....this will spin your brains.

I honestly can not figure out what he's saying.

Huh?

WAT
--------------
Winter Olympics Die-athlon: Two skiers follow parallel paths and stop to shoot at each other. No silver or bronze medals will be awarded.

Shaaaaaaakey.

Proof by analogy, I love it.

GC

GC - did you get what he was arguing? Some hybrid creation/evolution/cosmic mumbo jumbo?

That's why I recomended it for 2long. Let him sink his teeth into it to "free" his mind. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

WAT

WAT:

Thanks for the diversion, only I'd better get back 2 work!

First fatal flaw (FFF):

"Remarkably, we find in astrophysics that the parameters of the universe are exquisitely fine-tuned for the production of human intelligence, similarly as a tree is fine-tuned for the production of seeds."

We find no such parametric fine-2ning. What about whales and dolphins? What about Cuttlefish? Maybe the parameters are really 2ned for them, and we're just lucky recipients of the crumbs.

A cosmologist friend had this sign on his door:

"If you can see it, it ain't worth studying."

-ol' 2long

wot, sounds like fog babble to me <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Circular logic in all it’s glory.

Heard of the Anthropomorphic Principle? There is even a Strong Anthropomorphic Principle. Goes back to Grecian times.

We can’t tell from ID or not by observation or experiment. We are on the inside looking out. The universe has these precise properties else we would not be here to notice them in the first place.

With prayers,

I am a Aristotlean. Not really, I just like how it rolls off the tongue.

Hey 2long, can you recomend any audio cosmology books other than Hawking, Feynman and Greene? New interest of mine. Fantastic stuff. Can't believe I thought physics/cosmology boring in college

I think if we are going to teach Intelligent Design, we need to teach Stupid Design along with it.

I mean a truly intelligent designer would have figured out how to make bipedal locomotion work without causing strain on the human back, hips, and knees, and would have designed the human pelvis such that babies would not have to be born well before they were able to walk. A really intelligent designer would have figured out a way for people to store fat against famine but also have a mechanism to prevent morbid obesity. I'm sure we could all make our list of Stupid Design flaws that would lead anyone who is paying attention to conclude that while there might be a designer out there who's handy at tinkering, he's really not all that bright.

El - couldn't agree more. I've got a loooooong list of poor human and animal design snafus.

Google "Incompetent Design" and feast your eyes.

But - despite the title, I didn't see that that article was about ID. I can't tell what the heck he's arguing - which is why I offered it to 2long > get his mind off other things for a break.........

WAT
---------------
Only here to procreate.

He's saying:

Trees come from seeds, and the information that makes them trees is in the seeds. Therefore, the universe comes from something, and the information that makes it the universe is... OW! Sorry, the implant they gave me on the first day of junior lab is going off. I have to report to the university for re-education.

GC

That was fun! I only read three of the links, but laughed a lot.


I didn't read much past the title, though.

More than that, intelligence is seen as the seed of the universe. And in order to have a seed, you must first have a similar tree. So if there is intelligence, it must have come from another intelligence. Chicken and the egg.

I am a wholehearted creationist, and not looking for a debate (having a whole house needing cleaning from top to bottom), but I was rather dismayed by his reaching. To me, he was just trying a little too hard to be profound. Very unconvincing.

To me a far better question would be where did everything come from? Not just intelligence....inanimate matter...

To each their own. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

Oh no, Neak. Now we're going to hear that it is all about mathematics.

Heck no!

It's all about geology, of course!

-ol' 2long

I hope I don’t mess this up. I am terrible at telling jokes.

A Mathematician, a Physicist and an Engineer were discussing the marvel of the human body.

The mathematician says, “Just look at the wonderful symmetry. Ponder the infinite combinatorial variety. God surely is a mathematician to have designed the human body.”

The Physicist says, “ On the contrary. God must truly be a Physicist. Examine the way all physical laws are incorporated. Think about the superb melding of pure form and function.”

The engineer sips his beer for a while and says, “Well, I know for sure God is not an engineer. No engineer worth his salt would run a primary sewage treatment outflow right through the middle of a major theme park.”

Could it be that babies are born before they're able to walk are designed to create a bond between parent and child? Would the intelligence needed to walk make the baby so aware of the state in which they exist thus causing trauma? Wouldn't the lungs need to be fully developed before walking? Wouldn't the level of vision required for mobility be difficult to develop within the womb?

Fat stored in case of famine? I think the brain is created with sufficient intelligence to plan in case of famine. Morbid obseity is a result of abuse of the design.

Designing the human body to perform perfectly without effort to achieve accomplishment would make life rather boring.

To consider the big bang theory to have any possibility of validity one would have to also imagine that a dictionary would result because of an explosion at the print shop. To consider Intelligent Design to be flawed one would need the wisdom to understand some perceived "design flaws" are used to assist in brain and character development.

My, my how limited our pathetic brains are and consider we only use a very small portion...and still we are so arrogant to think we could have done a better job...

Hey WAT!

It is your thread, after all! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

-ol' 2long

"If evolution is outlawed, only outlaws will evolve"

"The meek shall inherit the Earth, the rest of us will escape to the stars"

"Hickory dickory dock
The mice ran up the clock
The clock struck one
The others escaped with minor injuries."

Lots of animals are born able to locomote (horses, for instance). If an intelligent designer could solve the problems you pose for other mammals, why not for humans? I'm not suggesting a design feature unknown in the world of mammals.


I'm not saying I could have done a better job, only that I know what a better job and a poor job are. I can't install plumbing, but if my faucet starts leaking the day after the plumber put it in, I know somebody did a bad job.

The problem is Els, you're lowering human beings to the level of animals.

Why wouldn't your question be 'Why don't animals have the ability to speak and reason to the level that humans do?'

The difference in the design fits the role that all living things serve.