Sorry, I'm not familiar with all the details of your story.

Have you done Plan B before? If not, then I would suggest a serious Plan B (ask for help from the experts) - if you have kids he moves out TODAY - if there are no kids then you move out TODAY.

If you have done Plan B before, then do a more rigid one, esp. no communication with H until he agrees, signs, and sends an NC letter, etc.

But let him know you heard the convo, accept NO excuses, and do something proactive TODAY.

(((((((((slammed)))))))))))

He is really putting you through the wringer. Not nice at all.

Em

how long in plan a? have you tried a serious negotiations/sit down talk with wh? his theory of the ow just fading away is poppycock. it is feeding the fantasy whether man thinks so or not.

what have professionals said about this? because I see your pov here...the more he talks to her despite his saying he's done, your anger grows. even ifyou're patient loving and kind...i know i'd be seething if he did this...

and it's not respectful for you or your family that he is still in contact with her.

try a serious negotiation...say a romantic date..where you do something special..show him howmuch you love him..but drive home the seriousness of the situation...tell him it is important that if you wwant your m to be saved, he's gotta send the nc and agree FOR LIFE to have nc and end this affair once and for all.

try using medical logic. ask him if his dad was diagnosed with cancer and told that for a 100 percent cure they'd have to give him surgery to remove the diseased area, and then undergo both chemo and radiation to be cured. ask him how'd he feel if his dad said he'd just ask them to remove A LITTLE OF THE TUMOR...and denied radiation and chemo. said that the medicine and surgery will kill most of the cancer, but it will just die off over time...

would that be real? would it work in reality?

heck NO..the cancer would spread slowly and insidiously...and he'd never recover.

that is like this situation. he has to see it like this.

there is a cure for the affair.

and there are rationalizations.

Slammed,

I am so sorry this has happened. I just don't know what to say.

It kind of remeinds me of when my WH came home the first time after he left back in Aug. after a few days he didn't rmemeber saying the words I love you to me or saying he wanted our marriage to work. He said he never said any of it and I was making it all up. Shows how damn foggy they are.

I have no wise words but I do agree with one thing planb sounds like it may be just the thing. You need a break from this madness and let WH dangle in the breeze. I by no means have done a stellar planb thats for sure but it has helped me detach some and makes the days easier. Yeah I still hear nad know to much about him but it still has been good for me.

Take care of yourself and work on getting stronger because your going to need it.....


Hurting

First off he should not be talking to her at all. You are the spouse she is the interloper and your sick spouse better realize that there is only so much a person should put up with. Frankly if I were you I would tell him that he needs to start feeling bad for you not her. That woman made a decision to get involved with someone that was not available, its called reaping what you sow. Furthermore this is his mess, make him clean it up like any parent would do with a child because that is what he is a child. BTW, ripping the band aid off fast has always been preferable to inch by inch. I think spouses that use the "I don't want to be cruel" defense should remember just how cruel they were to their spouse and how their continued involvement is considerably more cruel to their spouse then abruptly breaking it off with the other person. You would be doing everyone a favor ending it abruptly instead you stick everyone in an excruciating state of limbo.

Now that he has been diagnosed he should no longer be allowed to use it as an excuse for bad behavior. Positive strong steps are the only way to deal and allowing things to drag on might be hindering his treatment and he may want that treatment to be hindered. Sounds like he really dose not want this person out of your life. If he did she would be gone already.

BTW, if the OW is harassing you simply call the police or put a call block on your phone and a block on your e-mail. By allowing yourself to be available to this person you have enabled the problem. Just my .02 cents

Thanks to you all for the suggestions and support-

It was a rough day yesterday, but I made it through work,
spent some time with friend, and then had both my IC session
and an appointment with Jennifer last night.

I just let things "be" yesterday with WH.
I called him once during the day to remind him it was my
half-day at work and that I'd be at my counseling session
in the evening. He answered, but said he was in a meeting
and would call me back. Didn't call back until a few hours
later at which time he was at our house, changing clothes
for his volleyball game (he plays on work team). Since I'd
heard him offer to do something with OW and "blow off" his
game, I wondered if he was really going, or if it was just
a cover, but didn't say anything.

My IC went well. My counselor feels like WH is still very
confused, "foggy", and to some degree, addicted to the OW
so is having a very hard time breaking it off. She thought
that his personality as well as emotional/mental issues are
probably making it even harder, because he's been a conflict
avoider all his life, and has a hard time being honest when
someone is going to be hurt, mad, upset, etc.

She also feels like OW is showing herself to be very needy,
clingy, desperate and controlling, sounds like she has some
issues herself, and is also addicted to WH. Sort of like
both are stuck in an un-healthy relationship because both
are co-dependent !

She suggested continuing to be patient, loving and caring
but to back off considerably, giving more space, less
pressure and less questions since that is making WH feel
"smothered" (as he says). Hopefully that will leave him
feeling much more comfortable with me and all the pressure,
questions and badgering will be coming from OW which will
help end whatever the attraction is...
She also suggested I go back to working more on me, staying
busy, doing my own thing, and just observing things right now.

Later, I talked to Jennifer for the first time. She seemed
very understanding of the situation and said she had heard
very similiar scenarios many times. She thought that part of
our problems stemmed from when WH had A previously (2001)
because we did not really follow the "precautions" they
suggest putting in place, and did not ever really get to
the bottom of the issues, so didn't have a way to prevent
it from happening again. (although a large part of it is
related to WH's mental health issues).
She felt in the current situation, that WH is still "foggy",
and is "back and forth"(fence-sitting)and that the addiction
keeps him from being able to see that OW is not, based on
her dramatic actions, a very healthy person.
She feels like OW has shown herself to be just looking "for fun", and some one who will cater to her and spend money on her, and is not going to be in it for the "long run", especially when WH has the added issues with medication management, long- term therapy, upcoming legal issues due to his DUI, and is not going to be all "fun".

She also thought the fact that he turned to me for help,
that I am going to his Dr and counselor appts with him,
and helping with his legal stuff was going to be a big
"deposit" in the lovebank and definitely big points towards
our relationship and not the A.

She suggested that I try to continue with a great Plan A
for awhile longer if I can, realizing this has been going
on a long time and that it is getting harder to control
some of my LB's. She also suggested not "overdoing it",
but being loving, supportive and helpful, not asking much
at all about our R or M, not commenting on or having any
contact at all with OW, and really controlling my LB's.
If there seems to be no improvement, he gets more involved with OW, or moves out alone to his renovation house, then I'll consult her for suggestion on a Plan B and the letter.

Went home feeling a little better last night, and WH was
home, so had not apparently gone out with OW after all.
I made something to eat, watched a little tv, and the little
bit of conversation we had was pleasant. WH got ready for
bed and again slept downstairs in our guest room. I don't
know if this is due to his confusion and wanting to just be
alone, or if he feels some weird "loyalty" to OW and didn't
want to sleep in our bed with me.
I asked if he wanted me to go to his counseling session today, saying either way was fine, I just needed to know so I'd know if I needed to leave work early. (IC and Jennifer said I should continue to go while in Plan A, if WH wants me to.) He said he'd let me know today. I went on to bed
and slept okay since I was really tired and am still
apparently fighting a sinus infection.

This morning we didn't talk much as we got ready for work
(which is usual, as WH is not a "morning" person). I asked
if he wanted his chart and a check for his counseling appt.
and he told me to take it with me, indicating he does want
me to come to his appointment. I guess, in some ways, that
may be a good sign. There also was no mention or talk about
any divorce stuff (he promised OW he'd get right on that)
or about him moving out of the house. From being around
him and things he says, I get the feeling that he is very
confused and doesn't know what he wants, or what to do
and I'm not sure that the new meds he is on are really
doing much to help with his mood and depression, so know
this is going to be a long road....

I'm getting a little nervous about the weekend, since I
overheard him tell OW that they could "do something".
Guess I'll just have to stick to my plan and keep my mouth
shut but that is hard for sure !
Slammed

Slammed,

You are in a very frustrating difficult position, but hang in there. Again, I think your WH knows in his head what is "right" and who is the "good" person here. He knows you are the healthy and strong person, and OW is just there to have fun, nothing more. Yet he can't break it off. Yes, it really sounds like an addiciton.

I have never been addicted to anything, but now I feel I might have been "addicted" to STBXH. I could have been codependent. And who knows, I might still be.

So I don't understand from the conventional "addiction" stand point, since I do not have one, but at the same time, after so many incidents I am still here for STBXH tells me I might be addicted to him, and if that is the case, I guess I understand why it is so hard for your WH to break up with OW completely. Maybe you are very strong and healthy, while OW is clearly not, and WH feels he is the only one who can "help" her? Because he has so many mental issues himself, OW might make him feel "better", as he feels he is healthier and stronger than OW.

But try not to figure him out. I do this all the time myself, but I won't accomplish anything by doing this. I am glad you had a nice IC session and also a talk with Jennifer.

Be strong,
Milk

Well, I don't agree with your IC or (dare I say it?) Jennifer, but maybe they are more aware of the background issues.

He sounds like a cake-eater to me.

You have to do what you feel comfortable with, but I hope your love doesn't burn out doing this extended Plan A.

Em

Thanks Milk and EyeSeeEm-
Today has been such a long, tiring day and I'm feeling
really down tonight. First of all, I feel that the sinus
infection I've had for three weeks is still not gone, and
I'm starting to develop a pain in my chest, so will probably
end up going to the Dr again !

I tried to concentrate at work and did a decent job until
WH called in the late afternoon to verify I was meeting him
at his counseling session. I was a little surprised he still
wanted me to go- but I thought maybe we could talk about
some of these new issues and thought him still wanting me
to go might be a good thing. (Plus both my IC and Jennifer
said I should go unless we are in Plan B). Right after
talking about his appt.however, WH told me he is going skiing this weekend. As I heard him tell OW that they
could do something this weekend and he'd take her anywhere
she wanted to go, I immediately knew he was going with her
and felt just sick. I said, why don't you just tell the
truth and tell me you are going with OW ? He didn't deny
it, just said he wanted to go skiing and was going, and
that was all he needed to say. I said that I just didn't
understand how a week ago he was telling me it was over
with her, he was committed to working on us, and we went
on a trip last weekend, and now a few days later he's
right back with her, lying to me and going on a trip with
her ! I told him I thought we ought to talk about this
situation at his IC and he said that was okay with him.

At his appt. his counselor started to talk about some
different scenarios with couples, and I said there were
some things I thought we should talk about. She told me to
go ahead first, so I told her a brief synopsis of our
situation. WH didn't say alot, but definitely tried to
"flavor" the story to sound like he had tried so hard,
had been unhappy all along but tried to "stick it out",
and that I just wouldn't accept that we had an "unhealthy
relationship" and shouldn't be together.
I tried to explain that WH had said he was unhappy and
discontent at times, but that he always blamed it on me
or the M, rather than even considering that it could be
related to his mental/emotional issues, and that the only
times he had ever expressed these feelings were when he
was involved in A. Talked about feeling hopeful when WH
had recently moved home, swore it was over with OW, wore
his ring again, had me go to his counseling and Dr appt.,
said "ILY" again, and told me he wanted to work on us,
only to have him make a complete turn around in 24 hours
and be back with OW, changing his entire "tune", denying
everything he'd said to me, and back on the "want to be
on my own, "want to be alone", "don't want to be married"
script. Got upset as I talked about how devestating it had
been to try to help and support him with his medical/legal
issues, to try to start believing him again, and then to
find out he'd been still carrying on with OW all along,
and now had "begged" his way back to her good graces.
I knew that his IC would be "neutral" and mostly just listen
and give some guidance on talking, but have to say I was
disappointed in the way she handled things. She didn't say
either of us was wrong or right, but she kind of talked
about WH being entitled to feel however he did, and
my having to accept that, no matter whether it was his
mental/emotional issues, a character flaw, an addiction,
or whatever. Made me feel like, with his warped "fog"
thinking, that would almost give him "justification" for
doing what he wants, and made me feel like she thought I
was wrong for not just accepting his fog B.S. and for
fighting to keep the M. (She didn't say that, but I
just felt like it came across that way.)
Talked about the fact that I'd helped him with his Dr
appts, counseling appts, legal stuff because I cared
about him, knew he needed help and wanted him to get
better, and felt very used that I'd been doing that the
past couple months only to be dumped again for OW.
His IC asked if WH decided he doesn't want to be with me,
if I would want to be friends, and still be willing to
help with those things ? Now, I don't know if I'm just
not thinking clearly, but I can't imagine that anyone
would even think about doing that when someone has
lied, cheated, and is with someone else. To me- that's
part of the price he pays if he loses me and he can
get OW to do it !

Left feeling sad, hurt and drained. Came home and attempted
to eat, but then WH got a call and had to run upstairs to
talk to OW in private. When he came down, I said I thought
he was very disrespectful to be talking to that ***** while
I was sitting downstairs in our own house. Of course, he
was defensive and said he could do "whatever he wanted",
since it is his house too. I couldn't eat, so just came
upstairs and talked to a friend. When WH came upstairs
later, I asked calmly, if we could talk briefly. He acted
exasperated, but said "what ?". Asked him about a couple things he had said, apologized over mis-understanding something he had said, and asked if he was going to move
out into his renovated house when it's done soon >?
He said he was planning to (without me, even though I've
been helping pick out light fixtures, have helped with
color schemes, we talked about where to put furniture,
and planned to move together !!) Then asked him "where
does that leave us", and he just said "he didn't know".

Now at least, he didn't immediately say D, but I sure
don't feel very hopeful. I view him moving to that house
as just a big opportunity for him to be free to talk to
and be with OW, and a huge setback for working things out.
Plus, if he moves there, he'll want to take furniture and
belongings from our house, so we'll have to talk about
splitting things up and that's uncomfortably close to
a step in D direction to me.

While I had gotten used to being alone, taking care of things and having little contact for the months he was out
of the house, I feel very discouraged and depressed thinking
about him moving out again, and knowing he's back with OW
DESPITE all her outrageous actions. I sure don't get the
attraction at all, and apparently he's so addicted that
it doesn't matter what she does- he's still hooked !!
I dread the weekend already, since I'll know he's off with
her skiing (one week after we had a great time in Las Vegas)
and "promising her the moon" while I'm at home.

Despite his promise to her that he'd get the D "taken care
of right away", he's not mentioned anything or done anything
further about it, but I'm going to be nervous everyday,
wondering if her pressure will push him into it, or what
is going to happen.

Guess if/when he does move out, I will use it as the
incentive to go to Plan B, and Jennifer has already told
me she will help with a letter.

I know that I probably sounded and acted clingy and desperate tonight, which I hate. I know I tried to talk to
and get WH to talk, which he hates, so probably some LB's.
Guess if I'm going to follow the suggestions to do a great
Plan A I really better take advantage of the short time I
have before he moves out (1-2 weeks ?)so things are left on
good terms (right ??)

Guess I'll get to bed- then try to go back to prayers and no expectations. It's so hard, especially when I thought
we were past all the mess and on our way to recovery, only
to be back at the beginning again.
Slammed

I think it's time you had some BS fun with his OW babble.

ex:

BS: Hey WS, what r u doing here? Didn't you have something special planned for today/night?

Ws: What? No.

BS: Oh.

WS: Gotta go to the store.

BS: Ok, can you please pick up some (name something nice and naughty).....here's the list: chocolate syrup and some trojans, oh yea and some tampons.

WS: I don't want to pick up trojans. For who?

BS: Hm..... oh, well I can go get those later....just get the rest. Here's some $$.

Look, just because he's making plans, doesn't mean you have to only be hurt. You can use that info to your advantage.
<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

L.

I love the babble, Orchid- thanks ! (need a laugh today)

After the counseling session, talking to friends, the
pure exhaustion of being sick and having all the added stress of the WH's apparently renewed A, I decided I'd
try to "back off", keep to myself and see if I could
regain some momentum. Got ready for work Friday morning
without saying much at all or asking any questions of
WH, and when he left he said he was running late, but
would call me later at work.
WH did call later- was quiet and calm, but not much to
say. Told me he'd be leaving in the mid afternoon for
his ski trip. I said "you do realize that I know you
are going with OW ?" and he said "yes". He went on to
say he felt like he "needed" to do this, as they had
never "finalized" their relationship and he felt like
he couldn't move on without this step. I said I felt
like all a weekend together would do would be to
"fan the flames" of the A, bring them back together,
and create additional problems and issues of her
thinking they were even if it was not his intent.
He disagreed- said it wasn't "like that".
Didn't say much else, since I obviously wasn't going to
change his mind, but felt very disheartened about it all
and the sudden turn of events.

Later, WH called to say he was leaving. I didn't say
much, just asked where he was going and he told me which
ski area. He said he'd be back Sunday, and told me "take
care" before we hung up.

Went home feeling down, since I knew WH was not there.
Was surprised to find that WH had left me a note.
It said basically the same thing- that he felt he "needed"
to do this before he could move on, that it was a step he
had to take before he could proceed, that he hadn't given
up on our marriage but needed to figure out what to do,etc
As I was tired and still feeling sick, I didn't do a
thing- just "vegged" out with the dog and the TV.

Saturday, I worked, ran errands, talked to a friend, and
did things to stay busy. Tried not to, but felt very down
remembering that just a week prior we had been on our trip
and having a good time, and now he was skiing with OW. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

Got up yesterday determined to try to feel good, get some
things done. Tried to think about how I felt, what I thought
had happened, what might be going on with WH and OW, and
re-read parts of "SAA" and "Love Must Be Tough", but instead
of feeling more clear, I just got more confused to the point
I just felt like my head was spinning. Couldn't decide what
to do when WH got home- try to continue with a "Plan A",
ask questions, not ask questions, give the "cold shoulder",
give an ultimatum, give up ??????

WH got home about 5pm, and I still didn't know what to do.
Continued with what I had been doing and just said hello.
WH was sunburnt and looked very tired.
Waited until he unpacked, changed, and had settled and then
decided to carefully approach with a few questions.
I asked if the weekend had accomplished "what he had wanted
from it", as far as "deciding how to proceed, getting his
"finalization". WH said he didn't feel much like talking
(as usual) but that it had helped some and he had things
to think about and decide. Decided to leave it at that
(and didn't figure I was going to get much else from him
anyway). Went on with the evening, not saying much, but
being pleasant. WH got cell phone calls from OW twice,
talking briefly each time. Ended the evening with WH falling asleep on our bed as we were watching a TV movie.
After I got ready for bed and took the dog out, I was
surprised to come up and find WH going to sleep in our bed.
Last week, after the sudden "change of tune" and apparent
attempt to reconcile with OW, he had been sleeping down in
the guest room, which I took as his misplaced loyalty, feeling like he shouldn't sleep in our bed with me when he
was "promising the moon" to OW. Went on to sleep without
comment. Was disappointed to see that WH had lied about
where they had gone. I saw a receipt that showed he was
at a different place than where he'd said. WHY ??

Today, WH slept a little later and still seemed very tired.
His problems with sleeping seem improved, but his mood sure
isn't improving and his thinking certainly isn't clear.
Don't know if it's the OW and A, or partly issues with his
meds and the bipolar disorder too, or both. Just got ready
and left the house without saying too much. Later this
morning, I updated our checkbook and budget and emailed
WH to advise of the March bills and budget update.
(I have always kept our budget and check book and write the
checks to pay all the bills from our joint checking account.
WH's pay goes into his business account, then he transfers
money as needed to checking for the bills and expenses.)
Well, not long after I sent the figure, WH called- fussing
about the amount of misc. spending in Feb, asking what it
was, asking why the amount is so high, etc.??
I said I knew it was higher, read his a list of the items
in question, said I was sorry that I didn't have more income
to contribute. Now I am feeling really bad about this too.
I have always worked, but about 14 months ago lost my long
time job due to change of a govt. contract. My new job is
enjoyable, but makes less. Several times WH has commented
about my smaller income and that I ought to do something
else, although he's never had any idea of "what". I do feel
bad that he pays the bulk of our bills and expense and would
be glad to do something else, just don't know what it'd be.
(I have 20 yrs experience in my current field and it doesn't
really "cross over" to another career path very easily).
I think that WH view this as a negative on me, and sees it
as my not taking initiative or trying to do something else.
I asked, again today, if he had any ideas of something else
I could do since I'd like to contribute more, and he just
said "not my responsibility", which wasn't very helpful or
supportive. Makes me feel like he must think he's just
stuck with supporting me and I kind of feel like it too.
It's kind of touchy for me, as I had my own home which I
had decorated and furnished, a paid-for car, no bills,
traveled, and had everything I needed when I met WH !
Just another thing he can add to the list of "negatives"
about being with me, I guess, too. (OW is a medical sales
person and apparently makes pretty good money).

Tried to think, to the best of my ability, of what is
really going on, and my best "guess" is that WH got
back together with me and moved back home after the DUI
incident in late Dec because he needed the comfort and
security of being home, and with me. I do think the
things he said about being sorry he hurt me, wanting
to work on M, valuing things about me and our M were
sincere (at the time, anyway). But, whether it be
because he wanted to keep the "door open" to get back
together, or because he lacked the ability to totally
cut things off, he kept some contact with OW by phone.

I think he lacked the courage to tell her he wanted
to get back with his W or back in his M because of all
the B.S. he'd told her about how bad it, and me were.
So, he told her he was "soul searching" to decide what
he wanted to do.

While I think her behavior with the constant calls,
nasty calls and messages to me, and the packet she mailed
me were "over the top" and indicate some real instability,
I have to blame WH for part of her behavior because he was
not being honest with her either.

Now, I have no idea what caused the sudden "turn" that
caused WH to deny things he's recently said, recently done,
his committment to working on M, and to try to work his
way back into the "good graces" of OW. From the conversation
I heard between them last week, it sounded like he was
promising to do anything he could to "prove himself", "be an open book", and whatever it took to get back with her,
including saying he would get "right on" divorcing me,
so I view his weekend trip as much more of a reconciliation
that the "finalization" that he says it was.

He has been renovating a house which is supposed to be done
within the next few weeks. While he was "back with me", we
talked about decorating, our furniture, picked out fixtures,
and talked about both moving there together. Now that he has
changed, he is talking about just moving there himself.
It's really upsetting to think about him moving out again
since it just makes his A with OW easier, and would be a
big step backwards for us, but I guess there's nothing I
can really do to prevent it if he wants to go.
My IC has said, "let him", since it's a little easier on me
to not have his A right in my face.
Jennifer from MB suggested doing as good of a Plan A as
possible so if he does move out he'll have good memories
and thoughts of home and me, and then going to a modified
Plan B.
I guess both of those are good ideas, but it's so hard to
feel "beaten down" again, to have my hopes up and then
dashed, and to just not understand why and how WH would go
back with OW after "breaking up". If he'd really, truly
broken it off and had no contact, we'd surely be in a much
better place now, two months later, instead of him going
right back. I just can't understand the "hold" that OW
seems to have on him. Can't understand him going back to
being secretive,dishonest and fogged after a brief "peek" out at the "real world". You'd think it'd be such a
relief !

My IC has suggested backing off, "observing", letting WH move out if he decides he wants to, and just working on me and my own stuff again.
Jennifer at MB suggested doing the best Plan A I can so
if WH moves out he will remember good thoughts of me, being
at home and our M. Then, if he does move out, she suggests
going to a Plan B. Both seem like good ideas but sure are
hard when I'm so worn out from it all, and losing hope that
WH will ever overcome so many problems or be able to get
rid of the OW.

Ideas, thoughts, suggestions, hope ?
Thanks for all your support and prayers too.
Slammed

Make him spend MORE $$ on whatever...yea even the OW, then pull the rug from under him. Mine was just the opposite.... I was the primary income earner during his A and he yelled at me for MY spending? H & OW went on a vacation to Yosemite with room service. Think that was free? Oh....there was more.

My point is once I learned I could stop his spending (A addiction side effect), I could hurry it up but using up his funds and letting him grovel to the OW for $$. Imagine how macho that must look. But the OW liked to see men grovel and so she toyed with him for a while, then demanded her share. She had previously e-mailed me a few months earlier that she was going to make him richer, healthier and happier than he had ever been.

Well..... I wanted my $$$ back and told the WS to go get what I lost due to this A. I asked him what his family was worth $$ wise. He said we were priceless. Good place to start so I started at $1mil.....he said the OW couldn't afford it, so after haggling down a few numbers I settled to $750K, $500K, $250K....yea I kept dragging it out and questioning the 'priceless' statement. Then I threw out the weir $87k figure....why that? hm.... seems like somoene refi'd their home for nears that amount and I could tie our losses up that way. YIKES!!! Yea. That's how she would make him rich.... off of my income.... no way.

I told him to make her pay if wasnted to buy the WS, she was mouthy enough to call me poor and herself rich.

Oh....the figure dropped some more. Eventually landed under 20K. Still she couldn't handle it? Awwhh shucks! Guess she wasn't that rich after all...then I questioned why did he pick such a loser!??!?! That thought stuck in his head and wahla.... I had my foot in their A door....Able to crack it open and show what liars they had to be to make the A viable.

The rest is history...... keep up the reverse babble.

L.

Slammed,

I am so sorry your WH went away with the OW. I just don't understand how he can do what he is to you.

I do feel there is going to come a time real soon when you are going to have to draw that line in the sand.

Keep getting stronger and when the time is right draw that line. Make him feel the real consequences of his choices.

Take Care,

Hurting

Slammed,

I really am sorry to hear all that has been happening to you.

What is your plan Slammed?

You have been supportive for months! I am afraid your WH sees you as taking no action and taking no stance.

Slammed, don't you think now is the perfect time for plan B? I am curious what others think on this, because I think you have been doing this way to long.

Now, that he has gone back to OW, he is basically trying to keep his options open. HE KNOWS that you are available, so he is not even for ONE second worried about you NOT being there for him. OW on the other hand is putting pressure on him, so HE is choosing to see her. He is also playing the field, by dating OW and at the same time being with you. He needs to explore if life with OW could be better then with you BUT he is not about to just leave you! THis is classic CAKE EATING Slammed, and you are letting him. HE just came back from a trip with OW and YOU are understanding. I think your PLAN A is definatley missing the stick!

I really think something has to change to get him of the fence! HE is way too comfortable, because you have prooven yourself to be a saint. I really would question the "observing" strategy. You have been observing FOR MONTHS.

I have been reading your story since Sept Slammed. You have seriously been a Saint, so understanding. But I am afraid your WH is using you.

I really think Plan B is something you should seriously think about

How long will you accept this? He just took of with her for a romantic weekend, and saw no reaction from you. He got home and you were plesant like always. He may just take this one step farther and envite her over to your house.....or something......

I really hope someone wise gives you some imput.......I am not it, but I cannot help but give my 2 cents....

Best to you Slammed!

Daisy

Slammed,
Her is the carrot and stick of Plan A!



Have you exposed this A? Have you let everyone know that THEY are AT IT AGAIN??!!


Directly communicating the hurt and devastation that the affair has caused.

This is the part I always feel is missing in your actions. He does not see just how much his A is hurting you!!!


Standing up to infidelity as a beast that must be slayed for the good of the family.




MY Question to everyone reading this thread.....

[color:"red"] Is it time for Plan B?[/color]

Daisy

Thanks Orchid and Hurting-
Don't know why I keep trying to understand what WH says and
does- I just don't think there is any logic to it, and all
I'm doing is wracking my brains for nothing.

Even though I never would have wished the DUI on WH, I
hoped it would at least serve as the real "wake up call"
that would finally get WH out of the "fog", and getting some
help. I've been so pleased that he's in counseling and under Dr care and really though some progress was being made, but then it all just goes down the drain as soon as
OW is back in the picture again.
Besides the hurt, disappointment and anger over the whole
situation, I am really feeling how weak and cowardly my
WH seems to be, and after always feeling like he was my
"rock", that's truly sad. I am also beginning to wonder if
WH just has too many emotional/mental health problems to
overcome and may never be back to a "normal" person again.
Then again, I also sometimes wonder if I give too much
credit and too much "benefit of the doubt" over those issues
and guess there is no way to really know. WH seems to think
those issues have nothing to do with anything else, so maybe
I should just take that attitude too, and make him fully
responsible for it !

Just a few weeks ago, WH gave me an anniversary card in
which he wrote "thanks for being there for me and believing
in our marriage". I guess I am beginning to lose that belief
when this keeps dragging on and the hurts keep adding up.

You know, at times I feel like WH does want to work things
out and does care about us, but somehow just can't get clear
of all the web of deceit, the OW, the mess he's gotten him-
self in and that makes me sad and frustrated for him BUT
I know he got in the mess and has to get out himself.
I can confidently say I feel like I've been there for him,
showed I love and care, been supportive, tried VERY hard to do everything I can do, but I can't do that for him.

Two other things I that further complicates matters and
and may be having an effect on this are that WH has the
pending legal issues from his DUI and his medical situation.

Related to the DUI:
He has already started doing alcohol classes and community service even before being told to, as his lawyer told him this looks good and shows you are taking "initiative".
He has gotten the letter from the DMV advising that he will lose his license for 90 days but could ask for a hearing, so has requested the hearing. 90 day suspension is the
"standard" but give that this is not his first DUI, he's
been told he will likely lose his license for a longer time. If so, he knows that he will be severely handicapped
by not being able to drive.
When he previously went through this, I had to take and pick him up from work each day, drove him to some out-of-town meetings, and we basically had to go everywhere
together. Kind of nice as far as accountability, but also
really gets to be a nuisance after awhile !
Later, after he got his license back, he had to have a mechanism in the car that required he do a "blow test"
everytime he started the vehicle and therefore, could
not drink.
Finally, when it happened before, he had to spend 30 days
in a "community corrections center" where he could be out
for work each day, but had to spend the night at a center.
While he did this, I picked him up each morning, dropped
him at work, picked him back up and dropped him there at
night. He was the most scared of anytime I've ever known
him and absolutely dreads that he may have to do this again.

On the medical situation:
WH was recently diagnosed as having bipolar disorder and
is under close medical supervision as they try to find the
correct medication and dose to help him. This is a life-
long illness and will require medical supervision forever
in order to be properly maintained and treated. He will also
likely be on medicine forever. Along with the medical
treatment, WH is now in counseling for the issues related
to bipolar, as well as obsessive-compulsive disorder and a
host of issues handed down from his disfuction family.
The counseling is likely to be long-term as well, if WH will
stick with it.

When I think of OW, she seems like she just wants to be with
WH for "fun" and for the things he can provide for her.
She has said she "loves" him, but I can't help but wonder
if her big "love" (after knowing him for all of 6 months)
is going to stick around when he has these continued medical
and counseling appointments, has bad and good days due to
medication, can't drive anywhere and needs a ride, will be
spending much $$$ due to it all, and may even end up doing
night times in "mini-jail" ?? I wonder how much of his
thinking and trying to decide about things has to do with
how he feels she will react or act and whether or not she
will stick by him during all this ?

On the other hand, I have pleaded with WH to get help and am thrilled that he is seeing the Dr and the counselor. I don't mind going with him, participating in counseling, or helping any way I can. I don't mind being there to help with his legal situation to the degree that I can, but I also don't want him to decide to be with just because he
knows I stuck with him before and expects I'll do it again.
I wonder how much of his decision is based on knowing he'll
need help and knowing I would help him ?

Oh, what a mess. I guess for now, I'm just going to try to
back off, do some "Plan A", and see how it goes for a short
time. Since the renovated house is to be done soon, WH may move right over there, and if so, I am going to Plan B.

Hurting- I assume this is what you meant about "drawing the line "??

Orchid- What would be some great babble for my WH's typical
sayings, such as
"I'm trying to end it with OW, but it's just not that easy"
"I need to spend time with her to "finalize" things"
"I don't feel like talking"

Any other thoughts, ideas or suggestions welcome.
Also- can anyone tell me how to change/update my subject
name ?
Thanks,
Slammed

Slammed,

Thats what I meant. I do feel planb is on the horizon for you. You need the break and he needs to see what it will be like without you.

I truly believe it will be hard for yor WH not have contact with you. It just may be what the dr. ordered. But one thing for sure it will save your heart and love for him....


Hurting

All of that is pure babble. Mine said the same thing and the A went on for another 2 more years. Yea right.....

That is why you don't 'assume' his definitions.

1. WS: End it w/OW.
BS: End what?

2. WS: Spend time w/OW.
BS: T/d what?

3. WS: Finalize things
BS: Finalize what?

4. WS: Don't feel like talking
BS: Talking about what?!?!?


See you don't assume.....the WS' expect you to assume. In fact some OPs and WS' plan and rehearse their lines to the BS. Yep....that's how they make their memories..... didn't realize u were such a hot topic of conversation, eh?!??!?! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />

L.

Thanks Hurting-
I do think Plan B will be very hard for my WH, as he has always kept contact with me, even back when he was living
with OW, and when he was staying at his rented room.
I don't think we ever went more than one day without him
calling to say he "was just touching base", to ask about
the dog, etc. but with no real reason to call.
My IC has suggested this is "I back off, he moves forward"
(she calls "push-pull") is very consistent with his addictive personality and may be related to obsessive-
compulsive disorder. Unfortunately, I also think it has
contributed to him keeping in touch with OW. (And she seems
to be very obsessive,so maybe that's their connection !

Orchid-
Thanks for the ideas. WH is definitely full of "babble"
(and that's not all he's full of <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
I'll give it a try.

I guess while we're still in the same house and he says he's
in this "deciding" mode (also known as fence-sitting) I'll
try to continue with the best Plan A I can, although I need
to back off some to save my own sanity. Will try to be calm,
polite and friendly without "overdoing", and will try hard
not to ask questions or have "R" talk. That in itself should really surprise WH ! (and perhaps it'll make him
wonder). Any other thoughts ?

Thanks for the support.
Slammed

orchid is awesome..

when they say something just say "about what?"

ask an OPEN ENDED QUESTION AND MAKE THE WS ANSWER IT...so they see that they're not fooling you.

I agree plan b is looming...sorry to say it.

Thanks, Daisy. I had missed your post.
I am getting to the point where I think Plan B is about the
only choice left.
I have been loving, caring, supportive and done all I could to help WH. He knows from my "past record" that I would care, help and be supportive again. I think I've been too
lenient- perhaps putting too much weight on his emotional
and mental issues instead of expecting him to take the
responsibility for his actions.

I feel like I have done a good job of the "carrot" part of
Plan A, and am trying hard to go more to the "stick " of
the plan. I am so worn out from all this and am starting to
really feel my patience and determination wear thin, so I
think going back to seperate lives would be much easier.

I think it'd be very hard to do Plan B while in the same
house, so was planning towards his move to his new place
as my "jump" to the new plan. Unfortunately, I don't have
the money to get a place of my own and hate that I am very
dependent on WH for support at this point, because I think
it would help things greatly if I could do my own thing.
Will have to think about how to work that in Plan B.

As far as your other questions-
Don't know anyone to expose to- my family and friend already
know and support me 100 percent. OW is single, so no spouse
to expose to. She just moved her from out of state, but I
don't know where or I could try to get to her parents.
WH's family haven't called me since before Thanksgiving when
his daughter told his Mom that WH wasn't living at home
anymore. I know they don't condone his actions, but his Mom
is so "ga ga" over everything he does that she would never
dispute him or do anything about it. They don't work together so exposing at the job wouldn't help.

On letting him know the hurt and devestation the A has
caused:
I'm not sure how to go about this, but have directly talked
to WH until I'm blue in the face. Have let him know I'm
hurt, angry, disappointed. Have let him know I believe in
him, us, changes to improve the M, and doing all I can to
make it happen. Have directly confronted on things I've known to be true (such as the ski trip). I know that WH
is aware of how I feel as he told me "he was sorry he had
hurt me", has thanked me for my help and support recently,
and has talked about it in counseling, but it hasn't stopped
him from continuing his hurting behavior.
Any ideas on other ways to get this message across ?

Any ideas from anyone on anything else I should do until
going to Plan B ?
Slammed