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Why is it that modern women do things to men that they would scream about if men did them to women???
Specifically, they can be very sexually demanding at the beginning of a relationship before they even get to know what a guy is about. Over the last few months I have dated several women who have let me know no latter than the 3rd date, that I had better be good in bed or there is no future for a relationship. On top of that, durring conversations with female friends, when sex comes up, they make similar comments.
Can you imagine the comments if a man said the same thing to a woman on the 3rd date?
Now, I know what some of your are thinking. Old Auto had a date with a hot babe and couldn't handle her. Not so! Though I have to admit that durring my latest date I was so busy being handled, I never got a chance to do much handling myself! That's what led to me bringing up this subject.
I am looking for a real relationship, not a blow-tourching torrid affair. And I am concerned that over emphasis on sex early hurts the chances for a close, meaningful relationship.
I fear that this tendency of women to place so much emphasis on a man's sexual skill level (as defined by her and only her!) will combine with the regretable tendency in our society to demonize and suppress masculinity. And the combination will further damage men and keep them from being all they can be. This will be bad for both men and women.
I have more to say, but I will wait for a while. It's time to leave for church.
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*tip toeing in here* OY Auto, I almost hesitate to post based on the title of your thread, which, I have to say, makes you sound bitter and angry, but I think you bring up some good points..... Over the last few months I have dated several women who have let me know no latter than the 3rd date, that I had better be good in bed or there is no future for a relationship. Well, I guess in this day and age of online romance and internet dating, I guess these women want to cut to the chase, but I agree w/ you here, I cannot imagine saying that to anyone on the 3rd date. Honestly, I'm sure the women you are dating are in their 30's/40's, we know what we want, and you know, we DO hit our sexual peak at this age, good sex IS important, but good heavens, where's romance these days?? I don't blame you for being turned off by it. Can you imagine the comments if a man said the same thing to a woman on the 3rd date? I hear ya...if some guy ever says to me, on the 3rd date, "hey girl, you better put out, or this isn't going anywhere", I'd be feeling the same way as you are. There is a definite double-standard out there...... I am looking for a real relationship, not a blow-tourching torrid affair. And I am concerned that over emphasis on sex early hurts the chances for a close, meaningful relationship. I couldn't agree w/ you more, except the blow-torching bit....I'm looking for a blow-torching real relationship, full of passion and friendship. It can be had. Just ask AGG <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> You are just weeding thru the bad ones right now....don't give up and try not to lump us all into the desperate emasculating x-housewife <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> category based on a few bad apples. DW
DW--BW....separated/divorced since 2003
Re-married 7/09!
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Goodness gracious. That's really kinda... well, not quite nice. I personally would hate for anyone on any date to tell me I better be good in the sack. After all, I'm not a professsional here. I'm strickly at amateur status.
Maybe that's what you ought to tell these women. "Hey, Babe, it's like the man said, 'You get what you pay for.'"
Seriously, not all women are like that. I think those women are probably the exception. I know I would never say anything like that to anyone.
Divorced.
2 Girls
Remarried 10/11/08
Widowed 11/5/08
Remarrying 12/17/15
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Hey auto, if this is typical of the women you date I think it's time to re-evaluate the criteria by which you are attracted to & pick women by. Never would I say this to any man. I can't imagine what I'd do if a man said I better be good in bed. He'd never find out I know that for certain. Perhaps he'd go home lighter in the pants due to a Lauraina Bobbit. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" /> Maybe this the result of women being more independent & not needing a man. What women find they need a man for is sexual satisfaction & little else. Match that up with a demanding, self-centered woman & you'll probably end up with the women you've been dating. Let's hope they don't have children. Women have heard similar things from men but more in line with attractiveness.
Formerly nam
here since 07/31/03
coastal, CT
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I'm a bit lost myself.
I have been out with 3 guys in the past 8 months.
Two of which seemed to want to progress things quite quickly, first dates. [didn't happen btw]
I don't understand the urgency to progress to physical so quickly.
I want the slow build up. Get to know someone, then if the feelings are there, add physical in baby steps.
Karona
Divorced 12/17/2003
Formerly KEB1205 Reg 9/02
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Hi. The title for this thread is supposed to be a bit fun and clever. I am not bitter or angry at all. But, I am a bit shocked at some of the attitudes I have picked up on . Not here, but out in the dating world.
Last edited by auto009988; 01/29/06 07:37 PM.
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Might this preoccupation with sex in women of the late 40's and 50's have something to do with proving they are still desireable? Do women at that time of life have an internal need to prove to themselves that they are still sexy, desireble females, capable of driving a man to fits of lustful frenzy? Or should I check the online profiles for a "middle aged woman, who likes to relax and watch TV, and never does anything more interesting than knitting"??? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />
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Hi. The title for this thread is supposed to be a bit fun and clever. Oops, my bad then Auto....one of the many pitfalls of non-verbal communication, no? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" /> Might this preoccupation with sex in women of the late 40's and 50's have something to do with proving they are still desireable? Do women at that time of life have an internal need to prove to themselves that they are still sexy, desireble females, capable of driving a man to fits of lustful frenzy? Hmmmm, I don't really know Auto, I guess that could apply to some. I mean, we all want to look good and be desireable, but I gotta be honest here....and I only speak for myself, but, er, it seems more biological at this age <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> Think back to when you were a teenage boy....hormones running rampant....it's kinda that way for women at this age, to a lesser degree, but better b/c not only do we have the desire, but knowledge and experience to go along w/ it! As for the attitudes and women you've encountered, I just think they are plain rude. Who says something like that on the 3rd date? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> DW
DW--BW....separated/divorced since 2003
Re-married 7/09!
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Might this preoccupation with sex in women of the late 40's and 50's have something to do with proving they are still desireable? It could be that us early 40's have realized that we are in our sexual peak and want a truly great experience. I truly don't think it's about desireability, as much as it is identifying a true need and acting upon it. I'm tired of 40 something guys claiming their libidos are low. Why bother?
It was a marriage that never really started.
H: Conflict Avoider, NPD No communication skills (Confirmed by MC) Me: Enabler
Sep'd 12/01, D'd 08/03.
My joys and the light of my life: DD 11, DD 9
*Approach life and situations from the point of love - not from fear.*
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I'm tired of 40 something guys claiming their libidos are low. Why bother? Huh? Low libidos - is that a Mexican dish? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> FR
You gain strength, courage, and confidence by every experience in which you stop to look fear in the face. Challenges can be stepping stones or stumbling blocks. It’s just a matter of how you look at them. The purpose of life is to live it, to reach out eagerly and without fear for newer and richer experience
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[color:"green"]I agree with newly. While I would never ever in a million years say (especially by the third date <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />) say that he had better be good or forget it, I will admit that I refuse to settle for crumbs.
Let's face it - men and women have different sexual needs. Men can rev up and go in a matter of minutes or seconds, women need a longer rev up time and not all men are willing to take the time.
I had an ex tell me that "none of the other women he was with had complained" and also that "he had once before been with someone who just couldn't get there". I had an ex with PE who used to tell me that "you are just too exciting" and "if we did it more often then this wouldn't be a problem".
Knowing myself and my own body I rejected the first set of excuses (take a little time and I am there) and being naive I accepted and tried to accommodate the second set of excuses. (every night baby - should have been frequent and boring enough for any man - but him)
I think by their 40s, most women know that it can be good if a man will help them to make it good. They also are aware of how lazy and selfish a man can be by the way "quickies" are the main meal with only an occasional desert. I think any man concerned about his woman's satisfaction would educate himself in order to please her.
That being said, I have to wonder if the women you are dealing with aren't kind of sleazy. I find it shocking that they would demand performance from a casual date.
Oh and the low libidos thing?! I've heard complaints from girlfriends and guys about how after 40 things aren't working well for the guy anymore - at least not reliably. So if your love life is focussed on that part which ain't working, I don't blame a woman for passing on it...
V. [/color]
Last edited by sunnyva39; 01/30/06 11:10 AM.
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Over the last few months I have dated several women who have let me know no latter than the 3rd date, that I had better be good in bed or there is no future for a relationship. On top of that, durring conversations with female friends, when sex comes up, they make similar comments. Could some of this really just be in a joking way??? Could it be that women today want to take the mans role in the R??? Could it be that talking about sex with someone of the same sex or the opposite sex is like talking about the weather - it's become very casual? very open - sit and watch some prime time tv - there is nothing left to the imagination anymore. Count the members on this board that have had infidelity wreck havoc on their lives. Remember there are men and women out there that only want a sexual R - no strings attached. With the busy lives many people lead - single parent, 2 jobs, etc.etc. some people don't have time or the energy to devote to a full time R. I will say that after having a deplorable sex life w/my WH -I won't settle for that again IF I have another R. I went from being a healthly sexual women to someone that put up w/years of rejection and I'll be darned if I'll let someone treat me like that again...Some of us become stronger because of the hand we were dealt. HUGS
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sunny and newly...
The attitudes you've both demonstrated are exactly what Auto is talking about. If men had come on here and wrote what you have, we'd be lambasted.
I will tell you this...my married sex life became boring and unfullfilling. I tried everything I knew...time, skills, attention, dinner, dancing, and diamonds...all to no avail. She was just not concerned about spicing up our SF.
So, everything you've written about men here...I promise you, I feel the same way about the next woman I become involved with. As Auto wrote about...she had better be good at SF or that relationship will go nowhere.
So, let's all be honest. There are some of us...men and women alike...for whom great SF is going to be a high priority. It won't be for others. There's nothing wrong with either.
People on opposite sides of this fence probably shouldn't date. And I think it's healthy to identify this early in a relationship.
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Possibly, but I can't see either of us telling someone "he had better be good at SF". Most of us would not be so forward or offputting.
I do want the chemistry, and believe I can find the "whole package"
It was a marriage that never really started.
H: Conflict Avoider, NPD No communication skills (Confirmed by MC) Me: Enabler
Sep'd 12/01, D'd 08/03.
My joys and the light of my life: DD 11, DD 9
*Approach life and situations from the point of love - not from fear.*
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[color:"green"]LO, I don't think anyone is lambasting anyone for their attitudes - I'm sorry if you see it as such. Women as well as men have been rejected, neglected, or subjected to a whole slew of negative sexual experiences and everyone that wants one deserves a fulfilling sex life. The only person that can fulfill that very special role is your spouse or SO, casual partner, <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" /> depending on where your level of morality lies. While I DO NOT approve of the women auto has encountered who make it clear by three dates that "it had better be good", I DO agree with the statement. Just not the timing. If a man told me (in three dates) that I had better be good or else, I would be shocked. It would almost seem as if it were a challenge to me to prove myself and a big red flag. If I were with a man and it was NOT good, I would ask for what I would like and if that were beyond him, then I would have to make a decision about whether I could live with his limitations in fulfilling an SF need or not. I would think that this would be the same for a man who finds himself with a woman that can't or won't please him in some way. As for your statement about "those" kinds of people who don't have a high SF need staying out of the dating pool, I have this to say. I would agree that it doesn't seem fair at all that someone who just plain doesn't like that part of a relationship should stay away from those who do. I think that people seek relationships when they are lonely and not necessarily for a sex partner. It would also seem deceptive that someone would pretend to like it until you were "hooked". V.[/color]
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As for your statement about "those" kinds of people who don't have a high SF need staying out of the dating pool This not what I said. I said that two people, one for whom this is a high priority...and the other for whom it is not...should not date each other. Also, I didn't say anyone was lambasting anyone...I DID say that a man writing the things you and newly wrote WOULD be lambasted...and I believe it is true. I think Auto is encountering people who have different ideas about this than he does...that's ok.
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Here, I've revised your note to reverse the gender... [color:"green"]I agree with newly. While I would never ever in a million years say (especially by the third date <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />) say that she had better be good or forget it, I will admit that I refuse to settle for crumbs.
Let's face it - men and women have different sexual needs. Some women assume that men can rev up and go in a matter of minutes or seconds, while men don't always realize that women need more time. Women are often disappointed if their partner isn't ready to go immediately and think that he is defective or a poor lover.
I had an ex tell me that "none of the other men she was with had complained" and also that "she had once before been with someone who just couldn't get there". I had an ex with who used to tell me that "sex is just not that important to me" and "as long as we do it when you want to there isn't a problem".
Knowing myself and my own body I rejected the first set of excuses (take a little time and I am there) and being naive I accepted and tried to accept the second set of excuses. (once a week - should not have been too much of an imposition for any woman - but her)
I think by their 40s, most men know that it can be good if a woman will help them to make it good. They also are aware of how lazy and selfish a woman can be by the way SF becomes a "duty" for them. I think any woman concerned about her man's satisfaction would educate herself in order to please him.
That being said, I have to wonder if the men you are dealing with aren't kind of sleazy. I find it shocking that they would demand performance from a casual date.
Oh and the low libidos thing?! I've heard complaints from my guy friends and girls about how before 40 women have just not reached their sexual peak and things just aren't working well. So if your love life is focussed on that part which ain't working, I don't blame a man for passing on it...
V. [/color] That sound about right?
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[color:"green"]LO, Actually you've got "selfish" woman's side pretty down pat. I would suspect that any or all of those comments would have been used by someone that is very self centered. When I say that I wouldn't settle for crumbs, I include the notion that any partner of mine would try just as hard as I try to be pleasing and stimulating. I try very hard. It seems as if you have been treated with very little compassion if what you have posted is drawn from your real life experience. V. [/color]
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Hi Sunny, If a man told me (in three dates) that I had better be good or else, I would be shocked. It would almost seem as if it were a challenge to me to prove myself It IS a challenge. When a women says this to a man no matter how long they have been dating. She is challenging his very manhood. She will learn much from his response about his over all level of confidence I would think. Will it make him angry? Will he cower away from the question? Or does he say."How many orgasms qualify as good" <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> I can see why they ask this question.
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Auto, I'm with DW about the title of your thread. I've seen it several times and was afraid to read what you posted. I get your attempt at tongue in cheek...but inflamatory? Yeah. I think so. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> My two cents...why not ask what these women believe SF represents to them? It is an emotional need, right? It is on the list. What does it symbolize and can that affect what they think "good" really is? LA
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