My WW goes to school during the day, comes home for thirty minutes at night and turns around and goes to work for a few hours. She gets home around 11:30 or so.

That's the only time we have to talk. I keep trying to get a feel for where she's at emotionally and in the A. She's not one to voluntarily give up any information at all so I have to dig it out of her.

It's usually around 12:30 before we get to sleep and I've done all the talking while she just sits there and either ignores it or shrugs her shoulders.

I'm sick of it. I'm inches away from chucking plan A and going straight to plan B just to get away from her. I love this woman but she, saying nothing, letting me rant on and just sits back getting steamed, building up more reason to keep me away. I've been saying the same things over and over again for the past three months and I STILL don't think it's sinking in.

She considers this an LB but how else am I supposed to talk to her?

Also, we have an MC session in about an hour or so and I'm reading my NC ultimatum to her, as well as the letter to the OM and the OM's parents. She's not too happy about that but at this point, something drastic needs to be done.

I'll post how it went afterwards. We're also bringing our DD in for a session with our MC until her child psych gets off vacation. For some strange reason, our DD seems to be acting out her frustrationn by being ugly and having absolutely no regard to people's feelings or emotions.

Wish I knew where she gets that from <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />


FN

Allow yourself to let go of the outcome of any conversation ---- if you need help --- pray the Lord's Prayer over and over silently in your head ... or the Serenity Prayer ... mentally chant "God -- help me listen"

whatever it takes to shut your pie hole when all it's doing is spewing your anxiety ....

I'm rootin' fer ya !!!!

Does this qualify as a Plan A? Are you depositing in the love bank by constantly talking to her about relationship issues? I am no Plan A specialist but I am certain this would be more of a love-buster than a love deposit.

Just look at the conditions: Both emotionally drained. Wife physically tired after school and work. Not the ideal situation for serious discussions. I think every session you start convinces her more that it’s over. Her not reacting is just surrender or indifference. Neither good signs.

I am not suggesting you don’t talk to her. Just choose your battles carefully. Rather than reading her the riot act in the MC session consider the following pact: You will limit relationship talk to certain times and certain situations (If possible during MC). You will both try to be respectful of each other. You will both try to do at least one considerate or kind thing for each other daily (can be simple things like making coffee or a sandwich)... Even consider a “time out” where you both commit to no relationship talk for 3-4 days. That allows you to gather your thoughts and for your wife to rest.

Thank you Bigger, that made a lot of sense. I will do that instead. Trust me, I don't like staying up too late either.


FN

Just got out of the MC session and only got to read one letter. Wasn't the sessions I expected.

I started talking about the inability to shutup and it turns out it was a bigger issue than I thought. It's a serious LB on my part and I've been ignoring it.

Seems I can't relinquish control over this to God. I'm having a hard time trusting Him to take care of this no matter what the outcome. I want to get this taken care of and behind us now and can't let go of the reigns.

By this, I'm pushing her farther and farther away. I knew it but didn't want to admit it. I have a feeling there's going to be some serious downtime between these little talks too. Since it's a new year, my insurance requires me to mee my deductible before the start taking care of the co-pay.

That sucks because the MC fee is $100 per hour and my deductable is 3k <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> So I don't know when the next session's going to be and it worries me.

I think I've screwed this up way too much now <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />


FN

this is you trying to grab power over the situation again ... just pointing it out to you so you can begin to recognize when it happends

You give yourself too much power to FIX things and too much power to RUIN things ... same coin, flip side

see?

Hehehe, my friend, NEVER, underestimate my power to screw something up <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

I think I see what you're saying, but trust me, I feel like I bombed on this one.


Z

The reigns are an illusion ya know ....

You and I have some similar personality traits ... in case you wonder why I am 2X4 ing you on this issue <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

The 12 Steps to Total and Complete Insanity <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

We admitted we were powerless over nothing. We could manage our lives perfectly and we could manage those of anyone else that would allow it.


Came to believe that there was no power greater than ourselves, and the rest of the world was insane.


Made a decision to have our loved ones and friends turn their wills and their lives over to our care.


Made a searching and fearless moral inventory of everyone we knew.


Admitted to the whole world at large the exact nature of their wrongs.


Were entirely ready to make others straighten up and do right.


Demanded others to either "shape up or ship out".


Made a list of anyone who had ever harmed us and became willing to go to any lengths to get even with them all.


Got direct revenge on such people whenever possible except when to do so would cost us our own lives, or at the very least, a jail sentence.


Continued to take inventory of others, and when they were wrong promptly and repeatedly told them about it.


Sought through nagging to improve our relations with others as we couldn't understand them at all, asking only that they knuckle under and do things our way.


Having had a complete physical, emotional and spiritual breakdown as a result of these steps, we tried to blame it on others and to get sympathy and pity in all our affairs.

Oh, I know about the illusion. No matter what I do, I can't, nor do I wish to control her free will. I just have a hard time sitting back and NOT doing anything. Or at least not doing what I think I should be doing.

Which means what I THINK I'm supposed to be doing is wrong <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

Um... yeah...

Anyways, now that I'm thoroughly confused, please hit me with that 2X4 again.


FN

When you work on your own personal issues, you are NOT sitting back and doing nothing <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

BAM!!! Right in the nose!

Yeah, you're right. You know, it's just that I miss her so much, it's hard not to be pro-active in trying to do something.

However, I can already feel a big weight off my shoulders in not having to force it to work and just being a lovong husabnd again <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" /> Tonight we're going to see Nanny McFee. It's a treat for all of us, but my wife knows I have a secret crush on Ema Thompson <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> Maybe she thinks the bucktooth and moles will help me overcome that.


FN

*BAM*

working on YOU is proactive

"doh"

guess what?

one of my Dear Mr Pep's emails is very similar to your MB name <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

???? Ya lost me.

I got my screen name because of the graphics company I own. The name is 3 Nails Graphics, anyways, there was a sermon my pastor preached one time on the three nails that heald Jesus to the cross. He said that the nails didn't matter and that his love for us would have kept him there anyways.

Hence, me being the 4th nail.

Anyone who knows me outside this place knows I use the same screen name anyways. NP, I have nothing to hide anymore.


FN

I’m going to suggest one thing that is waaaay out there…. Rather than flog your wife with the talk you have tried so long or wait for the next MC session or even try to get to the bottom of your relationship then try to have a relationship.

Look – you are both adults. You must both realize that there is no point in going on like you are right now. And since neither she nor you have already left there is some will to reconcile. You are just not going about it the right way. So change methods…

Stick to Plan A. Let’s have that clear. But rather than wait for her to get up and dance with you then try the following. Be patient and considerate for 2-3 days. Then TALK (not harangue or dictate) to her about how the present methods are not working. Suggest that for some time now you no longer focus on the future or the affair or your past behaviour. Just focus on being good and considerate to each other. That might include that you decide to spend time together (personally I strongly recommend taking walks together). Spend some times breaking down the enmity around you two and create an environment of care and friendship.

Look – if reconciliation is your aim then it’s always a long time event. It takes 2-3 years at a minimum. With luck you have a lifetime of getting answers.

One problem is that I don't think she's sticking to Plan A. She says she hasn't talked to him in a couple weeks and that they're just friends. A friend she's slept with and wishes to leave with once she's graduated school. She says however that it may not work out between them and she has to be ale to leave on her own without any help from me or him.

That's her deadline. She has until August before she graduates and is able to live on her own. Until then, I have to support her. I don't want to kick her out, the fact that she's in the same bed with me still tells me there's hope. I know long distance relationships don't work out, so I have that in my favor too I guess.


FN

Just a few points. A bit around the park but they do touch a number of subjects.

Since she is a WW she should not be in Plan A. Plan A is what YOU use to entice her back. She should preferably be in No Contact with OM and just tolerating you a little bit better each day. If you do YOUR Plan A properly then she will come back.

I think the two of you are possibly caught in a vicious cycle. She comes home and listens to your monologue. Doesn’t see much use in answering and mopes about OM. Neither of you getting anything positive out of it other than she gets reaffirment that you are an [email]a@@hole[/email] (sorry – putting her words in my mouth). So break that cycle.

Have you sent the letters to OM and OM family? Have you done all you can to kill the affair?

August is a long way off and you can rebuild her love for you but you do that by placing deposits in the love bank – not withdrawing. And BTW – you have no obligation to support her until August. If she insists the marriage is over and is adamant about not trying to reconcile you could separate and divorce. It’s her choice to be in school without an income and it’s her choice to have an affair. So I think the August deadline and you saying you “have to support her” are maybe more of your making than hers.

Haven’t you ever had to get your kid’s out of a bad mood? One of the oldest tricks is to change subjects. Make them forget why they were angry. I’m suggesting you do the same to WW. Be as nice as you can for a couple of days. Then ask for some effort (carefully). Just baby steps. Progress from there. If she is really not willing to take baby steps with you then maybe you need to step up the affair breaking or even file.

Thanks Bigger, my MC was saying the same thing about changing the subject. About the letters, my MC, while he agrees that they need to be sent, suggested I wait a bit.

His reasoning was that I put them on the alter and make sure I'm sending them for the right reasons. While they're necessary and will be sent, he suggests that I don't send them out of spite or for a need for revenge. I don't think I am, but did agree to wait a couple days to make sure. I will be giving her letter to her in a couple days as well.

I was missunderstanding the whole Plan A concept I guess. I thought it was tied into the NC and maybe it is, but I was puting that before my responsibility to the plan. I'm going to give that some time first before I send the letters off.


Thanks, oh and by the way, I wrote her a real cool poem today. I posted it in the creative ideas section but I'll post it here as well.

--------------------------------------------

My Love (working title) – by FN

My love, on the longest of days, basks in the sun of her youth
Fragile skin warmed by his gaze and the fire of his love for her
Chestnut hair lightened by his touch and rich amber eyes glow with his passion
Short breaths in the salty air as she revels in his presence on the shore of their lives

My love enjoys the mild nip of love in the air at the rise of the harvest moon
Her love, a radiant embrace, endures the beginning of colder times
Tenderly wraps herself in the love of her family and keeps them close
A peaceful celebration of the turning of the season with laughter and cheerfulness
in the comfort of her loving home.

My love now guards her heart during the short solstice of bitter life
Painfully cringes at the pale wind as it whips the hair covering her face
Suffering, hiding her love in fear that it will freeze and shatter in the exposed open air
Quietly longing for better days and spring, when the joy of life and the love of her gazing sun returns to once again warm her heart.

My love will once again run through the vernal fields of her resurrected hope
The sun that was once hidden from her again warms her body and face
Playful, adorning her hair with wild flowers, picked fresh from the field of life
And once again rejoicing in understanding that love, like her beloved sun has many faces, and that all his faces wait patiently, eager to bestow warmth and love eternal.


FN