** this is a cross post. I am doing this based on advice from a reply to my original post. I really do not think that this belongs here as I do not think that any infidelity was involved. Thanks for your patience and understanding**

I have just lost my best friend. This wonderful person also happened to be my wife of 17 years .

I will apologize upfront for being very longwinded but I have no one else to talk to and I have to get this off my chest somehow. We moved to a new town for my new job a little over a year ago. Two weeks into my new job, my wife almost died. I spent two days in and out of Intensive care unit devastated. Eventually she got out and was sick for well over six months. I cared for her, supported her and loved her more than anything. She acted strange as though I was going to leave her becasue of this. After 6 months, she was better and everything seemed fine.

Around last Christmas, I began to notice little things that were not right. We have always had a very touchy feely relationship. She got to where she would not hold my hand. I tried to talk to her and she would get defensive and push me away. A few weeks later, she started staying up really late on the internet.

My wife was talking on-line to a large group of lesbian women. I clearly did not understand and she would not talk about it. She only said that she needs "women" friends. She started worrying about her appearance alot. She bought a complete new wardrobe. New nails, new hair....Well, by the middle of January I knew something was really wrong. Intimacy on her part was mechanical when there was any. She would push away at my simplest form of physical contact.

Needless to say, I thought that she was having an affair. Given who she had been spending 3 hours a day talking to, I had my suspicions that she was having a lesbian affair.

Shocked...Devastated...Destroyed...I really do not know what describes this. I repeatedly tried to get her to talk to me. She eventually came to the point that she said "I am in a funk. I am having a hard time with this" but she would not say what "this" was.

Now I am an engineer and everyone knows that we are not relationship people. I deal in facts, steel and hard equipment. I needed data and had none. I started finding some of the websites that she visited (I could get glimpses before she changed pages or turned the laptop away from me)to see what was being said. After a heck of a lot of searching, I found her screen name and one specific post which made my previous shock seem like an aftershock compared to 7.0 Earthquake. She basically admitted to this board that our sex was "mercy sex" and said some very horrible things about our relationship.

At this point, I had to know more. A divorce is just around the corner, and as far as I was concerned, there was no longer any trust in our relationship. I am a computer geek by choice and I spent a lot of effort to find out everything typed on our computers. I located her passwords and such and proceeded to find out what was going on.

Friday night I tried one last time to talk to her before confronting her the hard way. This actually made things worse as I do a very poor job of controlling my temper.

Sometime ago, it seems, she says that I stopped caring. She did not know how to handle this. Even though I tried to find out what was wrong many times, she would not talk to me. Late last night I sent her a "pledge" on what I would do to bring joy and love to our relationship if she were willing. She simply said that I had stopped caring but that was it.

Well, Saturday morning (she still had not seen my pledge) she sent an email to her VBLF (very best lesbian friend) telling her that the "jig is up" and that I know that she does not love me any more (even though I did not know this at this time). These words are the "this" she was having trouble handling.

After reading this, I walked straight to her and told her that I wanted a divorce. I admitted everything that I had done to find out exactly what was going on. She has been lying to me but she was clearly NOT having an affair. She also had no one to talk to and went online with a group that was readily available and would talk with her (she is a big fan of Showtime's "The L Word.")

We have done a lot of talking. She accuses me of going behind her back (which is true). I told her that felt that our relationship's trust factor was already destroyed by her inaction even when I was trying to figure out what was going on.

Sorry again for being so longwinded but I can't stop crying and I can't stop typing or I think I will die.

All through Sat we talked. Really talked. She seemed very concerned that I would take some backlash against her online friends (most of these women are married closet lesbians). I told her that I do not care who these women are. I was only interested in her.

In short, she is not willing to give up. We have gone through the dark regions of Hades itself to find a problem in our relationship.

My pledge to her still stands. I have asked her to write down her comments (pledges) so that we can use this to build a new relationship. As I tried to go to sleep tonight, I reliazed that I have promised her something that I have no clue how to do. I have pledge to court this loving mother and wife as though we had just met.

I am not a romantic but I am sensitive about my heart. I am 40 years old. What do I know about courting a beautiful woman? I am lost at this point. I have a wife that does not love me. I have made a promise that I have no idea how to keep. I have an 11 year old son who has had to watch us almost destroy our marriage. I am horrified to think that I will fail my family.

Any suggestions will be taken with an open mind. She has accepted my offer of marriage counseling which is very positive. I am moving out of our bedroom now. That is way I started typing this a 4AM. I cannot sleep at all anymore. Thank you in advance for any suggestions that you may have.

Welcome to marriagebuilders. Sorry you are here, but it is a great place to be.

Your wife is kind of having what we call an emotional affair. They are very common on the internet. It is a tempting place to go to when a person's needs are not being met. Add to that the anonymity and the fantasy involved, and there is a problem.

This may have something to do with your wife being sick, kind of like a re-examining of life sort of deal.

I suggest you try to spend 15 hours a week doing fun things together. That is what the Harleys advise.

Also it sounds like one of your wife's top needs is conversation. So try to bump it up a notch in that department. There is an emotional needs questionnaire here that you can check out.

Please stop talking about divorce. People who talk about it end up doing it.

Many of us went through the sleepless nights. It is miserable at first, but gets better when you actually have a plan.

Okay, now that you mention Harley's books, I have to add another layer to the original posts. I found marriage builders early this am. After reading all the great information, I had to post my story. However, I have never read any of these books. There are so many. Which one do I and my wife start reading today???? I can tell that if I were to accuse her of having an emotional affair, we are done....

THANK YOU for talking with me. I cannot even speak out loud with getting choked up. I can't sleep (with my wife, she could not sleep until this was out in the open and is now sleeping like a baby.....Go Figure).

Anon,
sorry for what you are going through right now. But, it sounds like you have a fighting chance to save your marriage, if that is in fact what you want to do. I am guessing that by your presence here you do.
First thing......move back into the marital bed. Nothing good can come from an in-house separation. Divorce is all that will come from that. I am not saying that you have to move back and act as if nothing has happened. But you need to be there next to your W. There are many other things you can do to fight for your M as well. Meeting of emotional needs is all part of it. This is a tough battle that you will have to cowboy up for. But you can do it. The wonderful people on this board will be there for you every step of the way.

WCNT

ANON,

Welcome to MB. Sorry u have t/b here but at the very very least, your W c/b having an EA. Even if it is only in her mind.

Here are my suggestions:

1. Read: His Needs/Her Needs, then read Surviving an Affair. Both are by Dr Harley.

2. Read the Concepts section above and if she is willing both of you take the EN questionnaire. If she won't, then you take it twice. Once as yourself and 2nd as her. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> C/b quite revealing.

3. Make an appointment to do phone counseling with Jennifer [email]C@MB.[/email] She is great working with the WW.

IMHO, your W has morphed into 2 different beings. Your W and as a WS. It is the WS who is rewriting your marital history. Remeber the WS was not present in your past so she feels justified in rewriting it. Also, it enables her to fuel the A by criticizing the M. Don't take it personally, that is just what WS' do.

4. Learn to know when your W is talking vs the WS. Learn NOT to accept manipulative blame. In plan A, you will learn how to make improvements on yourself. Don't do too much of the work and do not take all of the blame. Just what is truly pertaining to you and what you can work on. Make your personal improvements and move forward.

5. Learn NOT to let her babble hurt you.

6. Please read about the 5 stages of grieving in my sig line. It will help you learn what you feeling stages you may go through....so you can be prepared.

7. Secure your finances. WS' can be very selfish and do the craziest things, including taking family funds to fuel their A.

NOTE: One thing about women who are WS', they can be quite coniving. Women tend to plan/fantasize regarding the A more than men. In the book His Needs/Her Needs, you will find that a woman's brain is where many women find their stimulation for sex begins. Also, when frustrated, often nothing satisfies them. Hm.... like PMSing 24/7. YIKES!!! Sad but true.

Work with a good MC who is familar with MB principals.

You know, these 'closet Lezzi's' are probably more numerous than we realize. A woman's need for conversation is strong. Men's general inability to communicate is a constant struggle for many M's. The ocmbination is dealdy for any M.

Keep posting here.

take care,
L.

Orchid,

Thank you.....I really appreciate what you have to say. I have not had the chance to read any of these books yet. I think that I missing something. What are WW, W, WS, A, and etc? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

Thanks

If you look on the Just Found Out forum, the first thread gives you all of the abbreviations.

You can also read on the home page here. It has articles about emotional needs. It is very likely that your wife is searching for some to be met. Women are usually better at caring for other women, only because it comes more naturally for them.

I would not suggest that you ask your wife to read this stuff just yet. Try putting it into practice until you increase the balance in her love bank.

By the way, does she work outside the home?

Anon,

Check out this link for the acronyms.

mb lingo

WW - wayward wife
W - wife
WS - wayward spouse
A - affair
BS - betrayed spouse (that w/b you)


Hope it helps.

L.

Yes, she started a new job right before Christmas.

It is very interesting that she mentioned needing "women" friends. Just after her illness, I moved her to our new town. There were a lot of severed ties becasue of this. It is really hard for me to understand the hows and whys that led her to talk to closet lesbians. I found MB very quickly and just as quickly, I realized what a tool this board can be. It is clear that this site is full of very helpful and friendly people. I suggest several options to help her find friends here in our new town. I guess that it is much easier to do it on the internet especially if you are having trouble sleeping and it is late at night.

Thank You.

I need women friends. I work in engineering with ALL MEN. I was going crazy without having women to talk to. There is just something nurturing about having other women around.

The women your wife are talking to are probably filling this need. So that gives you a clue of what to do.

I would drop relationship talk, as that may make her uncomfortable. Ignore most of the stuff that she says to the other women. Just realize that she is probably lonely, and has found a fantasy world.

Then get busy doing things with her. Fifteen hours a week of undivided attention and time together is the suggestion. If there are things that she likes to do, start with those.

believer,

This is where I am confused. I see what she did and in a way I understand it. I have violated her trust and read everything she ever posted. I read all the sent emails. Would needing feminine friendship while you are having problems really be considered an EA <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

I am really sorry for asking so many questions but she will be waking up soon and I will have to stop. This site is wonderful. I cannot believe that I gotten this much response this fast.

THANK YOU, THANK YOU, THANK YOU

Orchid,


I missed this one:



All you have to do is go to Yahoo Groups and search on lesbian. I think that I saw THOUSANDS of groups for lesbians. There are almost 20 different sides for Showtime's the L Word alone. I sometimes wonder if these women are simply caught with a jerk of man and passes judgement based on this. Then, with the almost intimate nature that women seem to have for each other, they get confused and confuse a real good friendship as something else.

I have to be upfront and tell you that I am a homophobe. This is 180 degrees away from my wife's standpoint. She is perfectly accepting of it. When I say homophobe, I do not mean anger with it, bashing it, or demeaning those who are. I encourage openness and honesty more than anything. Everytime I see where someone "has come out", I am just a bit happier. If the entire world were open and honest, then I think God would have a smile as big as the universe is wide.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />Sorry, I am babbling like a 2 year old now.

Thanks,
C.

Was there anything of a sexual nature in her emails or posts to the lesbian group? If not, then maybe she isn't having an EA, but just made an odd choice of a place to look for friendship.

If she were really showing the signs of having an affair, then you did the right thing to snoop and try to find out what was happening. That's what you have to do to try to save a marriage when an affair is suspected. If this isn't your typical behavior, then she should know that. Just explain that you didn't know what else to do and you were really concerned.

Do you know why she feels that you don't care for her? That seems kind of strange, when you cared for her so much while she was ill. If I were you, I'd try to find out why out why she feels unloved and try to make her see that you really do love her.

Good luck and I hope that you two get back on track.

An EA is an inappropriate relationship with another person when you are married. Your wife has crossed the friendship boundary. I'm sure she is looking for support and validation.

The internet is a wonderful place to meet people, and a good way to fantasize. People tend to lie about their circumstances.

You can learn to meet her needs, and she will taper off the internet. It won't satisfy her like you can.

I have already downloaded the EN questionaire. I hope this will help me find out why she has stopped loving me. I have tried to document what I am prepared to do and how. This was the pledge that I referred to in my original post. I had asked her to do the same for me. She has had plenty of time but spent it crusing the same old websites. I must have a commitment that this M is salvagable. This pledge is my proof. Given the poor communication in the past, I think that this, almost anal appproach, is required. She does tend to remember things in a odd fashion. Chronology can get rearranged and agreements and understandings have a different meaning 3 weeks later. I have told her that I do not intend for the pledge to be concrete and unchangeable. We must both agree on what it should be and go on from there.

Day by day will have to become by new life for now.

Thanks,
C.

Don't expect any effort from her at first. Think of her like a drug addict. She is getting her drug of choice on line and will probably be quite content with that.

You can step up and be the leader, and start meeting her needs and enticing her to spend time with you. That will help build new memories, and decrease her dependence on the internet.

Well, I hope that I can at least get her to fill out the EN part. Clearly, I am clueless as to what her needs are.

She may not be willing to have you meet them right at this time. She might refuse to fill it out, saying it is too late.

But you can figure that spending time with her and conversation are up towards the top. Some women want domestic support - helping around the house, or with the kids, also.

The housework part I have already started. And yes you were correct in a sense. She thinks that I am pushing her this morning already. It seems that doing things around the house and talking to her are about the only things that I can do right now.

C.

That is the beauty of this site. You can figure out how they will respond to things. When they get to a certain point, they act the same. So you can benefit by others' experiences.