Orchid: God hates a divorce and he doesn't believe in guilt trips. So now what r u going t/d? Why r u being phony? Do you think your children will appreciate a parent who is using them as an excuse to act as you have been?


Orchid: What did you promise t/d that you have not done?


Orchid: All this A was for fun? Hm.... you have a strange way of having fun. What other hurtful things do you do for fun? That's all it takes is for a stranger to pay attention to you? What would you think if a stranger gave attention to your children..... don't you teach your children to stay away from strangers or strange people?


Orchid: How do you plan to keep yourself from making this kind of foolish mistake again?


Orchid: Really? Your actions show the A is still raging in you. R U going to wait until the OM contacts you 'out of the blue'?


Orchid: As for his financee, you hate her soo much that you would allow her to continue with such an unfaithful person??!? Hm......

Your OWN posts here show you don't any care or concern for any of your family members...... not even yourself. What do you think of how you are current projecting yourself?

L.

Doesn't look like hate, but just rank indifference to the fact that another person's life is about to get screwed up tremendously and she couldn't be bothered to do anything about it. I don't know which is worse.

For the record, my FWW still wants to contact the OMGF and tell her what her BF is REALLY like before she marries him. OMGF already knows that her BF cheated on her, but both of us suspect that she doesn't know the whole story. I've told my FWW that I prefer that there's no more contact - if OM GF wants to find out the real truth, she knows who to contact. The ball's in her court now.

This sounds like a completely fogged out statement to me. For someone who has supposedly not had contact in months, this justification seems awfully inappropriate.



TD cannot "lay" any guilt on you. If he tries to make you feel guilty, that's one thing. It's a completely different thing for you to accept that guilt. Again, this justification seems inappropriate for your timeline.


In the time that I have been on these boards, I don't think I have ever seen anyone who is not currently in contact with OP or actively in the A say anything like this. "Fun" was NEVER a word I would have used to describe my A.....


You don't know that he won't contact you. Mine contacted me a year after I sent the NC letter...then 6 months after that...then 3 months after that. You have no idea what he will or won't do.



Again, another justification.

Crystal....I'm sorry, but my instincts tell me you are not in NC. The threads you have started have almost all focussed on getting people to "be on your side." Pure justification.

Sorry. I'm just not buying it.

Crystal,

This is not a loaded question.

Recovery has got to be a "you're either all in, or all out" kind of thing.

For you...are you all in or all out?

I hate to see you spinning your wheels, and I fear that you will until you make a decision.

WOW. I was just catching up from the drama last night. Crystal I am glad you are safe. I'm glad you came home (I think)

There is so much anger between you both. I would imagine the air is so tense in your house its difficult for anyone to take a breath....even your kids.

I think both of you should take a step back. STOP PLAYING THE BLAME GAME>>>>nobody wins. Focus on yourselves. What kind of marriage do you want? Face it, this is a mess. You have several options.

1) You face it...be honest with yourselves and eachother and work on it and improve it...show your daughters what true devotion is, how to forgive and be forgiven, how to love and have faith.

2) You ignore it...keep going as you have with violent fights...you show your daughters this is how marriage should be...then they grow up and find/create a similar circumstance. Is this the kind of marriage you would want your DDs to have?

3) Walk away and never deal with it...However far you run, you can't run away from yourself, you can carry this bitter fury inside you and take it to another R....you can teach your DDs that you don't have to face your consequences, you can blame everyone else for your mistakes...and it ok to live a bitter miserable life.

4) You can deal with this. It doesn't mean that the M should be and will be salvaged. You accept responsibilty for your own choices, you forgive yourself (and hopefully eachother), you deal with and release your anger. If you find the M cannot be saved at least you have given it your best effort, you build a respectful parenting relationship, you show DDs that problems can be worked through, you move on to your next R with an open heart and tools to build a better R.


When you talk to Jennifer its not to prove who is "right" its to formulate a plan to get to the next step. Allow each to have your say without "one uping..."

Again: PLEASE STOP POSTING ON EACH OTHER'S THREADS

THAT'S NOT WHAT THIS SITE IS FOR

NO ONE CAN HELP YOU WHEN YOU ARE IN HERE SCREAMING AT EACH OTHER

STAY OFF OF EACH OTHER'S THREADS

thank you
mulan

To follow up on what Mulan wrote:
In addition to that,

Stop confronting each other in Real Life too.
Its Helping NO ONE!
[But hurting many].

Right now you need to find some system / stratagy/ plan that will Permit yourselves to Disengage.

Neither of you has a Chance to figure out, help or solve much IF this Destructive Interaction continues.

However,
it is YOUR lives.

IF this is what you Both Choose, then there's little posters on board can do to stop or help you.
[And please no more finger pointing {he did, she said} ........There's more then enough Blame to go around].

Hmmm...a NC letter will actually KEEP OM from contacting me??? If you think the letters actually do that, you're nuts. You can write anything you want, but the person receiving it doesn't have to respect your wishes. It all goes back to the fact that we don't have control over anyone but ourselves.

No, an NC letter lets the other person know that you want them to butt out of your life forever and that you are working on your marriage.

If the peson receiving it doesn't respect your wishes, you just ignore them totally.



BTW, is this how you normally speak to people.

Mulan,

I didn't post on his thread. We made an agreement NOT to post on each other's threads, but TD violated it. He started his own threads, and I started mine. He didn't like what I said on mine, so he had to chime in. I didn't like what he said on his, but I didn't chime in there.

When TD doesn't get what he wants, he confronts me in a round about way on this board. When that doesn't work, he corners me in my house and holds me against my will (quite literally).

Crystal

Crystal,
I feel for you and I hear your pain.
I am not here to judge you and TD, just listen and try to help whenever possible. Even seek help with posts alot too.
You are hurting, depressed, scared, etc. All these emotions are exactly that, you are FEELING.
When you have a relationship with anyone, male or female, you give and take in that relationship. Sometimes you give more and sometimes you take more, but it all evens out at some point or the relationship ends.
I see 2 people here that are hurt and angry. Maybe even if the love is gone, a little respect is due for both of you.
You are both feeling human beings, stop and think about that before saying or doing anything to each other. You need to be friends first before going to another level in the relationship.
I hope with all my heart that you 2 feeling and emotionally charged people can find the right path that is waiting for you. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />
JE

My take on the no contact letter is this- it's not about what the OM does or doesn't do with it. It's not really about whether or not you want to do it.

It is a sign to a BS that you are willing to do WHATEVER it takes to rebuild the marriage.

Without that sign, and further more, the extreme anger against it, TD really has nothing from you to work with. Nothing showing him your commitment to change. Not even a crumb. With your anger and disrespect and calling the letter stupid, you are showing you are more willing to protect OM and his girlfriend than making TD feel safe.

If anyone ever believed that "swinging" was good for a marriage, they need to read Crystal and TD's posts. If you lay down with dogs, you get up with fleas. My, they have a mighty mess of fleas...

I told Crystal this last week and I say the same thing to TD...grow up. You've got three children there who are more than likely more mature than the two of you. I feel for them and this nightmare they're witnessing is causing more damage than can be imagined. I wouldn't be surprised if Child Protective Services is not called on them because you know these children are going to school and telling how horrible it is at home.

Again I say....grow up and get over yourselves.

Luckily, TD and I tend to argue at night after they're asleep. I'm sure they hear some noise every now and then, and the arguments are getting to be more frequent...but they've NEVER seen us angry at each other. They know that things aren't right between us, but we do our best to let them know how much we love them. That's the best I can do right now. I personally think that moving out would be best for everyone involved, but TD disagrees. I wish that TD could learn not to "push" me to get me to say what he wants to hear, especially when it's not the way I feel.

He's said that I haven't done anything to work on this M. I have done quite a bit. I've agreed to do MC with Jennifer Harley. I'm not just giving lip service to it, I'm really working on it. And I was READY to walk out the door. Jennifer talked me out of it. I agreed to give the MC a month to see if there would be any noticable progress. And there has been. And I did start treating TD with more respect and care...not treating him the way I FELT toward him, but actually being nice to him.

It's frustrating that he gets to decide whether or not I'm putting enough effort into the M. I feel as though if TD doesn't get the answer that he wants, then he can say that I'm not putting in the effort. Anyway, arguing here with all of your or with him really isn't helping matters any. It's only fueling the tension in our household to the point of boiling over.

Crystal

no one is going to believe this lie

Hm...

I've not read either of you 2's posts before now. 2ple of things stand out, though.

*It's been very little time since d-day. I'm not at all surprised your not interested in SF yet. As Orchid said, you've still got the A virus ruling your thinking and behavior. Not a pretty thought? No, I suppose not. But it's true. And recognizing that there are reasons that you feel the way you do and why you are depressed (you compromised your own integrity and had an affair!) may be uncomfortable at first, but in the end will liberate you.

*I think everybody reacts differently 2 discovery of their WS' A, or discovery by their BS of their A. After discovering my W's A 4 years ago, we must have had SF 4 or 5 times a week for a 2ple weeks, then maybe once a week for several months, then once a month or 2 for a year or so, and even going months on end without. Lately, it's been more like once a month again, and it's getting better. I would have thought I couldn't survive without it, but now I would rather not have it if it's not mu2al desire. Thankfully, lately it has been. ...this all gets back 2 my first point - this is still early in the process. You both need 2 back off your expectations of the other a bit. No DJs or LBs. Talk about your concerns with Jennifer, and listen 2 her suggestions. Stop hacking at each other over this for a while.

*What would it take for you 2 WANT NC? For YOUR benefit? Because it isn't as important that you haven't contacted the OM, or you think he's unlikely 2 contact you. Most affairees who don't voluntarily cut off contact the instant the A is discovered will keep it up in some fashion. What do you plan 2 do if the OM ever does try 2 contact you? You shouldn't reply, first and foremost. If it's by phone, you shouldn't answer it. You SHOULD inform TD of the attempt. You wouldn't believe what a trust-builder that simple ges2re can be. I don't necessarily think that an NC letter is required, but the SPIRIT of the NC letter IS required for recovery 2 succeed.

*Sorry, the NC letter, as you wrote it above, IS inappropriate:

"Dear D,

I don't want to talk to you, see you, or hear from you anymore."

Good

"I am trying to work on my marriage to the best of my ability."

Make this stronger, like "I am working on rebuilding my M."

"While I don't see you as a threat to my marriage because I'm not in love with you and only think of you as a friend, I see that it's inappropriate for a married woman to have a friendship with a man. I'm not going to play with fire."

This is all inaporpriate. The OM *IS* a threat 2 your M because TD thinks he is. He can never be your friend. The sooner you quash this nonsense in your own head the better off you'll be. A "friend" would refuse 2 cheat with you. I don't think it's necessarily impossible for M'd women 2 be friends with men other than their H's, but there must be healthy boundaries in place before such a friendship is possible - and you've got a LOT 2 work through before you could safely have such a friend again. And NEVER, EVER a man you've had an A with - EA or PA. NEVER.

-ol' 2long

crystal-

Holy crap you're confrontational. I thought I was confrontational......but you win.

You're not just mad at TD, you're mad at everything.

And you're seriously bumped in the head if you think those children have never seen you two angry, give me a flippin' break.

You're destroying your family with your actions. By having an affair, by not writing and sending the NC letter, by not seeming even a little sorry that you had the dang *A* to begin with.

You're going to be sorry, maybe not today....maybe not tommorrow, but soon and for the REST of your life.

God Bless,

-Caren

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

You know what Crystal? That was disrespectful in itself IMHO. I have been battling depression for years and have been on AD's for two years. My youngest son is physically and mentally disabled and takes full time work. I am the major breadwinner in my family AND I have spent years not being able to stay in bed even IF I was feverish and puking. However those are the only times I would even try!!! So don't spit your justifications back at me. No one in my opinion should lol around in bed until 2pm when their kids are waiting to see them. BTW, my H works 6 days a week so who do you think after working all week cleans the house, does the shopping and cares for the kids??????? Get over yourself already. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

What is this, a battle of who has the harder life? This is a couple in crisis, for heaven's sake! Look, I get up at 5am every morning, have for years. Couldn't stay in bed until 2pm if I tried. So what?

There is one poster who has just left MB. In his parting shot, he mentioned posters who take their own experiences and let it color the advice they give other posters, rendering the advice useless.

The post I quoted is is a perfect example. Get over yourself indeed. It's not about you.

If either crystal or TD need some help, they should check out Forever Hers's thread. I am not a Christian, but a good way to get off the treadmill of having everything be about you (TD and crystal both exhibit this unhealthy characterisitic) is to turn your life over to a higher power.