My cousin's GF is demanding that, although they are breaking up, he not contact my W any more if he wants to stay friens and doesn't want to leave immediately. I know they are still talking, but I think the reality of the situation is starting to become unavoidable. He is really starting to see that what he is doing is damaging his world now, not just mine, and that continuing it will be a real problem.
She's saying to me "I'm going to lose him and you're going to lose me"; "Do you think I'm going to want to work on our marriage, to have any kind of future after you've done this? You're the one person who's not supposed to hurt me."
I'm just nervous that now she's going to act on this anger and really get going. She's already said that if she had somewhere to go she wouldn't be at home. I don't know how to make sure at this point that once she gets over this pain and anger that I'll be a good guy in her eyes. I know her logic is still really twisted, saying that I was doing this out of pure selfishness, not for our family or marriage. She still doesn't look at the affair from my perspective and thinks I should have just let them have their fun and that she might have just gotten over it and come back to me.

MT - this is normal crapola. More of the same. If she WASN'T saying this, we'd be concerned. OK? So, as counterintuitive as it may seem, take comfort that she's being "normal." This means that everything else ought to follow the pattern pretty much.

She'll be made for awhile, she'll go through withdrawal from the drug, and maybe get depressed. You, on the other hand, are strong, confident (in your marriage) and resolute. You KNOW the sequence of events toward recovery.

You delivered the shock and awe right on que and you just have to ride it out, as per design. Don't agonize over this because it's going according to the script.


We know your best shot: Plan A, no love busters, no disrespectful judgements, no angry outbursts.

Be calm and be supportive. And here's a tough one to do, but very important: validate her pain.

MuddleThrough,

How are you? I hope you come back and give us an update on what's going on. Remember that you are fighting for your marriage, and you cannot believe everything that comes out of you WS mouth. She is angry and humiliated, and is blaming you for her actions. Just stay strong and no LBs.

NOMO

Thanks for your concern. Things seem to be getting better. I validated my wife's feelings because I really saw the deep love she feels, considering that she is so upset about the fact that he is now going through ****** having had to talk to his parents about it and is breaking up with his GF now because of it. This brought us much closer and we have been talking about a lot of things - which of course has put me back into the position of being her primary source of emotional support. His parents seemed to make it clear to him that he is destroying our marriage, and that he doesn't want that on his conscience, regardless of how much he wants her, and he seems to be taking that to heart. They haven't been able to talk much, and now when she gets an email from him she can tell that he has withdrawn emotionally. She's not happy about it, but it does seem that she is really coming to accept that she's going to have to give it up and work on our marriage. She's not allowing herself to make the choice though, going so far as telling him that she's at his mercy, but I think that because she sees him letting go she is starting to focus more on the positives in our marriage and allowing herself to be more in reality. At some point, regardless of whether he decides for her or not, she's going to have to make the decision to let go. So there's hope - and I don't want to pressure her to make the decision too much, I am just trying to be there for her - to fulfill her needs and reassure her that she's going to be happy.
My inlaws talked with us both and gave us a really good feeling about how they see the two of us together and this support really helped us as well. So we quickly went from talking about seperation and divorce to working together and being there for each other - it took all of about a day and a half. This fact shows that our marriage wasn't as bad as some to begin with - not that we don't have problems that we need to address, but through it all we communicated a lot, and we didn't really destroy what was there - though we both are hurt and angry with each other, we've been talking very intimately. So that's where we are - hopefully the A will be over in short order. I know that they will continue to talk for a while, but hopefully they are both coming to accept that it's done and these are the last bouts of hanging on in my wife that I'm seeing.

MuddleThrough,

Just remember the roller coaster. I am glad she confides in you about her feelings, and can see the futility of her affair. Now that his parents and her parents are involved, there are a lot more people trying to protect your marriage.

Hang in there, you are doing a great job. Your wife will be going through withdrawal for a while and will go through mood swings like crazy. One minute she will be optimistic and talking about your future, the next minute she will be pining for the OM and thinking she cannot possibly live without him no matter the consequences. Just hang in there, be strong and no LBs.

You are being incredibly strong and supportive. Another poster that can give you great insight into this whole mess is Bob Pure. Read some of his posts - it will give you hope.

NOMO

Well, it seems we have taken three steps forward and two steps back. There doesn't seem to be any resolution between the two of them to stop, although contact is going to be somewhat limited because OM needs to go through the logistics of the seperation with his GF. My WW is not letting go any, although when she felt it was over she opened up to me a lot. It's amazing to see how she popped out of the fog for a little while when faced with the reality of the situation and now that she's getting some reassurance from the OM that it's not over, she's right back in it.
I haven't been as in control of my own feelings as I'd like to be - she notices this pattern that I get down when she has her hopes up about the prospect of being with him, and vice versa. The thing is that when she gets her hopes up, it's all that's on her mind, and she's complaining about the way his GF is interfering with the situation etc, all stuff that I can't sympathize with in any way. I try to stay positive, and not express anything, but she sees it anyway. She was trying to negotiate with me yesterday about keeping him in her life and making our life together much better - but I told her this was not possible. I think it's clear to her that we can't move forward until she makes the decision to let go. She keeps saying that her feelings are so important, and while I point out that you can't put your feelings at the top of your list of priorities, that your responsibility to your son and everything else are more important, she can't accept that. I know it's all classic, and that I still can't and shouldn't try to reason with her, but I feel like she is or was in this vulnerable place where she started to question herself and if I could get through to her she would give credence to things I said.
Well, at least they are out of the honeymoon stage of their relationship with it being out in the open. They know now that there are people that they care about out there that really don't approve of what they are doing. She's almost cocky that my exposing them didn't destroy them, but it's already starting to have a real effect that she might not realize.
Without any resolution, there's no hope for getting through the withdrawal, as it starts and then stops and starts and stops as the situation changes. I keep telling her that only she can make the decision to get off of it, but she wont, and I can't rely on my cousin to make the right decision either, because clearly he doesn't care - even though his parents gave him some real food for thought. I'm hopeful, and I know this is a long hard fight, but I'm starting to feel emotionally exhausted.

MT,

It might be time to go to Plan B. Your love bank is draining fast, she is fence sitting. As long as she has you both, she will not be willing to give up either of you and continue living the fantasy.

My H often discussed how much he wished he could have us both, and as long as we both put up with his antics, he continued in the affair. When I pulled out and went to Plan B, he realized what needed to be done.

Hang in there, you are doing very well.

NOMO

Thanks - I've thought of plan B but the fact is that we can't afford to seperate. My mother in law says that she won't allow her to stay at her house, and I certainly won't let her stay at home, and have all the comforts of it without me there. My cousin seems to be coming to terms with the fact that he doesn't want to start another relationship on the heels of the one he is dissolving - but he isn't breaking it off either. My WW is getting pressure from all around her and she doesn't have anyone to talk to about it all except him. I can't imagine that it can continue much longer, especially because the lack of emotional support from family and friends is really starting to get to her. But she is stubborn and determined to continue it, and she thinks she can somehow balance the two worlds. I am about ready to start assaulting my cousin with emails - the first to reason with him now that his perspective has changed and the fantasy is not what it was, and then with pictures of my son with captions like: "Please stop destroying my family".

MT, I think it would be an excellent idea to send him an email with a picture of your son with such a caption and CC THE WHOLE FAMILY, especially his parents and your W's parents.

In the email I would state that you don't appreciate his continued affair with a married woman and ask what his intentions are for YOUR WIFE and when you can expect this harrassment of your family to stop?

We had a good talk last night about our relationship. It focused mostly on the problems, but I do feel it was constructive. The thing is that she refuses to cut off contact with my cousin - saying that she can do both. She also says that even if she cuts off contact the feelings will be there, so what's the difference. I told her that it's non-negotiable, that continuing the affair will skew her perspective and that there's nothing constructive that we can do under those circumstances. She calls me selfish - telling me that I need it to be on my terms. That this is for me. I feel that we did do some good in discussing what we did, but I'm not sure that we should continue to talk because it's all done with the skewed reasoning caused by the "feelings". After our 4th anniversary this weekend I'm going to have to start sending emails. I know our weekend isn't going to be what it should, but I think we should celebrate - even if things aren't perfect. I know it doesn't make sense, but that's how I feel. It almost seems silly that I'm doing for my wife while she's doing the opposite. I think this is one of our problems to begin with - she hasn't invested herself in this relationship the way I have. I'm primarily the giver and she the taker. I know that when I give, especially in this situation it's motivated by my love, and it's genuine, so I don't feel like I'm losing anything for doing it - but the fact is that when someone takes and takes without giving in return, you start to respect them less. I don't want this to happen either, so I guess I'm starting to consider a plan B more and more. We can' afford to get another apartment, and we are stuck in the lease for this one for at least another 5 months. The only thing I can think of is to look for a women's shelter to put her in. I feel like this borders on cruelty and I don't want to do it, but there are not a whole lot of other options. Any ideas?

Ok, well the exposure took the wind out of the sails of the A, but there is still daily contact. I know that the fantasy is not at all what it was and my wife is much more willing to examine our issues - even talk to a counselor (which up until now she has been opposed to doing until she decided that she wanted to try to make it work).
I have agreed with her that we have issues in our relationship that set the stage for the affair, and we are going to evaluate them - in fact we've been having talks that seem pretty constructive. My problem is that if this contact is continuing I'm not sure I can feel confident in anything we do. I know that we need to speak with a counselor because my wife can't articulate her feelings, telling me that she can't understand them herself. She seems to come back to the same point over and over about our relationship "the feelings just aren't there". Other than this things are pretty good between us. I've asked her to pick up and try to read HNHN, but I'm not sure how she'll take it. I've printed some of the questionaires and she agrees to trying them. I am in a bind here between wanting to try and improve our relationship without created more strife and wanting this A to be over before we progress. My W is in a very delicate state of mind - she can't talk to anyone because she feels they are all against her, and she feels like she can't lose another person in her life right now. I know these are pretty stupid reasons, but I don't want to bully her or pressure her too much more. Does anyone see any problem with trying to be constructive at this stage?

MT, the best thing you can do right now is a) ruin the affair and b) don't lovebust. You are not in recovery until contact ends and most likely, it will be impossible to meet her needs until that happens.

It is a classic affair symptom to not feel any feelings for the spouse while she is in an affair. Don't let it worry you because it is a direct symptom of the affair that will go away when contact ends. Her feelings will come back once she goes through withdrawal.

Counseling is pretty useless when one spouse is in an affair, so you might not get any use out that. In fact, often counseling can be damaging if you don't geta PRO_marriage counselor. We have had many folks come here who went to a MC that advocated divorce simply because they did not understand the dynamics of adultery.

If you are going to pay for counseling, you might be better off waiting until you actually get to recovery and then, making sure you choose a qualified, pro-marriage counselor.