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fill the house with people this weekend...so if and when he comes over you are distracted and he is IN THE WAY
write your plan B letter
and next Tuesday BAM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
[color:"purple"] BAM BAM BAM!!!!!!!! [/color]
ANSWERS AND TALKS TO THE OW IN FRONT OF YOU...
OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOHHHHHHHH HE'S GONNA FEEL THE CONSEQUENCES OF THOSE ACTIONS...
and you...
ARE going to feel FREEEEEEEEDOM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! from such insanity....
hope he kisses that puppy this weekend...cause it's going to be a looooong time.....mention to him this weekend he can get his own dog....
ARK^^
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Said I hadn't "closed the door" on our marriage and still felt we could make significant changes leading to a very happy and satisfying marriage for us both, and a "fresh start", but only if A was completely and permanently over with and WH was willing to put 100 percent effort into M. Good for you, Slammed..in openly bringing up the affair..I'm frustrated with this counselor for not addressing this.. Wh talked about feeling like he was always "safe and stable" in our M, but that he didn't always want to feel safe and stable. IC suggested he ought to "explore" the reasons why he didn't desire safety and security since those were normal needs that most people would want. Continued frustration with this counselor..this is the nature of an A..he is addicted to this fantasy life..the HIGH that it gives him..this is not a normal relationship, Slammed..don't try to compare this to a normal, healthy relationship..it is not comparable..your WH sounds like the typical WH..bad part about it is that he is "open" about this with you and his counselor and the counselor is not addressing how destructive and unhealthy this is.."EXPLORE... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />" but also didn't feel like I should have to lose money to pay for his big credit card bills and expenses he accrued because of his A and the new house ! I know his reason for wanting to sell the lot now (after insisting we wouldn't sell it) is because he's run up big credit card bills, and is strapped for money, and he did come out and say he wanted to sell because he needed the money to pay off his credit cards. Agreed..it's like you are paying for him to wine and dine the OW..see the self-destructive pattern of As..leading to financial ruin...you might qualify for SPOUSAL SUPPORT..I did in my state since my income was less than my H's..Make sure to PROTECT YOURSELF financially now so that the OW will not gain from you..they want to have their fun now.. and so that HE WILL SUFFER the consequences of his actions...Sounds like you really need to consult a lawyer before agreeing to anything with him now. Probably dumb, but it really bugged me to know that he must talk to her about our financial situation and issues, and that she knows ANYthing about me or us ! This is why PLAN B is necessary for you, Slammed. This is too hurtful and disrespectful of you. It will drain your love bank... A good part of this is that she will likely LB during PLAN B and will be unhappy about them not being able to wine and dine... I recommend again that you make sure to consult a lawyer..don't be agreeable to what he is asking you to do financially until then..Unfortunately and sad to say, given that he is a WH, trying to BINGE off of the OW at this point..he will outright lie to you and he will be deceitful..he is not to be trusted..I guess you know this... So sorry that you have to go through this...this is all so awful....
I made it happen..a joyful life..filled with peace, contentment, happiness and fabulocity.
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slammed...
this is not marriage building advice... but I would love it if you would arrange to have a friend call on YOUR cell phone from a pay phone or an unknown number....while your husband is there this weekend and for him to hear this...
hello.. Oh hi no I'm really glad you called... No it's fine... uh huh yes... oh that was very funny... just wait till next time... I'm sure I'll win... no no YES!! I TOLD YOU THAT ABOUT ME... Yes I was right... too funny!!! (lower your voice here...) no here's here now uh huh huh uh laugh laugh laugh I KNOW!!!! yes you were right!!! see I will tell you when you are right...
yes they are and what exactly is your payment for setting mouse traps.. really?? does your price include dessert...? really... hhmmmmmmmmmm oh I see.....
no we should do that... I would adore doing that... good uh huh no I don't have any plans.... nope.. that'd be great...
OK YEP do you want to call me or do you want me to call you.. OK good great. hey.. bye Ok I'll hang up first... bye!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
do it slammed.... do it... get a girl friend to help you out....and take a call alluding to that in front of his sad sad face....
do it....
do it!!!!!!!!!! do the hair flip do the girly giggle.... do it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
oh gosh that's soooo not marriage building advice.. and it's a little dramatic... but it's priceless as well...
what do you think.. how are your acting skills
ARK
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ark:
I know that you said that it was not MB advice...and I love this whole scenario..I love your ideas..
BUT..I have this question...for clarity's sake...
You know me..JOSIE MB'S..that I am....
Her WH has just flown the coop..he is HIGH and EXCITED about his newfound freedom with OW..he just might be at the point where he wants to find a JUSTIFICATION for being out there.."She's doing it..it's really OK for me to be doing it, too".. Plus, will it take away the FORCE of the PLB Letter?..She's really writing this to be FREE to play, too..
IT'S ALL ABOUT THE TIMING OF THIS...WHAT DO YOU THINK?
Josie MBers..tipping off into the sunset...
<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />
I made it happen..a joyful life..filled with peace, contentment, happiness and fabulocity.
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well....there is some concern that mr wonderless-slammed is looking for his out.... and would find comfort in the thought that she's "moving on"....
I think in the risk of things it is LOW LOW LOW...
see he has moved out before... but he kept his contact with her close steady and intrusive... that's all gonna stop... his not knowing is going to K I L L him...
I infact expect some escalation of bad bad behaviors.. him showing up him demanding to be seen and heard...
so really what is there to lose.. this guy isn't processing rationally.. he believes he can have them both in his life...
so he's not gonna get both... AND a huge seed is planted....
he's flown before...he expect status quo..that territory is not new.... what going to be new is not having slammed...
HIS OW IS A PIG>>>>SHE CALLS THE HOME OF HIS WIFE>>>> HE IS WELCOME TO SUCH PATHETIC SCUM... those two are going to go INSANE wondering about slammed...
I expect stalking I see locks being changed the day plan B is sent
let him feel to his core what it is like to get a phone call like he does over and over and over and over... it will get his attention...
and if he's driving illegally... I say wait a bit after plan B letter is sent... and call the POLICE
ARK
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ark:
You are TOOO FUNNY!!
And probably, unfortunately, RIGHT ON TARGET!!
<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
I made it happen..a joyful life..filled with peace, contentment, happiness and fabulocity.
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Thanks to you all- I really do appreciate all your support and great ideas ,"devious" ones included <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
Daisy- You're right about WH being quite comfortable on "the fence". I think his new house must be on there !! I will work on the PBL this weekend so I can run it past the gang here and get it "just right".
Ark~ I will definitely be "busy" this weekend, and have my "props" ready, such as a bottle of wine and TWO glasses, some movie stubs, real estate listings, etc. Maybe I'll even print up some out-of-state job listings with my company ! (he knows I like California.....) My acting skills are not as good as my "snooping", but I think I can do a pretty good job. It's kind of funny that he "let down his guard" to answer the phone in front of me last night after all his denial and protesting that there's nothing going on with OW... or does he really think I can't figure that out !!? (or is it just that now he's out of our house, he doesn't care)
Mimi- I definitely have been very "forthright" with talking about the A, and letting it be known that I don't buy into his story in front of the IC. I think she seems like she definitely understands more and sees through more than she necessarily says. I agree that it's the "high" of the A with OW that is more appealing to him (right now) than the safety and security of a real relationship, and this is the addict in him talking. I have consulted with a laywer a couple times, and they did say I might qualify for "spousal support" if we D, although if I do, it would be for two years, max. I am just really frustrated with my "formerly" leveled headed, financially stable, conservative banker H for becoming so reckless with his spending and then trying to get me to help bail him out ! I'm sure part of this has been the typical "MLC" need to have "bigger, better, newer", and part has been very typical of bipolar behavior (lack of "impulse control") but it's also been the A, fogging all the logic he used to have ! Since he "met" OW on a website called "Millionaire Match", you can get the picture !!
He has been good about paying the bulk of our expenses and bills since I started to make less money, and I've always given him some credit for that, but now that he's getting more "strapped" for money, choking on bills, and needs/wants things for that new house, he is "changing his tune". I have seen a noticeable reduction in his spending and any new credit card charges lately, but the pressure may be on with OW, since he has to keep up his "image". (And of course, I'm just the "doesn't contribute anything, wants to stay with WH to "sponge" off him, "can't support myself" wife- all in OW's words). I will be consulting the lawyer again before coming to an agreement on this lot sale, and certainly will be talking to them much more if we proceed to D.
I sure think the phone calls last night must have been BIG LB's for both WH and OW ?? Yet, I'm sure by now, they have probably smoothed it all over and made big weekend plans. That, I just don't get !!?? Seems like WH plays reverse roles with OW and me- him being "in charge and control" with me, but "like a puppet on a string" with OW ! One thing for sure, I don't think OW feels totally trusting or convinced about WH and I. She knows, straight from me, that I love my H and want to restore our M, so must have some doubts about all the B.S. that WH tells her ? Also, if she felt so secure, would she call him so often, asking where he is, what he's doing, etc..... ???? She still has a lot of power though, and I'm sure part of his rush to move was pressure from her. Makes me fear that the next thing will be D, because she'll really be pushing. Even though selling the land is more for financial benefit right now, it makes me feel like it's just another peice of "us" that's going away, along with our home together.
Mixed feelings and tired as I go into the weekend... Slammed
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Seems like WH plays reverse roles with OW and me- him being "in charge and control" with me, but "like a puppet on a string" with OW ! He's addicted to her, Slammed. That is the explanation for how he treats both of you. Plan B..and darkness..is the answer for you now...
I made it happen..a joyful life..filled with peace, contentment, happiness and fabulocity.
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Slammed, you’ve gotta love Ark's idea! Can you imagine how shocked your WH would be??
Well, I am not good at acting, so I personally won't be able to do this, but do remember last summer the similar thing happened accidentally. My BIL (H's own brother) called while H was in the house, and since he wanted to ask about the situation between H and me, I felt uncomfortable and said something like "yeah, I know, but maybe we can talk about that later - okay, I will call you later". H asked me if I met "someone". Which I thought was interesting, as he was soooooo determined to get D, yet wanted to know if I had met someone???
Your WH openly admitted that he always felt "safe and stable" with you. He openly admitted that it is "easy" to go back to his M with you. He is totally taking you for granted! Time for Plan B, Slammed.... Or the little shocking act in front of him.... either way, there has to be something that will change his belief that you will always be there waiting for him.
Milk
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Slammed:
I have some feedback for you...
I think part of your WH's GAME is to get you and others focused on his PSYCHOLOGICAL ISSUES...
You talk about his issues a lot...I noticed that over on Daisy's thread..I keep noticing that pattern...
Slammed, your WH fits the pattern of other WHs. He is no different. Regardless of whether he is having a MLC or not..my H did..he is ADDICTED to the OW and wanting to be out there to play with her...
THE PLAN needs to be the same regardless of his underlying issues or what his childhood was like...Sorry..I understand you wanting to make sense of this. I remember those days. But how is that going to really HELP to bring an end to his affair?
How are you coming along with your PLAN B LETTER?
I made it happen..a joyful life..filled with peace, contentment, happiness and fabulocity.
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did you write a plan b letter yet.. I bumped my favorite for you
ark
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How are you doing Slammed?
Milk
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Any progress on your plan B letter?
Milk
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Thanks everyone, for checking on me and your replies. Didn't get a chance to get on the boards last week ,as our internet access at work has been limited, and the computer was not yet set up at home, since things were in a bit of a mess since WH moved out.
Hadn't gotten a chance to reply to your last message, Mimi, but wanted to say I totally agree with you as far as my WH being just like the other WS's, and the A being totally his choice and responsibility, regardless of his upbringing, emotional/mental issues, etc. I guess I try to analyze some of his family issues, and the psychological aspects of some of what he does and says as a way to try to help me understand how/why he is as he is, and what may have led him to start the A,although I realize that all I can do , at best, is speculation. I know that the MB principles indicate that most WS tend to get into an A due to low balances in their love banks or the lack of some EN's being met, but seems as though I've read here (or is in in a Harley book ??) that the reasons MB isn't always advocated for those with addictions/mental issues is because they don't fit into this group (their EN's are being met, but they have a defect in "character"). In that case, I wondered what it was that led WH to make the decision to get involved in A, whether it be family issues, addictions, MLC, etc. WH himself, totally denies that his psychological issues have anything to do with his being unhappy or discontent or could have contributed at all to his A, and of course he totally denies that he has any addictions at all. Whether he really believes those things, or just doesn't want to accept/admit it, I don't know ~
An update ~ Spent most of last weekend (a week ago) trying to get the house put back into some order since WH moved out. He had brought the old bedroom furniture up from the basement and garage but I had a big job in setting up the waterbed, filling it only to find out the old mattress was ruined, draining it and having to buy another, then filling it, and re-arranging furniture in several rooms to replace items he took. WH called Sat. morning, then came over twice during the day to get more of his clothes and things. Offered to come back Sun to help with the furniture and set mouse traps but then never showed up or called, so I assumed he got too busy with OW ! (and I didn't really need his help, just was annoyed he made a big deal of coming to help, then didn't show). On an interesting note, I was exhausted Sat night, and just wanted to relax and watch a movie. Turned on TV, and the movie "Unfaithful" was just coming on. Have seen only bits of it before, but this time I watched the whole thing, and although it was very sad, I found it interesting in the way it portrayed an A happening in a an apparently "happy" M, and the guilt and sadness felt by the WS. The ending was a shock, but reminded me of what a "path of destruction" an A really is. Overall, I thought it was a well done film, and had a beautiful music soundtrack.
Started out last week feeling very physically tired after all the moving furniture and dealing with getting things in better shape at home, then had a very busy and stressful work week. Talked some more with WH, and contemplated the opportunity we had to sell our peice of land, and how to settle the money. Went for a consultation with the same lawyer I spoke to several months ago and got some good information regarding that issue and some things in general. Did find out that a "stipulation" signed by both WH and I, and notarized, would be "legal and binding" in regards to settlement over the land sale. With that in mind, I am writing up an agreement that this sale of land and the money split will permanently "settle" all issue of "marital debt" as far as all credit cards (did this so WH cannot go out and run up more big bills, then later try to say they are "marital debts" and me be liable for part of them). Also am adding that the car (although in both our names) will be paid off, considered by property, and not a "marital asset" that WH can try to get later. WH is aware of these plans and has verbally agreed, and agrees he will sign the paperwork, so that makes me feel better about that deal. One thing I found out had me a little confused on how it will work with my "Plan B", as found out I cannot change the locks on our house without advising WH, and then must give him the new keys if he wants them. Also felt discouraged to find out that if WH begins to balk about paying his part towards our house and related bills, that I have no way to keep from having to put it up for sale, since I can't afford the bills alone. Sure doesn't seem very fair that he can "decide" he doesn't want to live there, move to a nice, newly renovated house with all new, nice things, and I'd have to move to a smaller, less nice place since I don't make as much <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> (although I do realize it's my own doing that I'm in a lower paying career field, and WH's credit that he is doing well in his career and pay).
Went to WH's Dr appt. which was "short and sweet". As his mood is still "down" (on the "bipolar scale") his Dr. upped his dose of anti-depressant, which he takes along with his bipolar meds. They discussed his legal issues, as Dr is, at request of WH's lawyer, writing a letter explaining WH's recent diagnosis, how this illness could lead to his lack of judgement resulting in the DUI, and the Dr.s belief that he does not have a drinking problem, as well as stating that he must remain on medication and continue counseling.
Also went to WH's IC (since not yet on Plan B) and his IC started out discussing how he is feeling, how he's doing with his meds, how's he's handling the legal situation. Although WH has not mentioned anything about it lately, it sounded like he is getting really worried and scared, and like the possibly outcome in court may not be as good as he originally thought. Hard to know how it would go, but apparently now the options may be either having to do 30 days of "work release" where he would have to stay in jail at night, but could go to his job in the day, or 45 days of community service, where he has to work "full time", doing community jobs but can be home at night. He is scared to death about going to jail, so likes the other option better, but would have to be off from his job, and don't know how he'd do that for 45 days ! I think he's scared he'll lose his job, and that scares me too, since our finances are all linked, and he has the much bigger income and our insurance ! His IC only briefly touched on us, but WH still continued with his "needs to be alone, on his own" speech, saying it had been very nice to just be "alone" at the house, and fun for him to do things like going to the grocery store or just being able to pick out new towels by himself. Whatever !!!! I maintained that all the things he's said he can't do "married" are all things he CAN do in marriage, ALL but screw around (which of course, he didn't mention, but IS doing). Said he didn't know if there was some "magic" number on how long someone should wait, but didn't think "dragging things out" was "healthy" (please !) for him or me, and kept us both from getting on with our lives. I said, "of course you're in a hurry, you have a OW who is pushing you to get divorced". He denied that, saying "if there really was that pressure, we'd already be divorced". (since paperwork we filled out in Aug has recently expired). Was glad that IC then stepped in, said it was much too important of an issue to "rush", and asked WH if he didn't think he could have some seperation while working on our seperate issues, but not sever anything. She suggested a "therapeutic seperation" where both partners work on their issues and take their own "path of healing , but maintain some contact and interaction with the other partner (????) Some of her explanation of this made sense, as it sounded kind of like the concept we know of, of saving the love we still have for the WS, while protecting ourself. She also said she thought WH's always saying he "didn't need anyone" (either OW or me) was taking his attitude to an extreme in the opposite direction and not healthy- as he needs to develop interests, friends, be involved in the community, develop some support, etc. while it sounded like I had good support "mechanisms" already in place. She also said he seemed to be "co-dependent", and that wasn't healthy either. She mentioned that we seemed to be quite calm and pleasant in our discussions, and she guessed that was because we were there with her. When we both said, "no, that we never have been ones to fight or yell, and this is about as heated as it gets and the most talking that we do about things is here" she was surprised. (???)
When done, WH and I walked to his car and his phone was ringing. Figured it was OW, "checking up on him", but he saw it was his Mom, so answered, and gestured for me to stay there. Found out his Dad is again in the hospital, and not doing very well, so his Mom was very upset and anxious. (His Dad was hospitalized for over a month with pneumonia, blood clots, then internal bleeding and was in critical condition for several days in Feb, but had been making a slow recovery before having a breathing problem and being back in the hospital a couple days last month. Now he's apparently having blood clots again.) Although he's not particularly close to his family, WH did seem upset. WH has also been having a problem with swelling and pain in his foot and is going to the Dr today about it.
Later in the week, I had my IC. Hadn't had a chance to do much on my PBL, but took one of the examples from here and the very rough draft I had as IC had said we could discuss it. Once we started talking about WH's still being "down" in mood, his Dad being back in the hospital, and his his upcoming legal stuff/court date (April 25), IC wondered if using the "tough love/180" plan would be better than a full "Plan B" and no contact ? Her concern was that with WH already battling depression and the added issues with his Dad being seriously ill and his legal stuff/court date coming soon (April 25) that it might be "too much,too soon" and really put him into a bad mental state. I feel torn about this- do have concern over him getting into a terrible depression and anxiety like he did right after the DUI, which caused him to desire me, our M, the safety and comfort of home, and really "turned off" OW, VS. letting him feel horrible and seeing that OW might not "cut it". (although I don't know- maybe she would be fine at "babying" him). I wonder if he did turn to me, if that would be enough to finally, permanently end it with OW and the A, as she might not think it was too "fun" to deal with giving a ride to WH, him being in jail or on work release, him having to spend more money on that stuff than on her, etc.... ??? Feel confused, as both IC's gave me some new thoughts and I'm not sure what to think.... is there too much going on and too close to the court date for Plan B ? Will it backfire on me and make OW into the "hero" he'll never want to leave because she was "there" during his crisis, should I do the "tough love letter" (similiar to PBL) and much stronger "180's" (or not good since he has a strong need for "admiration")?? In the meantime, will continue to work on PBL, and hope to have a draft to post soon, in case that's still the route to take...
Lastly, the weekend was okay, but long. WH called me Sat morning (I worked half day) and said "didn't you mention you wanted to go look for a new TV stand, or little desk?" This made me think he was going to offer to go with me or ask me to go shopping, but instead, when I said I had said that, but not had a chance to go looking yet, he just said "well, if you find something you like, go ahead and get it". Made me think he was having some sort of a guilt pang about some of the furniture he took, or about getting more of the lot money, so was trying to sound more generous. Well, didn't go furniture shopping, but did run errands and enjoy some shopping later. When I got home, I noticed a blank spot in the garage where WH's golf clubs used to be, and got worried that someone might have taken them while I had the garage door up (this has happened in our area) so I called WH in the later afternoon. Wasn't surprised to get VM on his cell, since I think WH is usually out on "date night" with OW every Sat., but was surprised when he called back in just a few minutes. Made it really short, just asked if he had taken his clubs, and he said yes, so that was it. He asked what I was doing, and said he had been out "running errands" and working on the house all day.
Yesterday, WH called in the morning. Asked what I was doing, asked about the dog, then asked if I wanted to go to dinner. Was surprised, as we've not ever done something on Sunday. Said he'd call me later to "firm up" the plans, then went about with my plans for the day. About 5pm, WH called. Asked me if I'd mind if we met tonight or another night this week instead. I didn't care, but the way he was talking sounded really odd and rushed, , as though he was trying to sound like he was talking to a customer or something. Made me think that OW was probably there, or nearby, that he had not expected to be with her for the evening and had to try to call to change plans with me. Got cut off, so I called him back and he answered, and I heard a female in the background say "is that her?", so I'm sure he was with OW and must have told her we had business to do (the lot sale paperwork) or something...so tried to make it sound very "business like". How lame...
Slammed
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slammed,
Go with Plan B. Your H is openely saying he is happy where he is. He doesn't want to be with you. IT is time for you to cut the string.....We want him to suffer as well. Plan B, it is time. That is tough love now.
You have done it all. Plan Aed your heart out. Now, it is time for the next step. I don't know about 180 for you.....it may just confuse him. I think Plan B is better, because you will send a letter that clearly states your position. HE will know where you stand. THat enough is enough, and that NC with OW needs to start!
Please stay the course slammed. I know it is hard, but Plan B is the way to go......
Best to you Daisy
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Slammed: I really want to encourage you to buy into and implement the MB Plans. A lot of your point of view in the post indicates that you do not believe in this system. Bear with me, if you know me at all, I am a strong advocate of the MB Approach.... I guess I try to analyze some of his family issues, and the psychological aspects of some of what he does and says as a way to try to help me understand how/why he is as he is, and what may have led him to start the A, If you believe that your WH is no different than any other WS, he is addicted to the OW..period. Interesting that you mention the film UNFAITHFUL. I think it demonstrates this well. She got caught up in the FEELING/HIGH that the OM gave her. My FWH has a slew of unresolved psychological issues. So do I. So do alot of people. However, I think what's important about an A is BREAKING THE ADDICTION regardless of the underlying causes. I wondered what it was that led WH to make the decision to get involved in A, whether it be family issues, addictions, MLC, etc. Let's say you figured all this out. How will this help you reconcile your marriage? What will help is for you to do PLAN B now... WH himself, totally denies that his psychological issues have anything to do with his being unhappy or discontent or could have contributed at all to his A, and of course he totally denies that he has any addictions at all. Whether he really believes those things, or just doesn't want to accept/admit it, I don't know ~ Focus needs to be on you, Slammed. He is a FOGGY WH..he will lie..he will be deceitful..he will not make sense. One thing I found out had me a little confused on how it will work with my "Plan B", as found out I cannot change the locks on our house without advising WH, and then must give him the new keys if he wants them. Also felt discouraged to find out that if WH begins to balk about paying his part towards our house and related bills, that I have no way to keep from having to put it up for sale, since I can't afford the bills alone. Sure doesn't seem very fair that he can "decide" he doesn't want to live there, move to a nice, newly renovated house with all new, nice things, and I'd have to move to a smaller, less nice place since I don't make as much (although I do realize it's my own doing that I'm in a lower paying career field, and WH's credit that he is doing well in his career and pay). Well advise your H that you are changing the locks then. Why would he want to come over since he has his new house. I still don't understand why his new house is not considered half yours but the house that you now live in is half his? How is this explained legally? During my Plan B, I chose to put our house up for sale and was accepting of my need to move into a smaller house suitable for just myself. I didn't mind. It was worth it to me to get out of that house. It's all in how you perceive things... but WH still continued with his "needs to be alone, on his own" speech, saying it had been very nice to just be "alone" at the house, and fun for him to do things like going to the grocery store or just being able to pick out new towels by himself. He was lying through his teeth. Sorry, Slammed. He most likely is "playing house" with the OW. I said, "of course you're in a hurry, you have a OW who is pushing you to get divorced". Great, Slammed. Too bad you aren't getting paid for doing the counseling. I can't see how that counselor is being helpful to allow him to go on and on with such BULL CRAP without calling him on this..I wonder what Steve Harley would have to say to him? She suggested a "therapeutic seperation" where both partners work on their issues and take their own "path of healing , but maintain some contact and interaction with the other partner (????) So definitely NOT a PRO-MARRIAGE counselor. This is BULL..Path to healing while he continues with an A with the OW? This counselor seems clueless about the nature of affairs...and of healthy marriage... And on to your counselor... Her concern was that with WH already battling depression and the added issues with his Dad being seriously ill and his legal stuff/court date coming soon (April 25) that it might be "too much,too soon" and really put him into a bad mental state. Why is there more concern about your WH than about you? What about your own depression and mental state, having been abandoned by your H...who moves into a new home..so he can comfortably continue his A with the OW... You are being encouraged to put his needs over your own, IMO. Plus, you are being given the message that YOU CONTROL HIS MENTAL STATE..this is on him..this is about the choices that HE has made... Plan B will motivate him to come to you if he needs you..when he reaches his bottom..... The other way..he will try to take advantage of receiving comfort from you and WHATEVER from her...He will cake-eat, IMO, and try to hold onto you both... Feel confused, as both IC's gave me some new thoughts and I'm not sure what to think.... is there too much going on and too close to the court date for Plan B ? Will it backfire on me and make OW into the "hero" he'll never want to leave because she was "there" during his crisis, should I do the "tough love letter" (similiar to PBL) and much stronger "180's" (or not good since he has a strong need for "admiration")?? I can understand you feeling confused by what these counselors are saying...What they are saying does not make sense to me. I say that if you want a good chance at reconciling your marriage and maintaining your love for your WH you need to do Plan B...A DARK PLAN B.. BTW, my FWH's primary EN is ADMIRATION and Steve Harley specifically told me NOT to do the 180 APPROACH..In fact, I'm wondering why you do not consider scheduling a session with him. I think that you would find him a zillion times more helpful than these therapists..... Isn't his continued lying hurtful and disrespectful to you? Calling you with the OW right there in the background...remove yourself from this, Slammed...Plan B definitely is the answer for YOU....
I made it happen..a joyful life..filled with peace, contentment, happiness and fabulocity.
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Slammed, I have to agree with Daisy and Mimi on this. It's time to implement Plan B. You have already done Plan A long enough. He knows how good and kind you are. But, unfortunately, that wasn't enough for him. Just because he is going through some tough time, I do not think he will end his A. You have already done this too. We felt that he hit the rock bottom with his DUI, and came home to you. Yet he resumed his A. He will continue this path, if he is allowed to do so.
Like Daisy said, he needs to suffer. This is not retaliation. But he has to suffer in order to truly see the value YOU bring to his life. It's so easy for him right now. He has OW to have fun with, and YOU to give him stability. Why give up such life? I really believe Plan B will be effective in your case.
I know it is very scary to do Plan B. But you have done a wonderful Plan A, so really, it's HIM who loses whole a lot, not you. Imagine someone who keeps pursuing you no matter what you have done to him - you were even talking to your boyfriend in front of him, but this guy was always helpful and supportive - and all of the sudden, he cut the contact. This will drive you crazy, and you will miss him tremendously!
Also this will give you a sense of comfort, knowing that it is OK to not hear from your WH. You do not have to wonder if you should call him to ask about his well-being. You do not have to overhear his conversations with OW.
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Thanks, Mimi. After the counseling sessions, reading, the movie, and all sort of thoughts my mind just seems to be reeling so I'm "throwing" it all out there and you are so helpful in breaking it down into some concise and logical order !
I don't know how to pull down the "quotes" but to reply back to your comments:
Yes, I do believe in the MB principles and understand them well. I know that the Harleys have indicated they don't always work/apply to those with addictions or other issues and had initially gotten some very negative responses from posters here who said they wouldn't help in my case, but I felt that my WH followed enough of the same old WS mold that it was helpful to me to stick with it (at least didn't think it could hurt !)
I know that even if I could get to the "psychological" base of it all, even if that was possible, it wouldn't really make any difference or help restore the M. I am just a very "analytical" person and always need to try to understand things in a way that makes sense to me. Guess I also have a lot of interest in the medical and psychology field so it's intriguing to me (although pointless). My sister is the one who is a psychologist, figures !!
My comment about WH denying he has any addictions, or that his "issues" have anything to do with the A was just to say that WH isn't trying to use his problems as an excuse- at least I don't think so, but you're right, he's VERY foggy !
As for changing the locks- I was thinking that the purpose of doing that in Plan B was to keep the WS from getting in to have "a taste" of home, the dog, familiar surroundings, etc. (?) so was discouraged to find that I can't change them without giving him the new keys, should he ask. Don't know that he would anyway, since, as you said, he does have the new house now. Guess for the moment, I'm not going to bother with it, since my money is tight and it doesn't seem to have much purpose.(?) The reason our house is considered both of ours is that both our names are on the deed and loan, however the new one is only considered "his" because only his name is on the deed and loan. If WH does insist that we put our house up for sale, I'll have to go along with it since I can't afford to keep it alone, and I'll try to view it in a more positive light. It just feels so "big" and "final" like another peice of "us" going away. (but I'll keep your story in mind as a reminder it might not be <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> WH would have to continue to pay towards to house expenses until it sold, and no way to know how long it might take.
I agree that much of what WH says is outright lying, and geared towards "sounding good" for the counselor. I doubt he's even bought much of anything for the house ! I had even mentioned to him that there was no point in his going out and buying all new everything, when we have lots of linens, dishes, misc. that we could split, but so far he's taken nothing but one single towel and washcloth, a cheap set of pots and pans he bought when seperated before, one set of sheets, a mattress pad, one pillow, a throw, and his old comforter !
From the transactions and receipts I see for our joint checking account and WH's phone calls to me, I've been able to see a distinct "pattern" of his behavior with OW, and it seems odd- like people who are just casually "dating". He appears to be at his house, taking home fast-food or take out for one on M-W, may do something or stay at Ow's Thur night, is home again on Fri, runs errands and is home Sat. during the day, does something with OW Sat night (often rents a movie at the place on the way to her house), appears to eat breakfast with her on OW, then runs more errands, and is back home on Sun night. Not that it matters, but seems strange that someone would give up their S, M, and go into debt for casual dating ???
I think WH's counselor realizes much more than she says, and she definitely seems to be "on to" WH and his "speel" and has often put him "on the spot" or "challenged" him on things he has said. From all I've said both in the sessions and to her privately, she also knows much about the A and is very supportive/sympathetic to me, and seems to be pro- marriage from both a personal and religious standpoint. (she is divorced herself, and a Christian counselor) but I think she may be going with this "path of healing" as a means to slow down WH on his "rush" to seperate and D, without coming right out and saying "WH, you are lying, and this whole thing is due to the A", which would likely end his trust in her and his going as well (?) I'm just thinking that it would be good for me to stop going along, because then he has no reason to discuss the M or to keep repeating his "speel", and can work on just his issues. I would love to have SH talk to WH, and have suggested it, however, at least for now, WH is not willing to do it. I did enjoy talking to Jennifer, but think I might have preferred Steve (think he was out of town at the time). I thought of calling again, however was told that if you start with one of the MB counselors you will have them from then on ( would that mean I couldn't switch to Steve ?)
I really do like my IC and feel like she's been good at helping me work on my own changes, developing and finding my strengths, independence, etc. with , or without WH. She is a former drug/alcohol counselor and an addictions specialist so has been able to understand/explain some of WH's behaviors, but doesn't focus too much or talk about him. She has been very interested in hearing about MB and is somewhat familiar with it, although she's not always agreed with everything due to the way WH's illness effects him and his behavior. However, she hasn't had any better ideas either, so I'm sticking to the plan. (B)
Should find out today or tomorrow when the "closing" on our land sale will be, and assume I should wait until after that to give WH the PBL ? I was hoping the timing would be such that it won't be right at the time WH has his court date, thinking WH will be so pre-occupied and anxious about it that it might "steal the thunder" of my plan, or do you think that will matter ? Thanks, Slammed
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The reason our house is considered both of ours is that both our names are on the deed and loan, however the new one is only considered "his" because only his name is on the deed and loan. How did this happen and you two still being married? My H bought a condo but could only do so once we were legally separated.
I made it happen..a joyful life..filled with peace, contentment, happiness and fabulocity.
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We weren't even seperated at the time he bought it, but apparently here there is no issue with either spouse buying land, house, etc. on their own here. I have been very disappointed to find out about some of my state's laws concerning divison of properties, etc. and how easy it actually is to get divorced too. And we're actually considered to be a conservative state !! (Colorado)
Me-38, BS
H- 34, WS
A- June-Oct 01
Recovery begun- Nov 01
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