, so I became a silent disgrunted spouse, when once I had no problem with confronting him about anything(hense lots of huge fights). Withdrawal is where i ended up, and to get you right to the point: I sleep on the couch most of the time(don't know how many years, was in fact this years resolution to change it, I try, its hard, dont know why)husband jokes about it) and we have had sex twice in 4 years, yes you read that right, my husband's denial will argue with that stat, it is fact, we joke about that too.

So much for brief(told ya)! LOL sorry

HOW did we get to where we are? I could start listing all the things I don't like about my husband, all that I feel he has "done" to me(i don't mean it the way that sounds), all he has not done, character flaws and the like, I'd love to blam him for it all, I have in the past, Then the other side I beat up myself and think I am crap, I know its both, and beleive me i would love to address all his issues, our issues, and my issues, because i have read so so soooooooooo many enlightening things from some really caring and insightful people(I hope they find this!!)
on other peoples threads and would love input and support.

NUTSHELL: my love bank is empty (sure his isn't great either)
For years our ability to fill(or want to fill) each others EN's has steadily declined, my capasity to even begin to fill his EN's paralizes me and makes me feel like a bratty 12 year old "I don't want to!"

He is king of bad habits and I the Queen of Independant behaviour.

There is almost no POJA in our marriage

We fight over all the petty stuff and never address the big underlying stuff

Porn was a looong ago (resolved?)issue, but left scars i am only now realizing

alcohol is a factor, not sure to what extent (him, not me)

I have issues,, I openly admit to, hash out with friends, do the self help books, always trying to analyze myself and improve(do not know how successful i have been) Have always been aware of our marrital problems and read boks ect.

He doesn't think he has issues I am sure, but boy does he, i don't think he evr analyzes himself, comes from the denial family, won't say a bad word about his parents, or me probably to anyone even though at times I can see pure hate(about me) in his eyes.

On the surface our household runs like a top, we both work, we have phenomenal kids(who are my world), share house duties pretty well, don't fight about money(well except a newly developed blip), we hiss and sigh alot but try not to fight in front of kids, can have volital(sp?) fights when they're in bed, we look fine on the outside, our house is more like running a business(we do it well) than seeing two affectionate people, I am not unaware of the fact that the kids will pick up on this(big stuggle for me, part of why I don't want to 'do my time' and leave when they grow up, i don't want them to learn that we are how its soposed to be).

Okay I just need to end this or it will be a 500 page book.


I know its a communication problem to start with, and that I have to approach him with this to get anywhere, can't make the first step, we are jokers, he's the real joker I am a wise-[censored] ball buster type(just fresh) so when I am in a calm state I look at him an the thought of saying anything about this cause me to feel like breaking out and laughing, stange reaction i know but it feels silly. Bringing it up in the heat of an argument I know is wrong and will make him defensive and when I am mad at him (everyday it seems) about even petty things... In my mind i go right to "just another reason to just divorse him, I don't want to even work on it, I like nothing about him, why did I ever marry him, I'll call a lawyer tommorrow"(its not right to jump to that thought from a pet peeve argument), I think it would blow him away that I think this.

And just to add... If he knew I posted this publiclly or even knew I had discusions like this with others (friends)he would be crushed, both by my feelings and that I would ever tell anyone.

and to complicate things, a couple close to us has just started marriage counceling and told us(seperately) of their troubles(although I know he(my husband) knows but he doesn't know I know other than the small tidbid he(my husband) shared( I actually know more than he, oh.. another tangley web for our marriage), my husband was deeply affected/distaught by this news( I think because it struck a cord, hit too close to home, If it can happen to them it can happen to me kinda thing, plus of course he felt very badly for the husband).

My husbands going to think I'm bringing it up because of them, which partially is true, I don't want to end up where they are, I have been waiting to long to address this.

But he will look at it as though "oh, they have problems, so know we do? did she put crap in your head", kindaa thing. The woman in that relationship and I seem to have parrallel lives, from the day I first met her and noticed her library of books contained all the same books as mine. So its not that were in COhoots(sp?) as it may look i can give you many examples of how she and i end up at the places in our lives(at the same time) without ever even consulting each other, its freaky. We aren't even people that in the past years keeps in close contact, but when we see each other we always have so much in common we end up sharing very personal stuff(yes we talked about our failing marriages before she dropped the bomb on her husband, I did not know she was to the point she was at, I thought my marriage was closer to the crapper than hers).Sorry off on another direction. POINT:It is coinsidence we are both at the same kind of point in our marriage (someone get this girl an editor!)
he will not see that, and I will have to defend that before I even get to my feelings his denial, or marrriage counceling. Its a factor.

done now ...help

TD

I disagree.... But first, let me say Welcome to marriage builders. I don't know that I qualify as a veteran but I did stay at a Holiday Inn, once....

That all being said "What are you willing to do?" Your above statements and some of the other tones suggest limited willingness because you seem to hint that anything you do will only reactionary to what he does. By taking this attitude you not only give him power of you, you also make him resposible for your happiness. So "What are you willing to do?"

You mentioned some character flaws of your own. Fix 'em. That changes the dynamics and then things change. Let's play for pretends that you truly do know your husbands emotional needs and are choosing not to meet any of them whether it's because of withdrawal or the 12 yo fit doesn't matter, what happens if you all of a sudden excessively meet his top 5 needs? Will things remain the same? Of course not.

In the entire post you wrote up there, you only have power and control over one person and that is you. You can yield that power positevely and continue to yield it negatively. And either of those you can do all by yourself and things will change.

Just remember, if you always do what you’ve always done, you’ll always get what you’ve always got. Because nothing ever changes if nothing ever changes.

LH,
Thanks so much for responding, I am posted in two places(emotion) didn't know which was appropriate.

I have to go to work(i mean litterally)now, but I will respond later(have to think on that queation too, its a good one)

my instant reaction is willing to do for HIM? not much, knee jerk reaction-why should I, don't want to, like a fear of heights sensation, just can't, i am mad or resentful or something, i don't know, and i know it sounds selfish, do I just really don't care about him,? that I find it almost replulsive(too strong)to do something to make him happy fill his EN's

willing to do in general... alot, read, learn here, go to conceling alone, etc

I will reread your post tonight, and try to answer better, without my knee jerk type response.

Thanks
TD

PS I have read alot of your posts in others threads

You will probably get many more responses on EN board.