Why did you feel bad reading my post?

I heard that you think we all want our mates to make us happy. And again, I say, no. Maybe you're saying we all want our mates to BE happy...sure...unless he chooses not to be, of course.

How is it you're so needy? Sweetie...here's where I'm so urged to say, "Aren't we all?" but that isn't true. I've known myself and how needy I was...so I'd better stick to that.

Is your being faithful dependent on his being faithful, loving, caring, admiring...all dependent on him being a certain way?

Or do you love because you choose to love, RC. He doesn't make you and can't make you stop. You do. You choose. If he is obviously cherishing and endeavoring to meet your needs, does it seem easier? Of course! But not the only way.

Do you want to be a loving, caring, admiring and admirable, faithful spouse? Are those things dependent on his actions? Then his integrity will be based on your actions. You believe that's safe, correct? You act your best and he acts his best and there's no problem?

Well, what if he doesn't? You did marry a human, right? What if he slips? What if you get distracted with another problem and ignore his? Does that mean divorce? Nope...means loving anyway. Commitment of mind and will, even when the emotions aren't there. Like Harley said, they'll be there again.

Say his father dies and his grieving process takes over...you feel neglected, unwanted, not loved, admired or cherished...

For awhile...how long? Two years? Three? Depends, doesn't it...

He is choosing not to love you? No. He is neglecting you because he no longer loves you? No.

Or you...caught up in the children and their events, listen with a half-ear to him...he feels neglected...does that mean you don't love him?

See...look at your levels. I'm sure they are more reasonable than even you know they are...and you know that if you believe love is earned, then it is a measured product, can lack, be lost and not regained. Is that really what you believe?

My H's presence gives me admiration. Without a word. Without an action. When he is present, I feel admired.

He chose to be with me. For that hour or day. Presence can be a form of affection, attention, admiration...you are the one feeling it--you pick. That's my belief.

See, when you need the other person to be a certain way, certain times so that YOU get the feelings you want...what's to say they aren't showing love, adoration, affection, admiration and you're the one not feeling it?

They could be sweating pure blood in effort...but if you don't feel it, it's worthless?

Hmmm.

How about being open to the ways he feels he shows love and the way you see it...Five Love Languages (which complements ENs)...but remember, I couldn't feel loved, worthy, valuable to my H when I couldn't feel that in myself.

Wasn't a thing he was/wasn't doing...if I can't feel cherished, then I won't, true?

You are needy--to yourself. You are in great need to admire, accept, adore, validate, understand, enjoy and forgive yourself. Yes.

Read your post...switch everything around...pretend your H was writing this...he needs and you don't provide in the way he wants, when, how and why he wants and needs it. How do you feel, being that calloused and awful to your H?

You're not, obviously. You're loving him the way you want to be love. He wants you to do the same...the way HE wants to be loved. Gosh, what if no one is feeling loved and there's an abundance? You're surrounded and could be drowning in it if you could see...your ways are different. He loves you intensely and wants you to feel it, know it, understand and get it. And he is desperate from the same from you.

That's what connection is about. Not, "Here's what I want from you in this way, when I want it (mindreading), because I'm worth it, and do this or I'll leave you."

How about, "How do you feel loved, H?" Mine said, when I touch him, smile at him, laugh--his primary feeling as part of love is acceptance. He feels not loved, even hated, when I reject him, judge him or feel he doesn't measure up to what I want him to be.

How does that resonate with you?

LA

Wow! I am taken by your post LA. You are right. I am needy. I guess I want WS to do everything and I haven't taken many things that I need to into consideration. I have a lot to think about.

Today is another tense day. I tried to talk to WS today about relations he has to have with OW. He says he has to work with her. I asked him if there was any conversation about anything besides work. He said no. I asked him if she tried to ask abouyt anything else what would he say. He had no reply. Said this isn't an issue and that he doesn't know what he would say. I told him it would make me feel more comfortable if he had a reply that he would give.

He was upset and refused to say anything. He then quickly left our car to go to work. I called my WS's work. I asked for my H. OW answered the phone. I didn't say anything at the time. But then I hung up and called back. I told her that she isn't to have any conversation with my H with the exception of work. She said she was aware of this. Then I hung up the phone.

Was this a LB or a bad move?

Why does he have to work with her? I didn't read back in your thread enough to know why he took time off but didn't seek other employment? It is a normal consequence of the A...my H hated transferring to another store, but did it upon the advice of our MC.

His OW still is at his old one and they have had no contact. Turned out to be the best for him...he got a new built from the ground up! Wouldn't have happened...funny, huh?

Okay...and did you expose at his work?

Lemme know these two things before I answer, 'k?

LA

THey are both in the same work place, (military). He/we would have ot move. SHe is suppose to be moving in a month or so. Also, LA, was I LBing to tel OW to keep off contact.

WS never worte a NC letter. ALso I never exposed to her H. WHen I talke to her this am she was a little cocky. SHeisn't the same OW. A different one.

LA If I expose at work my WS could be demoted. SO I try to deal with it as it is. I haven't exposed to her H either but I've thought seriously about it now being that WS didn't tell me they work together directly in same office, desk right beside each other.

RC..why?

Why did you not tell OWH about the affair? I believed you to a kind, empathetic woman.

I'm stunned.

And in the military, this A is actionable, right? Why didn't you expose to their commanders?

I don't understand at all.

You didn't LB OW...you can't. She LB'd you first. That doesn't give you permission to bodily harm her, because that's against your personsal code. However...

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Tell me your reasons...YOUR reasons, not WH's or OW's...for not exposing and informating, 'k?

LA

Well my H was mad at me about our financial sitaution. he was looking into Dv. This was when he returned from deployment. He hadn't told me however that he was in an A and I didn't know what was going on.

I wanted to tell OWH so many times but WS got an idea that I was going to and told OW about how I had done so the last time. Also he I feared that he would just leave me if I did this. Id on't know what I was thinking.

Now I wish I would've taken the appropiate actions. I feel like I made a deal withthe devil. I still would like for OWH to know. Maybe he needs to know that his M is hanging on a string. But I think OW may have sold him a bill of goods and he probably would believe her over me.

OMH needs to know because he is being manipulated by you if you don't. You are withholding vital information from a spouse who is making choices based on what they know...not what they don't.

Doesn't matter what H thinks or does not...funny how he has broken his oaths to you and to the military. There are sections specific to his actions. And hers.

Fearing he will leave...as I've read so often you wishing you had...is something in you. He has always had the choice, will have the choice to leave or stay. He keeps staying...not because of what you do or don't do...but who you are. His choice, not yours.

Get straight on this, RC...focus. You betrayed yourself, OMH and the military. That's yours. You need to get square...by telling OMH...write a script, keep it simple, straight and factual...then tell the CO. Get out of the way of your H's consequences...then you will have made amends to yourself and the others you hurt, not him, with this betrayal. It is all you can do.

Find out what you were thinking for you...were you fearful for loss of income? You fear others laugh at you, though they do not...you fear being judged unworthy, contemptable...you can change that in yourself.

Doing the hard stuff like this is what will diminish those reactions in yourself. You will be making amends to your self, whom you've harmed most of all.

You can do this. Not as retaliation, but amends. We're humans and make mistakes. We can't undo, but we can demonstrate in our actions that we know what we did wrong and do what we can to rectify our inaction (in your case) or wrongful actions. God gave us our own piece of grace.

I would recommend you going to Al-Anon. A great place to get straight with yourself, others and a blessed perspective on life. Your spouse does not have to be an alcoholic...somewhere in your life...grandparent, aunt, sister, nephew...there is one. You'd be a rare find if you don't. I consider it the best place for recovering control freaks on the planet.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

You can do this. I remember now...you exposed to OWH's in the previous A and he chose to divorce. His choice. He might have chosen that anyway, without your information. At least he made an informed choice.

Give that to another BS who will struggle...along with this website. Be generous, loving and brave, as you were before. You cannot control others or their choices. You did not like your WH keeping you in the dark about his As...why would you do that to someone else, with intent?

LA

I remembered, RC.

I remembered earlier in your thread where everyone said to tell OWH.

They gave you every reason in the book, but no. I believe you felt attacked and blamed.

I didn't think to say, because if you do not tell the truth, why should they?

Now OW is haughty, snippy, not a drop of compassion or remorse. You have to live with that. She has suffered no consequences...not from the military, her H or herself. You got in her way. You saved her from them, from learning something about her power to do damage from her choices.

I remember how hurt and frustrated you were when people kept at you to do it, do it, do the right thing.

Now I feel I might have lost you for I believe I reiterated all those same things.

Didn't think to tell you that you were choosing to act with the devil instead of dance with the divine, huh?

See how much we learn and grow, with every question?

You were very worried about when he went back to work...now I understand.

You're worth more than a turn around the dance floor, RC. You're priceless. You didn't have the A...your H did. Not telling is like keeping a secret...OW & WH kept one from you, so you keep some and you're even?

Where's the security, sweetie?

Where's the payoff in that?


You...are...better...than...that.


Fear not doing the right thing and you won't have to regret.

Fear doing the right thing means you want control.

Let fear stop you from doing what is right, and you will be as guilty as those who didn't do right by you.

On your side, RC. I'm looking out for you--even if you won't look out for yourself right now.

See, had you exposed...the questions you posed today wouldn't have had to be asked...they wouldn't be working together; her H would know and your H could be transparent without qualifying if it is work-related or no. Contact is contact, RC.

See why I say we all have our part...doesn't mean we own the blame or fault...just our parts.

LA

Post deleted by reallyconcerned

Ok La. I'm prepping myself to talk to OWH today. I'm trying to answer your questions. Also, You haven't lost me. Today was hectic and it was hard to get out and a post. Everytime I started there was something else to do.

What was the payoff? At first, it was to try and keep WS from getting a dv. That he was looking into it really made me nervous. However when I thought things over I didn't want a compromised M. By not saying anything I began to realize that thios was exactly what i was getting.

THe whole truth of the matter and my sweeping it under the rug was keeping my WS from seeing the whole picture about it, the seriousness of him violating our vows and his committments to me and military.

What was I fearful of? A lot of things. I mentioned the fear of WS leaving. But also the possibility of our spliting and him running off with someone else (at the time I sensed someone else was in the picture but didn't know for sure). I mean when he was going to leave about the financial situation. SO I did what I felt I could to pacify him and keep him from trying to get a dv. This was pre-exposure of A. So when I found out, I felt that if I said something he wopuld surely leave.

Also, the shame of it. And, I have put a few pounds on, maybe people would laugh at me and say I deserved to be treated this way.

And more importantly, I was concerned with a loss of income on his part if he was demoted, especailly since we are working through our financial situation. And another sort of biggie with me, is him blaming me for the consequences that would follow though he is the one that committed the act.

Of course we've talked about my need for validation. So of course, my concern or preoccupation with how others especially OW would look at me with all the negative my H has said about me. And how his friends might view me as being unworthy are all things that come to mind when I think about WS telling them what has happened.

But I'm growing to understand that what others think isn't important and that it isn't my responsibility to sit back worrying about what others think. They are entitled to their opinion. It does't mean I have to do anything with it. And it does also mean that I'm entitled to dismiss any DJs by people or negative comments. And in the first place I realize that I would be trying to read other's minds and I'm stopping myself in place now with that.

Yes, OW is haughty and defensive. When I told her on the phone yesterday to be sure to keep her conversation to work and work only with my H, though she agreed, she gave a smart butt answer. I was hot for a little while about it, I'll admit it. But then I was able to think things through past her attitude.

LA, there was no security in my keeping silent. However it took me getting away from my fears which I was a little more able to do recently with now understanding that WS works with OW and seeing her and telephone call. I realize after first EA how these things are able to start all over again.

Could you help me a little with script? I've thought about simply saying what has happened and leave OWH to ask questions if he would like and so on. I'm concerned about approaching WS's CO however. Yet, I really feel steps need to be taken to try and seperate the two.

I'm going. WIll post later.

I've posted this question about the script to the general forum also.

How is?

Hi. Are you the H of ______?

My name is _______. My h and your W had an affair during ________ times.

I'm calling because I thought you might want to know.

Answer any questions.

Ok, bye-bye.

Are there any things that should be left out or included?

Thanks.

My H and I are trying to reconcile and I felt that you may want to know also that your M is

I think your script is fine. "I'm sorry to have to inform you that" might be good. And I would say you are trying to reconcile. I would also say, "I've found a lot of help with infidelity at MB"

What comes out, comes out. Because I know you're being very brave and I understand that. Do not think ahead to his reaction...if he isn't believing, it isn't your job to convince him, right? You are informing and that is all you need to do.

If he is crushed (if that is what you fear most) then you can understand. Remember, you aren't doing it to him by informing, your WH & his WW did that, 'k?

I really like the okay, bye bye. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

What did you decide about the CO?

LA

LA, thanks for looking over my script. I figured if OWH has nothing more to ask then I guess I might as well say ok, bye,bye. lol.

I really think it is best for WS not to be around OW. I want to talk to his CO. However I am concerned that he will be so mad. Also, what if CO doesn't believe me. OW has deleted all internet evidence of her email account. though I do have evidence myself. I'm just wondering. SHe is suppose to only be here a month longer or two.

I'm still comtemplating about CO.

rc, yes, your H will be mad. But your marriage can survive anger, it can't survive an ongoing affair. You can give the CO the evidence and he will likely seperate them at work until she does leave. I do expect that the OW might not like that, though. If she has plans to resume her affair, then that would interfere with her plans.

I have talked to OWH's. He suspected it and suspected it with my H. Seems he met my H while he was in town. My H never told me about this. He is very mad. And I'm nervous. Feeling out on the boat alone but I'm going to be brave. Gotta keep going forward.

Post deleted by reallyconcerned

Hon, you did the right thing. Try and be understanding and compassionate, he has just had a HUGE SHOCK. He is SUPPOSED TO BE MAD AND HURT. Does he have your phone #? If he calls back, please be as sympathetic as you can and try to help him with this.

Just because he is angry, does not mean he is a lunatic, it only means he is a normal human being who has been very hurt by your H and his W.

Good job, rc.

We posted at the same time. You were in my thoughts as I answered the post you deleted. Why delete?

Good morning...great to know I didn't lose you--see my own insecurities waving at you? When I say "you're not alone" I really mean it. We are humans. We have a lot in common.

"Also, the shame of it. And, I have put a few pounds on, maybe people would laugh at me and say I deserved to be treated this way."

I might have a problem with being empathetic here because I do stand up...I WANT people laughing at me. However, I do understand that mortifying embarrassment that turns me into red jelly when I feel I've made a blunder. I used to fear that terribly. Kept me from doing what I wanted to do in life...the fun parts.

You've mentioned feeling laughed at before and I am pointing it out because I think it is a big issue with you. I totally understand the payoff when you put it this way...others will think less of me, I should be left, I'm not attractive enough, I got what was coming to me...stuff like that. All generated from within you against you.

RC? Not real.

Nope.

Not at all. What others think (and as Dr. Phil said, you'd be amazed how LITTLE others think of you) is their own. And like yours, their opinions change, and the most thinking they do is about themselves. That's good. That's terrific, because unless they are paying to hear you be funny, they aren't laughing at you.

Believe me.

What you're feeling is an inner shame that has ridden your back for all of your life. You can change that. It isn't as hard as being a BS, I promise.

But it is part of it. Each time you think you're not attractive, smart or strong enough for your WH to choose you, then you are betraying yourself; when you do that, you don't feel loved. You're coaching yourself to NOT feel the love that is given to you--that isn't based in others, but in yourself. Be kinder, gentler, more accepting of your beautiful, intelligent, solid self and you will stop self-betrayal and feel well loved.

I have to go back to how to do this--when you judge others, you judge yourself...stop judging others, be accepting (they are seperate and equal) and be that way to yourself. If you hear others laughing when you walk by, you can choose to stab yourself by believing it is about you, or you can be truer and more loving by choosing to believe they are enrapt in their own world and their laughter is for themselves about themselves.

Which do you believe is most likely?

I had to learn to laugh at myself, RC. That's how I overcame that thunderstruck feeling of doing wrong meant being wrong. There are many things in life that have nothing to do with right or wrong...mistakes are what we decide they are. I began by taking my embarrassing moments and writing them out, then telling them as stories. They were, at first, "She was so dumb" stories that evolved into, "Isn't being me fun?" stories.

I would be happy to share them with you if they help. There is joy and freedom in accepting you will do and say things, believe things, that are not what you judge normal, the shouldn't-happens...because these emphasize we are lovable, forgivable and different. Different is good.

Okay...beat this:

Seven years ago I was a SAHM. I took care of all the bill paying, house, kids, dog, cats, etc. You know the routine. What I hated most were late charges on credit cards. My neighbor came over with two of my bills maybe once every couple of weeks. Postman delivered to wrong address. . Okay...I would call the credit card company and explain. They would remove the late charge. I began to get vigilant with my mail. I noticed a new acronym beginning to show up on the envelopes...D.O.G.--Dropped On Ground. This really irritated me. I told my H about it, complained to the neighbors, and called the credit companies about it...and was on the verge of making an in person complaint at the post office when my H said...

"You are serious about dropped-on-ground?"
"Of course I'm serious."
"Oh. Well..." he looked afraid..."When you put Mike out front, the mailman can't deliver to us."
"DOG..."

Yep...no kidding. Had no clue.

I still laugh about it. H is no longer afraid...of me or for my sanity. See why I say focus on yourself and not what someone is doing to you? LOL

Hope you're smiling, being brave and getting this over with today. Fast. You can even close your eyes if you have to...

Nobody is laughing at you. Just make sure you don't betray yourself. Laughing at yourself is a great thing.

LA