First, I would like to say this is very theraputic & I've never even BEEN to one of these forums before so thank you in advance for your help.

My wife & I have been married for 14 years with 3 children and just the normal marriage problems. By that I mean her family, my family, etc. There have never been any issues with infedelity or even mistrust. I trust my wife & she trusts me.

For various reasons she has not had alot of close friends throughout her life. We are from Canada and her parents moved to California during her 5 High School years. We have discussed over the years the fact that she really had only two close friends in High School, one male & one female.

She had a falling out with her female friend about 10 years ago. This has bothered her over the years that she has no idea what happened to some of the other people she knew in high school. She has kind of lost that part of her life.

The male friend was her boyfriend for 6 months & they have not spoken in 20 years. She thought that he hated her & he thought that she hated him.

Well a couple of months ago, after 20 years he contacted her through Classmates. She was emotional that he contacted her & when I asked what was wrong she said "That's really nice".

He has been with his wife for 18 years & they have children.

They e-mail at work to get caught up & talk to each other as well. She told me this from day one and was not hiding anything from me. I did not have a problem with this at all until I found out that they speak almost every day.

Even though they live literally 5,000 miles from each other, I put stupid things in my head almost like she is cheating on me.

Of course, I started going through her cell phone bill &

I'm not mad at all, I'm hurt. We have discussed it many times & she has told me again & again they are old friends.
He has his life & she has hers and that I am dilusional for thinking the way I do. If he was female there would not be a problem, or gay (ha ha). It's just the fact that he is male.
If they spoke once a week I would be fine with it but it's the fact that it is almost every day that freaks me out. She says that she doesn't keep track of how often they speak. Sometimes it is every day sometimes it's not. She has stated that I cannot tell her not to talk to him. Which I told her I would never do that. It is just the frequency that bothers me.

I just don't understand why I feel this way. I have this lump in my throat like she has rejected me. We still make love once a week or two just like the past 14 years so nothing has changed that way.

Please give me some advise. I have positive days when I think what an idiot I am for feeling this way & then there are other days that I cannot stop thinking about it.

Thanks

PTRacing...

Oh God NOOOOOOOO!!! I can not tell you how fast that my heart was racing in reading your post and now typing this one, it's going even faster...THAT IS MY STORY, almost EXACTLY...HS/college boyfriend...broke up 13 years ago instead of 20....contacted me through classmates.com last Feb...we talked and emailed just as much as your W and her ex bf(it WILL get more frequent, I promise)...we lived 750 miles apart instead of 5000...I used the "if it was a girl you wouldn't care" thing...BOTTOM LINE, I HAD AN AFFAIR!!! Emotional and then eventually went back to my hometown to visit and it became physical...

What your wife is doing is called an emotional affair, make no mistake about it. She is allowing this man to meet some of her emotional needs-that's your job! This is the slippery slope of all slippery slopes...the feelings of a "new" relationship combined with history is DEADLY...this man is a HUGE threat to the security of your marriage...PERIOD!!!

Read EVERYTHING on this site...pay special attention to Plan A.

Buy the book Surviving An Affair and read it

Print out the Emotional Needs Questionaires on this site and do them with your wife, if she refuses, fill in hers the best that you can and implement plan A at once!

You have to stop this before it goes any further

Call this man's wife and let her know that your wife and her husband are in constant contact, you can bet that she does not know, and she needs to!

Your wife is playing with fire...I would welcome email correspondence with her about this if she would be open to it(my addy is in my signature line)...

I know what I am talking about here...I implore you to listen to me about this, and be proactive...

I am sorry that you are dealing with this...I will be glad to help you in any way that I can...

Best,

Mrs. Wondering

This is an emotional affair (EA).

Also, it's not just a "male friend", it's a former boyfriend.

She may not think she's getting in over her head (he may not either), but they are. Gradually, perhaps, but inexorably.

Steve Harley once said that an "affair is what your spouse thinks it is." If your'e ill at ease about her friendship, and there's nothing for you 2 worry about, she should be more than willing 2 assure you in whatever way you need her 2, that nothing inappropriate is going on. One way 2 do that would be 2 include you in the conversations and cc you on all the emails. If this sounds unreasonable 2 her, then you have your answer.

Classmates and other similar websites are poisonous 2 marriages. I had been on Classmates before discovering my W's A 4 years ago - 2 make contact with male friends from HS. One of those friends dropped is name off about 4 years ago, after his M broke up (though I never found out why, I have my suspiscions). 2 or 3 others subsequently removed their names. I never hooked up with old flames that way, but I removed my name about a year ago nevetheless.

Life is full of making difficult either-or exclusive choices. Choices of where 2 live and raise a family. Choices of who 2 have "meet your needs" for intimacy - not just physcial, but emotional as well. Your W made the conscious decision 2 forsake this former boyfriend when she married you, and her former BF made the same decision and promise 2 his own W when he married her.

This "friendship" should be completely transparent and above board with both spouses - you and the "friend's" wife. Or it should be pinched off now and forever.

-ol' 2long

Thanks for replying.

My point is that she has been COMPLETELY up front with me from the MOMENT that he contacted her. She is not hiding anything.
I cannnot express enough the emotional problems she has had through the years with not having friends and I really believe that the basis of them communicating is just for that reason. He is a friend that she knew 20 years ago.

Our relationship is fantastic & she has assurred me that I am making a mountain out of a little thing. She does not travel for any reason so I don't have the fear they are going to meet somewhere 2,500 miles in the middle.

We just bought a new house 6 months ago, have the three kids, two cars, both have good jobs, etc.
We communicate well & have fun together. She assures me that nothing has changed.

So the friendship IS above board.

I think that asking her this and gaging her reaction is a good idea...BUT, I just wanted to add that my h was around many times during our conversations AND was included in some of the joke emails...I even told my H about a lot of the stuff that the OM and I were talking about...Because this was an old "friend" of mine, my husband didn't see the harm in it...it was the ultimate smoke screen.

PT, you need to put a keylogger on your home computer, TODAY. Go buy a voice activated digital recorder, and put it in her car...I understand that the pocket on the back of the driver's seat is a good place to put it...please be on top of this...

Mrs. Wondering

Ditto to what Mrs Wondering has said. I also had an A with an old boyfriend. My H was aware of the interaction, I talked to OM on the phone with H in the room (I talked more to OM with H not in the room). After a few months of phone calls and one meeting for coffee, I ended up leaving my H and OM moved to my state a few months later.

First, let me just say that after I first posted to you, I went and told my husband that your reply to me was going to say almost verbatim what you said here. Also, I called my husband the instant that I received the email from my ex bf...refer to my last post about how very upfront I was about being in contact with him. I am relocated and also have very much missed having friends...felt isolated...what a perfect loophole for the "friend" to slip through.

I'm begging you to listen to me on this...your wife's relationship with this man IS inappropriate for a married woman...you will regret it later if you don't listen to me about this...I do not want to scare you away, I want more than anything to help you...you and your wife have no idea how much danger this man represents to your intact family...Do you realize that TONS of people in happy marriages have affairs?



Be honest with yourself...if you believed this you would not have sought out and posted on an infidelity forum...your gut is dead on...follow your instincts...you will be so glad that you did...

Mrs. Wondering

"So the friendship IS above board."

This is absurd, and you know it.

But I see I'd be repeating Mrs W's remarks, so there's no need for me 2 go further.

-ol' 2long

We talked about this ALOT last weekend. To the point where she was angry at me for making it into something. She said "I'm not doing anything wrong" and that I am the one with the problem.

As I said, the emotional problems with having no friends has occured for years. This isn't just some convenient excuse she has come up with.

Also, I'm afraid to even say to her again that I am feeling really uneasy. She has said that I need to move on & get over it. It's my problem because she is not doing anything inappropriate.

Well friend...now it's up to you to decide if you're willing to fight for your marriage or not.

My wife had an EA with someone she'd never met in person before. It started as something online, with someone we both gamed with. It too was "above board", because I knew she was playing online games with him, and would often join them. Of course, what I DIDN'T know was that it eventually progressed to them IM'ing each other outside of the game...and then to them exchanging emails and calls. Got to the point where they were 'in love'...and planning on seeing if what they felt was 'real in person'.

All this time, I was still gaming together with the both of them...feeling uncomfortable, feeling like she valued the time with him more than me...but since I didn't KNOW that something was wrong, I took no action. I did finally talk with my wife the week before d-day about what I was feeling. She told me that it was nothing...he was just a friend...and that I had absolutely nothing to worry about. Of course, this was all at the exact same time that they were calling each other everyday, spending the whole day IM'ing, and trying to decide on what their future together would be like. But when I finally saw her trying to close a chat session window so I couldn't see what was in it, I KNEW that she was lying to me about this.

Get the picture?

Then, I got my proof by using a keylogger to capture her IM sessions with him for about 5 days. When I confronted her with that, he bought her plane tickets so that she could go live with him...and she moved into a motel room for a few days until the flight. Again...this is all to be with someone she didn't even know...it's far harder to deal with when it's someone she was in love with before.

Bluntly...do not be put off by her insisting that nothing is going on, and saying that you're just overreacting. This is CLASSIC...it's what they all say. Oh...and the "I'm not doing anything wrong" comment...my wife and OM said that to themselves in the very IM's that I caught...that since it was just IM'ing and talking on the phone, it wasn't like she was doing anything wrong!

Take action to verify for yourself what's going on. Install a keylogger...get a digital, voice activated recorder and put it in the car or room that she normally calls this guy from. THEN decide based on what you hear if it's gone too far or not.

PTR:

This is how it starts, believe me...

Every marriage has problems. They should be addressed and fixed, but nobody does that. Why is that? Why is it always "easier" 2 go underground with an innocent friendship like this? Dunno, but it always is. Always.

I "trusted" my W so much that I refused 2 accept that our problems might indicate something was going on behind my back for 11 years - making it worse in the process.

Heck, 3 months before d-day, my W even told me that she was meeting RM at his hotel room after a party "so they could sober up before the drive home". I knew they were colleagues and 'friends', but I didn't suspect anything was going on. I believed her SO MUCH that, even when I discovered the emails between them that talked about their planned rendezvous on d-day 3 months later, I believed that nothing ac2ally happened (she came home about 10pm that night, and the party was an our away). It was over a year later that she told me that "they were physical, but it wasn't rewarding".

Denial ain't just a river in Egypt, and it's often as big a problem with the BS as it is with the WS.

At the very least, you should seek professional advice on this.

-ol' 2long

PT

Hello...I am Mrs. Wondering's husband. I agree that your wife has begun her journey into a full blown physical affair. It's only an emotional affair now but don't let the "only" fool you. Women attach to men emotional. She is getting some or most of her emotional needs met by this fellow and the feelings of "romantic love" are likey attached. Be aware...Men attach physically which is one reason YOU don't see it as that bad yet (and your wife is taking advantage of that fact by manipulating you with the "just friends" BS). However, on the flip side because men attach physically it may be easier to break up the affair on OM's side once you expose to the other man's wife.
He won't be as prepared to lose everything for an unconsumated emotional affair and his wife will KABOSH the friendship.

I second the recommendation my wife gave about the digital recorder. It is how I busted my wife. They are available at Radio Shack, Wallmart and Target. Make certain it is DIGITAL and voice activated. In the pocket or with some rolled duct tape and stuck to floor under her driver's seat or passenger seat should get you the information you need to realize the truth. Don't feel guilty or ashamed at snooping. You are entitled to the truth as it relates to YOUR LIFE and don't think for a second your wife wouldn't do the same.

Another easier method. She is likely deleting all her sent and received emails not to mention she probably has a "secret" email account. Click on the start menu and search feature. Search the files and folders for all containing his name. You will likely be able to find the deleted emails in her temporary internet files as they usually forget to delete those.

I am sorry you are going through this but the faster you nip this in the bud the better your chances of saving your marriage. When you do bust her you can bet your gonna get anger (for snooping and busting up the affair) and she'll likely say "I love you but I am not in love with you". Don't fret....your marriage can survive anger and the temporary loss of feelings for you...but it can not survive and ever deeping affair. Bust up the affair and recovery can begin despite what she says at the time.

Exposure is the number one method to bust up affairs. You must do one immediately upon determining what is going on by snooping. Call the OM's wife is essential. You should make that call immediately proceeding discussing the matter with your wife so she can't try to manipulate you out of exposing. Like I said...you wife will be PO'ed but she'll be OK, eventually. Affairs thrive in secrecy. They are like an addiction and the when you turn on the lights and allow reality to shine in...they intially respond with anger...but eventually realize it for what it is.

I've rambled partner. We may seem alarmest but we know what is happening cause it happened to us...exactly the same. There is a thread on the "Just Found Out" board that discusses the 16 Steps to getting into an affair. Read it and you'll see your gut was right to feel "hurt" and to seek out advice. This place is great...it saved our marriage. Your marriage can and will likely turn out better and stronger than it ever was before.

Wish I was wrong.

Good luck,

Mr. Wondering

She has stated that I cannot tell her not to talk to him. Which I told her I would never do that. It is just the frequency that bothers me.

Also, I'm afraid to even say to her again that I am feeling really uneasy. She has said that I need to move on & get over it. It's my problem because she is not doing anything inappropriate.

So wich is it?

This friendship is more important than your marriage, but she is not doing anything inappropriate?

Anytime an outside friendship becomes more important than a husbnand or wife's feelings, then something inappropriate is going on. Every time, you can be sure.

You can't make her do anything here, you need to decide what YOU WILL DO. In other words, you can't just keep telling her "this isn't right" and have her wake up tomorrow and say "Yes dear, you were right, I 'll stop talking to him."

This is an addiction, it is chemical as well as emotional. What you can do is get the book "Surviving an affair," study what you need to do, then do it.

You need to understand her addiction, and help her out of it. Just talking to her won't do it - remember, it's an addiction.

AS far as making friends. If she made friends in HS, she can make friends now. - You need to see her statements for what they are - an attempt to get you to leave her alone so she can continue to feed her addiction.

Again:
Also, I'm afraid to even say to her again that I am feeling really uneasy. She has said that I need to move on & get over it. It's my problem because she is not doing anything inappropriate.

Any time a relationship with someone else comes before our spouse, we ARE doing somethig inappropriate.

Study, formulate a plan, and then run the plan WITHOUT letting her in on it. If you clue hin in on it, she will just try to figure out ways to get around what you are doing.

Ss

I also wanted to point out we've seen this story hundreds if not thousands of times here and never did the poster come back and say "you guys are wrong...my wife was legit...it was just a friendship".

My point, OWL, 2Long, myself and others on this board are NOT the exception. Your wife and your marriage is NOT somehow special or different than ours. Infidelity is a human characteristic/susceptibility and it IS happening to you. Please learn from our experiences. We are on your side and here to help. Your wife's going to blame you but it's not your fault. When is it ever right to have an affair? It's not.

Mr. Wondering

Does his wife know about the almost daily contact? First because your wife is defensive about this..I would negotiate the communication to be via email and not on the phone so you can read it. Any phone conversation must be when your present. And I would try a verify with the OM's wife that she is aware of this contact.

The ultimate WS(wayward spouse) smoke screen transference tactic...straight out of the handbook...


Did you do anything to help her with this? Join a club together...take up a hobby with her...What were you doing while she was in distress? I AM NOT IMPLYING IN ANY WAY THAT YOUR WIFE'S EA(emotional affair) IS YOUR FAULT...But in an earlier post you talked about how happy your marriage is...you are telling us outright that her emotional needs are not being met. Do you know what needs of hers are being met by this "friend"? Conversation and Admiration to name two...GUARANTEED!!! Again, you are her husband, those needs are intended to be met by you...do not stand idly by and let another man take your place...he is a poor substitute for you, but if you don't step up, he will do...


Stop asking her, she ain't gonna tell ya...collect some intel...you have a right to know about the decisions that your wife is making that directly affect your life...You owe it to your children to find out this information...if we are wrong, what have you lost? What if we are right and you do nothing?

PT, think about this logically...ok, so your wife needs friends, but what is this married man's excuse for talking to your wife almost daily? Would it be appropriate for you to look up an old girlfriend and talk to her everyday? You know the answer to that...

We will help you...keep reading and posting here, we will walk you thru this step by step...


Mrs. W

PT,

The advice you are getting is spot on. The W's are pouring out the best information you may ever recieve - they are absolutely trustworthy people. You can count on what they are telling you. Follow their lead and you'll have every chance to stop this before it's too late.

Your other option is to avoid the reality of this situation and live in denial. Denial works great for a while, that is until you find out she's getting nailed by this guy. That day is coming unless you take the appropriate steps starting today. Face the reality - we're all here to walk with you through this.

Praying for you bro.

This is my story as well my friend. my WW found her old HS friend on Classmates.com as well and carried on an emotional A for about a year.

I knew she was talking to him but never put two and two together until I found out that while I was deployed for a little over a month, she flew across country to meet up with him. She said she wanted to see if she had any real "feeling" for him and before she left, they ended up in bed together.

Stop it now while you still can. Ask her if she can stop all contact with him? If she can't you've proven your point and she needs to realize that.

The OM in my WW's life was the guy she stood up, to go out on our first date so there was a boyfriend/girlfriend relationship already there as well.

Please, for your family's sake, end it now.


FN

PT,

Ok, let's come at this another way. IF your W is not emotionally connected to her old BF, then why are your concerns being dismissed and her connection to him more important than your feelings? Ask your W this.

The fact is she is addicted now, and to go a few months without contacting him would "hurt" her. You know this, she does not.

It is sort of like a frog in water. You can put a frog in a pan of cold water, and then start to heat the water. By the time the water is ready to boil, the frog cannot get out. It never noticed what was happening until too late.

Your W may not feel she has any loving feelings for this man, but she IS addicted to contact with him.

You have a right to be concerned and she doesn't see or want to see it because this contact with exBF is providing something she needs.

It will be a tough sell, but it is important that she see these things. As you have heard many an affair has started as an innocent friendship.

Please think about this.

God Bless,

JL

They plump when you cook 'em. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Sorry - done with the threadjack PT. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />