She says I'm predictible and that she's not happy with me. She was torn between me and the OM and on Jan 20th decided to choose him after a couple of weeks of NC. I found out when I unexpectedly wanted to surprize her at her office and saw her email full of OM emails. I LB and got angry b/c she lied to me about NC. She sd she'd been talking with him that week and that she & he are together and I'm out of the picture.

I've been doing Plan A since November's DD, but we don't have much contact. She knows she can "always" come back to me - after all my Plan A is still trying to be helpful and meet her needs. I just bought a new house and she sees that she is welcome there. But she is so wrapped up in the OM that my efforts seem futile and it seems that she doesn't see my Plan A or appreciates anything I've been doing to make a life for us. Yesterday she even asked how I would feel if she married him. Is it time for Plan B? I'm still ok and all this hasn't gotten to me too badly, but she babbles, calls me names and is really mean to me. Her mind and words are all foggy - I know that is to be expected. The waiting for the A to run it's course is grueling.

I feel my love for her slipping, but I KNOW that the A will not last. I also know I cannot and she will not rebuild our relationship until the A is over. I'm trying to limit my contact with her (which is not predictible on my part) except for arranging visitation for our 13mo old son - but it's not been a full Plan B effort. Is this showing no backbone on my part?

What shoud I do? I feel miserable that someone I love so much is causing so much pain. Maybe it is time to formally do Plan B, but I feel like I need to lay more groundwork with Plan A - even though she wants nothing to do with me. If I offer that we do something together she says no. BTW, she's living with her mom & the OM is living with his dad. This sounds like a teenager story but I'm 34, she's 29 & the OM is 35. I make enough that she can be a stay at home mom with our son (her dream) & the OM makes 1/2 of my salary. I just don't see what she sees in him, but she says he makes her happy and that she's been unhappy with me. BTW, they are diametrically opposed in their faith. She's stopped going to church and he's an atheist. She told me earlier during the NC period that this really bothers her. How long must I endure this?

I'm working on myself during this time, but there's only so many Harley books to read. :-P

What's your take?

Dee Gee, did you expose your ww affair to anyone and if so who?

Maybe it is time to expose again?

DeeGee in my experience the WW's seem to "always trade down", don't beat yourself up with"what does she see in him" etc. You can not possibly understand it, it's atypical and crazy, just as my WW did. Left me and 16dd for him. You are not alone in this, just try the MB principles, they may or may not save your M, but it will save you as it did me.
Hang in there

Exposed to her first, her mom, to the OM (which btw earned me WS respect and initiated the her return & NC w/ om, but shortly failed thereafter), some of our friends, a pastor whose wife is her friend, and others. Perhaps it is time again to re-expose since we "got back together" and were doing great as I reported to everyone. As I see more of our friends, I tell them. It seems that whenever I tell someone like my ex-wife for example, she's very curious what I say and if I mentioned the OM. It's like she's ashamed of her actions.

BTW, we're not married b/c she cannot commit. However, I see her as my spouse and so did all our friends. She, however, says I was just a boyfriend and that she did nothing wrong by breaking up in order to date around. The problem with that logic is that she's started being his friend back in Aug/ Sept and that's when all our problems really took off. I'm not the best example of a Christian b/c we made a mistake and have a 13mo-old son, but I am trying move forward by following my Christian values. I want to marry her because I love her and our son. She's in such a fog right now that she's denying her values.

I want to save my family from this A and truly make us a happy family through a marriage. I've been ready to propose to her for a long time, but just when we get close she says she's not ready for a commitment to me. I love her more than I've loved anyone, she rocks my world. Perhaps this is a pipe dream and I'm in the fog too.

Plan A until you just can't take it anymore. The better the Plan A the more effective the Plan B. Even though she won't allow you to meet her needs just keep trying. Your fortitude is being tested. Because you say your love for her is slipping maybe it is time to start setting a timeline. Perhaps a date in April or May that if things haven't changed you will go to Plan B. Just knowing there is a finish line out there can better enable you to handle the insults and disrespect. It's your plan and you are in control of only you and your choices.

Plan B is not a technique to win her back. It happens sometimes but it is a plan whereby you decide your pretty much done...ready to move on with your life...but will hold a little love tucked away in case either the affair dies or she just decides to come back. Plan B lasts 6 months to a year (some have gone longer) before you end up filing the big D. Plan B is not a wallowing period. It is a time you can utilize to grow individually and prepare yourself for a emotionally healthy life without your WW and eventually with a new wife or just as a single guy.

Your recent pulling away a little sounds more like a 180 plan than Plan B. Plan B is silence. Plan B is completely dark. The 180 plan is more like trying to do Plan A but still trying to do things for yourself to become a better person and attract your WW back to you. It is a switch up from being needy, desparate and "predictable". With the 180 plan you are essentially saying, "I am lovable and I am going to make it....I'd prefer to make it with you but either way I will make it."

Good luck,

Mr. Wondering

Bigwave,

I hadn't thought about the "trade down" idea. I offer her everything. She's told me many times that I care for her extreemly well by helping out around the house & with the baby. She really appreciates all I do for her. She, however, isn't interested in filling out the emotional needs questionaire. I offer fin support, domestic support, openness & honestry, admiration, affection - basically all 10 needs I try to meet for her b/c I don't know her top 5. i've also been eliminating the LBs from our relationship.

The OM has zero responsibilities - he lives with his dad for heaven's sake! She says he's the complete opposite of me and that I'm too responsible. I'm debt free except for a new mortgage where I bought us a new house and offer her everything she'd need. Including the desire to learn to meet the needs the OM is meeting - that I apparently wasn't meeting. I'm willing to give my all for our success.

She's all wrapped up in him though and could care less that I'm being kind, compassionate, and willing to meet her needs. Is it time for plan B where the OM get his opportunity?

Dee Gee, I don't know what to say, because it does make a difference that you are not married.

How can you have an affair when you never made that life committment?

I know how painful, married or not, it is to feel betrayed or rejected. You have my sympathy.
I really don't know.

I'm sure someone else here on the board will be able to help you.

Wishing you the best,
K.D's Heartbreak

Mr W. I like your advice. I'm definately NOT ready to give up. I hadn't read about the 180 plan, but that sound like what I'm doing.

It's very frustrating. I ordered SAA and it shoud be here any day. I can hardly wait & am hoping for some encouragement.

KD,
Right, I almost don't know what to do b/c were not married. Harley's book "The One" is for singles and he devotes a couple of pages to this very situation. He recommends plan A/ Plan B. So that's why I'm posting here. In my eyes were in a spousal relationship b/c of our son. In her eyes I was just a boyfriend who won't let her go.

It was an affair b/c we were trying to develop the relationship to a point where she "love me" enought to marry me. She said she's been close but she never went through with it. I want to be married to her - we have so much in common and have so many things going for us. She says she doen't have love for me though - and we both agree that that is a necessary ingredient. We pray about this together. That's why I feel like this really is an affair.

We were together for 2 years before this months breakup on Jan 20th.

I don't think it's sexual with him yet, but I suspect that may happen soon. I also know her convictions and the desires she wants out of life and that the OM cannot give her what she wants. The A will end and she will see what she had with me.

I want to meet her needs but I'm not sure what they are anymore (if I ever did). I know she likes to shop and that seems to be an activity that she & the OM do together. I shopped with her alot when she was pregnant and I still like to go with her. Lately she's been dressing younger & sexier with the new clothing she's been buying with him.

Here's what I do (did) for her.
I buy her flowers, gifts and jewelery.
I show her a lot of affection and always tell her how nice she looks.
I offer financial advice and financial security (both of us are ok financially but she is clueless when it comes to money) I helped her set up a 401k and helped her become totally debt free.
I offer her family commitment and help out with our son alot.
I cook often, do the laundry, clean & vaccume, etc.
I am very handy and fix broken thnigs and with car maintenance.
I used to join her in hobbies & activities (running, birdwatching, church, dining out) but she feels that I "always" wanted to do thing with her and that she was "my hobby"
I'm an open book with her and honest about everything.
I'm a talker and like to talk to her, but she feels that I talk too much by "rambling on and lecturing her" about us and our relationship. I did notice that whenever I would bring the topic of us up, she would get uneasy and withdrawl. I confess that i do want us to be married b/c I love her and cannot think of not sharing my life with her, therefore I wanted us to follow the Harley principals and let her love grow. This annoyed her and maybe even pushed her away. With her previous BF of 4 years, she was the one that wanted to do the relationship books. Now she runs from them. Sorry to get off topic there.

I try to meet all her needs but I have obviously failed. Can you guess what her top needs are? I can't.

We both are outdoor types. The OM is too and does a lot of solo kayaking and running which is what gained her initial interst. I think Rec companionship is definately on her list. She's asked me several times if my income would support her/us as a stay at home mom. But what else?

How can I tell what her needs are and how can I meet those needs when she's all wrapped up in the OM? Should I even try or should I distance myself and act like I'm not pursuing her? Perhaps I pursued her too much. The previous BF of 4 years d/n pursue her at all - it was all her after him. With me I've always been chasing her. She said she loved him dearly, but she d/n love me.

I'm so confused about all this and what I should do.

DeeGee...

Have you exposed to OM's parents? I would be willing to bet that they don't know that you are still in the picture...that you want to be a family, ARE a family, in fact...they need to understand what their son is getting into and breaking apart. Who else can you expose to that would make a difference...who else saw you guys as a "married" couple...a family? When you expose, to those people, ASK THEM WHAT THEY WILL DO to help you recover your family...exposure is a bit trickier for you because you are not married, because not all others will view this as true infidelity...I do understand that you feel married, but others won't necessarily view it that way which is why I think it is important for you to expose to others who would...please don't discount how OM's parent's input could help you...they probably don't want him choosing a "ready made" family, especially when the Dad is going to make waves...I view this as a prime exposure target for you...Also, have you spoken to her mom about how she is enabling her daughter to continue this flight of fancy with an unworthy OM? Her mom is not giving her a realistic view of life, and that is a disservice to her daughter...point that out gently, btw. She needs to be out on her own if she's not with you so that she can see what it's like to be a single mom...right now I would be willing to bet that her mom is acting as a nanny to your child...

The "affairing down" mentioned above is VERY common...My OM was also financially insecure and living with his parents...he is sure to be insecure about that...go about "attacking" these insecurities through your WG(wayward girlfriend)...my husband did that to my OM...I never even knew...For instance, he knew that I would go and tell OM everything that he said, so he did things like inflate the amount of money that I had spent in the past year, which was a figure double what the OM made before child support. Sure enough, when I told OM, OM began to say things like, "I could never give you things like that...could you honestly be happy without all that stuff...OM was questioning his "worth" at every corner. My H also offered for me to get a very expensive(to the OM at least) plastic surgery that I had always wanted. (That really worked to his advantage, #1, he knew that OM could never afford to do that, and #2, he knew that he could plan A like crazy with NC during my 6 week recovery-my A was actually over by the time of the surgery...but my H was still amazing about nurturing me) Think of the things that you can do and provide that OM can't...religion is important to her, tell her you are thinking of teaching a Sunday School class for children...anything that you think that she would admire you for and will know that OM will never be able to give her along those lines. Use your strengths to attack his weaknesses...

Her needs? Well, first, what I see is a woman trying to run away from adult responsiblities...Has she felt family support from you? Do you think that she felt that most of the parenting was falling on her and not you-like her life changed dramatically after your son was born, and yours did not? Also, you say that you are a talker...does this mean that you haven't been listening to her? Or maybe when she expresses something you try to "solve" it, rather than empathizing with her feelings? These are just some things that come to mind...thought I'd throw them out there for you to think about...


Best,

Mrs. Wondering

I've been thinking about her needs some more. I do offer her lots of family support with our son and I help her out financially by managing her rental house & by planning investments, etc. She earns a good salary so there's no need for monitary gifts. The OM earns less than half my income and less than WS. I've been trying to think about what needs he's meeting. He's into literature and poetry. He has a website journal where he discusses his thoughts in terms of various authors. WS finds that appealing b/c using word pictures taps into her feelings and emotions. I know I need to improve in that area and not just try to solve her "problems".

This is driving me nuts. I want to meet her needs but her actions lately don't include talking to me. I think she still likes talking to me and I can usually get her to laugh, but she'll get off the phone quickly when he beeps in. As of this week I started a new job in another city 30 miles away and 2 weeks ago I bought a house for "us" in the same city. The OM lives at his dad's house in this same city. WS likes for me to babysit our son so she can be with him. I gladly want to see our son, but i hate that WS is using me like this. But I know that the more time they're together that the quicker they'll get out of fantasy land - probably not but I like to think so.

This week she is also pushing for us to agree to custody & visitation so that she can get it before a judge. I'm not sure why she's doing this b/c she's not shown much interest in this when I brought it up several weeks ago. Perhaps the OM is pushing fher or this too so that I'm that much more out of the picture. We've not ever fought about our son and haven't had any issues about him. I'm confused about the sudden push for a court approved agreement.

I feel that all I can do is wait this out. I went by the OM's dad's house to expose. i prayed for God to make a way if I'm supposed to meet/talk to him. Three times I've gone by and no one was home each evening. Would a letter be appropriate? WS wd not like this action b/c she feels justified to date whoever she wants b/c "we're broken up". She also feels that she never cheated on me with him. Evidence shows that they started the friendship in September and really were talking & emailing in Oct. In Nov she broke up with me and said she wants to date other people. I exposed th EA before Thanksgiving & got back together for 1 month on Dec13th.

I don't feel like it's time for plan B, but it's kinda like we're doing plan B already. i don't call her, I've moved 30mi away, and she d/n want me to meet any of her needs. However, I have pleanty of desire to be supportive and loving toward her when I do see her and during our brief phone calls.

What do you recommend I do?

I met with WS's coworker tonight. She told me that the OM turned in a notice that he's quitting his job. This is a huge development! The OM works in the same building as WS. He was hanging around too much at WS's desk and his boss forbid him to visit unless he had a valid reason to be there. The OM is irresponsible and is quitting his job. I also found out from our friend that the OM did not have a job (any job) until he was 27 and was living off his college GF's income. What a looser! My WS has a desent income and he is pushing her for the court custody order and child support - aparently so that he can repeat history with WS. WS is still in the fog & is following his advice.

So OM is getting a job in my new city and will be 1 hr from where WS is staying. She works between where she is staying (her moms) and where I just bought a house and now work & also the city where the OM is living and soon to be working. He will be working for his B-I-L as an insurance adjuster.

My question is: Is it time for me to Plan B and let the reality of life hopefully burst their fantasy bubble or should I continue to Plan A as often as WS contacts me?

How long would you estimate the new development will play out?

Deegee, it looks to me like you would be better served by trying a technique called "180." It's kind of a Plan A, in that you work on making yourself as good a person as you can be. That helps your SO see you in the best light possible. Right now, I suspect you’ve been trying really, really hard to meet every one of your SO’s needs and it’s awfully easy to look needy and insecure doing that. 180 will take you out of that cycle and put you on a better path. Here’s a thread that talks about the process. Imbedded in this thread is another one to personal experiences by “Carolkh” who successfully applied the plan. She gives a lot of details in how she did it.

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=3&t=000476


I hope you’ll take a look at that thread. I think it will do more good for you than a dark Plan B.

DeeGee,
I think you have recieved a lot of good advice.

" I'm a talker and like to talk to her, but she feels that I talk too much by "rambling on and lecturing her" about us and our relationship. I did notice that whenever I would bring the topic of us up, she would get uneasy and withdraw"

Women usually want to talk and have you listen. It isn't about "fixing" the problem for us (the Male thing) we just want you to listen!! while we talk through it.

Put God first in your life.
That's what god requires "no other Gods before him"
Show her you are good christian man who loves the lord.

With love and prayer,
VTY

"all things work together for the good of those who love God."

I agree with the posts you've received tonight.

Your XGF had every right to break up with you and date another man. It wasn't really infidelity (even if she started talking and liking him before she broke up with you). Further, there is no marital attachment so your history of needs being met are just different...like you said...she may not miss anything. So the Plan B strategy will not likely work as a technique for winning her back. When you are completely done trying to get her back and perhaps ready to start dating yourself you may want to go to Plan B so you can put the past behind you and detach.

I have suggested this to many a single friend over the years but the number 1 quality you need to look for in a marital mate is a woman that loves and respects you. Your XGF has made a strong indication she does not fit that criteria. Not loving you is not a character flaw....she never made a commitment to you before God. It would be nice if she did come back to you because you have a kid together. But she is not OBLIGATED to give you a chance.

Maybe a change in perspective would be good for you. Be happy she figured it all out for you two before you got married and made a bigger mess of things. Perhaps it was not meant to be. Though you think her choices poor, you honor them and proceed to be friends. In so moving on (with the 180 plan), she may come back to you if you pull yourself together and attract her back. By just sticking around you will be a constant thorn in her current relationship. When it fizzles (like you seem to know it will) where is single mom to look but at you.

But right now she apparently is not to be yours.

Now I am not saying give up. The 180 plan will create conflict in her relationship with OM as he will be threatened with you constantly in the picture. But your plan really can't include any of the stick of Plan A and if you meet too many needs you may cross the line in making her new relationship too easy. Enabling her relationship with OM. It's a delicate balance but you need to do the 180 plan for your best chance to get her back while at the same time preparing yourself to move on should she never come back.

On the backside. As you negotiate child custody try to let a lawyer handle the negotiations on your end. Hire a pit bull. You must fight for your rights to the fullest extent of the law. You will regret not doing so one day. Do not settle for settlements sake unless the deal is favorable. If the law goes against you at least you tried. Further, even if you lose primary custody of your 13 month old and the court goes against your requests, the more you fight today the more likely you'll win in the future when the kid is in school and you file to amend the custody to get more summertime, more weekends or a problem with your XGF's fitness to parent arises. You must be always perceived by the court as never pleased with what they order....remember, squeeky wheel gets the grease.

Remember, do not discuss custody directly with XGF. Let the attorney's handle it. You'll likely be unduly influenced by your hurt and desparate desire to win her back to negotiate effectively. Plus if and when you do fight she is not going to be happy with you. You can hide behind your lawyers and blame them for the hostility...you are merely relying on them to do their job and fight for your best interests. If she offers you a good deal...and your attorney says go for it...then do...but do not accept the every or every other weekend thing. You'll be making her single life to easy....go for some alternating schedule like 3 days you 5 days her or 4/4 day that way the schedule rotates and it becomes more difficult for her to maintain any other relationship. Whatever you agree to you're stuck with for a long time...so now is the time to get it right for your daughter, you and then XGF (in that order).

Good luck,

Mr. Wondering

sorry...it's late and I was interrupted several times...I kind of rambled

Hmm, these are some good points for Plan 180. It sounds like I've been doing this plan for a couple of weeks now already with some hit & miss.

What does everyone think about the OM quitting his job and moving 30 mi from XGF's work?
It's going to be inconveinent for her to see him every afternoon like she had been doing, but it wd also be the same for us if/when we're back together. this feels like a calculated game.

Here's a Plan 180 list of rules from the link above:

For those that are interested in Michelle Weiner Davis's divorce busting 180 degree list, here it is:

1. Do not pursue, reason, chase, beg, plead or
implore.
2. No frequent phone calls.
3. Do not point out good points in marriage.
4. Do not follow her around the house.
5. Do not encourage talk about the future.
6. Do not ask for help from family members.
7. Do not ask for reassurances.
8. Do not buy gifts.
9. Do not schedule dates together.
10. Do not spy on spouse.
11. Do not say "I Love You".
12. Act as if you are moving on with your life.
13. Be cheerful, strong, outgoing and attractive.
14. Don't sit around waiting on your spouse - get busy, do things, go to church, go out with friends, etc.
15. When home with your spouse, (if you usually start the conversation) be scarce or short on words.
16. If you are in the habit of asking your spouse her whereabouts, ASK NOTHING.
17. You need to make your partner think that you have had an awakening and, as far as you are concerned, you are going to move on with your life, with or without your spouse.
18. Do not be nasty, angry or even cold - just pull back and wait to see if spouse notices and, more important, realize what she will be missing
19. No matter what you are feeling TODAY, only show your spouse happiness and contentment. Show her someone she would want to be around.
20. All questions about marriage should be put on hold, until your spouse wants to talk about it (which may be a while).
21. Never lose your cool.
22. Don't be overly enthusiiastic.
23. Do not argue about how she feels (it only makes their feelings stronger).
24. Be patient
25. Listen carefully to what your spouse is really saying to you.
26. Learn to back off, shut up and walk away when you want to speak out.
27. Take care of yourself (exercise, sleep, laugh & focus on all the other parts of your life that are not in turmoil).
28. Be strong and confident and learn to speak softly.
29. Know that if you can do 180, your smallest CONSISTENT actions will be noticed much more than any words you can say or write.
30. Do not be openly desperate or needy even when you are hurting more than ever and are desperate and needy.
31. Do not focus on yourself when communicating with your spouse.
32. Do not believe any of what you hear and less than 50% of what you see. Your spouse will speak in absolute negatives because she is hurting and scared.
33. Do not give up no matter how dark it is or how bad you feel.
34. Do not backslide from your hardearned changes. [color:"blue"] [/color]

Deegee, I don't think anything about the OM moving 30 miles away. It's not that far and they can still get together fairly easily. Your GF only has to take a 30-45 minute trip and she's there. He can do the same thing in reverse. Second, he can move back anytime he decides he wants to. Frankly, I wouldn't assign a lot of significance to his move at all, and none until you observe the effects.

Hmm, maybe I'm just wishful thinking but, once he quits his job, he wont be working in the same building. He'll be in the next city and cannot have lunch with her or go running after work from 4:30 to 5:30 (when she has to pick up our son from daycare).

In short it will be a crimping of their fantasy bubble b/c it will take a more deliberate effort to hang out. Granted it's not that far but it is a little bit or reality that will sink in as for her since she doesn't like to drive 30 - 45 minutes and especially d/n like to drive with a crying baby in the backseat. Also she's a stickler about having the baby in his bed by 8:30 wich further shortens their time together b/c she'd have to leave at 7:30 to meet that goal. At most, they'd only have 2-1/2 hrs together (all 3 of them) and she has to feed the baby during that time too.

Again maybe I'm just wishful thinking, but I think this will be a small reality dose for them both.

I'm praying that her fog will lift and she'll see this guy for who he "really" is - the drifter who's interested in her b/c she can support him. I'm also praying that someone else will come along that captures his attention and that I'll remain focused and patient.

BTW, last night XGF called me at 8:15. I didn't answer & she left a message. She put our son on the phone and was saying "say 'dada', say 'dada'" to which our son repeated those words to me. She then she hung up w/o any further message. Why would sahe do that? I think I would have just hung up and not left a message if I wasn't interested in my ex anymore. What do you think?

I went by her office today b/c we were having cell phone trouble. I asked her if she'd watch DS Saturday night. She sd she has plans to go to a MardiGras parade & it's suppose to be cold, then asked why do you want me to watch him? I sd b/c I'm going to a Valentine's party and kids are not supposed to come, but I asked Cynthia about it & she sd to bring him & she wants to meet him. XGF perked up a little and started to object about DS being around someone she d/n know. I sd it wd be fine and DS would have fun too. that was a calculated plan 180 move to drop Cynthia's name to show that I'm moving on with my life. BTW, Cynthia is a friend from church and we in no way are going to the party together or are together - but EGF can keep wondering about it this weekend.

What do you think?

It's monday morning & I think she is having brief thoughts, maybe second thoughts, about leaving me for the OM. In my last post I mentioned that she called Thurs night & left a message from our son where she was coaxing him to say "dada". Friday I went by her office before lunch to finalize my visitation this weeekend and dropped the hint that I was going to a dinner party Sat "with Cynthia" who wants to meet DS.

Once I picked up DS, I followed plan 180 and d/n contact her or answer my phone. I called her back w/n a couple of hours on Sat to let her know DS was doing fine & we were having a great time - I cut the call short though after 4 minutes. On Sun she clld at 1:30 & I d/n answer. I clld her @ 3:30 & left mssg that she cd pick up DS at 4:30. She clld @ 4:05 & sd she had to get gas. I sd if she's going to be later than 4:30 that she cd pick up DS @6:30 b/c I had somewhere I had to be. She got mad & sd she'd be there before 4:30.

Here's the interesting part. At 4:25 she arrived and came in the house. Of course I had cleaned the house perfectly - it was immaculate with everything put away. It looked the best ever. Keep in mind I just bought the house 3 weeks ago for "us" and she's only been there a few times & she really loved this house when we were shopping around. So she comes in and goes in every room. She didn't say anything but I caould tell she was impressed. She even went into the master bathroom to "rinse off her hands". I helped her carry DS's bags & put them into her car. We got him buckled in and I asked her if I could talk to her for a brief moment. She sd yes so I sat in the passenger seat and asked her if I had done anything wrong when we were together or if I gave her any reason to be mad at me. I'm sure she thought "here we go again", but she sd no. I sd I think so too; that while we were together I was trying very hard to meet her needs and build a relationship together. She nodded her head. I then sd that I've done nothing wrong but I feel like you've been treating me as if you're mad at me and that I'm your enemy. I sd that you broke up with me b/c you were unhappy right? She sd yes. I sd that's fine, you made your choice and are getting on with your life; I'm doing the same with mine. But that's no reason to be mean or hateful to me is it? She said, ok, I got it. No apology or "i'll try to do better". I'm ok with that at this point. The main thing is that I caught her off gaurd b/c I'm sure she thought it was gonig to be a conversation about us getting back together.

I put a "mother's" valentine card (from our DS) into his diaper bag for her to find. She clld me at 9:30 last night saying "Thank you, I just found your card. That was sweet." I sd it was from our son not me. She seemed bubbly about it. I sd have a good night and said bye.

I'm using plan A tactics whenever she's receptive. Otherwise it's plan 180 where I'm getting on with my life and making my self unavailable to her & not immediately answering her calls, etc.

So, what do you think? How much do you think she's thinking about her "choice"?