Looking for Mortarman. Was told that He specically can help me. thanks.

What's up?

In His arms.

Was told by my pastor to look for you when I got on this site. I am in the military. Pastor told me that you had lots of experience with military issues. I just am wondering how the military handles Affairs, especially if OM is in the military also?

What service?

I am a former inspector general, so handled many of these issues. Rather than go into the particulars of how the military handles affairs, why dont you give me your situation, and I can help guide you thru the process.

In His arms.

New here, Just found out 12/22/05. what a way to spend christmas. WW admitted to having affair with OM. Wont tell me who it is. But I recently found out who OM is. WW and I seperated in our own home. WW slept in one room and I in the other for about a week till she decided to move in with girlfriend. Girlfriend went out of town for month. WW went to vist her for a weekend out of town and girlfriend told WW that she didnt want to help her hide from her problems. WW didn't know where to go. She didn't want to come home cuz she wants her space and time to figure out what she wants. OM works with WW Girlfriend and were on the same "bussiness" trip together that WW went to visit girlfriend on. WW came home from weekend trip very happy and moved out of Girlfriends house into best male friends house who shares house with OM. So WW is staying in same house as OM. Have found sexually suggestive text messages from OM on WW phone. To lead me to believe that affair continuing even though WW told me he had moved. OM is married but wife lives in different state.OM is in Military and so am I (Navy). dont know if OMW knows about the affair,dont think. Want to be able to shed some light on this affair and bring it out in the open. Want to hire PI but can't afford it. I love my wife and want to reconcile our M. WW has told me many times that the OM has moved and is no longer in the picture but I know that he hasnt, and is still a big part of her life. Any help or opinions with any aspect of my situation would be great. thanks for listening.

Broken,

First off, I was Army, so some things are different. You will have to take what I say and apply it to Navy protocol.

But the UCMJ applies to all in uniform! Time to shed some light on this. If you can get some concrete proof, that would help. If you cant afford a PI, then time to get your buddies to do some "intel missions." You can buy the beer for them later! I wont elaborate on specific actions, as you will have to use your military mind to come up with a plan of action. But suffice it to say, be careful and dont get caught doing anything illegal.

Once you got enough irrefutable evidence, expose. Contact OMW. Then go to the JAG on base. Give him what you have and let him know that you are trying to save your marriage. And you expect the Navy to order this sailor to stay away from your wife, and the sailor should be punished.

You didnt say if you had any kids or not.

Your first mission is to get info and expose. At the same time, Plan A where you can (read up on that here). Try to meet your wife's needs. Try not to love bust. This does not mean you are a door mat! You can still stand up for whats right and for the marriage.

Begin to see where you contributed to the downfall of the marriage and change that. When one person changes, the other HAS to change!

Anyway, get started and report back here with updates or questions. You are lucky because the OM is military! Now, a little pressure by you on the military justice system should make things VERY painful for the OM.

And I so love making things painful for OPs!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

In His arms.

Broken,

Adultery is punishable under the UCMJ (Uniformed Code of Military Justice), under General Article 134 (Adultery). It must meet the elements: a) sex, b) they were married and c) that the conduct of the accused was prejudice to the good order and discipline of the armed forces or was of a nature to bring discredit to the service. While you can and should gather evidence, this last part is open to interpretation by the respective commands.
Hope this link helps, it's the Manual for Courts Martial (2005 edition), search it for the article (try page IV-97)
http://sja.hqmc.usmc.mil/Pubs/MCM/2005_MCM.pdf

FYI - Dueling is also a UCMJ offense, believe me I considered it.

V/r, No Way

thanks to both of you. We have no children. And I am glad at least right now. I was 7 when my parents divorced and it traumatized me till I was in high school. I never want that for mine.
Im working on the evidence and hoping to get some very soon.
How can I expose and then go to PLAN A when she is living with the man? The only other option for her is to move back home. I guess thats the only way. or I move out with a friend.
Once I get the evidence I should go to the JAG office and not my and OM's CO? How wiill the JAG handle the issue?
I don't plan on fighting with OM I just want to lift the fog and open it up so that it isn't a secret anymore. And get my wife back.
Isn't me exposing a Big Love Buster?

Sorry to jump in here, (maybe as a former military spouse I'm allowed! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> ) but your question of exposing being a love buster is a common one. It is not a LB. It is an important part of Plan A. (See next: the carrot & stick of plan a)

She will be angry, but it's not because YOU are doing anything wrong by exposing but because you are shining the light on HER behavior. The light of TRUTH. This is not done in an angry way, a vengeful way... just a straightforward way that you are trying to save your marriage.

MSA

No, exposure isn't a big love buster, it's necessary because your marriage has no hope of survival if the affair is ongoing...you have to apply pressure to it.

I don't know if Mortar is suggesting that you expose before you Plan A. You should be Plan Aing right now. Do whatever you can. You are trying to show your wife that the marriage is an attractive alternative to the affair.

Good Luck and God Bless,

-Caren

The Carrot and the Stick of Plan A from Pepperband

The carrot of Plan A


Meeting your wandering spouse's emotional needs.

Making "home" a warm and inviting place to be.

Placing emphasis on what has worked in the marriage.

Showing consistent self improvement in areas where previously lacking.

Stop lovebusting behaviors.

Communicating with a calm reassuring voice and relaxed body language, even in the center of a verbal storm created by the infidel.

Becoming the person any reasonable spouse would want to come home to.

Remaining open to the possibility of recovery.

Offering forgiveness and understanding.



The stick of Plan A


Exposing adultery where it matters most. Exposure that takes the form of a swift and sudden unexpected tsunami of truth.

Not appologizing for exposure or speaking the truth in a kind yet direct way.

Directly communicating the hurt and devastation that the affair has caused.

Not accepting blame for the infidel's choice to become adulterous.

Let the consequences of adultery and infidelity fall freely upon the heads of the adulterous.

Establishing boundaries that disallow the affair to effect children of the marriage, financal security of the marriage, and otherwise ruin innocent bystanders.

Standing up to infidelity as a beast that must be slayed for the good of the family.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Plan A is both a *carrot* and a *stick*.

Broken,
Like Mrs Stowaway says:
"She will be angry, but it's not because YOU are doing anything wrong by exposing but because you are shining the light on HER behavior. The light of TRUTH. This is not done in an angry way, a vengeful way... just a straightforward way that you are trying to save your marriage."
You would be bringing light to a shadowy and wrong affair, a matter of truth and consequences for the WW and OM. You can consult w/ the JAG on what they see as the best course of action.

Do have boundaries though, if she isn't willing to make amends, then be firm about cutting off any more support than is necessary (the stick). Most services have a standard level of support mil members must provide their dependants when there isn't a separation agreement. When you act with dignity and commitment, you will feel an inner strength by doing what's right. I recommend only exposing to who matters, not everyone b/c you do want to avoid the court of public opinion. People like hearing about Jerry Springer stories.

V/r, No way

You are getting good advice. One note...when I was in the IG office, we many times got the soldier...not on the adultery (because there wasnt enough evidence), but on other charges (conduct unbecoming, disobeying a direct order, etc). What we would do is if we even thought there was an appearance of impropriety, we reported it to the commanding general, who would then order the soldier to stay away from the woman (or man, if it was a woman soldier). Then later, they wouldnt stay away...the husband or wife would walk in with photos of them together...and we would bust them for disobeying a direct order. Very bad stuff there!!

On telling his commander, here is my problem. First, I dont know if the Navy has such a thing as an inspector general. If they do, that is who you need to see. An IG in the Army is a fact finder for the commanding general. The IG has no REAL power, except for that the IG is the eyes and ears of the commander. So, when we find something, we dont bust anyone. We report it to the commander, who has all the power!

By reporting it to the IG or the JAG, you insure that this guy's commander wont just sweep it under the rug. The admiral will not want to have to deal with this, so the lower commander will take care of this. In a sense, someone will be looking over his shoulder to make sure that he does take care of this sailor.

It also goes to show this OM that you mean business. When you fire a large caliber weapon like the JAG across this guy's bow (to use a little Navy lingo here <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />), he is gonna know that you are not fooling around.

Now how is your wife gonna feel about it? Well, at first she's gonna be POed! She is then going to realize that you hold the power on whether or not this guy can see her and whether or not this guy goes to the brig. She WILL NOT like that. But guess what? Who cares?!?!?!

As outlined by others above, this is a part of Plan A. As I said before, you are lucky that your OM is in the military. Lucky because you can have people order him to stop seeing or screwing your wife. You are lucky because there are legal repercussions that can be used against him for his criminal behavior. I wish the rest of society had such laws!! I would have had my wife's OM locked up in a minute!!

One more thing. As a sailor, you are duty bound to report this guy. As you know, our oath and our bond as military men is duty, honor, country. This sailor has no honor. None. He cannot be trusted to do the right thing in combat, because he cannot be trusted to do the right thing in his personal life. He has put screwing your wife above his duty, above his honor and above his country. He has put this above his fellow sailors. He does NOT belong in my military...nor yours! So, as one service member to another...you have your duty to do. Make sure you keep your honor and do it!

You said you didnt want to take on the OM. Yes you do! He is the enemy, the affair is the enemy! I'm not saying you physically take him on. But I am saying that there is no reconciliation, no marriage...until this guy is out of the picture. Time to get him out of the picture!!

Any more questions, I am here. I can even help you with some of the intel ops, as my buddies were very successful in doing that for me!

In His arms.

you surely are one bad mamajamma. Glad that I haven't had to go up against you.
When I report this to the JAG office, should I have anything with me i.e. evidence, or anything else? Will they even take my case with out evidence?
What about all the people that are in the military that knew about the affair and did nothing to try and stop it. I have many names of so called friends that knew it was going on and as far as I know never tried to stop it. Do they all fall under the same legal issues as the OM?
I will definetely be talking with the JAG Office soon.
I just want to have concrete evidence before I go any higher then I am at right know. Which brings me to my last question. Intel ops: What is your advice? I have already installed computer Keylogger and asked cell phone company to send itemized phone bill of WW phone to me. What else is there that I can do to get some good concrete evidence?
Anything will help.
thanks.

what would be a good way to approach the financial part of our marriage. currently seperated, WW not living at home. When I do expose she will obviously be mad but what can I do to make sure she doesn't with hold her paycheck from me to use for household bills. I guess it wouldnt be that difficult. I have access to her account and do all the bills since she does not live with me.

Be back on tonight!

In His arms.

Yes, they will take it. But mroe evidence is always better. Their office is always busy. so it will be hard to do anythign in a quick manner if they are the ones that have to go otu and investigate. If you give them the evidence they need, they can take care of things immediately.


Yes. And you should give those names to the JAG officer.


Okay...intel ops. The stuff you listed is good. But you need more! So, here's what you do. For court purposes, you will need a PI...but you said you cant afford one. So, get the buddies together and do some intel ops. I dont know what state you live in and some of this may get you into hot water. I will say for the record...dont do anything illegal. That being said...you do what you need to do. Understand?

By getting patterns in their meeting or being together, you can then scrounge up some cash to pay a PI to go when they are always together. In this way, you only pay for an hour or two of his time and he gets the stuff you will need in court.

In all of this, you should be journaliing. Keepign a log. That is VERY acceptable in court and JAG/IG officers love that kind of stuff!

Another thing you can do is get one of those digital voice activated recording devices. The ones at Radio Shack or online that are like the size of a pen (or a little bigger). Ones that have enough power for a full day run around $100.

Carry that with you always. When you can get around your WW, have her talk about the affair. Get her to talk about it. Be nice and concerned. She will WANT to talk about it, if she thinks you are just listening and no one else can find out. Get her on tape admitting the whole thing.

The next thing I did was record two conversations I had with the OM. I had a script, in which I asked a series of questions while we talked. At first, he denied anything was going on. They were just friends. But later, I would ask questions like "Well, Troll...when my WW spent the night at your house last Thursday, she came home the next day and said she was upset by some of the things you said while you were in bed with her."

What that did was get him to concentrate on the notion that my wife had said somethign to me about him upsetting her. So, he would ask "What did she say I did to upset her? She didnt seem upset that night?"

GOTCHA!!! I got him to admit that she was there that night and to admit they slept together that night. Of course, I lied a little by saying she had called me to say that he had upset her...but hey...I figure lying to an OP isnt a vice!!

Again, there may be more intel ops things you can do here and we can discover this as time goes on. The key is to get them on tape or film or their voices admitting the affair. Once you have that...that boy is busted!

And remember, others know about this thing. Other sailors. And they aint gonna lie to a JAG for this guy. When I was an IG, I was very good at breaking these guys up and getting them to rat out the other guy.

In His arms.