shadpoo, I would predict that you are in for a very long hard road if you think its "personal growth" to torment your spouse by acting in untrustworthy, thoughtless manners. I suspect disappointment will be a way of life for you. The only "growth" that will achieve is in the wallet of a good divorce attorney's wallet. You won't be married for long with that selfish, thoughtless, immature manner.

I would also point out that folks come here to learn about MARRIAGE BUILDERS principles [see the logo above?], not about the world according to some inexperienced, unqualified guy on the internet who knows absolutely nothing about Marriage Builders. Dr. Harley is a world reknowned, successful marriage counselor and the "advice" you are offering is in direct contradiction to his tried and true principles.

I can't imagine what has motivated you to cme here and proffer your so-called "advice," but you are not being helpful if you don't understand the MB program because you are not qualified to give advice.

I think for people like Shadpoo it’s important to keep in mind that even the most trustworthy, sincere, conservative, moral, good-intentioned spouse on this earth can become emotionally attached and/or developed inappropriate feelings for a friend of the opposite sex if too much time is spending alone in the company of such a friend (including regular private conversations on phone, e-mail, Internet etc).

IMO it’s also very naïve, immature, ignorant and dangerous for married people like him to underestimate the natural biological & chemical attraction that often exist/develop between members of the opposite sex if they’re allowed to fulfill each others EN’s through regular private conversations, recreational time alone together (like lunches, coffee breaks etc.) - and exlude the spouse from such a friendship.

It’s also important to keep in mind that if a person become tempted but don’t act on such an attraction and/or attachment, the inappropriate feelings in itself which can develop from such a close friendship (even if the feelings are not shared with the opposite sex friend) is a very real danger to the M since it takes emotional energy away from the M and usually lead to “mental” betrayal (fantasies, dwelling thoughts about the OP etc). That’s why it’s important to safeguard the M and keep strong boundaries in place with opposite sex friends so that the possibility that such an attraction/attachment with someone of the opposite sex can develop, be avoided and/or reduced to the absolute minimum.

Prevention is better than cure…that’s why I think it’s better to prevent temptations and inappropriate attractions/feelings from developing in the first place (by keeping up good boundaries with the opposite sex) than to be ignorant about it and wait until the temptation might arrive at the front doorstep and put the spouse and M in danger…

Of course all of the above is hard earned lesson I’ve learned through personal experience as a FWW...and I know how hard it is to recover from such an attraction/emotional attachement even though I have never acted on those feelings... And the pain this whole ordeal caused my DH and M was very huge as well... Before that, I used to have the same thought process than Shadpoo and I was also very naive & immature about this whole opposite sex friendship issue… I just hope Shadpoo doesn’t have to learn things “the hard way” (like I did) and be effected by infidelity himself one day…

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> huh???? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

What brings you to these BB's Shadpoo? You have a lot to say and something caused you to come here. Have you ever cheated on your spouse?

Hey! Georgina! Are you still out there, lady? Seems like your thread has taken on a life of its own, doesn't it? Hopefully some of the discussion has been of help to you.

Have you addressed the issue of your husband's lies about the lunches? Have you found any indicators a full-blown EA or PA is in progress? We'd surely like to hear from you.

Longhorn, thanks for your response. I found out about the lunches approx two years ago from the colleague completely by accident. I asked H not to continue and believed that this was the case. Because I thought that he had done this, I attended occasional joint functions with collegue and her H as he seemed to want to have a friendship with this woman. H has now told me that he is not doing anything wrong and that he did not tell me because he did not want me to continue to make a fuss - he says he was avoiding confrontation. I found out about the lunches last year when H and I were with colleague and her H and the behaviour of H and colleague was such that the penny dropped (with a loud clang!) There was nothing overt. Just enough to show that these two people knew each other very well and obviously spend a lot of time together.

Georgina, your husband (at the very least) is lying to you and then giving you a lame excuse. That has to be addressed because he owes you honesty in all things in the marriage. He doesn't get to tell "little white lies" so he can continue to behave in a fashion that hurts you.

That's assuming nothing is going on between them. I asked you earlier if you could see any other indicators he might be having a full-blown affair? Have you found any? Have you ordered that book I suggested you get? It's available for much less than the cover price on Half.com

If your husband won't agree to break off this relationship and then be totally transparent, consider calling the OW's husband and getting him on board with a plan to break up what can turn into an affair. Alternately, or in conjunction with that, start dropping in on your husband at lunch time and start interrupting that.

If you have found more information that leads to a conclusion he's having an affair, there are lots of things you can do to break it up. Folks out here will be there for you to help.

I understand EXACTLY what MB does, it replaces God with your spouse.

perhaps you're correct, I will keep it in mind, thank you.

you don't understand

It is fair to say that not all spouses that have close friends of the opposite sex in the workplace have affairs but, on the other hand, all workplace affairs start out as two people of the opposite sex being close friends. That is why it is not recommended to have too close of friends of the opposite sex in the workplace.

TooSoon

No one can "replace God."

correct, so therefore, any EN not being met by a spouse is met by God, JUST LIKE ALL OF THEM WERE BEFORE THE MARRIAGE. But apparently some people do not do this, therefore according to MB, they have an affair. So MB tries to prevent this by making all ENs met by the spouse instead of letting the ones the spouse misses to be taken care of by God.

Thats some interesting "logic" ya have going there, shaddoo. lol

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> again!??!!? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

I doubt God appreciates this, but maybe you know something about Him I don't.

Since I cannot communicate with you without you putting me down, I will leave you to your musings.

Ya have any good crack? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

When I registered my post (my first one) I hoped for some support and advice from people who knew and understood the principles of MB and whose experience would allow them to respond with empathy. In that respect my expectations were too high. Some of the comments and questions were very helpful but in the main the discussion has been taken over by someone who does not seem to be there to provide support and does not seem to have a clear understanding of MB. As a new member of the forum I am disappointed and I am not sure that I will use it again.

Georgina. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

Georgina, I am very sorry your thread has been hijacked. I truly am. Can I suggest that you start a new thread and hopefully he doesn't follow?

Dear Gerogina,
I, too, am sorry that someone took over your post and filled it with information that is very against MB principles and the way I see it, also against the principles that God has set up for marriage.

There were some very good posts on your thread, as well.

Have you read any of the books? His Needs/Her Needs was written by Dr. Harley, a Christian. I am certain he is not going to steer you wrong.

Not Just Friends is often recommended as well.

Surviving an Affair, also by Dr. Harley, talks about just this type of situation.

I think that anytime your spouse is doing something in secret, it disrespects you and your relationship.

Are you and your husband Christians? If so, maybe you can make an appointment to talk with someone from your church such as a pastor or counselor.

Many people do not believe that it can be an affair with out sex. That is not the truth.

Georgina, please do not take the comments here personally. Do not put the blame on yourself and DO NOT doubt yourself because someone is saying you have a trust issue. It is your spouse's responsibility to remain trustworthy. It doesn't sound like he is doing that.

Hang in there.