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Here's the link to my original post about everything. http://www.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/sho...&PHPSESSID=My husband is also involved in some type of emotional affair or physical affair (I am not sure how in-depth it is) with another woman. We've been separated since 1/16, had our last counseling session together last Thursday & after he decided that the counselor cannot help him at all we had a 2 hour talk about everything again and he is definitely planning on filing for the divorce. He basically wanted to know what I want as far as the house goes, etc...and he was just crying the whole time, saying that this is NEVER what he wanted. He never intended on "Falling out of love" with me, it just happened. I know he is still in contact with this OW, but I really don't know much else. He just keeps saying that this OW has nothing to do with this, that he was losing his feelings for me before he started talking to her. Also wanted to mention that as of today, I called him and told him there will be no further contact with me, unless its regarding the house, financials or the kids. No more calling me and going over everythign again and hearing him ask me why, why did it have to get to this? That this is never what he wanted and that he wishes he could change the way he feels. I told him that I want to treat this as a business transaction from here on out. He tells me he needs to do what he needs to do...well, I need to do what I need to do. Am I wrong?? What do I do now that we're separated and he is planning to file for the divorce? I feel that he is so far gone now, how do I get him back? Should I have any hope? I am continuing counseling for my own benefit. Opinions please, I'd appreciate it. I feel SO lost.
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LMH-
According to your post, your WH is in an EA and maybe a PA.
First and foremost: you make take some of the blame for the way the M was preA, but you cannot and should not take any blame for the A. That was his selfish choice. Period. Please from this point on remember that, his choice not yours.
Now your choices are still there:
You can read here in MB on LB and DJ's, EN, etc. Read them and refill as best you can his Love Bank if possible. Do not Love Bust or make Disrespectful Judgements.
Buy or borrow His needs/Her needs, Surviving the Affair, etc from the Harleys
Read on Plan A and Plan B
Own up to what your part was in the M, and do not take blame for his part.
Continue with IC and work on you
Hug yourself and stop being a doormat
Have you exposed the A to anyone? Have you done the detective work to find out if the PA or EA are for sure?
Does he know you know about the EA/PA?
You seem to have jumped into plan B without a plan A first with NC with him.
Did you do a complete Plan A first?
Did you read up on plan A and give it your all?
There are many wonderful people here who will help you, I am a beginner and still learning quite a lot. Stick around, read, learn, and begin to heal yourself.
PS Your WH sounds pretty deep in the fog...there is a post on here about the foggy stuff, read up on that too
((((((((((((((LMH)))))))))))))))))
D-day 5-18-05
35 BS (me)
52 WH
17 DS
15 DD
14 DDs twins
Currently in R.
"God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to know the difference" The Serenity Prayer
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You can read here in MB on LB and DJ's, EN, etc. Read them and refill as best you can his Love Bank if possible. Do not Love Bust or make Disrespectful Judgements.
Buy or borrow His needs/Her needs, Surviving the Affair, etc from the Harleys
Read on Plan A and Plan B
Own up to what your part was in the M, and do not take blame for his part.
Continue with IC and work on you
Hug yourself and stop being a doormat
Have you exposed the A to anyone?
**All my family/friends know. I am pretty sure his brother knows, but I am not 100%. I also think his business partners know. I don't know who else knows on his side, as far as friends are concerned. He still hasn't called his mom b/c he is embarrassed. They don't have a very good relationship at all.
Have you done the detective work to find out if the PA or EA are for sure?
**I know it is for certain. He admitted to it originally being an EA. What it is now, I don't know.
Does he know you know about the EA/PA?
**Yes. He admitted.
You seem to have jumped into plan B without a plan A first with NC with him. **He wouldn't allow me to meet any emotional needs while I tried. He has totally shut me out as far as that goes.
Did you do a complete Plan A first? Gave it my best. And he refused to stop contact with OW.
Did you read up on plan A and give it your all?
There are many wonderful people here who will help you, I am a beginner and still learning quite a lot. Stick around, read, learn, and begin to heal yourself.
PS Your WH sounds pretty deep in the fog...there is a post on here about the foggy stuff, read up on that too
((((((((((((((LMH))))))))))))))))) Thanks so much - I answered your questions above. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
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So if you tried plan a and now are on plan b, are you willing to accept the consequences of that? Can you keep NC going, stick to it 100%, stay strong?
D-day 5-18-05
35 BS (me)
52 WH
17 DS
15 DD
14 DDs twins
Currently in R.
"God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to know the difference" The Serenity Prayer
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I've established NC as of today, allowing him to talk to me only if it's regarding financials, the house, the kids. I'm sticking to it. I won't be calling him for anything unless it's one of the above reasons I stated.
What really stinks is it's his birthday Monday. I originally invited him for dinner so the kids could give their present to him. But when I established NC today, I told him that the kids would just give him his present tomorrow morning when he comes to take our son. Meaning, no dinner on Monday eve.
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Hon, Plan B is not going to help you, but hurt your chances, if you haven't done a good Plan A. If you go to Plan B now, you are just throwing him into the arms of the OW. If he was disgusted with your marriage when you went into Plan B, he will just be relieved to be rid of you. Plan A is designed to turn that around and faciliatate a more effective Plan B.
Have you considered using MB principles and letting us coach you through this?
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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I think the question s/b:
1. Do you realize you are using 'some' plan B tactics?
a. if so, why?
b. What r u trying to accomplish?
2. Do you understand plan A and have you done a good one?
3. Have you identified your personal boundaries?
Expect him to go to the OW and babble as such. It may help to know that the more you keep him crying, the better the chances you have of him coming back. Now don't go beating him up but if you don't meet his WS guilt EN, that's good.
However plan B s/b executed after you have done a good plan A which removes you from being blamed for his A.
He didn't want it t/b this way but it is? It's NOT about the OW? That's babble.
Learn to ID babble and learn how to respond. Here we call that type of response, reverse babble. It may help to know how t/d it.
L.
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hey wait -you're sure his business partners know about the A? Them knowing about the A, and them knowing that YOU know about the A are way different. IMO, it's the WS getting busted that helps to make the A look so disgusting.
Make sure they know that YOU know!
The ones who can't stand Dr. Phil are the ones who are up to no good... ("oh, he doesn't know what he's talking about...blah, blah, blah")
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I think the question s/b: 1. Do you realize you are using 'some' plan B tactics? a. if so, why? ***Totally no way to do the full Plan b. It just isn't possible. I don't have anyone else who can hand off the kids to him, etc...and he still has 90% of his crap still in the house. We have way too much to do, with selling the house and all - there are so many things left "undone" in our brand new home that we will be selling. Things he is responsible for. There really is no way that we can be in a sitch that enables us to NOT communicate at all. b. What r u trying to accomplish? **Trying to gain some control here. Making him think about "not being able to call me whenever he wants" usually one wants to do things they are told they cannot do - he normally calls "just to see how I am doing" and then sits there on the phone, in silence, huffing and puffing and keeps telling me how much he "hates his F---ing life!" "and that this is NOT what he ever wanted" "I don;t want to hurt you" and then back to all the blaming me again. I am getting so exhausted. 2. Do you understand plan A and have you done a good one? **Yes, I tried but he wasn't "hearing" me & he also refused NC with the OW. He did attempt it for one day and by the next night he was "texting" her and all freaking out about it. 3. Have you identified your personal boundaries? **Not sure what you mean... Expect him to go to the OW and babble as such. It may help to know that the more you keep him crying, the better the chances you have of him coming back. Now don't go beating him up but if you don't meet his WS guilt EN, that's good. **NOT SURE I UNDERSTAND WHAT YOU MEAN BY THIS? what is WS guilt EN? I am trying so hard not to beat him up, but he came over here and washed clothes last week and I found one of "her" hairs in my dryer. How do you handle sitchs like that?? Do I just ignore things like that? I don't have to keep him crying, he just KEEPS crying himself. He keeps saying he is a failure, a loser, never been good enough, when is someone going to love him for "him"?, he is trying to find happiness, bottom line is he is not happy, yada yada yada....these are things I hear all the time but hopefully won't be anymore. However plan B s/b executed after you have done a good plan A which removes you from being blamed for his A. **He agrees that I am not to blame for the A. He admits that he made the choice to pursue it, but that our marriage problems created the environment for him to want to talk with her and so it began from there... He didn't want it t/b this way but it is? It's NOT about the OW? That's babble. **And how do I respond to that because he says it all the time. And whenever I drive away from us having a "talk" he starts "Ttexting" me right away with things like "I am sorry, I did not want this" "You are a great person" And even just 2 weeks ago he texted me an "I love you" - haven't had one since then and I asked him why he did that and he said "because I think you think I hate you and I don't" Learn to ID babble and learn how to respond. Here we call that type of response, reverse babble. It may help to know how t/d it. **FEEL FREE TO COACH ME!! THANKS!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> One more thing...he is coming early in the morn tomorrow to pick up our son for 1/2 the day - what is the best way for me to act given the boundaries I set earlier today regarding contact, etc...??? I don't want to be cold, but I don't want to be too nice either. I just want to do what is right. Any tips would be appreciated. Thank you all so much! All I want is my husband, my family and our future back. L.
Last edited by Luv_My_Husband; 02/04/06 10:05 PM.
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Wow, LMH--I just gotta say the way he is talking to you--the how he is miserable, etc...all of it--is like what n=my WH still says to me.
And I never went pal B because we have 3 small kiddos, I was preggo up until 3 weeks ago with one of them, and there is no go between person--however--you can still do a great plan A and NOT HAVE TO PUT UP WITH HIS COnVERSATIONS!!!
It took many a poster to tell me that I don;t have to listen to it--but that doesn;t mean to not listen to it you have to totally block him out in a full plan B.
When he is emotionally draining you--tell him. Tell him you can't talk. Tell him you're busy. Tell him you're not gonna listen to the him balming you for all his problems anymore. That's part of the not being a doormat of plan A--respectable boundaries--and yes, this would be a boundary.
I'm gonna go read your complete story now.
BW-me, 29
XH, 29
3 sons-now 6,4,2
Divorce final--Sept. 27, 2006.
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Ugh, he has called me three times this morning - he's running late to pick up our son because he is on the side of the road puking. He has a stomach ulcer, so I think it's acting up on him. He literally called me in the middle of his puking to say he was sorry that he was running so late and how awful he feels and his stomach is feeling. I offered to go pick him up and asked if there was anything I could do. He said no, just tell our son he's sorry he is late.
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Luv, I had posted to you above and asked if you had considered using Marriage Builders principles? It is really a very successful program. Do you have any interest in it?
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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Thought I was following them. No? What are your suggestions at this point...do you get where we are at? If so, how do I go back now? Thanks in advance. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
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Well, the first step is to follow Plan A. I am not sure what Plan you are in, because it is not Plan B, but more like giving him the cold shoulder. Plan B is useless unless it is a) done after Plan A and b) done properly.
Doing a good, solid Plan A is essential or the WS is just relieved to be rid of you. Seperation is a risky business as it is, without Plan A, it is extremely risky because the WS has nothing to miss.
For example, Plan B is not giving your spouse the cold shoulder and insisting you only talk about finances and the kids, but is begun with a LOVE LETTER which outlines a path back to the marriage. After a good solid Plan A. Plan B is total darkness, with a few exceptions, because contact prevents withdrawal and defeats the purpose.
Do you have any of the Harley books, such as Surviving an Affair? Have you read about Plan A? There is a good article about Plan A in my signature link.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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No, I don't have that book. I guess I will have to get it. I feel that I did a good plan A and he was not willing to stop talking with OW. I just don't know how I can go backwards now and try to start Plan A over again, with what I said yesterday and the fact that I am going to counseling and he knows what my intentions were and that I was willing to do everything possible to meet his emotional needs and better myself through the counseling. Also, I am NOT giving him the cold shoulder at all - in fact, the first time he called this morning (and each time thereafter) I was very pleasant with him.
Last edited by Luv_My_Husband; 02/05/06 09:59 AM.
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What was your Plan A and how long was it?
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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VERY briefly, I was communicating with him trying not to use love busters, etc...and attempting to meet his emotional needs but he wouldn't allow me. I've been telling him since this all started in Dec. that I am going to counseling to better myself, etc...but he just kept saying to do it for me, not for him. Then I told him that in order for us to work on anything, he would have to stop contact with OW. It lasted one day and he was right back at it. I have been trying to be very considerate with him. I then kept trying to meet his emotional needs, we separated on 1/16 and I just don't know what to do now. Our last counseling session together was last Thurs and he said she can't help him and he wants to start filing for the D.
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Luv, I would suggest going back to Plan A for a longer period and doing more to bust up the affair. The more damage you can inflict on the affair, the faster it's demise and the greater the odds that he comes back into the marriage. That will also give you more time to demonstrate your changes to him, rather than just telling him you are going to change.
Then when you have done some more exposure and demonstrated your changes to him, you can go into Plan B. Plan B is not about just cutting them off, lest they see it as punishment, it is begun in a loving manner with a love letter which outlines a clear path back.
It is a very strategic plan that gives your marriage the best odds.
Additionally, if you are going to spend money on counseling, might I suggest you go to the pro? Steve Harley can assess your situation and give you a good plan. He is worth every penny and won't waste a minute of your time. He GIVES advice rather than taking your money to listen to you yak about your feelings for endless hours.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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[
**All my family/friends know. I am pretty sure his brother knows, but I am not 100%. I also think his business partners know. I don't know who else knows on his side, as far as friends are concerned. He still hasn't called his mom b/c he is embarrassed. They don't have a very good relationship at all. You have some great exposure opportunities here that should be exploited before you even consider Plan B. For example, you have his business partners, his mother, his brother, and the OW's family. Any other key people in his life should be informed about the affair. WHO IS this OW? Is she married? Where does she work?
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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This is Plan A written by Pepperband:
The Carrot and the Stick of Plan A
The carrot of Plan A
Meeting your wandering spouse's emotional needs.
Making "home" a warm and inviting place to be.
Placing emphasis on what has worked in the marriage.
Showing consistent self improvement in areas where previously lacking.
Stop lovebusting behaviors.
Communicating with a calm reassuring voice and relaxed body language, even in the center of a verbal storm created by the infidel.
Becoming the person any reasonable spouse would want to come home to.
Remaining open to the possibility of recovery.
Offering forgiveness and understanding.
The stick of Plan A
Exposing adultery where it matters most. Exposure that takes the form of a swift and sudden unexpected tsunami of truth.
Not appologizing for exposure or speaking the truth in a kind yet direct way.
Directly communicating the hurt and devastation that the affair has caused.
Not accepting blame for the infidel's choice to become adulterous.
Let the consequences of adultery and infidelity fall freely upon the heads of the adulterous.
Establishing boundaries that disallow the affair to effect children of the marriage, financal security of the marriage, and otherwise ruin innocent bystanders.
Standing up to infidelity as a beast that must be slayed for the good of the family.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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