Well, it is believable, ac2ally.

We had a good talk this am.

W has had "a few" contacts with Rat Meat since September, when he told her he was remarried.

She believes she'll never have another "relationship" with him, but she doesn't want 2 lose his friendship.

I told her that he must go, or I want a DV.

We talked for a 2ple hours, but that was the gist of the convo.

She cried alone for a while, but she's off 2 the grocery store now. I'm working on the upstairs bathroom, except for this post.

I'm doing okay.

But I don't have any hope left.

-ol' 2long <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

((((hug))))

I am so sorry, I kmow what a disappointment this is for you.

Having contact would be unacceptable for me too.

Hopefully, she will choose the marriage over whatever friendship she can have with RM. Then..then maybe real recovery can happen.

Did you have to find out yourself or was she forthcoming with the info herself?

2L,

I am so sorry to hear this. She just does not understand does she? Well, if he is more important to her that is what it is. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> It is really sad but perhaps she will only understand when you are gone, which is really a shame. I just wish I could offer you something of use to make this situation better.

Hang in there 2L,

JL

Are you truly prepared to back it up? You've been at this a long, long time. Probably 2 long.

If your wife thinks you're just posturing again, you'll continue your standoff.

Low

I know that you told her that she forfeited the friendship option when she chose to have the affair...


2long, I am sorry to "hear" this, I really, really am...Hugs to you...



Mrs. Wondering

2Long, I hope you'll pardon my intrusion on your thread, but I just wanted to give you a little hug {{{{{2Long}}}}} based in my own experience of what continued contact feels like to the BS, especially after multiple "I won't do it agains."

If it helps, my wife used to say that she thought of her OM as a "friend," but that nothing would ever happen beyond that. To me, ANY contact is anathema, totally unacceptable, and something I will not "accept." To me, he CANNOT be a "friend," that line was irrecoverably crossed when they chose to willingly attack my marriage. After this last contact a couple of weeks ago, we had a "final" talk where I told her "him or me, but no more 'chances,' no more 'forgiving.'" I asked her if she still thought of him as a friend, and THIS TIME, for the first time in almost 4 years she said, "No."

2Long, there IS hope, but a lot will depend upon you, your ability to "keep trying," and your assessment of her contact as being "dumb" or a way to continue the affair. If it's willful and a not based in her weakeness but in an active attempt to start up, or continue, the affair, then it's time for either a total separation or a divorce.

In my very humble opinion, there is NO room in ANY marriage for anyone other than husband, wife, and God. Since we differ on the God issue, the rest still holds as true as gravity. Marriage IS between ONLY one Man and one Woman, period, end of discussion of the sanctity of marriage.

God bless and strengthen you at this time. I wish I could offer more, but I know the limits of human strength and willpower in the face of such emotional devastation.

I'm sorry...you deserve better..much better

{{2long}} I do hope you take FH's post to heart. IMHO he has done a great job with his FWW. I am so sorry you really have had a long, long walk on this rocky road.

2,

I'm very sorry to hear this. It probably should not be a surprise. She's lived this double life for so long that it's deeply ingrained in her.

You are a good man, 2. If you choose to live your life alone, you will make a good life of it. But I suspect that the ladies will be on you like a dog on a knockworst. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> um... I mean ... Like a flower on a bee... or well anyway, you won't have to be alone if you don't want to. I know you really don't envision a new lady in your life - but you are a worthy guy - and you have choices downstream.

-AD

I'm sorry too 2long, and I am so surprised. Wish I had something really wonderful to say, but I think I'll just post some lyrics for ya.

""I'm becoming less defined, as days go by
Fading away, well you might say I'm losing focus
Kind of drifting into the abstract in terms of how I see myself
Sometimes, I think I can see right through myself...Less concerned, about fitting into the world
Your world that is, cause it doesn't really matter anymore
None of this sh... really matters anymore
Yes, I am alone, but then again I always was
As far back as I can tell, I think maybe it's because
Because you were never really real to begin with
I just made you up to hurt myself

There is no you, there is only me
There is no you, there is only me
There is no f'ing you, there is only me
There is no f'ingg you, there is only me"

NIN

2long - I think FH's description is pertinent and touches a bit on my thoughts before I read all these responses.

What does she consider a "friend"? Is it the same definition most of us use, or as maybe with FH's W and your W, "friend" represents a fanciful memory of a yearning non-personified? In other words, is it the idea rather than a specific person?

That said, I know it's futile to try to get inside the head of a WS not fully detached from the fantasy.

Part of me is tempted to suggest that this potentially simply latent yearning is harmless, but I know it represents the whole episode to you and as such, as with FH, it cannot be harmless. Only you can make that decision.

If you draw the line in the sand, you must follow through with it for your own peace of mind.

WAT

Hi 2long -

No advice, just an opinion, but contact would be unacceptable in my book, also. They have already proved they can't be "just friends." Continued contact, even few and far between, is cake-eating, IMVHO. I am so sorry about your disappointment.

God bless,
Rose

Wow, I have read a little of your story and most recently your attempts at further recovery.

These LTA's really are a different animal, like I've read on other threads. Too painful for words. I'm sorry you have to go through this again.

I never thought I would ever give up hope for 2long and Mrs. 2long, but I really think now is the time to draw the line. Not for saving the marriage alone, but for your sanity as well 2long.

Even you can only take so much, and I agree that the line should be drawn...for you, and so she knows exactly what the rules will be from now on.

And as WAT said, the rules will be cut in stone...it is the only way at this point.

Her desire to keep RM as a friend has been a big part part of the reason she just can't fully withdraw and be on board with real recovery toward a much better or great marriage.

The potential is.. so...there, but she is just still so blind to it because of her stubborn, refusal to release her fantasy that is or was her relationship with RM.

2long, I'm sorry. Thought recovery was slowly moving along. I understand what this can do to a person.

2long, I'm sorry to hear this too. She really doesn't get it. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> My H would never have had the patience you have.

You need to be able to follow through this time.

Well, folks.

thanks for the kind thoughts and suggestions.

You guys all know me so well. Trix, yeah, she has a choice 2 make. I gave the ultimatum and she said she'd think about it.

The past few months have been so strange. Some decent SF, 2ple of times initiated by her. But now she says we should probably hold off for a "while". And her old accusations that that was all our M was based on came back 2day. I know it's bullfeathers, but I also know what it indicates.

She'd been feeling generally closer as well, but when I told her ILY in December (or whenever that was), all I got was "Thank you". At least it wasn't like Han Solo's "I know." But that was another clue things weren't moving along, reallly.

She's been buying me neat gifts, and made me a cool spacey quilt to use at my telescopes when it's cold. Heck, I've gotten more cool gifts since Christmas than I got on Christmas. But even that made me wonder. (still, I got her a few gifts as well, after all, I'm not heartless!, and some of the things are really cool. But they are things, after all).

JL: No, she doesn't understand. That's pretty obvious. It did seem like she "got it" more during this convo than any prior, but I'm not holding out any hope that it'll take. Not again.

Low: Yes. I'm ready 2 back this up. I'm going 2 give her some "time" 2 think about this, just because I feel it's the right thing 2 do (and she said she would), but the ball won't be dropped again.

Mrs W: Yes, I did tell her that (for the billionth time, of course). I told her that more than once this time, though. And she repeated after me a 2ple times, almost as if she was trying 2 "get this straight". We'll see. No expectations, though. No hope either.

FH: You said a 2ple of things that I thought were rather interesting, and since your sitch right now is so similar 2 mine, I thought I'd comment on them some more here and ask you what you're doing now.

"After this last contact a couple of weeks ago, we had a "final" talk where I told her "him or me, but no more 'chances,' no more 'forgiving.'" I asked her if she still thought of him as a friend, and THIS TIME, for the first time in almost 4 years she said, "No.""

Any clue why the change? Was it a gradual realization on her part, or did it happen suddenly? You see, my W sounds like she's hanging on (hopelessly, since he's M'd again and doesn't seem 2 contact her himself, but of course I no longer believe what I'm being told - so this is in part interpolation by me).

"2Long, there IS hope, but a lot will depend upon you, your ability to "keep trying," and your assessment of her contact as being "dumb" or a way to continue the affair."

Well, I am willing 2 keep trying, so long as there's any reason 2 do so. Also, I would assess her contact as very, very "dumb" as you put it. Definitely not a way 2 continue the A. It's funny, really. The one session she had with my IC in March of 2002, where he asked her if she could promise 2 be physically faithful 2 me, and she said she could (because he didn't think she would say yes if he'd asked her 2 be emotionally faithful 2 me) - well, that seems 2 have stuck. But of course, she'd like 2 believe that it was the physical A that bothers me most, even though I've told her many times that it was the deception and the emotional attachment. I think this was the fog socking back in at this particular time.

AD: Are you suggesting that I look like knockwurst? ;o)

Weaver: Love the lyrics. I'm going 2 look that one up!

WAT: "Part of me is tempted to suggest that this potentially simply latent yearning is harmless, but I know it represents the whole episode to you and as such, as with FH, it cannot be harmless. Only you can make that decision."

Well, it's this specific person (though the fool is really nothing but a fantasy, he's not an ac2al life form). They share the same very focused research interest (though I've done internet litera2re searches, and the 2it hasn't published any of his $h!+). He meets her EN for convo and admiration. ENs are extremely hyper-overrated, IMHBVPOPOV (that stands for: In My Humble But Very Pi$$ed Off Point Of View). I told her that I don't believe there was anything whatsoever I could possibly have done once she started the A. And there's nothing I can do now.

Trix: There was an ad on the Lobotomy Box last night. For a s2pid car, I think. Started with some gal sitting behind the wheel, with some profound "arty" statement like "You are unique", which I quickly followed with "just like everybody else."

My W insisted again that she's unique, her si2ation is unique, and that we're intelligent people and so we don't need or can't get anything useful out of further counseling.

Well, besides the usual response (that her A is far less "original" and special than she imagines), I did point out that I'm not interested in ICing 2 "win her back" (hopeless waste of time), or even MCing with a goof like the only one we worked with 4 years ago.

I'd be happy 2 pay for coaching with the Harleys, though. But only if she'll participate. I'll make the offer soon, but I don't expect anything, nor do I have any real hope.

It's so strange. I can trust her with our finances (she handles the bill-paying, because when I tried 2 "help" with it when she was out of town, we ended up paying a few 2wice). But I can't trust her with my heart. I don't believe anything she says about relationships, and I don't see enough 2 decide whether I believe much of what I see.

-ol' 2long

Don't throw in the towel yet, 2long.

In an ideal world every repentant WS would follow the MB 'rules' to a T and they would have no contact ever again with the OP.

However, in the REAL world, we realize that this helpful MB is only giving suggestions and that our human feelings are very powerful.

I am writing this as a lady that has HAD an email relationship with a man from my hometown for 1 1/2 years.(he moved away many years ago and lives in another state.) Because of circumstances beyond my control (not my choice) we are no longer able to communicate (I think God loved me so much that he stopped this on line affair that I was
too weak to stop myself.) I am THANKFUL for this.

I have been emailing with several MB ladies that have had similar experiences and the desire to just know about the OM and his life (even though they do not ever intend to contact him) is in the back of their minds.(In order to cope with their remorse, they have this inner need and hope that they really were SPECIAL and that OP misses them; not any desire whatsoever to re-kindle the romance) These feelings, although wrong, are their and my feelings.

When a spouse (male or female) has an EA or a PA, they more than likely care very much about the OP or it wouldn't have happened in the first place.

For your wife to have a conversation with the OM, even though WRONG, is not the end of the world and does NOT have to be the end of your marriage. (Unless that is what you and her want.)

Thankfully the OM has found a new lady to love and marry and I am sure he no longer wants to have an affair with your wife. That chapter in their lives is OVER.

I am SURE your wife loves you deeply, 2long.....But she is human, she cared for this other fellow, and it isn't all that much different than an x spouse having
a conversation with a former spouse. JMHO.

Hopefully she can overcome this addiction to know about his life and if she can; both of you can keep moving on with a great marriage until death do you part. (If that is what you both want.)

This note is written with all sincerity and caring for you and your situation.

Would it be helpful for your wife to post here at this
Marriage Builder site?

P.S. Edited to say this has been going on such a long time.
I didn't know this when I posted the above note.
I see you came to MB in 2002.