Almost every week I go and re-read the Harley's concept of the Love Bank.

The idea that as we make deposits at some point if we pass a threashold the other person falls in love and the same way when the other person makes love deposits we fall in love when our own LB go beyound the threashold.

When we meet that "special somone" filling the LB is so easy and it usually happens every fast....and very little or no love busting occurs, hence the LB is filling up at an amazing speed.

Then as we get to know the person, maintaining a Full LB is hard, and a lot of us don't realize that it is falling.

For many, it falls so low, that the spouse no longer wants to be with the person, is either indiferent or even begins to hate the person.

It seems to me that in that case, something had to have gone majorly wrong in that M for one to begin to hate his/her partner. In any case, the spouse that begins to hate or be indiferent, sees very little positives in his partner and cannot wait to get out of the M.

It seems many times, M end badly, divorces turn into 'battles' and what use to be a loving home turns into a war zone.

How does it get to this point? And why do we alow that?


Then I think about my case. My H wanting to be friends with me and being perfectly content to hang out with me and chat and have some sort of friendship. This is a patern. He is friends with his ex'es. Wanted to remain friends with his first love, but she did not (she is the one who broke it off). So, I am just another one of his ex'es that he wants to be friends with.

So, I wonder about this relative to the LB. It seems to me that when it comes to a spouse wanting to remain friends (especially when children are not involved so there really is no reason to remain friends), the LB is not completely empty. It just went below the threashold. Using the concept of the LB, I finally was able to realize that as much as I did not want to believe it, my H is not in love with me. As my dad told me the other day...."a person in love is capable of anything"....so if H was in love, he would not be gone.


H did love me once, and the LB was filled above the threashold. Now it is below the threashold. I don't know how much below. I assume it is not near zero since then he would not really call me to go see a movie. How full it is is not an easy thing to gauge.

I do wonder whether he could ever be in love with me again? Could he ever get above the threashold again?

I realize that the only way to get there is if I deposit love unit, and do not LB.

However, when we first fall in love, there is nothing to stop us from getting there. There is no history. NOw, we have a history. NOw, he holds on to "we don't work" all the time. Is it possible to let go off that?


I just wonder if the fact that H was unhappy for 3 years out of 4 (so he says, I guess I was not very observant), is not a type of LOVE BUSTER that makes it imposible for the LB to ever get above the threashold......no matter how many deposits I make.


I chated with H for 1 hour yesterday. It was a nice conversation. Say that I made a deposit of 10 units....yet at the same time H leaves and his mind wonders to the last 3 years...."we don't work" is reinforced through his mind.....-10 units, I am still where I was the day before.


How do we know that the negative thoughts that one spouse has about the relationship are not canceling out any love deposits we make?

Is it posible even to make love deposits and clime the ladder while the other person wants to be friends, but has completely convince him/her-self that it is just not going to work?

DAisy <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

And another thing that has been on my mind is, why do I still have feeling of love (or am in love) with my H?

Or, in general, why is the BS in love with the WS?

What deposits is the WS making? I don't think they are making any. In most cases the WS is cheating, lying, angry, blaming the BS, etc. Are these not Love Busters? I know that Plan B is then to protect the love, I guess I wonder why that love exists to begin with? Should not all the lying and cheating etc, be enough to depleat the LB?

WHy is it that before H left, I was very easily irritated at him and he was LBing and I can tell now that it was eating away at my love, but now my LB is quite full.

Or is the feeling that I (and BS in general) have really is not love at all?

Is it just this need to have something I cannot have, and if I had it I may realize that I don't love him after all, since he did betray me in many ways?


Daisy

i know in my case daisy that i became so depressed that i was not able to care for myself let alone show care for my H by meeting his needs and making love bank deposits.

he on the other hand took care of me and made lots of deposits.

my love bank for him is overflowing

his lovebank for me went below the threshold, kept getting lower and lower, and then i guess it started filling up with IOU's when there was nothing left

i do believe that when our H are no longer involoved in the affair and have no contact....our efforts will beging to fill that love bank again and the good thoughts and feelings about us will push away those bad thoughts from our "history together"

while thinga re great with OW ....our H lovebank is already full and they aren't interested in letting us make any deposits

as things with them start to fall apart....they remember the deposits we treid to make....they start to wish for our deposits....

....maybe they even start to miss us

i think that's when the fog starts to lift!

WDaisy,

A long time ago, I was puzzled with the same question. (I was the BS, and could not figure out why I loved my WW so.)

This is the best answer I could come up with. Was a pretty good thread in it's day.

Servant's Heart

ncw <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />....

read your post...thanks.....it makes sense......

Let me run this by you....

When we first fall in love, we are open to fall in love. Whether we do or not with a given person depends on whether they make love deposits.

I go out with someone, I am enjoying myself, the sparks are there, and then I find out some characteristic that I don't like, and poof I close the door.

If we are not open to falling in love, then no matter how much LD someone makes, we will not fall in love.


Then once we are in love, the question of maitatining LOVE comes in.


Based on what you say, my H chooses to not love me, and basically is not open to LOVE me any longer. I think that his negative feelings towards the relationship are keeping him from being open to being in LOVE with me again.

This makes me think that him beginning to be open to loving me, is probably very unlikely to happen.

As long as he has negative thoughts, as much as I try to fill his LB adn don't LB, his not being open to love (or choosing not to love) will keep him from ever having LOVE for me.

Filling someone's LB till they have LOVE again, seemed hard, but now with the additional constraint of them being open to LOVE, makes this task seem imposible to me. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />


Ahhhhhhhhhhhh.....I was hoping for some better news <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />.


Is there any?

Daisy <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

WD,

I see your post.

Need a minute. Been an age since I did anything other than goof. Let me get in the right frame of mind. I won't leave you hanging.

NCW

You know, I just don't see my H in a fog. At first when he left he was so angry, but now, he just seems like his old self. So, I don't get the feeling that some fog is stopping him from seeing the good. (I think your H is in the fog).

I mean, I have been in love before, and when I no longer felt I was in love, I just could not ever get it back. I admit that my ex-BF did plead with me and tried to get me to feel something. I tried to be nice, but then I realized I just could not take it and I did not want to talk to him any more. He does have a tendency to appear in my life every couple of years, and I have to shut the door again. I am just not open to ever loving the guy.

So, I wonder if H is feeling the same way. The difference is that my ex-BF and I dated a short time, we never got married, so what H felt for me was definately more than what I felt for my BF.

The second difference is that I could not even be friends with the guy. He just made me really uncomfortable. But H wants to stay friends. I realize that as I was needed (back in the summer) he was more relactant and just kept saying he wanted space and I guess wanted me to back off, and we did not have such a great time. Now, that I don't beg or plead and basically appear FINE with the whole thing, he does appear to be happier in my company.

I guess I just wonder if all this is enough for him to ever look at me again and wonder if things could be different?

Daisy

WD,

Hi. It has been a while since I posted serious. And I must admit I haven't been really following your situation. So if I repeat what you have been told, I am sorry.

My M failed. Tried Plan A as best I could. Tried Plan B as best I could.

And I told you wrong. It didn't fail. I quit. We all have our breaking points, and I reached mine. Plain and simple.

So here is what lies ahead for you. Here are the possible scenarios bared down to simple one-liners.

1) You keep trying. It works. You and H live happily ever after.
2) You keep trying. It fails. And you waste a large number of years tilting at windmills with him.
3) You quit. He wises up and tries to win you back.
4) You quit. He quits. You live happily ever after with someone else. Probably. Maybe.

That sounds pretty bleak. Really bleak.

But here are some key points.....

In ALL of those options, the only outcome YOU can affect is how YOU act.

In ALL of those options, the only feelings YOU can affect are YOURS.

You know, we can all fall out of love. And it feels like an end. And you sometimes wonder "How did I ever love that person?" when you fall out of love.

And we get it in our head that there is some kind of love check valve.

But what about the people who pursue someone for years that doesn't return the love and eventually they fall in love? It isn't immediate for everyone.

But what about the mothers who have finished raising the kids and they say "I REALLY didn't like the terrible twos" (or the teenage years, or whatever).

Point is... it is POSSIBLE. We kind of get conditioned to the fact that once it is gone, it is gone. When the reality is it never goes, it just changes.

Think back about a prior bad relationship. There ARE fond memories in there. Ya know? It is like a tide. Naturally, it will rise and ebb.

The work comes in keeping it up. So take heart. It IS possible he will fall back in love with you.

So what is next? WILL he?

I am less a fan of the love bank theory than most. I don't support the fact that people can MAKE me angry. Or MAKE me feel anything. The love bank sort of says that.

Meet the emotional needs, make deposits, voila, love.

Granted you can affect the outcome. Hard to love someone who treats you like crap. Or is it? How would YOU say YOU are being treated right now? That (to me) is where the love bank theory breaks down.

But the servant's heart.... that holds water in every situation I have encountered.

Here is how you should play it. Best chance of success IMVHO.

Plan A him. Just like the MB material says. What you are doing is removing reasons for him to NOT love you. Really, you are removing excuses. But making him love you? Sorry. You cannot do that. He will make the choice to "serve" or "give" or "exert" emotions and your response to that will aid or retard his love. But he will still choose it.

And what about you and your needs? Well. What about them? Do you LOVE him? If you REALLY love him in the best sense of the word, your needs don't matter. Only his. THAT is the key to the servant's heart.

Problem is you are only human. Finite. You are risking your life right now. I mean it. You are risking your physical life. You are risking your emotional life. Plan A is ALL risk. There is no guarantee. And you have questions.

Simplify the problem and answer them yourself. If you were going to risk your life, say climbing a mountain, what would you do?

The first choice is - don't climb it. An option for many. Not everyone likes mountain climbing. Not everyone would love your husband. NOT an option for you. You have a desire to climb the mountain.

What next?

Prepare. You train. You research. You gather supplies and learn how to use them. Everyone who climbs the mountains does this stuff. Still, some die while climbing. Why? They prepared.

I think it is this... they didn't know when to turn back. THAT is the hardest part in all of this. The VERY hardest part. And the "point" is different for all of us.

The sad fact is, we cannot answer your questions. We don't really know you, or your husband. We can only relate what we have experienced and hope that it helps.

So I am not going to try and answer the questions you have any more than I have.

And that answer is ... it is possible that he will fall back in love with you.

The only thing I can do with my 20/20 hindsight that is of REAL value is to tell you that what you need to do is CLEARLY determine your own point of no return. If you don't do that when things are relatively calm, it won't serve you when your emotions get cranked up.

I did fair at it in my situation. Actually, I did pretty good. I had a pretty firm idea of when enough was enough. And what it would take for her to come back. And EVEN STILL I did some regrettable things. Gave away some of my integrity. I mean, gave it away.

I hope it works out for you. I do. But I would rather forwarn you about the possibility of it not. For that will serve you better.

When the dust settles, you have to like yourself. And BELIEVE ME, those demons WILL catch up with your husband. The hardest part of RECOVERING the marriage is when THAT day comes. Ask the successful couples.

On to him "being your friend." On the board, we call that cake-eating. Fence-sitting. Of COURSE he wants that. You are like a buffet. He gets to come and get those emotional needs met that he wants. The sucky part of Plan A. Is it fair? No. Don't ask me to make it fair. I can't. I can only help you deal.

But it is going to wear you down. It is simply a battle of wills. Either he is going to realize his error and wise up, or you are NOT going to be able to sustain the Plan A effort. That is where you need to KNOW that point of no return.

Then you plan B. And I am sure you know this. YES it takes him to make the marriage work. But DO NOT FORGET it takes YOU to.

Remember - your marriage BROKE. So if and when he comes back, it is unlikely he will come back a prince. He will most likely come back the same old guy, just a little wiser about fidelity. YOU need strength there too. So you cannot burn it all on your Plan A.

Yes, you will get a little boost because he comes back. But there will be many a day after his return where you will ask "Why in the world did I WANT him back??" You will need some reserve strength for those days. (Remember, the mountain climber has to get back DOWN. Need food, water, etc. for that journey, too.).

I am ex-military. We use to do something called "war-gaming." You take a scenario and play out the possible outcomes to prepare. That way, when the bullets are flying, you can rely more on practice and training. It saves your bacon.

You need to do the same things. Draw that boundary in your mind. Then test it in your mind. "What if " it.

Wondering what HE is going to do is natural. Don't beat yourself up for wondering. But eschew it, then PUT IT ASIDE. Because only what he DOES do effects you.

Hope that helped. I tend to ramble.

NCWalker

ncwalker....

Thank you for everything you wrote. I kept re-reading your post all weekend but I just did not know what to say. But a THANK YOU is in order!


I also do not agree with the LB theory. I keep re-reading it but it leaves me unsatisfied.

Something is missing. I think your theory is much more believable.

I do think some parts of the LB theory do make sense, but it is incomplete at best.


Unlike most WS here, I am actually not treaty badly. I don't believe H left because he had an A. He was unhappy.

I think he is involved in something now, now that we are seperated for 9 months. There are planty of people that would argue that it is not an A if it starts after you seperate and you basically do not work on the R. He has broken his commitment to me, said so right up front, so him being involved in a sexual relationship right now, is not the same as getting involved in one while still living with me or while still working on it with me.

So, I am actually not treated badly by him in the sense that he does not yell at me, or rant at me, or calls me names.

He did take advantage of me for several months and I wish he had not, or at least I wish I had not let him. When I did stand up to myself more, he did not get angry with me, he distanced himself from me. He finally stoped using me for sex, he finally stoped asking me for money (in very underhanded ways), he stopped his criticism of me.

Is he cake eating? Well, I guess if we define cake eating as anytime a spouse that leaves the M still wants to keep in contact with the BS or still wants to keep up a friendship and hang out as cake eating, then I guess he is.

But is that really the definition?

Yes, he is getting some needs met by me, but so is he getting needs met by his male friends when he has a drink with them. There is no question of cake eating. I guess he figures if it bothers me to stay friends with him, I should do something about it. It does not bother him, so he is not doing anything about it.

Sometimes, I feel that he really is a selfish person, because he should know that I want a R with him not a F and so should really cut all ties with me. That is the way most people react. They don't want to stay friends with a person that has feelings for them that they themselves don't have and cannot meet. My H figures I should just deal with it.

Is that cake eating?


More on the LB. I think it is not a satisfying idea because he left me, he hurt me, he has not been trying to meet any of my needs, yet I still love him. WHy is that? Should not my LB be getting empty if he is not meeting most of my needs and actively rejects me!?

So, I am with you. Something else altogether is going on when it comes to love.


On plan A. Well, I got issues with Plan A. Like you say, it is risky and I think I am getting closer and closer to realizing that it is getting too risky for me. I guess I am getting close to the point where I will turn around and walk down the mountain. At this point, I may be just taking a break trying to decide wether to continue or not, but will I keep going for much longer, I think the answer is increasingly becoming no.


The friendship thing is really a slow torture. I thought it would be nice if we could remain friends, but it does not seem very likely. I think I could benefit from "out of sight, out of mind".

Many days I conteplate wrting him a sort of Plan B letter, cutting all contact. BUt it is not a true Plan B, because I am not thinking of doing to preserve some love for him, but to just take control of my life and moving on, leaving him in the past where he belongs.

Daisy

Daisy,

Glad that I could help.

The MOST important piece of advice I continually give is refine those boundaries when you are not emotionally charged.

If you do that, then when you ARE emotionally charged (and we all get that way) they serve to protect your rather than you trip over them.

NCWalker

You have no idea how much I need to take this advice. I let him walk over me for so long.....and then when I did work on my boundaries, he reacted by distancing himself from me more. Oh, well. I don't really feel bad about not letting him take advantage of me any longer.

Daisy