Thank you for the acronym breakdown...and no, I don't know about it. I'll have to check that out. Does sound similar, huh?

I hear your frustration with not getting what you want when you want it. I hear you believe that going after what you want is something you believe in strongly...and I agree. There's a missing section to that statement.

I go after what I want...for me. See, you want to have a thriving marriage, so you do what is in your control (only you) to get there. I am showing you the unreality of controlling behaviors. They are our wishful child and a lot of frustration, anger and resentment come from there.

The reality is that your WH will choose or not choose his actions. You have a belief that you make him choose by limiting his choices...if you do this, I will do this. Well, if that is what you're doing, you're very close to "If you choose to not go to MC, then I will choose to leave this marriage."

That could be seen as you backing up your boundary. The difference is that you are demanding that he choose right now one way, and leaving no room in the future to choose another.

You're not alone...my H desperately wanted me to go to MC during my A...and I wasn't having it. Too much shame, guilt and the very idea of being the bad guy in therapy was too much for me. Funny thing...H went for himself and I came to two sessions...wish I could kick that woman's butt right now--for she sided with me, due to my H's communication problem with her, that he was the problem that had to be fixed. And she knew of my active A. :: However...when it came time for his A, I found marriage recovery seminars, MC...and asked him if he would do it. He did. No kidding, under the strict understanding that he was going to help him decide to leave me or stay in the marriage and work on it.

Did I marry a man who rocks or what?

And he did that IN his A...he did what I wasn't able to do...because he felt no guilt or shame, but vindictive anger and a thirst to punish. I'll take it. Now, had we had someone like his IC (whom he dropped after 10 sessions), we would have been sunk, I think. I got a Christian Marriage Counseling Psychologist. Whew. God guides.

I couldn't make my WH go with threats, limiting his choices or begging. He chose. I respect to this day that he did that. I believed his choice gave us the chance to rebuild. Now, if I believed I made him go, I would never trust his choices. I would believe, if he had complied due to my threat, emotions, etc., that I made him, and therefore, couldn't trust him.

See how they are intertwined? I see BS not understanding why they don't trust their FWH a couple years down the line...that they believe their FWH only want the status quo, just happy to have a marriage...could be with anyone kinda feeling, because they don't trust them to choices. Change the belief.

You can't make anyone choose anything. There is tricky manipulation, but in the end, we retain our choices. Respect them. The more you get that you're seperate and equal, the more you can rely, trust the other person.

The more you believe you control, the more you have to control. The less you believe the other person has a choice only they can make, the less you trust others to make choices you're happy with. The less trust you have, well, the more you have to control, huh?

Lots of work. No breathing room and goodness knows, what if your choices for others aren't the best? Huge responsibility.

And in reality...you have no control. You may believe in it, like bringing on the weather because your bones ache, but you don't.

You may believe others give you their power to choose...put it in your hands and comply with what you want them to do. You may believe that was their choice...to shove it onto you. What you aren't seeing is that each and every time they appear to comply, they are choosing to do so. Or not to do so. Their choice.

I began unravelling my control freak nature five years ago when I asked God to lead me. He led me to this job, then threw in another offer at the same time. I listened to coworkers and family, friends (for a control freak, that's just gathering info so I don't LOOK like a control freak)...and I prayed. I decided on my current job because I let go the control and trusted God.

Did this great and wondrous act keep me from a strew of wrong choices? No. But it was difficult, counter intuitive and NOT ME, I thought, to do this. Helped a lot during all the mess and pain, and a few times I got back to God being in charge and me relieved and comforted that he was there for me.

If you control from fear, desire, want or need...find the root of those fears...see if they are reasonable ones (if you dart across a busy street you are likely to be injured...if you fear being abandoned and loved by no one for the rest of your life, well, that's like jay-walking on a dirt road in Montana...chances are huge in your favor to make it across).

You've got a sharp, experienced and honest adult belief system in place. You just have a few older, stronger ones getting in your way.

Try these on:

When adults behave badly, they will suffer consequences to their actions and not behave badly again. (There's like three beliefs in there.)

Bosses control employees and can make them do stuff.

Spouses should do what it takes to make the other spouse happy.

You don't feel like the #1 priority in your WH's life when he won't do what you want him to do.

There are steps to take that will make your spouse be an upright, respectable man.

There are plans you can execute to insure you are safe from pain and sadness.

You believe you can protect your heart and still live as a human.

You believe you are responsible for your own pain.
You believe your WH is responsible for your pain.
You believe others are not trustworthy to not hurt you.

If you don't do it, it won't get done.

You fear others' wrong choices; choices are wrong when you feel pain from them.

I have faith in you, RC. You are going to see the reality is very different than you want it to be--causes a lot of fear and panic inside of you to realize you have no control. What you don't see is that in reality, you are full of real power you're quashing because you believe more in the fake kind.

I'll respect you, anyway, if you choose to stay in your fake kind...your choice. I will not feel your frustration as much, because I know you're making half of it for your own consumption. I know that God brings us through anything, and what we learn isn't just that God will bring us through--we learn why we were there in the first place.

LA

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RC, my WH wasn't the man that rocked. He wanted the shrink to say he was entitled to ditch and run. He wanted someone else to tell him what choice to make because he DIDN'T want to stay in a painful, unaccepting, disrespectful marriage.

He admits to punishing me for two months to hear his decision. He said, "It was a dead heat between you and OW. I just didn't know what the right thing to do was."

He is still the man who rocks...he had so many other choices. It was out of my control. All I could do was ask. Wait. Hear that he continued to tell OW how he loved her.

Wasn't easy...he wasn't remorseful, eager or enthusiastic. He took himself kicking and shrieking to each juncture and made his choices like lima beans or no dessert. He got through it slowly, saying he didn't want to love me again, hated the very idea. I cherished he said what he felt. I respected it was for him to feel and believe, not me. I could pray, eliminate my major LBs and wait. Those were my choices that I made.

This wasn't his first A, either. He had an EA early in our marriage that he ditched when I said the divorce word. It has taken over a year for him to see all the ways he attempted to punish me in our marriage. I was a fast learner, because the ways I tried to punish him fell out of my mouth very fast. Stopping myself from reaching for the punishing stick is within my control.

If you feel punishing, sure enough, you're in a control-based mode so that you will stop someone from hurting you.

All unreal, RC. We get hurt and we hurt others. We do it in a variety of ways, some we sneak past ourselves. We thirst for justice and attempt to quench it with rationalizations because hanging freely in the space where you're vulnerable from all sides feels way too scary.

Doesn't change the true fact we are vulnerable, hanging freely and will be hurt. How we deal with the pain is all we control. What pain we dish out is also. Pain is necessary for growth, suffering is optional.

I have full faith you are getting there. You're going to see a light in one thing and let the rest go for now. Later, go back, consider, and another little night light blinks. It's a process, not a contest.

LA

ROFL...you're so cute...I get it...kinda that, "Just when you thought it was over" in a horror movie and the gore continues, eh?

Heehee.

No wonder you're feeling overwhelmed...you have me on your thread!!

LA

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"My REBT is failing right now" See those two very important words that come after failing? You put those there. Then you left them off of all your other ones. "I can't shoot them all down right now ...inspire me to not try to control WS right now ...I can barely control myself right now. I just feel like I'm losing and there is no way to win right now .

What do you feel when you add those two words, bring yourself to full conscious awareness of those two words?

Hanging with you is a privilege, RC.

LA

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TJ - I always read LA's posts - they are so helpful.

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Good morning, RC,

I'm doing this backwards...I agree with you about contacting the CO and getting directly from him why he isn't putting it in the record, splitting them up or not. Ask what his thoughts and feelings are...he's been there. He may be treating WH like he was/wanted to be treated; or he might be being as helpful as possible because he was the BS and doesn't want to look as if it is revenge on a OM. Don't know. You can ask.

RC, I remember trying to control God, too. Had to make myself pray, "Thy will be done" over and over again. Slowly, I came to mean it, rely on him and stop attempting to control anyone but myself.

The only real certain safety in life that I have found is in trusting God to lead me to and through what it is I need to learn. The more I resist, try to control, fight, kick and wish really hard for it to be different, the less I learn and the more bruises I have at the end. Self-inflicted. The duration of whatever it is will be twice as long, more painful, confusing and frustrating...if I add in my control over others, my diehard wishfulness fantasy, and my statement that I don't want it this way.

God said all things come to pass...and pass away. Nothing is permanent. There is a constant right now and when we fully embrace it, stay present, we get clarity, relief, freedom and stop injuring ourselves.

Ever wonder why God wants us to be still and know that he is God? In motion, we are going into the future. He means even our minds to be still...not going into the past.

Present. Right now. Just now. Only now. Open. Listening. Trusting. That's when we're alive...right now.

Ever had your child cower when you approached? How would you feel if your child trembled with fear when you walked into the room, bright smile and loving arms open...how would you feel?

Well, you are the child and God is present and you are so fearful of pain, possible future pain, present pain, past pain, that you are cowering. I don't know if God really feels like we would, but I would be heartbroken. There is nothing to fear. Fear feels like the opposite of love to me. I know it isn't, but it can feel like it.

All your part is to decide if you want to ask for others' aid, not to figure out your H's response to others. That is between them. You ask and let it go. Know where you end. That you are safely held, loved and watched over...and that your WH is, also.

Windows of opportunity for what? To manipulate? Push? You see how exposure has had a big reaction in your WH. When they are out of contact (which you do pursue) and after withdrawal, you'll know if your WH will really recommit to the marriage or not. I believe that part of your Plan A isn't being pleasant, but safe for him to be him, like a clean slate and fresh start. That's why I'm pushing so hard for you to understand where you end and he begins.

Try to be desperately hungry for respect. Hungrier for it than control. One can replace the other in your life. It already has...you can change that, RC.

LA

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First to pleasant...then the rest...

Are you delighted, feel a little relief, that this time, you're learning a lot, just by figuring out there are other ways to live than the way you have been? I was pleasant from the release of getting one little step along the way. I was downright giddy at times. This pleasant was my choice to believe I was on a great path. My pleasant wasn't to get the response I wanted, but to reflect my response to myself and my changes.

My choice to not react but to act (albeit a lot slower than I reacted) was confining and freeing at the same time. Being pleasant to be pleasant, letting go the response, is not manipulation.

SF means acceptance to you...you feel accepted by your WH. When you change your belief to what it means to him...just using you, all that acceptance goes away, doesn't it? You're just a plug and play in your mind, therefore, your feelings result.

See how much respecting another person's truth is? And your own?

I'm in the middle of an audit, so am not ignoring...just taking a long time to post. Sorry. I'll check back tonight.

LA

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When you stop at your truth, you feel good.

When you take on what is not yours, which is your H's truth, because you are assuming/mindreading, you feel used.

You are interpreting WS's actions...which are all about him, not you. If you take the perspective, your choice, that he did this TO you, because of YOU, then you are overstepping your bounds and self-betraying.

He made his choices independently of you...no consideration in them for you. That hurts. You didn't cause him to do this to you. Not before, not now. His choice. Same with SF...he would choose to have SF for his reasons...my WH felt the same as I did...means acceptance and safe connection to us.

He didn't want SF with me...hated himself for wanting it, because in his mind, he blamed me for him wanting to be accepted by me. Hard to punish someone for not accepting you, but we do it all the time. He also feared using me after having used OW...he couldn't even get to that realization for nearly a year. He was a mess of reasons, true and untrue in himself and couldn't get a straight perspective, let alone, use me. He feared so much, felt so much, believed so many things that they were in conflict with one another.

To reduce down my WH's intent to use me was underselling him and me. Just don't go there. Don't assume or mindread. It kills marriages. It is a DJ.

His choice not to show affection, intimacy and care of you may have nothing to do with you. Internal struggles are internal, and self-absorbing. Pain is. You know this...you've felt this!!

It is your choice to say, "Affection means this to me and he's not doing that because he doesn't care and doesn't want to be intimate with me." You do that. Not him.

You have the power over what you believe and where you stop yourself. You stop at acceptance. Better yet, you are committed to O&H and say, "Honey? SF represents acceptance to me. I feel accepted by you when we make love. Want to?"

And prepare yourself to be accepted...and if he says, "No" to not feel rejected. He may want to reject you or not...may feel like self-rejecting...you won't know until he shares that with you. You stop at the offer and let the response be what it is. You define your results...you were O&H with him and yourself. You'll feel acceptance in the very action you choose to take. That's the key, RC.

Nobody makes you plug and play...please don't buy into that unrealistic belief. We either choose to see ourselves that way or not. Our choice. Our power. When you do a loving act, if you only depend on the response, how loving of you was it?

You got it...you perceiving/believing it causes your own turmoil. Not that you make this stuff up all the time...you have your part and he has his...again, your choice to believe his truth as yours (No...SF is just physical gratification and means nothing to me. Get away from me.) Ouch. Or feel pity for him...wow, he believe this now, he didn't before, he might not tomorrow. His truth, not mine. Seperate. Equal. Both valid. This may be O&H from him, or the version he tells himself...not for us to decide. Listen and repeat. "I hear you say that you believe sex for you is only physical and has no meaning beyond that. Good to know."

No turmoil, a little ouch because you wish he believed like you did right now...but no turmoil. His choice to choose his beliefs, too, right?

I won't go into the positive reaction; I know you know it well. I don't want you to choose your actions based on what he might or might not do or say. Just for the result of you taking it only.

No manipulation.

Nothing to control but yourself.

I struggled with this through nearly two decades. I felt abandoned, rejected, punished...because I DJ'd my H. He was feeling the exact same way, DJing me. I felt that way because I was punishing, abandoning and rejecting him at times. When I stopped and owned my actions, funny how I no longer felt that way. When I stopped, he stopped. Not at the same time. LOL.

I'm not posting to you to get you to do or say something, the way I want it said...I'm sharing what I lived, what I know, with a sister who appears to be in a similar circumstance, who knows what I felt, how I reacted, and I feel acceptance and understanding from you.

I remembered something from long ago today...you don't have to be perfect...you only have to be perfectly human.

LA

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Great to see you this early morning. I stayed up too late last night posting and am sluggish and slugging coffee right now. Auditors only just arrived, so I got an hour of work in and feel better, ready for the onslaught of questions.

Or no onslaught. I don't think they brought bagels today.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

Oh, to have my problems!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I know you were raised this way and that you are not choosing consciously to live by your emotions rather than your beliefs/principles. That was a self-loving statement you can be proud of. You know where it came from so you don't have sleuth that part. And you realize how unworkable life can get when you do operate from your emotions...I hear you figuring out how to stop a lifelong habit, automatic responses you have...no easy task, RC.

You're up for it, though. I believe you've wanted this lesson several times and that this time, you will get the full lesson because you are really open to it. I've learned the only way I could have gotten mine this time was because I didn't all those times before.

I love how you're listening to your thoughts...having them and hearing them. That's solid self-care, too. You've got a lot of responses in yourself that do look out for you...posting to others as you do, aids them and you. Please choose to believe you are making progress, gathering tools (yeah, I know you have to examine them first to use them...that's the fightin' part of you I admire) and that this is a process, not a single solution.

All is well with me (have java) and know that you know I'm here, even if I'm slow to reply. You tolerate me very well and I feel accepted. Thank you. My lengthy posts and inconsistent response times. I have the same for you, too...feel free to know that.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

(((())))

LA

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