I don't claim to be a phychologist but I have watched a couple of shows about Scott Peterson and learned a bit about Sociopathy specifically the ADP part of it. Here's the kicker, my 42yo WH has been caught in an EA with a 18yo. The freaky thing is that no one liked her even before they found out about the relationship, when asked why, people couldn't really put their finger on it. They claimed that she is just irritating or disingenuous, constantly saying "I'm sorry" when dealing with people who are having problems.
Yes, my WH brought her to my house on many occasions, claiming that she was like a daughter, saying that he was mentoring her, etc etc etc. I didn't really care for her reaction to my 4yo son. For instance, he would be bouncing on his mini trampoline and she would say "does it ever stop?". She watched him with the facination of a clinical observer. After the EA was proven through email (don't you love email? You can bust people so easy in this day and age) I sent the girl an email that demanded she stop seeing my WH and somewhere in there I said something about how she treated my son. Immediately after the email was a remarkable change: she started to pay attention to my son, saying that he is brilliant (parroting my WH) but still possessing a clinical detatchment. Yes, she was allowed to come over to our house so she could "explain the relationship". She actually managed to make me believe that she never meant to hurt me, she admired me and didn't want our marriage to end because of her. At this point due to many exposures to her over the next three days, I began to actually like her and want to explore polyfildelity. I mean, my WH was really happy at the prospect of having us both at once (duh). Fortunately, my insanity waned but my WH is not willing to end the EA and neither is she.
Here is my conundrum: my WH is a great daddy, and I want my son to have a positive and frequent relationship with him if we end up divorcing. Not with a sociopath in the picture though.
I'm also really pissed that she would be playing my WH for fun because she doesn't suffer from a conscience and he's being led around by his ego or "little brain" as it were.
My WH won't begin to believe me that she is a sociopath, so how do I find out for sure and make him realize that he's being played? I have demanded an end to the relationship after my short lapse of sanity.
Since sociopaths have a short attention span, I wonder if I wait, whether it will end on her side anyway?
Any other suggestion would be greatly appreciated.
PS there is more evidence of her sociopathy but that would make this excrutiatingly long rather than just tedious

.... and this sexual lust you felt for an 18-year-old weird girl helps your son grow up healthy and happy because .... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> .... follow this thought through to the very end ....

MY concern is not how to properly diagnose/categorize this OW ... MY concern is YOU and how stable and connected to reality YOU are !!!!!!!

she is not a sociopath.

not close at all.

and your"armchair psychology" is about as accurate as tom cruise saying "I know psychiatry".

get your head on straight.

it's rather twisted at the moment.

kids are NOT SCIENCE PROJECTS FOR THE JUNIOR HIGH SCIENCE FAIR.

and how you could allow this to continue in your home is beyond me.

and how your H is turning this around rather than gaining responsibility and saying "I had an affair. it was MY fault...she was very immature. It was terribly wrong to do this AND EXPOSE MY CHILD TO MY DESTRUCTIVE BEHAVIOR AND WAS IMMORAL"...

and then there's YOU>..

ALSO BUYING INTO THE LIES FURTHER AND CHOOSING TO ALLOW YOUR CHILD TO SEE THIS IMMORALITY.

this is NOT marriage building.

it's stupidity and immorality.

I almost think it's a troll post.

nevermind

I think that maybe you were a bit panicked when you found out about the EA. It would be understandable to search for ways to make an equitable solution, ways that would restabalize the family dynamic immediately, ways to avoid divorce. Maybe entertaining the idea of 'sharing' your husband was brought about by that sense of panic.

I have to wonder if your self-esteem is where it should be. (????) Because if it isn't, it will be very difficult for you to assert yourself and demand the respect that you DESERVE. If there's a doubt in your mind regarding your own self-worth, please consider getting into some IC (Individual Counseling). It would be highly beneficial to you in getting the emotional support you're going to need.

I think it's fair to say that you are too caught up in the OW. For all intents and purposes....the OW is not the problem. While it's invaluable to have a working knowledge of what makes the OW tick, it's not actionable in the way that your husband's problems are. There's nothing much that you can do about the OW that will solve your marital problems. It's best to put the OW firmly out of your life and out of your marriage.

There is ALOT of information that will help you here at MB. I would recommend a thorough study of the Basic Concepts section and the How to Survive Infidelity section, with special attention to Plan A & Plan B, here: http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi8113_ab.html

You might buy a copy of Surviving an Affair, or borrow one at the library for more indepth reading.

You said that your husband is 42, so I think it's worthwhile to make a study of the 'Male Midlife Crisis'. Personally, I find it repugnant that a man in midlife should attempt to involve himself with a girl who is young enough to be his daughter. But...a midlife guy is not thinking straight. His body is making a transition from his old 'chemical balance' to a new one, his neurotransmitters are out of whack, and he's desperately seeking for that 'dopamine' rush.

A visit to his medical doctor featuring a VERY frank discussion of his symptoms is worthy of consideration. There are treatment options available that will help him with the depression often associated with the midlife transition. Treatment can help clarify his thought process.

As I said earlier, IC could be invaluable for YOU, but MC (marriage counseling) is going to be beneficial as well. Make sure that you select a marriage counselor who is pro-marriage, and is working with you from that standpoint.

Whatever problems that are already present in the marital relationship need to be addressed. Are you and your husband each having your ENs (emotional needs) met within the marital relationship? There's a questionaire here at MB you can take to help you determine that.

Have you and your husband discussed ending contact with the OW? What is his postition? Does she work with him? You'll find information here at MB on the importance of ending contact and how to get that accomplished in 'The No Contact' Letter. (This will affect your next decisions so it's imperative that you give it some consideration.)

As you can see, you've got ALOT to do. These concerns about OW's psychology are distracting you from the REAL WORK. Let them go. You've got bigger fish to fry. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

ladyjane ... that was a very nice post .... thank goodness you could stay on point

good for you!

I don't know if the 18 year old OW is a sociopath, as I am not a psychiatrist....but it's really a moot point.

This girl is 18 years old, and apparently reveling in all this attention.

18 year olds don't have the capacity to see the ramifications of their actions....or rather, they just don't care. They are still VERY immature, so she probably just doesn't give a flying crap how this is going to impact your family.

I think that you should definitely seek IC, especially since you entertained the thought of a 3-way. That does seem to point to Self esteem issues with you.

I don't want to beat you up for posting what actually happened...it's really the only way to get help.

I think you should follow the MB plans on here, I think that if you applied pressure to this *A* via the MB plans it's going to fall apart.

An 18 year old is not going to be amused or want to go through all of the crap that *A* exposure and pressure would throw at it.....it will cease being fun, and she will cease having an interest in your husband.

Think about it.

God Bless,

-Caren

Thanks Pep. *blush*

Having survived the Midlife Crisis / Emotional Affair...I have to say, it does a real number on your head.

The MLC guy doesn't realize that he's altered, so he's going to make every attempt to turn the situation back on his spouse. He's making excuses for himself, like all WS's do. But he makes it sound soooo reasonable that you wonder if YOU aren't the one who's gone whacko.

And when the object of his affections is younger than you....it makes you wonder if you have a snowball's chance. You can easily end up entertaining all sorts of crazy thoughts until you get your own self-esteem firmly in hand.

Thank you SO much ladyjane. You are right, I have been wasting alot of time on the OW and not dealing with my 50%. I have also been panicking and being manipulated by them both. I was losing my self-respect even contemplating the polyamory, how bloody desparate. I will heed your advice about studying, and I have been spending as much time as I can doing that.
There is one problem I am having that doesn't seem to be addressed on the website, but I may be missing it so far. My WH says that if pressure is placed on him and her, that it will just push them together. He is also denying that he is having an affair, saying that this is "different". They have gotten to first base and discussed sex. He doesn't understand why I'm threatened by the relationship, I have told him why.
Bless you ladyjane for not being judgemental, I wish that were true of the other respondants. It is adding salt to the wounds to be attacking a person like that.

***There is one problem I am having that doesn't seem to be addressed on the website, but I may be missing it so far.***

If you keep reading, you will see it. Your WS is no different from any other.

***My WH says that if pressure is placed on him and her, that it will just push them together.***

Translation: I don't want you to expose what I am doing and ruin my fun, so I will threaten and bully you into silence.

***He is also denying that he is having an affair, saying that this is "different".***

Translation: If I don't call it an affair, I can pretend I'm not having one even though I am.

***They have gotten to first base and discussed sex.***

Translation: They've had sex but they don't want you to interfere with it.

***He doesn't understand why I'm threatened by the relationship***

Translation: I'm really hoping I can somehow push you into going along with this so I can have both of you. If I make you sound like you're a weakling for being "threatened", maybe you'll have to go along with it out of pride.

You have a very serious situation here and it is no different from what is posted here every day. Your husband is screwing an 18-year-old and wants you to be okay with that. That's it.

I would suggest reading on this site about Plan A and Plan B, doing a short Plan A if you can stand it, and preparing for Plan B.

And whatever you do, do NOT have unprotected sex with this man.
Mulan

There are situations in my opinion that require less focus on rebuilding...and total focus on protection of the children...

42 year old men...with eighteen year olds in my opinion are dangerous...

the fact they can and would engage in a relationship on such an unfathomanable unequal playing field speaks volumes of their ability to destroy people...

the havoc he stands to bring in to this young womans life...who DOES NOT HAVE equal resources in the financial or life experience realm...makes him nothing short of a predator....

I would block ALL contact with her and your child...

have you exposed your husbands action to her parents...

if some 42 year old male came sniffing around our daughter...mr ark would love nothing better than to entertain him at a family bar-b-q...
while he cleaned his guns...
while stoking the coals to get them nice and hot...
and don't doubt that cousin Guido and Dom would be present at that bar-b-que as well...
and mr 42 year old man coming near my daughter...may be asked to go for a little ride...

me I'll be inside the kitchen having a nice long chat with my daughter....

this is NOT judgement...THIS IS THE REALITY OF YOUR HUSBANDS ACTIONS WHICH ARE PREDATORY AND DANGEROUS TO AN EIGHTEEN YEAR OLD GIRL........

And you must not pretend that they are not dangerous to her formaitive years....

And you must NOT go belly up over his silly little threats of you saying anything negative will be the root cause of his actions...

1. expose to her parents
2. expose to your family and his
3. block all contact with her and your child...
4. you need grown men in his life to also put pressure on him to stop his dangerous behavior....
5. you need his own mother to box his ears for such a thing

you are clear that going to first base with a child is an affair...
right??

I'm not judging you I'm telling you to stand proud and strong and do the right thing.....

If my husband put my child in the middle of this type of situation...the courts would have to come and find me and the children...but first you'd see our pictures on the back of milk cartons....

iffbiff I am pleading with you to see HIS ACTIONS as dangerous as they are...and move thusly to protect you...your child your family and even believe it or not the eighteen year old child...

ARK

exactly.

I'm glad you came back, Iffbiff. I think maybe you got off to an awkward start here at MB. There seems to have been a bit of a misunderstanding at work.

I want you to know that I've been reading here for more than a year, (although I rarely post), and you're in GOOD hands despite the miscommunication at the beginning of your thread. I hope you'll put all that behind you.

There's NOTHING that can guarantee your marriage will survive the current conflict....but I honestly believe that you'll have a better shot at it by adopting the MB approach than what you might have otherwise had.

It begins with learning the program. You know, it's weird....but I didn't find this site until AFTER the crisis in my marriage was already passed. I was 'flying by the seat of my pants', but the things that I had figured out on my own were pretty much already laid out here. (I sure would have sweated less if I'd found this place sooner....I can tell you that!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> )

Anyway, I hope you understand that reconciling a marriage takes some time. This is more likely to be a marathon than a sprint. You'll need to adopt a PLAN, and you don't want to act rashly in the meantime.

The best plan for you right now is going to be 'Plan A'. But it's going to take you a little while to get a working knowledge of it and to decide how you're going to implement it. Rome wasn't built in a day, so relax. Get a deep breath.


Your Plan A will most DEFINATELY put "pressure" on your WH. So will your Plan B if it comes to that. Affairs are addictive, and wayward spouses do NOT give them up without a fight in most cases.

Understand, that until you end this affair....you don't have much of a marriage to save. If what you have now is UNACCEPTABLE to you, then the current parameters MUST change. If they don't, the marrage CANNOT survive.

He's going to try to scare you. He's going to say awful things to you. But you're going to have to stand up for yourself. What's more, you'll need to do it with a certain amount of dignity and grace. In Plan A, you'll need to present yourself as an attractive alternative to your husand's current destructive path. You'll need to put your best foot forward, but you'll also need a backbone of steel.

It's a balancing act on a tightwire and it's unnerving to say the least.

Give some consideration to Exposure. Spend some time thinking about the benefits of it. Who are the people who would have the most influence on the affair partners? Which people would use their "influence" in your favor?

Remember that affairs THRIVE in the dark, and they wilt when brought out into the light. Affairs are built around a fantasy in so many ways. When Reality begins to intrude, they lose their luster.

I can promise you that if you elect to "expose", your mate will 'go off like a ballistic missile'. It's not pretty, and you'll need to prepare yourself for the EXPLOSION. But, exposure becomes more and more difficult as time goes by, so you might want to put some thought into it now.

You know your situation best, of course, and you'll decide what's right for you. In mine, "exposure" was not necessary. My husband was VERY motivated to save the marriage. Still, I did ask him to 'talk it out' with two of his closest male relatives. Confession is good for the soul, right? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

You'll need to secure your finances. See an attorney if necessary. It will make you feel ALOT better to know what your options are.

As I said before, an understanding of the male midlife crisis is going to serve you well. In my situation, I was able to detach from some of the hurt feelings I had been suffering. I realized that my husband was going through something that had changed his thought-process, so I was able to address it in a more clinical way. When I adopted the notion that this was about HIM, and not so much about ME, I was in a better position to defend my self-esteem. It also helped me to develop patience and sympathy....both of which were invaluable in the reconciliation phase.

Not long ago I was exposed to a man that was diagnosed as a sociopath so I did a little reading. I don't know if the girl you are describing meets the profile or not. These people are not always dangerous but they destroyers. All sociopaths don't hurt people physically, but many murderers are sociopaths, like Scott Peterson. Here are the traits of a sociopath:

Glibness/Superficial Charm
Language can be used without effort by them to confuse and convince their audience. Captivating storytellers that exude self-confidence, they can spin a web that intrigues others. Since they are persuasive, they have the capacity to destroy their critics verbally or emotionally.

Manipulative and Conning
They never recognize the rights of others and see their self-serving behaviors permissible. They appear to be charming, yet are covertly hostile and domineering, seeing their victim as merely an instrument to be used. They dominate and humiliate their victims.

Grandiose Sense of Self
Feels entitled to certain things as "their right." Craves adulation and attendance. Must be the center of attention with their own fantasies as the "spokesman for God," "enlightened," "leader of humankind," etc. Creates an us-versus-them mentality

Pathological Lying
Has no problem lying coolly and easily and it is almost impossible for them to be truthful on a consistent basis. Can create, and get caught up in, a complex belief about their own powers and abilities. Extremely convincing and able to pass lie detector tests.

Lack of Remorse, Shame or Guilt
A deep seated rage, which is split off and repressed, is at their core. Does not see others around them as people, but only as targets and opportunities. Instead of friends, they have victims and accomplices who end up as victims. The end always justifies the means and they let nothing stand in their way.

Shallow Emotions
When they show what seems to be warmth, joy, love and compassion, it is more feigned than experienced and serves an ulterior motive. Outraged by insignificant matters, yet remaining unmoved and cold by what would upset a normal person. Since they are not genuine, neither are their promises.

Incapacity for Love
While they talk about "God's love" they are unable to give or receive it. Since they do not believe in the genuineness of their followers' love, they are very harsh in testing it from their devotees and expect them to feel guilt for their failings. Expects unconditional surrender.

Need for Stimulation
Living on the edge, yet testing the beliefs of their followers with bizarre rules, punishments and behaviors. Verbal outbursts and physical punishments are normal.

Callousness/Lack of Empathy
Unable to empathize with the pain of their victims, having only contempt for others' feelings of distress and readily taking advantage of them. Their skills are used to exploit, abuse and exert power. Since the follower cannot believe their leader would callously hurt them, they rationalize the behavior as necessary for their (or the group's) own "good" and deny the abuse. When devotees become aware of the exploitation it feels like a "spiritual rape" to them.

Poor Behavioral Controls/Impulsive Nature
Rage and abuse, alternating with small expressions of love and approval produce an addictive cycle for abuser and abused, as well as creating hopelessness in the victim. Believe they are all-powerful, all-knowing, entitled to every wish, no sense of personal boundaries, no concern for their impact on others. The followers only see them as near perfect.

Early Behavior Problems/Juvenile Delinquency
Usually has a history of behavioral and academic difficulties, yet "gets by" by conning others. Problems in making and keeping friends; aberrant behaviors such as cruelty to people or animals, stealing, etc.

Irresponsibility/Unreliability
Not concerned about wrecking others' lives and dreams. Oblivious or indifferent to the devastation they cause. Does not accept blame themselves, but blame their followers or others outside their group. Blame reinforces passivity and obedience and produces guilt, shame, terror and conformity in the followers.

Promiscuous Sexual Behavior/Infidelity
Totalist leaders frequently practice promiscuity, child sexual abuse, rape and sexual acting out of all sorts. This is usually kept hidden from all but the inner circle. Stringent sexual control of their followers, such as forced breakups and divorces, removal of children from parents, rules for dating, etc.

Lack of Realistic Life Plan/Parasitic Lifestyle
Tends to move around a lot or makes all encompassing promises for the future. Many groups claim as their goal world-domination or other utopian promises. Great contrast between the leader's opulent lifestyle and the followers' impoverishment. Support by gifts and donations from the followers who are pressured to give through fear and guilt. Highly sensitive to their own pain and health.

Criminal or Entrepreneurial Versatility
Changes their image and that of the group as needed to avoid prosecution and to increase income and to recruit a range of members. Is able to adapt or relocate as needed to preserve the group. Can resurface later with a new name, a new front group and a new twist on the scam.

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Other Related Qualities:


Contemptuous of those who seek to understand them
Does not perceive that anything is wrong with them
Authoritarian
Secretive
Paranoid
Only rarely in difficulty with the law, but seeks out situations where their tyrannical behavior will be tolerated, condoned, or admired
Conventional appearance
Goal of enslavement of their victim(s)
Exercises despotic control over every aspect of the victim's life
Has an emotional need to justify their crimes and therefore needs their victim's affirmation (respect, gratitude and love)
Ultimate goal is the creation of a willing victim
Incapable of real human attachment to another
Unable to feel remorse or guilt
Extreme narcissism and grandiose
May state readily that their goal is to rule the world