Are there 'enpowering phrases' a BS can use to give the WS back their guilt? Yes there is.

It is hoped that those who have those phrases will cough them up and share what has helped them with the rest of us.

Here's mine:

BS' enpowering phrase #1.

1. Is that the best you can do/say?!?!??!

When a BS retorts this to the WS or Xws, it lets the WS/Xws know you expect nothing less than the best. A WS tactic is to make the BS think they are guilty and s/b punished by having to watch their spouse have an A. Stupid......

If the WS says they are doing their best, the BS can look at them with a look of disappointment. If it is done over the phone, the BS can say.... well that's sure isn't good enough for our family. Sorry to hear that.....

If the WS admits it is not his/her best, then the BS can say, 'well go and do your best..... you owe us your best, now scat.'

Ok, that's my contribution. I hope it helps.

L.

Two thumbs up, Orchid! You're the business.

Orchid-

I can't really think of anything....but this is a good thread to start....I always looked to you for help in this area, since you are the reverse babble queen <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

God Bless You Orchid,

-Caren

When my FWH is in a hurry for me to be completely recovered, I ask him sincerely, if it were I who had the affair, is he certain that he would be completely recovered at this point in time. It makes him think, and his answer is always probably not.

When I still need to use this one I use it alot.
I am or you are and adult (I) you made the choice.

Many a WS will not even give you the "I love you but I am not in love with you". They want to deny you any hope of recovering the marriage they believe to be over. They will attempt to sell you that it is over...and ridicule your desparate and needy attempts to change their mindss if you happen to buy into their loss of love. Your Plan A job is to not accept what they say as the truth (cause it's not)...and to attract them back to your marriage by appearing strong and resolute. What you need to say when you are getting bashed is:

1. "DESPITE YOUR JUSTIFICATIONS AND RATIONALIZATIONS, ...I AM A LOVABLE PERSON WORTHY OF YOUR LOVE AND RESPECT"

2. "I will make it...with or without you I will make it."


If they happen to give you the "I love you but I am not in love with you" speech try these:

1. (The best answer)..."I love you too" (smiling...with a dramatic pause)...but I am having difficulties with your behavior lately too. Let's figure this out together.

2. Well...I love you and I AM in love with you...I am the one still standing beside you despite what you say and I will be the one standing beside you in the end. You are my soulmate and God's perfect gift for me...WE will learn from this experience and eventually develope a stronger and better marriage than we ever had before. This relationship is NOT over. I refuse to accept that.

OR attempt to nail them down on the "I love you part"....with the following:

3. "Ok dear, so you're not "in love" with me but you do "love me"....mmm...I fail to understand how your recent choices are any expression of any kind of "love" for me. Please explain.

Another alternative:

4. So does that mean you are "in love" with OP but you don't really "love her/him"...I mean what do you really know about this person you are willing to destroy our lives together and our family for?

How can the secret, short-live, albeit passionate tryst you've had with OP being even the slightest bit comparable to the years we've been together or worth the devastation you will place upon our children?


Finally, a BS should always be armed with the insurmountable query:

1. "When is it ever right to have an affair"?

Which can then be followed up with a discussion that there were and are so many options available to fixing this marriage or just ending it without magnifying the problems by involving a third party. If you want out, with your intregity and honor, then end it with OP, completely, right now: and, in 6 months if things don't improve I will gladly release you.



There may be a disrespectful judgment or two found in there that are not advisable. I also think Harley advises against any kind of 6 month bargain...it's really just a Plan A ploy to bust up the affair anyway possible. I kind of just came up with these on the fly...if you want me to amend them please alter away or email me what I should edit...no worries.

Good luck,

Mr. Wondering

"Marrying a known adulterer - how much sense does THAT make?"

WAT

Recently there's been a public service commercial on the Lobotomy Box about how a person convicted of a crime sentences his or her whole family with them.

I haven't voiced it (yet), but here's one:

"It only takes one affair 2 destroy 2 families."

-ol' 2long

But there are a few I HAVE used. Ac2ally, a lot. But a few stand out as particularly significant for me because they produced results - synapses fired in the fog.

When I discovered contact hadn't stopped last April, we came as close 2 filing for DV as we ever were by late May. My W was at her OOSP for a month during June, and kept calling and emailing me. I'd answer the small talk, but asked her at one point 2 "please get rid of RM", 2 which she replied that she was sorry that I insisted on living in the past.

So, I said: "I agree that we shouldn't live in the past, but RM isn't IN the past, and your family and I need him 2 be."

That STILL didn't end contact, though it was pretty sporadic after that. But that, and my W realizing that her best friend advocated a spiteful lifestyle, made her realize, on her own, that she was continuing contact as much out of spite as out of attachment.

Then, when she heard that RM was engaged 2 his GF last september (apparently through direct contact with him), and she came 2 me and told me immediately afterward, I said something that threw her for a loop:

"What could marriage possibly mean 2 him?" and "I don't consider this any kind of 'reassurance' at all. He cheated on his first W most of their M. He'll probably cheat on this one."

Things have been getting slowly, but markedly, better since.

-ol' 2long

I've recently found stbxh's website, with trashy pictures of girls-- he's the photographer-- and I called to tell him how greatly it has upset me.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> He doesn't understand why I am so upset.

"I don't sleep with them. I just take the photographs, then I go home."

Here's my reverse babble:
"Imagine this. You have a pretty gf. She feels she need a boob job.
(that's him wanting a new camera)

She goes on and on about the boob job tills she gets it.
Then she is happy for a while.
Then she says, 'I love my boobs now. I love how men look at them.
Honey I just love the attention!"
(That's him finding his 'soul' in photography and how he can now take photographs... hands holding air camera, click click click)
Then, before you know it, she disappears every weekend.
And a few months later, you find a website of her, displaying her legs, butt, boobs and grinning like it's the best shot ever.

You call her to tell her how upset you are over those pictures, and she says:
"Honey I just model. Then I go home. I don't sleep with the photographer."

How's that for reverse babble? Did I get it right? Do you think WH understands?

Actually, his answer was:
"That's the reason I don't date models."

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

"If it's OK for you to go out, why do you lie to children about where you go?"

"So you think it would be OK to restructure MY boundaries and say... choose not to feed you any more?"

"I am struggling a bit with your parents calling and wondering where you are. Could you explain it to them so I don't have to lie anymore?"

Warning: Poingiant, fog-piercing talk usually results in lumps.

B I N G O.........!!!!!! GREAT ANSWER !!! It doesn't get any more "empowering" than an attitude like that !!!

There is no reason to have to "give back" any guilt if you refuse to take it (guilt) from them in the first place.

I know what love is and THAT (the A) is NOT love.

Oh I guess it depends on the intentions. If you want to sound clever, I can think of a myrid of phrases one could use.

If you want to save your marriage, well, not too many come to mind.

There have been a lot of clever ones on this thread so far . . . there aren't many that I can see that would help a WS reconsider a marriage to the BS. Perhaps that wasn't the point of the thread, but to belittle the WS? I guess that's alright.

I had been getting the "I don't want you to expect too much from me" talk from my now XH. He told me that was why he was cruel in many of the things he said. This was my response in MC (I copied it from my post on 8/11/04).

Can I ask for a favor? Can you let ME be responsible for my hopes and expectations? I can handle them myself and I don't feel I need anyone else to control them for me.

I'm going to let you in on something very personal. I 100% believe you WILL leave on Sept. 15th. I have a hope that you won't, but I fully expect you to do just that. So you won't be crushing anything, only fullfilling an expectation I have to begin with.

The reason I didn't get upset and emotional when you returned and said you no longer want to work on things was because I EXPECTED it. When you sent some of your belongings to her, I EXPECTED it. When you called her from our house the last few days and thought I didn't know I never got mad or even confronted you because I EXPECTED it.

So please don't be cruel or angry because of what you perceive to be my unrealistic expectations because at this time I do not have any illusions as to your intent, desire to be honest, or love for me.

It's pretty specific to my own situation, but it gives you an idea. This was especially empowering for me to say. He and the MC just kind of looked at me for a minute and that conversation was pretty much over because his reason to get so angry and to be cruel was pretty much taken away. He had to deal with me as a person.

FIM

This one kept my H from leaving our family for the OW. NC took quite a while longer and we are still struggling...

...It's not fair. Me getting over you means we put the kids through a divorce, custody agreements, visitation, split holidays If you stop the Affair than you just have to get over her.

I swear that I didn't think up that one. I think God put it into my mouth just when my H would hear it and listen.

Loni

Here's one of the things my wife said to me after revealing her A:

"You seemed unhappy in our marriage, you never seemed happy, so I was giving you a Biblical out." (Or words to that effect). I'm a singularly unwitty person most of the time, so I simply told her that the Bible says I can divorce because of infeldility - it doesn't say I have to, so I choose not to.

She told me last night that she feels a little off-balance in our relationship right now because she can't predict me - I have not reacted (and have not been reacting) in my usual ways, nor in the way(s) she expected me to. I'm thinking this is a good thing (given time, my new ways will become my usual ways).

Orchid: The point of this thread was NOT to help a WS reconsider a M to the BS. That's not possible. WS' don't consider anything sensible.

This thread was designed to help the BS feel stronger..... knowing how to put the WS back in their place and give back the babble and guilt the WS try sooo hard to dump on the BS and family.

Belitting the WS? The WS do that all by themselves.

FIM,
I recall you posting about that MC visit. Was glad to see you were strong enough to leave 'em stunned'. LOL!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> You sure went through a lot with that one. eh? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

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