Hi all,

My previous woes can be seen here: Previous Post

The OM's vicar had a meeting with him on Thursday 2/2 and, as I understand it, he basically said OM needed to leave my WW alone or he would be likely to lose his job.

I went out for a meal with WW that evening and she told me again that she wanted to separate "properly". I reacted badly and we ended up both very upset. She ended up going to OM and staying at his house (apparently in spare room, had lots of talk to him, but she says no sex).

However, the next day she felt guilty and upset and said she wanted to work on the relationship.

My recovery rollercoaster is now underway:
[*] She told me there would be no contact, she agreed to give back stuff he lent, she wrote a letter of no contact amid many (real) tears.
[*] In the afternoon, she said she could not go through with it as it was too painful, and she was just doing it out of guilt.
[*] Later again she decided she would go ahead and we both drove down dropped his stuff off (she had been given a key and apparently she left this and the letter, but would not actually let me in his house to be certain).
[*] I see no sign of the affair phone, so I hope she gave that back too.
[*] Saturday was good, and she even agreed to go away for a few days just the two of us.
[*] However, Sunday and Monday she went (pre-arranged) to visit her mum (in N Ireland). On getting back, she said "we need a talk" and then said she was only doing this out of guilt, that she couldn't do that, and that she wanted to go back to the separation plan.

She says (again) that she doesn't want to pursue the relationship with OM but will not agree to no contact with him as she has failed to keep it up every time so far. She says that she only agreed on Friday out of guilt and because it was so painful to me, but that agreeing out of guilt meant that she doesn't have the resolve to keep it up.

She's gone back to her separation flat tonight and I don't really know how to respond. I guess I need to continue with Plan A, but it really feels so crap!

Anyway, please tell this is not unusual and that there's still hope!

DRD

DRD, just advice - please don't keep starting new threads. It makes your story almost impossible to follow.

oh, and it's not unusual and there is still hope.

Thanks BigK, and sorry.

Knowing the standard procedure is difficult sometimes, and I was thinking that once a thread became stale it was better to start a new one so that it didn't get too long.

Will stick with this one from now on.

DRD

Also BigK, on the last thread you suggested you had some advice for me, but never actually gave it. Do you think it's still relevant?

DRD

DRD,

Last times I posted to you was 2 threads ago - see what I mean about confusing? LOL <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I can't see where you think I had advice I didn't give????

I did refer you back to the original thread in that thread where I told you the advice you received previously was still relevant because your situation was unchanged.

If you have another post of mine you are thinking of, let me know and I'll take a look.

Sorry BigK, it was RookKev. Getting my K's confused.

DRD

Update: For the past week she's been staying at the flat each evening, with varying degrees of time at home.

She comes to the house in the morning and takes the kids to school, then stays until they're in bed, then usually goes fairly quickly to the flat.

It makes it very difficult for me to actually interact with her and hence attempt to show her love and meet her needs (the primary of which I believe is for conversation).

On Friday the vicar met OM again and apparently he's still not made a final decision - but it's still likely that OM will lose his job in the church. That evening was very hard and my wife again said she wanted a formal separation.

She says that my action (in telling the OM's vicar about the affair) has driven a permanent wedge between us which she can never forgive me for, even though she says she knows I was acting for "the right reasons". While I believe this is fog-talk, it sounded pretty serious. Then she went off to her flat.

On Saturday morning she came back early and got into bed with me saying that she's missed me overnight. We had a good chat and a cuddle. However, by afternoon she was really cold again and saying that she only did that out of guilt for how she was treating me - but that guilt was not enough for her to keep it up. She still wants a separation.

Over the weekend we went to the cinema with the kids (very little actual interaction involved, which is why she suggested it, I believe). I had suggested a walk with the kids Sun afternoon, but it was wet and not suitable, so we stayed in and she avoided talking to me. By the evening we were able to have a short "normal" conversation about films and TV, which was good. However, she says such talk is false and does not make her feel any better about us.

I'm not sure the best way of proceeding, as I feel like she is not listening to what I say or do.

Anyway, if there's any specific sage advice, please let me know it. I find it difficult to know how to proceed with plan A while effectively being separated.

DRD

you should be in a solid plan A right now with back pocket plans for plan B...

truth is that your D-day is just a month ago....

you should seek legal counsel on the issue with the children without concerning her about that...

seeking out what rights you have to block the kids exposure to the OM...and really any MEN at all...

You should be happy to see her..

play board games with the children and invite her to play...


smile at her..

ask her how she is doing...

verbalize concerns ...
are you sleeping well..you look tired...

tell her that you do not want a formal seperation as your goal in marrying her and having children was never ever to have them raised in two seperate homes...
and that it is not eachother that end up being divorced but that you end up in reality divorcing your children....

I pray that your plans are for you to seek primary custody...

for she is the one that left...

what are the "reasons' she says for the affair....

also you should consider having her come over and babysit...and you go somewhere....

with out giving too much information about where you are going and what you are doing...

it's a lot different for her to claim her freedom and come and go as she pleases...she has no idea what that looks like from her end...and sometimes showing her that you are not home pining for her...but finding and seeking new things for yourself....gives a little dose of reality which WS aren't real comfortable with in action..

ARK

Thanks Ark, I appreciate it.

While she's still contacting OM (phone), she says she's not actually seeing him. Strangely, I believe this, as she's not going to her choir and is making some effort to be a bit more normal with me.

She's at least very careful to ensure the kids don't think there's anything up, which makes me think she's still slightly interested in the marriage.

I have said the things about divorcing the children, etc. many times and she still asks for a more formal separation - I have said I'm just not in that place, and she appears to accept that but becomes more desperate as a result.

She says she had the affair because our relationship was already over and she was no longer attracted to me, that he was (and is) her soul mate. Certainly we had drifted apart to some degree and the marriage was running poorly - I accept some responsibility for that:
[*] We interract with and react badly to each other
[*] We have been doing many activities apart and not spending enough time together
[*] Our interests have diverged
[*] We've not been meeting each other's ENs (in particular I have not been conversing with her, which I believe is her primary EN).

She wrote in her diary in April 2005 that things were poor between us, but did not tell me how she felt or try to improve things herself - she became depressed and clearly started to look elsewhere.

When she finally told me she was feeling our marriage was dying in October, she had already started finding OM attractive, and telling me "allowed" her to take the next step with him (while telling me she was having counselling to sort out her feelings to me).

And she's not actually coming and going as she pleases - she leaves after the kids are in bed, but if I have anything I want to do in the evening she will stay in the house for me to go out.

In fact, she'd love for me to be the one going to stay in the flat and leaving her in the house with the kids. I'm not willing to do this at present as I feel I should not deliberately leave the kids other than for normal reasons, and I certainly don't want to sleep in another place from them.

I am trying to do plan A properly, but just find it difficult to believe anything is getting through to her.

I must go to bed - it's after midnight here - but will check in tomorrow.

Thanks again,
DRD

DRD,

You have to be sure the affair is really over and there is No Contact - your Plan A will be a waste of time if the affair is ongoing.

Amazing eh, she loses her feelings for you right when she starts her affair - Imagine that. Sigh.

There has to be a WS manaul where they write all this rubbish.

Oh - you are absolutely right. On no account leave your home or children. You have to protect them from her affair.

She is still foggy at the moment particularly if the affair is ongoing.

Can you get her to read His Needs, Her Needs or Surviving an Affair?

Hi BigK,

There definitely is contact, which is one reason I find it so difficult at present. She agreed to NC about 1.5 weeks ago but then said last week that she only did this out of guilt and that she could not keep it up.

The problem is, that despite exposure, and the likelihood that OM will lose his job over this, she is still contacting him regularly. Perhaps it will stop once he has actually lost his church job, but then he may have little else to lose by continuing contact. However, I have still not exposed to her choir, and am not sure I want to (she has stopped going now, so it might only be a love buster anyway).

At one point she agreed with the description of it as an addiction. I said that the AA method is worth trying - one day on the wagon of "no OM contact" at a time. She said that she "had tried that" and because it was only being done out of guilt she had failed. She preferred to think of it as a heroin addiction - that she would try to wean herself off it slowly by contacting him less as time goes on! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

I do need to get hold of Surviving An Affair - I can (and will) buy it from Amazon ASAP.

DRD

You have to be sure the affair is really over and there is No Contact - your Plan A will be a waste of time if the affair is ongoing.

Plan A is allllllllll about there being contact between the op and WS....

plan A is not a waste of time....when there is contact..it is exactly how to manuever survive, instill hope, and set boundaries...all while contact occurs...

ARK

You're right Ark - I meant more to say that it is impossible to meet EN's while the affair is ongoing because the WS is generally won't permit the BS to meet their needs. I know Plan A is about showing the WS that the BS can meet their needs when the affair ends. I'm sorry I got my terminology wrong.

cool..

I get scared when I see something like that...

we are all much better served by these boards when we in theory get what the program is.....

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />ark

Thanks both of you (Ark and BigK).

I am doing what I can to show her I love her.

For valentines day I got her a card and sent her a bunch of flowers. She got me a card too, but it was one saying "I'm not sure what to say. I feel sad. Hope your heart can recover".

We also had a meal together on Valentines evening (cooked by me) and then watched an hour of TV together. But then she went back to her flat and talked to OM for 20 mins.

Still, that's hours with me, but only 20 mins with him! I should be grateful for some small mercies!

We're going out for a meal with friends on Thursday, so hope that will be good too.

Anyway, continue to give me helpful pointers, please.

NB - I have ordered SAA and HNHN(for parents) along with a number of other books. Will read in more detail when I have them.

DRD

You don't believe this, right? - the no sex part.

What's a vicar?

A couple of questions:

1. How do you know she talked to OM for 20 mins?
2. Have you changed from the man you were pre DDay?
3. Does she have a small belief those changes are not just temporary?
4. Do you feel like they are temporary?
5. Why do you think she is 'pretending' to play family still with your children?

-As for a couple of other things... you are a religious family (the whole church and such references) -- doesn't she supposed the guilt she is feeling isn't because of you, but because God is convicting her of her wrongdoings?

-Plan A is (from my understanding) all about showing that you know some of what you did wrong and you desire for a different marriage also. It is also about you demonstrating the ability to change, not just talking about it.

-I will go a bit more after you have a chance to answer those q's.

-hang in there

Worthatry,



In this specific instance, I think she was telling the truth, though of course I could be wrong and am under no illusion about that.

However, I know her well and am getting fairly good at telling when she's lying to me. This time, I don't think she was.

DRD

Hi RookKev,

To answer your variopus points:
I looked at the last call duration on her mobile phone (which was from him about 11pm).
I am changing - not completely there, e.g.:
[*] Going to gym and have lost 1/2 stone (I was 12st12oz and am now 12st4oz. On a height of 6'2" this is not very overweight, but I do have love handles, etc).
[*] Changing the way I relate to her - texting her regularly, calling her regularly, buying flowers and cards regularly, switching off TV / leaving PC when she comes home and making my self available to talk, etc. These things I tended to do as *needed* before.
[*] Trying to ensure I know more about what is going on day-to-day in her life and that of the kids, ensuring that I assist and help around the house more, either with housework or with kids (though I did do a lot of this anyway).
I don't know. I hope she will see that it'll be permanent, but of course it's only early days. Our D-Day was 1/1/06. And she's still contacting OM, so noticing the things I do may take some time to sink in.
No - I hope not. However, I will need to work daily to ensure I do not relapse / relax into my old ways.
Because she knows that it is not really "right" to be doing what she's doing. But she feels she cannot back down and hence cannot come back to living with me properly yet.

I accept that there are multiple other reasons, one of which may be that she has decided that it is possible to follow a "how to divorce without screwing up your kids" programme (there's a TV programme on British TV by that name at present) such that the kids are not damaged by what she's doing (or damaged minimally).

I think it is not possible to divorce without some damage to the kids, but she thinks that if we are cordial and can agree on a separation plan then it may even be *better* for the kids if we do divorce (as her stress will apparently be lower, hence she will shout less at them).
That would be my feeling / suggestion, but she has decided that her belief in God does not exist any more - or is something less than it was. She is therefore not responding to this, despite it being part of the probable reality.
Indeed - and that is what I'm trying to do. Hope it works, but is difficult already to keep up when it gets a largely stony response.

Anyway, I look forward to your further comments! Thanks.

DRD