Please help.... I was told to X-post this for more feedback since infidelity has raised its ugly head in our marriage before.....

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/sho...ID=#Post2934293

Welcome to marriagebuilders. You need to figure out for sure if she is having an affair, and who the OM is. Then you can expose the affair, and hopefully end it.

Have you done any checking?

Good to see you here in GQII, Lost.

"she said she was overwelmed and felt pressure and back into a corner.... I dont see how.... I never demanded a decision or even asked her to make one."

Your wife is good at using "I" statements. I think you're hearing accusation, that you're the cause of the way she feels. This isn't necessarily true. One of things you might not have learned after your infidelity (I don't know how to abbreviate unfaithfulness...an affair is a ONS, a kiss, an ILY, or just getting your needs met elsewhere, anytime that directly harms the marriage), was to listen and communicate respectfully.

Seems like in this statement you assume that she is saying you're applying pressure, backing her into a corner, is that correct? She didn't say that. She said that she feels these things. Can you see the difference?

Being heard is a primary emotional need for most people. Being accepted by your spouse is in there, too. Believing you're acceptable is not within the spouse's control...that is solely each person's responsibility. Knowing where the lines are, where your control ends and another person begins, really helps you to choose your actions in a respectful light.

I've heard that 90% of marital problems don't need to be solved. They need to be understood. I believe it. What I used to hear my H as saying, "Fix this," was not what he was saying at all. Stop your fixer/pleaser. Use that energy to listen, repeat and comprehend.

"I learned of the importance of appreciating her after yet another bump in our life when she had an affair 'just to wake me up'." Okay, so you didn't get to the bottom of why you were unfaithful in yourself, and it looks like, if this is the reason she and you believe, then she hasn't gotten to the bottom of her infidelity either. How long ago was hers?

" I feel like she is asking for a 6 month leave of absence from our marriage to 'test the waters'" Okay, I'll bite...which is it? Has she stated she wants to pretend to be unmarried for six months, or she just feels like it?

More mindreading? Assumption? I'm not bashing you, but if you want your life to not be crazymaking and disrespectful, please focus on only what is said, not through your filter, 'k? There is a lot of relief in maintaining respect.

Your own guilt and shame are going to play pinball with your emotions right now. Tell me why you had that quickie, what is it in you that had to do that? You have not caused your wife to be unfaitful in any way. That's her choice.

Remember that.

LA

wow.... Im at a loss for words. LA, you have made so much clear to me.

lesson #1: listen and comprehend... don't anylize and read into things....I'm in a relationship and Im not the councelor, I'm a partener. understood.

Lesson#2: Effective communication is a key to understanding each other. Without effective/open communication ( with respect) issues are temporarily supressed, not resolved or dealt with appropriately

Lesson#3: Don't confuse what is felt with what is said... very different... Im having trouble with this one and need to understand it better... HELP!!!

Lesson#4: Get to the root of the problem, not what is on the surface. Find the origin if thge problem and deal with it, not the effect it has on the relationship.

My infidelity:

92, 94 2 different ONS... I don't know why....I was the hunted....why did I not stop it? Alcohol and I guess I was drawn to the fact that someone else was interested in me other than my W...escalated very quickly. I cannot place a timeframe of how our relationship was at those times, but I do know ( looking back) I was NOT the husband/father I needed to be. I have since learned to avoid any arena that would put me back into a precarious situation.

Her infidelity:
92 ONS vengance for mine with friend of mine
99 PA After unhappiness from unmet emotional needs and lack of companionship and control issues- my WAKE UP CALL
00 EA after more unmet emotional needs/control issues

Leave of absence dialog:

W: "What happens if I make the wrong decision and don't find out until the end... what then?"

Me: "Do you mean will I take you back?"

W: "Yes."

Me: "I can't honestly answer you because I don't know where I will be in my heart and mind.... the way I feel now... yes, but I don't know about the future.... sounds like your asking for a 6 month leave of absence from the marriage."

W: "I'm scared.... I don't want to make the wrong decision.... what if I do.... what if I'm wrong?"

Me: "I can't answer that..."

Lesson #5: It is OUR marriage... OUR relationship...I cannot fix it alone nor should I attempt to alone. WE need to focus on whats missing and find solutions and understanding each other in OUR relationship. OPEN COMMUNICATION and focus on what is said and don't read too deep into what is said and come to my own conclusions and assumptions.

Lesson#6: Don't blame myself for her shortfalls... hard to swallow that because if I made her happy, it would not have even been a thought in her mind (vulnerable). When one half of any relationship leaves a GAP or a HOLE in the other half... it will be filled... by you or anyone that fills the void.... DONT LEAVE GAPS OR HOLES in your relationship no matter how small. Fill every one to the top and keep it that way... emotional need are VITAL!

Did I miss any points?

I went to seek councelling today to try and figure out my issues... waiting on a call back from the office for an appointment. While I was there talking to one of the Directors(I know people there that are close to me due to my job)my W called. YAY!!! I was pleased to hear from her.

I allowed him to stay in the closed room while I spoke to my W... I wanted input on my conversation with her from an outside source. We talked for roughly 20-30 minutes. She is burned out on trying, but scared (crying). Her main topic was, "Why did you wait so long to do something about this?" I still don't know if its too late, but my Director friend said it sounds promising from what he heard ( I tried to repeat what she was saying so he knew).

He told me of good and bad in my conversation.... I started and ended with a loving, caring companion that wants nothing more than to rebuild.... but in the middle, he said my voice and reflection was very close to clinical/professional communication rather than my own relationship. I didn't realize I was doing this at all and thanked him for the insight.

she is calling me back to talk more at lunch if she can bare to continue where we left off....

BTW... She assures me that there is NO OM.... I find it hard to believe( I think OM is a saftey net, so to speak) and not wanting to push the TRUST AND HONESTY issues, but Im trying not to focus on this issue as it seems to start an interrogation approach and that is not healthy at this fragile stage. My focal point is the ROOT of what caused all this to transpire in our lives again.... I love her with all my heart

Thanks for all the support and words of wisdom

Update:

she called me just around lunch and said its hard for her to deal with my emotional states... Do I leave the room when I cry?

she still says she is burnt out and doesnt want to try and that its over... but also that she is still in love with me and still loves me. Its my actions that has driven her away.

We are living in the same house (same bed) with our 4 boys ... they have no clue of anything. She has stated that she needs to stay focused for the boys and cannot constantly deal with our issues.


I am doing my best to make the home comfortable and not knowing what to expect when I get home from work.....

It's hard for her to deal with your emotional state, because she is probably having an affair. That is what you need to check on. Advice to you depends on whether or not she is having an affair. I think she is.

Believer is right...have you done anything to find proof of a current A?

My advice doesn't depend on the A, though. I didn't learn it until my own life fell apart, but I see it as a way of life, in addition to a good marriage.

"Without effective/open communication ( with respect) issues are temporarily supressed, not resolved or dealt with appropriately"

Okay, tell me that when you say "issues" are not resolved or dealt with appropriately, that you understand the difference between an issue and a feeling? If your W says, "I feel melancholy." Is that something to be resolved? What would be your choice in dealing with it appropriately?

"Lesson#3: Don't confuse what is felt with what is said... very different... Im having trouble with this one and need to understand it better... HELP!!!"

Hey, I'm confusing to myself...why should you be left out? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Okay, go to the example above. How would feel hearing her state that? Your natural reaction? I pointed out that you seem to react with the belief that you are the cause...what she feels that she says (not you mind or body reading) means what to you?

About Lesson #4...you lost me there. "Find the origin if thge problem" I asked you why you had two As...alcohol is not an answer. You're coming close to this "I guess I was drawn to the fact that someone else was interested in me other than my W." and shying away. You own a lot of your part in the marriage...this is a crucial part to know about yourself. You choose what you did. Your choice. You risked your marriage for admiration and acceptance. They mean that much to you? That would be good to know.

You also say that you have established boundaries to protect yourself from what "would put me back into a precarious situation." I hear a solid awareness of what it took to choose to cheat and you protecting yourself from that. However, I don't here choice. You have to make the choice to be unfaithful. You don't ever have to worry again about cheating when know that nothing on earth can make you do it. Your choice.

Your wife choose to ruin her own integrity in her cause for revenge. That is some important information, sir. She choose to put you in the incredible pain of infidelity so that you would know what she felt. Did you feel that pain? Was her revenge successful? How admired and accepted did you feel from that? Could that be another part of the 94 ONS?

"99 PA After unhappiness from unmet emotional needs and lack of companionship and control issues- my WAKE UP CALL
00 EA after more unmet emotional needs/control issues"

Your wife choose to punish you again for unmet needs? Was she aware of your 94 ONS? Did she explicitly tell you that each time you did not meet her needs she would cheat on you, and you were okay with that?

I was gonna say to your LOA log, that you could respectfully say, "I understand your fear. All choices have consequences" but I'm not going to. The natural and logical consequences you've established in your marriage defy knowing what they could be. Personal and marital boundaries were so broad and varied, no wonder she's scared of making a decision. She chooses from her emotions. Sounds like a rough code to live by. No wonder she looks to tell her what is the right thing to do. Sounds like you buy into that emotionally-ruled life, also. That is a really tough spot, lost.

Lesson #5 "...I cannot fix it alone nor should I attempt to alone." Did I say that? I was emphasizing that you work on yourself. I do that to an extreme. Sorry 'bout that, but it is my truth. What worked for me. Others have some opinions you might want to solicit and listen to--you can't make your wife work on your marriage...and somebody has to! LOL. Sorry. I'm stunned that was what you got from what I said. I really have to work on my clarity. Maybe this is what you believe in your heart? 50/50. Fair Square. Even Steven?

"OPEN COMMUNICATION and focus on what is said and don't read too deep into what is said and come to my own conclusions and assumptions." SAFE communication and attention paid to what your W says, accepting it, repeating it, respecting it--not fixing, defining or interpreting allowed. Do not read at all into anything she says. Period. You don't want to be assumed, dissected and misunderstood, do you? Look at your wife--she's new. You don't know her soul but you can. Accept what she thinks and feels as hers. Not something to fix, please or judge. Just information. Data.

I know you weeded out a lot of lovebusters. You are trying very hard and your efforts are showing. Get to the bottom of disrespectful judgments...that lovebuster creates incredible pain in others and it flies under your radar. Underneath those judgments are disrespectful beliefs. They are old, nearly old as you are. Your W didn't create them, you did, before you knew what beliefs were.

Lesson #6--"When one half of any relationship leaves a GAP or a HOLE in the other half... it will be filled... by you or anyone that fills the void.... DONT LEAVE GAPS OR HOLES in your relationship no matter how small. Fill every one to the top and keep it that way... emotional need are VITAL!"

This is where I differ a tad. I believe that the holes we preceive in ourselves were dug by others, and we gave them the shovels. It is up to us to take away shovels and to accept some of our holes and attempt to fill others in for ourselves. Yes, we're human and have emotional needs--affection, conversation, communication, appreciation, etc. But they are appropriate levels, human levels. As individuals, if you subscribe to the mandate that you must fill every hole and gap in your wife...and they are bottomless, how do you do that? She's fully capable and may even desire to just be acknowledged for her efforts to fill her own. She can only control herself. You can't fix her, grow her or wake her up. All of that IS controlling and manipulative. What you can do is look to your own holes, know and heal yourself, share your experience AND choose your actions from your own code--not what it gets you, but because it is the solidly right thing to do.

Excellent choice on the counselling, lost. Have you done this before?

Just my personal experience thought here--there might not be a current OM...she has used others in violation of herself and your marriage before, and she might only have the mindset that she has to replace you, but has no one specifically in mind. That statement would have smacked me with hurt, and I don't intend it to, lost. This would follow her revenge, manipulation mindset and her understanding the urgings to take charge of her life in a really unhealthy way. Replacement may be what her core belief is...we're all replaceable. You just have to find the prince or the soulmate or the perfect match. That's your obligation to yourself. It is a horrible belief to have, but someone may have taught it to her as a child.

"I can't honestly answer you because I don't know where I will be in my heart and mind.... the way I feel now..."

I'm back to this because it would be good to know if your feelings also dictate your actions. Were you saying this so that she would feel the possible consequences of her hiatus as negative? Was it to manipulate, or was it your truth because you don't have a clear code?

Your own emotional state may be difficult for her to deal with because she believes she is making you feel things. That's a valid threat to her, since you seem to make choices from your feelings--I can be very wrong here about your choices, 'k? But if this might appear to be the case, then her causing you to react in certain ways is a huge burden to her, and you have no control over that belief. If you believe the same way--that her reactions are not within her control, but that you make her choose, react, feel awful or great, then how do you cope with being responsible for your feelings and hers?

Emotional state...the crying, the pain...all that I am saying smacks of me. That was me. And my H. Worst place to put someone is making them fully responsible for something and having no control over anything. I remember.

You're looking for relief and hope. I am fearful that I sound contrary to what you believe. I will respect that you have different beliefs than I do. I am really asking for you to examine yourself and what you are living by.

And Harley believes one person can save the marriage to a great extent. You can fill out the EN questionnaires for you both, examine your LBs and hers...seems like you're doing a lot of this. I notice that your language of love is acts of service, words of affirmation and conversation. I'm curious about hers.

LA

I have dug in the past to expose the A's... I have not dug as I did before, but I have ways of finding out without digging... I have to be patient.... soon. I have a plan that will expose it ( if it exists) in the very near future.

OK.. maybe my wording is wrong... issues/feelings... I'll try to explain this from my perspective.

If she FEELS a certain way, something has caused this... something I have done/not done or said.... This is my view... if Im wrong, set me straight. Im trying to deal with the issues that cause these feelings. Issues may be my behaviors, habbits, ect....

I guess I am reactionary.... After she tells me how she feels... I try to figure out what I have done for this feeling to be present.

Im not trying to FIX her feelings, but the cause of her feeling this way. If she feels hurt because of something I say, I try to figure out the right way to say it, if not at all... is this a bad thing?

This is deep... emotionally-ruled life... I don't know where this would go.... you've have alot of knowledge that you're throwing at me and I highly appreciate it.. thanks. emotions are what I see draws people together or pushes them apart.. for whatever reason. I guess we do have an emotionally-ruled life.... I don't know what else to say on this right now... kinda deep in thought on this...

When I said I cannot fix IT alone... Im talking about me and my issues/feelings of why I do the things I do to make her feel the way she does.... thats why I went to the councelor... to work on ME and ME ALONE.... for now.

I understand that working out our marriage is a 50/50 split and cannot be one-sided. She is burnt and does not want to try at all and still tells me its over and she is 'moving on'. She also expresses the fact that she is worried that her choice COULD be the wrong one. Working on the marriage is not on the agenda right now for her. I have to live with that.

SAFE communication without disection... got it.... just info for me... BUT WHAT DO I DO WITH IT? Throw me a bone here. Information is supposed to be useful, so how do I use this 'data'? Why bring up a feeling... listen... accept it, and do nothing with it? If its a bad feeling, I want to know what making her feel this way! If its an action on my part, I WANT TO KNOW. I may be doing something without knowing it.... ignorance is bliss. I have been down that road... "I don't like guessing... just TELL ME.. please..."

Thanks for seeing that I am trying to remove all the LB from my life.... at least someone sees it. I think the councelling will expose these problems/beliefs/ideals within my life... God I hope so...thanks


I see your point on the holes and gaps... quite a different perspective... thanks....you seem to throw it back on her... SHE IS MAKING THE CHOICE... I see that.. I AM NOT FORCING HER TO MAKE THAT CHOICE.. AM I? I feel ( YES...FEEL) that if I didn't leave gaps, she wouldn't have been vulnerable to accept it from others... is this wrong thinking on my part? I am working on me and not trying to fix her....I cannot fix her... this I know.

She has stated that she doesn't plan on being single long ( we get a D), she wants a stable environment for our kids ( a man in the house, so to speak). Replacement hits home for sure and IT SUCKS! At least she is being honest about that with me. I have to live with this? Man... what a blow to the heart... sigh....

"I can't honestly answer you because I don't know where I will be in my heart and mind.... the way I feel now..."

The reason I said this is truth.. I don't know... Never said it to be threatening in any way. My code right now is to stay committed to this marriage. This she knows, but I cannot stand by and leave my heart be destroyed, while every ounce of love is ripped from my being, leaving me feeling nothing for her. I have to protect that love at some point.

We tried councelling before, but as I said... we never got to the root of the problems and stopped going... neither one of us were into it at that time. Im doing this for ME.. I NEED TO KNOW WHAT IS WRONG WITH ME, IF ANYTHING...

emotional state... hmmm.. wow... Things we do and say tend to create an emotional reaction of one another... good point.. but I think you are correct that we BOTH beleive that what we are doing or saying may be controlling the other person's reaction... THIS HAS TO STOP. I can't cope... I have to stop.... thanks.

I have a question on this.... If your spouse tells you they are hurting because of something you did or said, Would'nt you react out of love (emotion) to 'fix' that so it doesn't happen again? Is this the wrong train of thought?

LA... relief and hope are what keep me in this... too many times over my life I have seen people give up on their marriages over things that could have been worked out IF BOTH AGREE. I have a saying that is near and dear in much of my life... " ITS ALWAYS TOO EARLY TO QUIT."

I have no idea how long I can keep going... I take it day by day in hopes of her changing her mind and seeing changes in me.. I know this takes time. I have not set a timeline, nor do I intend to. I am committed at this point.

Her language of love... toward me? Good question.... We are talking one on one ( undivided attention) daily right now.. last night for 3 hours. We are not talking of fixing things, but rather feelings and frustrations in our life together( comprehending what is being said). We have not talked like this or this meaningful ever as far as I can rmemember. She was very emotional throughout, with tears. We even hugged for extended periods of time during the crying stages. It was very difficult to discussed past problems that were never really talked about, but we did and brought back alot of hurt and pain. I think this was a good thing for us to go through. I am learning alot more than I thought I knew.

I went thru the EN questionaire for both of us (alone).... I am disgusted with myself to be honest. I need fixing is what I got out of it....

Im not a bad person at all, I know this... but I can't help but beat myself up over and over for what I have done/not done.... I just had to get that off my chest....

Just so you know... you are helping me more than you know... I am very greatful.... thank you.....

I think it's a good sign that you are talking more than ever. And also about each of your feelings. You don't have to "fix" anything in one night, but just spending time together, talking, hugging, that has to be a very good thing. I don't know how to help as I am so mired in my own nightmare, but it gives me hope to see there are husbands out there who are as invested in saving their marriage as there are women. Take care, and I'm really hoping the best for you.

Thank you for your kind words....

I think I screwed up.... and maybe should have left things alone with digging to expose a poosible A... sigh

I made a hasty decision on part of my plan to reveal a possible A and it backfired in my face and now she is VERY upset with me....

What I did ( to her ) is take more control.... I didn't see this coming, but nevertheless.... it even looks like control to me. STUPID!!! I should have left things alone and just waited, it would be been much better.

I'll see how things work out with this....

"If your spouse tells you they are hurting because of something you did or said, Would'nt you react out of love (emotion) to 'fix' that so it doesn't happen again?"

If your spouse says "When you interrupt me, I feel unheard." Certainly you fix that...the reason would be that you have consideration in your code; to be considerate of others. Not just the person who doesn't like to be interrupted, but anyone you speak with.

"When you look at me with love in your eyes, I feel disgusted." Now, where in your code does it say you have to have a blank face? Who owns this feeling? Well, the other person does. And they are sharing this feeling with you and you don't necessarily have to fix it (might even be against your code to fake your face), but you hear it and repeat it back. This can be a passing feeling, one from whatever is within the other person--they feel guilt easily, used to hate their mother looking at them with love when they had been lying. Who knows? Is it something you have to fix?

"I find it uncomfortable to talk with you when you're in an emotional state." Probe and clarify, "What does it look like to you?" "When your voice cracks and you sound sad." You gotta fix this? How about, "When I say I'm sad and you begin to cry, then I feel responsible for your tears." Ahhh, now there is something, isn't it? If she is sad, and you can accept that she is without having to be the cause, then no tears, right? She could be sad because her expectations...of herself...haven't been met. Because she thinks of happy times and feels they are over and it is her fault. Many reasons not related to you. Could be they are. The key is--listen and accept. Probe and clarify. Unless she says you have a hand in it, do not take it on as your issue. Compassion says we care what others are feeling, not that we are responsible for them feeling.

Sounds like you guys had a great emotional connection last night...which is just listening to each other's truth about your shared past; what you saw and felt and what she did. Acceptance. Marvelous. Comprehension.

"I need fixing is what I got out of it...." Why do you need fixing? Because you didn't act on what you didn't know back then? You should have known...when you didn't? You're violating your code of respect and acceptance by treating yourself this way. "We did what we knew how, and when we knew better, we did better." Maya Angelou (and yes, most likely I didn't quote her right...rebel in me or senility, take your pick!).

Yes, you can help not beating yourself up. You give yourself license to do that, as if punishment will protect you from screwing up in the future (it won't), then unconsciously, you give yourself permission to punish others. Balance. Intact. Inevitable. Don't do it to you--so you don't do it to others.

I'm so glad you're human and not perfect. You have new information and you're excited, hopeful, energized and yes, not too early to quit. You already know that replacing people doesn't fix problems. Replace one person and the problems come back over time (your wife's theory here is what I'm addressing) because you take with you your inability to communicate, your holes, your enormous needs and beliefs. I believe this is how we recreate our relationships...not just in the choosing of another person. History counts. Years count. Why not make a great life with the person you know well. Works out better for our journeys if we keep seeing our partners as new.

I'm glad you know you're not a bad person. I didn't think so at all. I wish you'd treat yourself like the person you are, which is better, kinder, with more effort and attention--just like you treat your wife. I wish that for everyone.

"but I think you are correct that we BOTH beleive that what we are doing or saying may be controlling the other person's reaction... THIS HAS TO STOP. I can't cope... I have to stop.... thanks." I just see this as a human belief...get down to those inside yourself that were formed a long time ago and are overlooked now, but acted from. See, control means security. You trying to stop her own pain and her yours. Well, control only gets you to accept a disrespectful mindset. She has her power and you have yours; only over yourselves. The more you listen and understand she's not asking you to fix anything, just to hear, the more you honor her power. Same for you. It is freedom and reality.

The other part of losing the fixer/pleaser in yourself is because I view it as abuse. I do. I work with a woman who feels attacked, put down, when I have to correct something she does. I'm not attacking her or calling her stupid--but she hears that in her head. I can't fix that. It triggers me to be extra cautious, sensitive and on eggshells around her. What she hears in her head comes from way back and she brings that into the present. There is nothing to fix/please her. She's new and time alone will show her my intent remains pure--no judgment. When people are used to being judged, they can feel it, even when you're not doing it.

I respect her journey. She'll find her way. The component I play in her life may be small but significant. We'll see. I have to work on the eggshell part. That's my part, under my control. Within an hour of an incident, I sent her an email saying how I felt, using "I" statements. That's what I do when I detect someone has crossed my boundary, tell them. She wrote back why she was rude and that she will not do that in the future. Then I make sure I don't hold a grudge. That's all I do. I do it with my H, my kids...and it is non-judgmental--I don't say they made me angry; I felt anger because my standard of being respectful is in place along side my boundary.

Back to the replacing, which sucks...you don't have to believe it, you know. Not that she won't attempt to replace, or believe differently, but you cannot be replaced. Period. You're unique. God didn't make a single one of us replaceable. Humans believe in that lie, but it doesn't change reality. See how your own belief matters? If you buy into it, you have a lot of pain from your wife's words and belief. If you don't, then it is her belief, not yours...not so much pain, eh?

You're more than welcome. You are the one digging for information. I'm happy to honor your effort and provide what I've learned.

LA

Such words of wisdom, LA... thanks again... you do bring new light to what I see/believe now when I look at things.

The Great connection seems to have done downhil since I made my hasty decision to find out if the A exists....

The wall just got thicker and the 'WHATEVER' attitude is very prominent with her now... I really screwed this up.

sigh.. hopefully things will be ok.... she threw the CONTROL thing in my face and said she was expecting it. I can undo what I did ( wont change the fact I did it) but I may lose the opportunity to expose the A if I reverse it.

What should I do?

I'm sorry, lost...I'm lost. She said you were controlling so that means that if you expose you're just more controlling?

Do you believe it is controlling to expose?

Will you decide from your beliefs or hers?

Also, have you admitted that yes, you were controlling--tell her why you are compelled to do it, your plan for stopping it and how relieved you are for this new knowledge?

She has her truth...you have your truth...the truth that stands alone and seperate is that of our actions--they intertwine us with one another. Those actions can be judged, not as to who the person is, but what they do/did. I'm not going there with the affair portion because others are more qualified. I'll back you all the way in exposure if you believe in the affair. Plain and simple.

Exposure is bringing that seperate truth into the picture, aligning reality. It is not controlling unless you are doing it for leverage, control, manipulation. If you are acting from your code, then expose.

You haven't screwed up anything, Lost. You are a human being. You are full of pure intent. Try not to react to her reactions. Reacting got you here; acting will get you out.

LA

No leverage intended... I just need to know... but I want to hear it from her....

I have told her why I am so controlling and what I am doing to fix it... but that doesnt matter to her.... cux its too late in her eyes and she is moving on.

Im going to keep doing what Im doing.... not reacting to her emotions... HEY!!! IM LEARNING!!!

Yes, you're learning!

How's the pain level?

Would you mind telling me why you were a control freak and what you're doing to change that?

Many, many say it s too late...my H said that. I said that. Didn't mean a thing in the end. What I was saying without the words, "I can't conceive of a better future. I feel worn down and out. All I want is my pain to end. That's why I feel it is too late."

Given that, when my pain stopped and I no longer felt worn down, I changed my mind..."It is never too late to change." So, have hope. Do not believe her beliefs...have your own. She says today that it doesn't matter to her because she feels it is too late." That is a protective belief that can change because it is based on a feeling.

Do you have to hear it from her? Do you have to make someone tell you their truth for it to be truth? Could you not find evidence on your own, the seperate truth of her actions?

I'm proud to know you, Lost. Thank you for posting.

LA

Councelling is initiated to find the root of the control issue....

My thinking from years past:

Since my infidelity... I have been insecure.... protective....... anything to keep my family safe....


"You cant go to school....to get a degree.. to get a job, gain indepenance and leave me!"

WW was very dependant on me in the early years and I grew accustomed to that......took things for granted.....

So you're saying that you became controlling as the result of the infidelity early on?

You didn't control a sibling, a schoolmate, your parents, your dates?

You weren't careful creating your environment, picking your jobs, making sure you were on the best course at all times?

You didn't perceive your life based on comparing it to the lives of others, stories you heard, making sure you did the opposite or the same?

None of that rang any bells?

WW was very dependent...after her affairs, not so much, maybe more controlling or reactive?

See, if you took your W's dependence for granted...then that eased your controller, not that you weren't that way.

LA

I believe that to be the case...

only child.. never a bully... not before I screwed up that I can remember....

no comparison living for me...

The She only became 'independant' with the A.....in a hurtful way...

I took HER for granted... being as dependant as she was, I didnt worry about it ( prior to my screw up)

I see your point.. this could go back prior to marriage, but I don't recall EVER having issues with control in the past... hmmmm

Might be your concept of a bully is what you're tripping over.

I wasn't a bully. I was the peacemaker, the soother, the smoother.

Not a bully. Still...to believe I made peace? Soothed? Smoothed? Lots of control there, don't you think?

Lots of pain when peace wasn't made by me, when someone couldn't be soothed or their lives smoothed over...eh?

Very disrespectful.

Very controlling.

Not a shred of the bully.

LA

I chose to come in here because I too am hanging on a marriage rope with my wife on the other end ready to drop me. It could be a long drop because I've been hanging by this rope for nearly three years...trying with all my heart to win her love back.

Could someone plaase translate all the acronyms? I have deciphered a few of them but, I'm so new that I need someone to decode them for me. Once that is done I could tell my story and that would help to make it short...shorter.

Thanks to all of you.
Si (pronounced "sigh."