My husband of many years began having lunch regularly with a female colleague a couple of years ago. I asked him to reconsider his actions as their lunch arrangements hurt me greatly. I was so relieved, as I believed that he had heard my concerns and was not lunching with her any more. He would occasionally say "Ran into X today etc etc". That was ok with me as they were colleagues and could not be completely separate.

I realised late last year that nothing had changed. They had continued their lunch dates. The only difference was that he had kept it from me. He says he is sorry for the lies told, but he continues to see her. He says that he is not doing anything wrong and will not change what he is doing.

I am very hurt and confused. Any advice please?

If there is nothing physical, he is having an Emotional Affair (EA).

Georgina, it most certainly can be infidelity. That he lies about it may also be a bad sign. But you need more information. Have you noticed unusual numbers of phone calls outside the workplace? Emails? Working extended hours or on normal days off? Unexplained nights out with the guys? Anything like that?

I suggest you get the book Not "Just Friends" by Dr. Shirley P. Glass, Ph.D. I think it will be a revelation to you and to your husband, if he will read it too.

Best definition I found of infidelity was Dr' Harleys in this page.

Do you know her? Can you eventually join them?

They have lunch everyday?

You have to make him see that if it's hurting you then it's wrong.

Check this out by Steve Harley...
http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi8501_fft.html

Georgina, your H is emotionally betraying you and what he's doing is very wrong and inappropriate. Check out the following link:

Emotional infidelity in the workplace

The book "NOT just Friends" (as suggested by Longhorn) is a must read for you & your H. The link above contain some extracts from Shirley Glass's book and website and will be a good starting point.

Or he is simply having lunch. In a previous job, I had lunch every day with a male coworker. Sometimes we were joined by others, but more often than not, it was just the two of us. We talked about work mostly. We were and still are friends even tho we don't work together anymore. We never crossed any line of propriety probably because we both had sense enough to understand boundaries and because we valued each other as friends. So I certainly don't think that this is necessarily an affair.



I agree here. I also don't like that once you told him it bothered you that he continued and simply lied about it. I have never cheated on my FWH, but if he had told me my lunches bothered him, then I would have honored his request that they stop.

Before my FWH had his affair, I didn't care a bit about who he had lunch with. Now, he doesn't get the kind of freedom he abused in the past. No lunch, no happy hour, no female friends!

Who

WhoMe, the fact that Georgina’s H kept the lunches between him and OW secret from her and didn’t tell her about it is the main issue here. And he kept doing this even after Georgina told him that she is not comfortable with the lunch arrangements and that it hurt her… The fact that he kept it secret and did it while he know it would hurt his W, makes it emotional betrayal towards his wife. One of the components of an EA is secrecy (read the link I’ve provided to Georgina on this thread). Someone who has nothing to hide, hide nothing…and Georgina’s H clearly had something to hide otherwise he wouldn’t have kept the lunches secret from her.

:::::Before my FWH had his affair, I didn't care a bit about who he had lunch with. Now, he doesn't get the kind of freedom he abused in the past. No lunch, no happy hour, no female friends!

ditto here.

I can even add to it. No porn. No looking at OW in the street, no going to conferences without me!

AN

Your inner instincts are correct and that is why you searched out the same web site that we all did. Your H is in dangerous waters and the fact that he lied might tell you that he is already emotionally connected to this friend at work.

It is time for you to do some serious investigation as others have suggested. Cell phone records and maybe installing computer software if he is online a lot, etc. Here is w web site that will give you good reading for any stage of a possible affair.

http://www.surviving-infidelity-kit.com/

Sorry, we all know the stage you are at, and if you find what so many of us have found, you will not like what you find. It is time for you to insure and protect your marriage, as you know.

TooSoon

Suzet,

I understand completely what you mean about his dishonesty and you will note that I also mentioned that in my post. What I am saying is simply that the problem here may not be either an EA or a PA and Georgina isn't going to know that if she doesn't do some further investigating.

I acknowledge that his disregard for her feelings here requires some serious work and does qualify as betrayal and disrespect. I am still not convinced that it is an affair--YET.

As a woman in the military, for many years I worked predominently with men. When I was a young officer, I was often treated very badly by the wives of my coworkers simply because I was a woman. Many of these women constantly stressed out and nagged at their husbands about them working with women. I never engaged in any type of inappropriate behavior with my coworkers, either emotional or physical, nor did I have any desire to have any relationship with any of them other than professional. Please keep in mind that all women are not looking to begin affairs with coworkers.

As a BS whose FWH did engage in an affair with a coworker, I do not say this lightly.

IMHO, Georgina needs to assess her marriage and move cautiously here, because she really does not know if her husband is having an affair.

Who

WhoMe,

I understand what you're saying. Thanks for you explanation! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I'm a FWW who had an inappropriate friendship at work (which almost escalated into a serious EA), so I'm just very "sensitized" to A's now because I know how people can unwittingly form deep, passionate connections before realizing that they've crossed the line from platonic friendship into romantic love... I’ve experienced this myself and I know this usually happens if people are not cautious, careful, aware of their own weaknesses/vulnerabilities and not having strong boundaries in place with the opposite sex.

I agree that Georgina's H might not be involved in an EA and/or PA yet, but his actions (and therefore the friendship) is already inappropriate and this spells DANGER to me. It’s also very possible that he’s already emotionally attached and attracted to this co-worker. She's filling his EN's (even if it is just his need for Conversation) and he is becoming addicted to her and the lunch meetings...and I suspect that's why he find it hard to stop the lunches with this coworker and find it necessary to keep the lunch meetings secret from his W.

Also (as stated by TooSoon) usually a spouse's instinct is correct, so probably Georgina have sensed long ago that something is not right with her H's friendship with this co-worker.

Blessings,
Suzet

why did him having lunch with a coworker hurt you? i don't understand.

Shadpoo, please read the link I’ve provided earlier on this thread namely “Emotional Infidelity in the workplace” and then you will understand. Most A’s start as platonic and “innocent” friendships between people of the opposite sex and then escalate one tiny bit at a time until they find themselves in an EA and/or PA. But you will understand if you click on that link and read all the information on that thread. The fact that Georgina's H have regular lunches with the same opposte sex coworker alone all the time is inappropriate and a danger to Georgina's M and therefore hurtful to her.

According to what I read, assuming poster's H has average number of female acquaintances in relation to that study, H has a 25% chance of this relationship ending up in an affair knowing no other information about the person.

So in order to eliminate this 25% chance and protect the marriage, we will eliminate all friends of the opposite sex?

A more likely(by a large margin) scenario is H felt W was being possessive and lacked trust in H. H knew he was doing nothing wrong and opted to just not inform W of the completely innnocent act.

So perhaps in the process of W saying H was hurting her by HAVING LUNCH with a coworker the risk of an EA has increased because H now feels W lacks trust in him.(could easily be considered a LB)

No, one doesn’t have to eliminate ALL friends of the opposite sex, just make sure that friendships with the opposite sex are kept appropriate and that strong boundaries are kept in place with such friends… And unfortunately having private lunches with the same opposite sex-worker all the time AND keeping it secret from the spouse while you know the spouse is not comfortable with it, is inappropriate and shows that there is not good boundaries.

Friends of the opposite should always be a friend of both the spouses and the marriage where preferably both spouses can share time with the person. Private lunches etc. with opposite sex workers should be kept to the minimum. Rather invite the spouse with and/or include other workers.

I disagree, the lunches only became private after W's possessiveness prompted H to just not tell W because he was doing nothing inappropriate. Having a spouse that is uncomfortable with you having lunch with a good friend/coworker/whatever, no matter the sex, shows a problem in the possessive partner's ability to trust and communicate with the other.

And I don't understand what you mean by good boundaries, where are they?
This is a solution in search of a problem, there are far better ways of handling potential situations like this without handicapping one's social circle. I personally would find it very disturbing if one of my good female friends were ALWAYS with her partner when we were doing something together.

Even though it’s possible that H was doing nothing wrong he should have stopped having regular lunches with this woman after he have learned about his W's unhappiness with this... He should have respected her feelings in this regard. If H is not emotionally attached to this coworker and if their friendship is really so innocent, why then could he not just cut off the regular lunches with the coworker and respect his W’s wishes? But the fact that he didn’t do this and secretly continue with the lunches, tell me there is something inappropriate going on here.

The issue was not about the W’s H HAVING LUNCH with the coworker, it’s was about having REGULAR lunches with the SAME coworker ALONE all the time… See the difference. Will you feel comfortable and at east if your W have regular private lunches with a male coworker all the time? Probably you will trust your W but if you don’t know the coworker and if he is not a friend of you too…how will you know if you can trust him (the coworker)?

Can you see what I’m trying to show you?

Here it is (copied from the link I’ve provided earlier on this thread):

HOW TO KEEP TEMPTATION AT ARM'S LENGTH

There is no such thing as an affair-proof marriage. But couples who want to protect their unions from infidelity can be mindful of the dangers. To keep a marriage healthy:

* Stay honest with your partner. ''Honesty is the trump card for preventing affairs,'' says Peggy Vaughan, who has studied affairs for more than two decades. Her Web site is dearpeggy.com. ''Make a commitment to sharing your attractions and temptations.'' That helps to avoid acting on them. Dishonesty and deception cause affairs to flourish, Vaughan says.

* Monitor your marriage. ''Realize if there is something missing,'' says psychologist Kimberly Young of St. Bonaventure University in southwest New York state. ''Be willing to try to fix it.'' Assess whether needs are being met.

* Stay alert for temptations. ''Be very careful of getting involved in the first place,'' Young says. ''Know the dangers. You can be drawn to an affair as to a drug. And once you are past a certain point of emotional connection, it is very hard to go into reverse.''

* Don't flirt. ''That is how affairs start,'' says Bonnie Eaker Weil, whose Web site, www.makeupdontbreakup .com, features tips for preventing infidelity. ''Flirting is not part of an innocent friendship. If you think there might be a problem with someone you flirt with, there probably is a problem.''

* Recognize that work can be a danger zone. ''Don't lunch or take private coffee breaks with the same person all the time,'' psychologist Shirley Glass says.

* Beware of the lure of the Internet. ''Emotional affairs develop quickly, in maybe a few days or weeks online, where it might take a year at the office,'' Young says. ''There is safety behind the computer screen.''

* Keep old flames from reigniting. ''If you value your marriage, think twice about having lunch with one,'' Glass says. Invite your partner along.

* Value the intimacy of your marriage. ''Reveal as much of yourself to one another as possible,'' Atlanta psychiatrist Frank Pittman says. ''You will find it less necessary to form an intimate friendship with someone else.''

* Make sure your social network supports marriage. ''Surround yourself with happily married friends who don't believe in fooling around,'' Glass says.

Here are 10 rules for avoiding emotional infidelity.

1. Keep it all business in the office.
2. Avoid meetings with members of the opposite sex outside the workplace.
3. Meet in groups.
4. Find polite ways of ending personal conversations.
5. Take particular care not to have regular (perhaps daily or even weekly) conversations about your life outside work.
6. Don't share your personal feelings.
7. Be unflinchingly honest with yourself.
8. Avoid cordial kisses and hugs, or dancing with members of the opposite sex.
9. Don't drink in mixed company.
10. Show your commitment to your spouse daily.

Are you a woman who shares secrets with a male friend? Are you the kind of man who reviews his weekend plans with a female co- worker? Or do you go out for drinks with a colleague of the opposite sex?

If you are married and answer yes to any of these questions, then therapist M. Gary Neuman has a word to describe your behavior: unfaithful. "We can't fool ourselves into believing that we can have intimate relationships at work and still have a great relationship at home," says Neuman. "My message is that if you want to infuse passion and have a buddy for the rest of your life, you have to keep that emotional content in your marriage."