In Harley's article titled " Four Rules to Guide Marital Recovery After an Affair" he suggests that H & W go on a 3 week vacation together during the first few weeks of withdrawal. I have a couple questions/problems about this.

The first is my WW tells me that she doesn't see how this will help as she is angry etc. I need some suggestions in pursuading her that this is a good step.

My second problem is that we can't afford to take off 3 weeks. Would weekend trips be worth while, or are long trips the only answer? Would it be helpful to include friends not associated with the OM (this might help to get my WW to go), or should it just be the both of us?

Ok I have a follow up question to the one posted above.

I know that I should spend 15 hours with my wife. She works a lot and has other things she does which I feel help her through her withdrawal period. These don't involve the OM or put her in contact with him (unless he or she go way out of their way - which I don't think will happen). This means that much of our important together time will be on the weekends.

I would like to take some mini-weekend long vacations with her (although I guess this gets back to my question above). My problem is she has already made plans with friends, and while I'm not against this (and think this is good as it keeps her away from OM and occupied), I want to do these vacations as I think it would be very helpful.

So, do I ask her to cancel her plans with her friends (potentially breaking POJA) and ask her to come on this mini-vacations? Or should she keep her plans (which doesn't break the POJA) and spend time with her before/after this? I'm leaning towards having her keep her plans, but was wondering what the more experienced people thought. Thx

I wish I could help, but I'm not terribly experienced since hubby and I have just begun the Marriage Builders home study courses. If I were to venture a guess, I'd say stick to Dr. Harley's instructions as much as possible. At the same time, if this is not possible, SOME quality time together, as in weekend day trips, is better than NO quality time together. Have you asked your wife if she'd be willing to ENTHUSIASTICALLY postpone her previously made plans to be able to spend time with you? I know from experience that if the hurt is new it will probably take quite a while before she is willing to accompany you, much less cancel pre-arranged plans. I was in shock for several months before the facts finally sunk in, and the LAST thing I wanted to do was spend time with hubby. Quite the contrary, I visited a female penpal in the UK for a week because I felt the need to get away from him and from life in general.

I've noticed that the majority of the posts that receive replies deal with sex, which is unfortunate as I too would like to hear from those whose marriages have improved and/or have been saved and are now wonderfully fulfilling as a result ofthe Marriage Builders series.

Hello,
My husband and I could not afford a 3 week vacation either. We did a number of small getaways. It was wonderful and let us connect again. Do you have kids? If so, we sent ours to grandma for a couple of weeks. That was a huge help to being alone, too.

There were some triggers we had to work through such as checking into the hotel the first time- wow- that one blew me away.

I think I need a little more info here.

Has your wife willingly gone no contact?


Is she committed to working on the marriage?

Have you suggested going away together?

Is there a way you can go with her when she is doing things with her friends?

Why is she doing more things with her friends than with you?

anngellica - yes the hurt is very new. She only agreed to NC yesterday. I will get into that in a second. She has agree to go away with me, but when I bring up a longer trip she gawks. Before she reveal the PA she was considering doing what you are doing by visiting a friend for a week. While she is the WW, what are your thoughts on this? From what I understand the key is to spend time with each other especially through the withdrawal stage. Is that a true assesment? My feeling is that her going away will make the reconciliation harder, although she states that she is too overwhelmed.... Thoughts?

moveforward - Let me first say that this is all very recent, well at least the D-Day was. The PA was a year ago, and the EA has been going on for over 2 years. Let me try to answer your questions. (I have put some more of my story in my posting entitled "Help - personal or couple issues first (long)")

- yes, but our definition of no contact seems to be different. Yesterday she called (yes I did suggest a letter instead) and told the OM the she had agreed to NC. Now today I tried to tell her that by NC is needed her to get rid of all things that reminded her of him -ex. emails, phone number in cell phone, email address in address book, etc. She got angry at me and told me that she had taken a huge step and that this was asking too much at one time. I told her that I really appreciated how hard it must have been for her to do what she did, but this was what I need and meant by NC. Full and absolute NC! Not sure how that went down. She didn't agree to it, but wasn't angry anymore either. She left for her IC, so hopefull it will come up and she will understand.

Oh dear that makes me think of another thing. She agreed to NC, but when I asked her today why she thought we needed NC she replied she didn't really and ask me to explain why. I told her that without it there was no way we could move forward and really work on our marriage. With the OM in the picture, she would always be tempted to depend on him for ENs and that I would never recover from the pain she had caused. She understood my recovery, but I think she had a hard time not being able to keep OM as a 'friend'. Makes me wonder if she is really gone to NC. Thoughts?

She tells me she is committed and has taken some steps, like agreeing to NC. This is new so I don't have many examples of it. But I believe she is (maybe this is me just being to optimistic)



I have suggested this. I first brought up the fact that Harley suggested a 3 week vacation and she gawked. First of all we probably couldn't afford it, but she objected more I think because she is angry and going through withdrawal and she can't imagine being alone with me for so long. I did then suggest shorter vacations and she was more enthusiastic about it.


Many of her friends are her own and not mine. She also usually sees one friend at a time. For example this weekend she is meeting a friend for coffee. I don't want to intrude aand push her away toward the OM as she tells me that one of her needs is to feel less controlled (not on Harley's EN questionaire though). I must say though she did offer to meet me afterwards and go do something together. That is a positive sign I think. What do you think?


She is not really doing more with her friends than me, its just that we only actually have a larger blocks of time free on the weekends. But with that said, I must admit that I was !@#@ and became over-involved with my graduate studies, which led her to hang out less with me and more with her friends...and help foster the A.

Sorry for the long response. I hope it helps clarify some points. If its unclear its probably because I am still unclear on it all and overwhelmed. Thanks for your advice.

Went for a nice long walk this morning (over 1 hour). We talked about work related things and I tried to be supportive and meeting her need for admiration from me. I think it went well. She seemed to really appreciate my efforts and I could see that I was making some headway in meeting that need. Thank you all for your support. One moment at a time.

Any more thoughts on my previous questions?

Ok so today I really messed up my first attempt at a date. Oh man did I blow it. I ended up doing the opposite of what I aimed to do. Big ol' LB!!! I still can't believe it. Problem is that it was not intentional at all and just an 'innocent mistake'. Still unforgiveable though. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

Sooo...let me tell the story, hopefully the short and quick version. So my WW had a lunch date with a friend, and so I mentioned that it might be nice for us to meet up afterwards to go to an art exhibit WW is wanting to see. I thought this would be a great time to spend time with her doing something fun and enjoyable. Just before my WW leaves we have a conversation to iron out the details. She tells me that she is not sure how long the lunch will take so she is hesitant to make plans with me. She doesn't want to feel rushed or pressured to end her lunch early. So wanting to have this 'date', I say not problem, I will be down there reading my book, so when ever you're done call me.

So I drop off my wife at the metro. I go shopping and when I'm at the store I think to myself what a great idea it would be to take along a nice romatic dinner for after the exhibit. So I buy some stuff and come home and make it. Well it hits an 1.5 hours after WW is supposed to have started lunch, so I starting to wondering if I sould check in. Then I remember that she doesn't want to feel rushed, so I don't look at my cell phone and finish up cooking. Well it hits 2.25 hours and I'm starting to worry a little, so this time I pick up my phone. I notice that I have 2 missed calls. Its my WW. She is at the place where we were supposed to meet, wondering why I'm answering my phone and wondering where I am. My heart sinks. I realize that I had turned off my ringer for my IC (something I never do as I always turn off my phone for just this reason) and had forgotten to turn it back on. OMG!!! I couldn't believe it.

Well straight away I call my WW. She is furious. She tells me she has been waiting for a while (I find out that she left the restaurant after 1.40 hours). She had walked in the rain with her little umbrella to the gallery, getting soaked in the process. She was now waiting for me. It told her how sorry I was and that my cell phone ringer was off. I also tell her that I had prepared a romantic dinner for us, and ask if she still wants me to bring it. She says no and I tell her I am on my way. So off I fly, driving like a mad man. Find parking (not an easy thing). (total time after call 20 mins) As I am about to run to the gallery she calls and tells me just to pick her up. So I do. She is still fuming. I have not seen her so angry in a long time. She demands to know where I was. I tell her again what I was doing. She says that I had promised that I would be down near the gallery reading ready to meet her. I tell her how sorry I was. She goes on to say that I was not thinking of her at all. I respond that that was all I was doing. Not rushing her and making a nice romantic dinner.

So to cut this drama short. We get home. Without a word to me she goes and takes a shower, then a bath. Finally when she comes out and changes, she comes over and with a serious tone tells me that she doesn't want me to make her things or dinner, she just 'me to do what I told her I would and be where I told her I would.'

This is killing me as I think that she thinks that I am again not thinking of her. That is all that I was doing. I know that I was stupid and should have called her (although that's a tough one as she did say she didn't want pressure.) I know some of the anger is probably due to fog, but still my actions ended up doing the opposite of what I wanted.

Wow ok so that was not a short post. Sorry. I hope I do better on my mini-vacation I'm trying to plan for her B-day weekend a couple weeks off.

If you do a road trip...get His Needs/Her Needs on CD. IMO, the book is much more productive when listened to together and you can pause and discuss. I suggest you let her do the pausing.

Mr. Wondering

Well let me give you all an update. Last night was the first night that I have had to spend on the couch. After my WW got home from going out to give our sister-in-law some cheesecake I baked for the WW for the 'date', which took WW over 2 hours to do....she returned still furious at me. I tried to calmly talk to her about what had happened, but my emotions got the best of me at points in out conversation. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> I appologized at one point for getting aggrevated with her (ahhhh I promised no more LB's!!!). Well she said that she needed a break from 'us' and wanted to go to her brother's for the night. I pursuaded her to stay by promising her I would spend the night on the couch and give her her space.

Should I have let her go and spend time apart? She says she wants to do this as she is overwhelmed with all her emotions and thoughts and just needs some space to get perspective. What are your thoughts on this? Should I try to pursuade her to stay at home or would it be better for me allow her to stay at her brother's? Or should I go somewhere and let her stay in our house?


Well last night I woke up crying and my WW came out to comfort me and tell me that she was sorry and that she said a lot in anger. She said that I could come to bed if I wanted. I replied that while I wanted to come to bed, I respected her need for space. I would come if she wanted me to. The reply to this was silence....so I stayed on the couch. Early this morning she came back and took me by the hand and led me back to bed. Where we snuggled and fell alseep. There is just so much hurt and thoughts to deal with.

Do those of you who have been through this before think that I handled last night the right way? Did I make mistakes? Would there have been a better way to handle it?

Thanks for all the advice and prayers.

Update - I wanted to share a positive with other out there going through tough times. There are up times in this experience. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Yesterday was a great day. I was completely surprised considering Saturday which was definately a down day (see above post). Yesterday my wife was able to spend some time with a friend and take yoga, but just as importantly we were able to spend some time together. We took a nice long walk, talking about many different things. I made an effort not to bring up any relationship questions and this seemed to help put WW at ease. We then had dinner, watch some of the BIG GAME. She sacrificed and let me watch some and then I sacrificed and turned it off for a movie. We were able to hold snuggle a little on the couch, and I took what I felt was a big step for me considering just a week ago I was revulted by it...I gave her a much needed back massage like I used to. I could tell she really enjoyed this. She even commented on it this morning before going to work.

Tonight will be hard, as we are going to MC and I know that Saturday is going to come up. Whenever this happens it always just stirs things up and doesn't seem to resolve them. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" /> Is this what should be happening in MC?

On a side note I finally received Harley's 'Surviving an Affair". I surprising/scary how much I can relate to. I encourage all other "newbies" out there to get a copy pronto.

I have a quick question for all of you.

This weekend is going to be our first mini-vacation away from where we live (3 hours away). I think in all my reading on MB that this should be a time of just being together. i.e Should I not bring up our relationship and the A at all during this time?

Thanks

HELP !!! Please share your thoughts. Mimi-vacation is rapidly approaching.....

Related to my last question, would it be appropriate for me to be reading Harley's SAA during this get-away?

bump

I read SAA to my husband while he drove. His A was over and he was actively working on the relationship.

Take the book maybe and just see how it goes. You may want to just not talk about the A at all and just focus on one another.

Maybe if you are going to be gone for say over night, ask if you can set aside 2 hours to talk about the A, and then you will not mention it again for the rest of the time away.

Wanted to give everyone here an update on my first weekend get-away.

We followed advice here and collectively decided to not discuss or bring up relationship issues for those couple of days. This was great advice as I found that we started to enjoy each other again before all this began. It was nice to know that we could feel like that again and that not all was lost. Don't get me wrong there were still the feelings there, but I knew that for a time they could/should be placed in the background. My FWW actually said she enjoyed spending time with me and wished we didn't have to return home. I guess she felt the way I did and enjoyed focusing on one another.

We were not able to get away this weekend, which I think would have been a helpful think. Will try to do more stuff together, but this is hard as FWW is still in the 'fog' at times.

Just wanted to share this, in case there are others out there in a similar situation of being unable to go on a longer vacation.