Mimi is so right. You need to protect yourself. You've put a lot into this marriage for a long time. You deserve your share and not to be taken advantage of by your self-centered husband and his creepy girlfriend. Get a good lawyer and file LS to protect yourself. And think of it this way... the more you stand up for yourself, the more trouble there will be between your WH and the OW. They are both counting on you doing whatever they want. Don't make it so easy on them. They are the ones who are wrong. You have nothing to feel ashamed about. Hold your head high and make NOTHING easy for him. A dark Plan B will be a major wake-up call, especially if you are not handing him all the marital assets. Make him work for the divorce. You protect yourself in the meantime and string it out as long as possible.

It's perfectly understandable for you to feel down right now. You've been through a lot. The one lesson to take from this is that nothing in life is stable or guaranteed. No matter how hard people work and how much they play by the rules, it doesn't mean you can count on a stable life. Jobs disappear, spouses become aliens, different crises happen in life that can knock a person back to square one. The secret is to make the best of it and use it as an opportunity to find something better.

I hate to hear you say that you can't do the things you dreamed of when you were a young girl, because you can. You just have to believe you can and find a way to do it. I have two friends who are each in their 50's. One of them recently divorced and moved by herself to a foreign country to go to university. She's doing a bachelor's degree. Another friend who has been divorced for years is doing the same thing and will be moving overseas to go back to school this fall. She's doing a graduate degree. Neither one of them have much money. But, they were tired of the rut they were in and they wanted a new life. Student visas are an easy way to move to a new country. You can get school loans from the U.S. if you choose an accredited foreign university.

I don't know if this is something that you'd be interested in, but the point is that you don't limit yourself. Open yourself to any possibility. Though it may seem like your world is falling apart, you really have a huge amount of freedom to try something entirely new. I can't imagine what your WH and OW would think if he were paying alimony and you up and went off to a new life in a new country! Think about how much fun you could have.

I know a woman in her 30's who is studying travel and hospitality in the UK. She's doing a masters. Do you have a B.A. already, where you could do a 1-2 year graduate program?

Your life is uncertain and through no fault of your own, you're facing some major changes. Since you're already having to make some big changes anyway, why not consider something really different that could open an entirely new life for you?

Thanks Beauty, Not-so-you-neak, and Mimi.

I do have a lot of "fight" in me, and I definitely am not
going to let WH walk over me or get more than his fair share if we divorce. I have stood up for my rights and fair share on those things we've settled so far (dividing the furniture and selling the lot) and will do so on anything else we have to "split".(even though I am hating everything about it and it's not what I want).

I hadn't done a legal seperation primarily due to the cost
and because the lawyer had advised that there wasn't much point unless WH was being difficult about paying towards
the joint bills and expenses.
Whether he was doing it because he knows he has some legal
obligations, guilt, or just because he is so picky and
careful about credit, he's paid every month since the A started, without a hassle or any problem so it has not
seemed necessary. Obviously, if he's now balking about it
it's that he's starting to feel the money pinch of having
two houses. My next day off is next Wed.(31st) so I will call today to set up to see the lawyer again, so I can ask more about the house situation and the LS-
I'm pretty sure he's said that there is no "spousal support"
option in a LS when there's no kids, but I'll double check
on that too. (No, the lawyer is not a friend to WH <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

If we do D, I will be going for all I can legally get,
although since it's a 50/50 state, "no fault", no way to
"contest", and no kids, it is pretty "cut and dry" as far
as a settlement. (so can't really "take him to the cleaners
even if I tried)
Basically, the only item to "divide" will be the houses.
I want to find out more about the possibility of having all
the proceeds from my current house go to me, and WH keep the
other house and all it's related expenses, in lieu of me
trying to get something out of that new house based on
possible future "equity". (Not sure if there is a way to
even do that since there won't be a mortgage until at
least August, and it would take some time for payments to
build up into equity).
I will try to get the max "spousal support", and the only
other thing that will probably be up for any debate is
our 401K accounts. (which of course, I'll fight to keep
all of mine). We don't really have much else to "split".

What I meant by my comment on "not expecting WH to support
me indefinitely" was that I would not expect WH (or anyone)
to support me, whether I am single or married, because I
work, am capable of doing so, and expect to, for life.
I like and expect to "pull my own weight", but didn't mean
WH shouldn't contribute towards debts, bills, expenses or obligations we have made together- he should !! (whether
we are together or not)

I do want to gain WH's respect by showing strength and
sticking to "my guns", and I've tried to be courteous,
reasonable, calm, and fair in all our dealings so far,
but I don't think I've been overly nice, and am not going
to allow "use or abuse".(not sure what you meant about my
being willing to be so nice ?)

It's an awful feeling to even have to think about how you
will "divide" up what's left of our life together and I
sure hope it will never come to that, but it is good to be prepared, just in case.

Mimi- Please give any suggestions or feedback on my PBL
if you have a chance. I will try to do the "re-write" tonight or tomorrow so it will be ready to give WH later this week at the land sale closing. My "stipulation" letter
is already typed up and ready to go also !

Beauty- so glad things are better with both your H's health
and situation. I hope it keeps up ! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Not-so-you-neak- Great thought !
I definitely am trying to protect and save our assets from OW, and WH's own foolishness. I've always been the more
frugal and careful one, while he is more of a spender, risk
taker, and has much more concern with having "fancier"
things, name brands, etc. (partly due to his bipolar, no
doubt). I would love it if I was the one with the higher
income so I could have more "power" and need nothing at all
from WH.
Slammed

Grown-up,
Sorry I must have been posting at the same time and didn't
see your comments.
I definitely am not going to let WH keep me from my fair
share on our assets, and am not going to do anything to make
things easier for him and/or OW. I love the thought of
making trouble between them and hope that my not going along
with some of WH's "proposals" before have caused some nice,
big LB's with them !
Of course, I'm sure WH has managed to make everything sound
like he's "calling all the shots", because he has to sound
like the "big man" to OW- yuck !

Thanks for the reminder that it's okay to feel down due to
the circumstances, but to try to see some positives in the
situation as well and find some new opportunities.

Even before we seperated due to WH's affair, I was already
realizing I needed to make more money so I could contribute
more to our finances, but was having the same trouble thinking of things I could do with existing skills or some training in new skills that wouldn't take too long.
I have an interest in the medical field, but found that the
things I considered doing (Pharmacy Tech or Medical Admin
Assistant) only pay about what I'm making now, so aren't
a good alternative.

I didn't pursue the things I loved in high-school because
they were not very practical then, and still aren't-
I dreamt of being a symphony conductor, but was reminded
by my H.S. music teacher than most musicians end up being
teachers or doing something else too, in order to make ends
meet and I didn't want to be a teacher. I also loved
photography, but didn't figure "National Geographic" was
hiring too often, and didn't want to work in a studio or
take pictures for the newspaper. Travel was another love,
and seemed the most practical at the time, and I've really
enjoyed taking advantage of all the benefits I can, being
able to travel free or discounted, and staying in much nicer
places than I could afford. No way of knowing that the
impact of 9/11 on travel as well as internet travel would
put such a "hurt" on the career field back when I started.

My IC (who has done career counseling) had a few ideas on
ways I could incorporate some of the skills I have into a
different field and suggested I investigate other positions
or areas of my current field. She is also going to have some
more ideas and some type of "test" for me to take next week.

I'm not interested in re-locating since my family and friends are here and I hope that WH and I will reconcile
but am open to jobs with some travel involved, or going to
school (I have an "Assoc of Applied Science" degree now)
if I could find something that wouldn't be too long term
and could get the financial aid to do it.
Slammed

Monday's update-
Came home tonight and WH had been here- he left a stack
of receipts and bank deposit slips on the dresser, and
a bag of special dog treats on the kitchen table.
Looked around and it appears he took a few more of his
summer clothes, some shoes, a peice of his mail, and his bike from the garage.
A funny thing I noticed was that one of the pictures of
WH and I looked like it had been moved, like perhaps he
had picked it up to look at. Also the strangest thing was
that I have an old stuffed animal I've always kept on the
bed. The cat has a ribbon around his neck and I was never
very good at tying it when it would come undone. Tonight,
the cat's ribbon was re-tied in a neat bow and the cat was
sitting up nicely on the bed pillow. Isn't that a strange
thing for WH to do when he doesn't want to be here, and
doesn't seem to have any feelings left for me/us ?????

Thought of calling to say I found the things he left
and noticed what he had taken, but realized there was
no need and didn't do it. Wouldn't want to do anything
to "bug him" after all (heavy sarcasm here).

Am continuing to do my best to get every possible sale
and show max effort at work, but it's slowed down some
in the past few days and the month is moving ahead quickly.
Anyone want a big cruise, tour or package trip, please
contact me right away !! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

As if I didn't have enough to worry about, there were two
messages on the phone when I got home.
One was the place where I went for a mammogram last week,
calling to say there "is a problem" and I need to call to
schedule a "diagnostic mammogram". It was too late to
call back when I got the message so I'll call tomorrow,
but I looked up this term and it looks like it is a follow
up and more in-depth type mammogram they do when they
find something suspicious or questionable on your regular
mammogram. I've only had one before (last year was my
1st, done as a "baseline", I'm having no problems at all,
and do not have any of the "high risk" characteristics
for cancer, but still this is very scary to me, especially
because I hate all things medical ! Has anyone had this
same situation ?

The second call was WH's D13. As I've been saying lately,
she has been calling much more often than usual, has also
written her Dad a couple times and is sounding like she
is having problems and is very unhappy at home. She has
said she doesn't like her Mom's BF, doesn't like his kids,
isn't doing as well at school lately, wants money for
various things, and has mentioned coming to visit her
Dad, or even coming to live with him.
I know that WH had talked to her several times lately,
and had told her he would try to make a plan to see her
as soon as he could, but don't know if he had made any
plans since I'm now "out of the loop".
Well, the message she left tonight was very angry, very sad
and somewhat overly dramatic, but she basically said that
she had called and left messages for her Dad several times
lately without him calling her back, that she was having
a rough time and that "they thought she was crazy so were
making her go to a therapist", and that one way she was
eliminating some of the problems in her life was to "erase"
her Dad from her life. Went on to say "he had lied to her
about his wanting a child" (don't know what that was about),
that "she was no longer his daughter" and that he was now
"dead" to her. She said she had written to tell him the
same thing and had sent her most recent school picture, as
well as some old pictures she had of WH.
I felt so sad to hear this and to know she is having such
a hard time and reaching out to her Dad, who is not in much
of a position to help her since he has his own life in such
a mess. I don't know if he wants to try to see her, but he
probably hasn't made plans because, for one thing, with his
suspended license, he has no way to drive and pick her up.
I also doubt he would want to have her around OW or at the
new house.
I guess there's nothing I can really do, but I always cared
alot for his daughter and feel sad that this is happening.
I thought of calling WH to pass on this message, but she
does have his cell number, so can call him directly.

When it rains, it sure pours.... (and speaking of that,
we are in the midst of a heavy thunderstorm right now and
even had tornadoes not too far away today.)

Slammed

Yes. Don't worry about it. Most of these are false positives, and will turn up nothing.

Maybe WH's daughter can come live with you? When my H left, I had his son living with me. And he continued to live with me. And by the summer, I had two of his sons living with me. (Both went on to college.) Why not?

Maybe arrange with her mom? Her mom might need a break. She can negotiate with WH.

A broken record here..But..You see, this is the value of Plan B..He won't be able to get his HOME FIX. My FWH used to do stuff like that..He left all of his clothes in our house...so he would come home and stand in his closet, touching things..WEIRD...

Good morning~
Thanks A.M. for the reassuring words about the mammogram.
I am a huge chicken when it comes to anything medical, so
even the thought of going for a re-test freaks me out a
bit, but hopefully it was just a "fluke" with the test.
I'm sure I'll hear back from the lab this morning, or will
call myself to get the details and schedule.

It would be fun to have WH's daughter visit for a short time
but difficult to do long term since I have to work and she
couldn't be left home "alone". She has asked to come for
several weeks in the summer in past years, but we've had
the same problem- didn't feel it safe for her to be home
alone and both WH and I had to work. There's also few kids
in our neighborhood so we felt like all she would have to
do would be TV/video games, and "getting into mischief" <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
I know it would be a fun break for her though (and probably
her Mom too) because at home it sounds like she mostly is
always stuck being the babysitter for her younger sisters,
and they are sometimes left with the older child of her
Mom's BF.
The past two years, SD13 Mom has called WH's parents and
asked if they'd like to keep SD13 for about a month in the
summer. I have felt it was inappropriate for her to call
them directly rather than going through WH, and that a month
was too long to ask them to keep her (especially since she
didn't even send a dime for her to buy anything or pay for
activities for her) but I've stayed out of it. This year,
however, WH's Dad has been so ill and in and out of the
hospital several times and they are just not up to it.
It's hard to know how much SD13's Mom knows about her being
unhappy or upset, or her calling and writing her Dad, but
I assume she must at least know something is going on, or
maybe is having trouble with her herself since SD says she
is in therapy and "they think she is crazy there".
I hope WH will "step up" and at least do what he can- sure
is another example of the mess he's made of his life !

Mimi- I guess the WH's must see their things either think of
their "old lives" with some sentimentality and sadness, or
see their things and think how happy they are to be "out of
there" ???
I was just surprised that my WH, who has so totally "blown"
me off would stop to tie the bow on a stuffed cat. The dog
treats I could more understand (guilt). I guess he can still
get a house "fix" if he really needs it since I can't lock
him out, but at least I won't be there.
Don't know if he noticed, but I felt a little satisfaction
in knowing the house was freshly cleaned, vacuumed and neat,
and had brand-new "scent" refills in the fresh, spring-like
lilac scent WH and I always liked. I had also just recently
finished re-arranging and organizing two of the upstairs
rooms (office and "spare" room)
I hope OW and her dogs are making a big mess in his "new"
house!!
Slammed

Listen. This might be your real chance to make a difference, to be a blessing in someone else's life.

I'm sure some sort of summer school or something could be arranged for your stepdaughter. Or some daytime plan. She needs help, and soon.

And as you move into Plan B, you might enjoy the company.

Hi Slammed,
I just read your post from last night. Try not to worry about the mammogram too much. There are many "false positives". A lot depends on the skill of the tech. Do you do regular self breast exams? Noticed any changes?

Wouldn't be a hoot to have a MB cruise? ...it would give those WS's something to think about. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

It sounds like your WH was getting a home fix. Hope you left a naughty nightie around! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

I'm sorry to hear about your DSD13...thats a tough age. Is she currently in therapy and are they aware of WH bipolar diagnosis? I'm glad she has you to turn to.

Thanks A.M. and ChaCha,
I hope there is something I can do to help SD13, even if I could just have her for a visit. I started to get a bit
ahead of myself, thinking of plans and activities for her,
trying to figure out where schools are around my house,
worrying about how I would handle the finances, and then
remembered I don't even know if her Mom and/or WH would
agree for her to come visit, much less stay any longer.
Also remembered the custody/visitation paperwork would have
to be altered, even for a visit, because it specifically
states she can only be left with either her Dad or her
grandparents and we ran into an issue with that before when
my parents offered to keep her for a weekend and couldn't.
So, will slow down a bit, but still try to see what I can
do-
From her message it did sound like she was in therapy, but
I don't know anything else- haven't talked to her in person,
heard anything from her Mom, and I don't think she mentioned
anything to WH. WH did get a letter from her, at our house,
a couple weeks ago, so I presume that was what she talked
about when she said she wrote WH to "disown" him. She does
have WH's cell number, and calls directly to him but has
also sometimes left messages on our house for, for him too
and that's how I'm getting the information.
I don't think anyone is WH's family, or SD13 or her Mom
know anything about the bipolar/OCD, etc.

Thanks for the reassurance about the mammogram. I've only
had one before, but it was fine, and I don't have any pain
or problems now and have noticed no changes myself. When
I talked to the person at the lab yesterday she said the
note from the radiologist just said there was a "shadow"
or some "density" they wanted to check out with "diagnostic
mammogram" which would just be more angles. She did say
not to "fret" too much because it could have just been a
bad xray, I could have moved, or my hand or other body part
could have gotten in the way of the picture. I am scheduled
to go back three weeks from today.

Nothing new with WH. Love the thought and would have left
out a naughty nightie or thong had I known he was going to
stop by the house ! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
Still think it odd that he "tied the bow" on my stuffed cat
and takes just a few things at a time from the house instead
of taking all his stuff- !? He also brought back a big tub
of mine he had borrowed to pack some of his stuff in before.
I didn't hear anything from him yesterday -
I will write out the PBL tonight- and will take it with me
to give to him at the land sale closing which is after work tomorrow.

Slammed

Good luck tomorrow slammed. What time will you see him? You'll be in my prayers...let us know how it goes.

I won't be delivering until about 9 PM....long day...uggghh!

(((((slammed)))))
Let us know how it went. This is the right thing. For you and for him. Its your last best chance, but you already know that. What plans do you have for the weekend? When are you changing your locks?...you know in case he wants to tie your bow.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Good morning !
The closing is at 5pm today.
I had hoped we could go straight to the bank afterwards so we could cash the check, do the money "split", and could
get the "stipulation" I wrote up signed and notarized by
WH, but I've realized this morning that we may not get
done in time to get to the bank before they close at 6pm.

Tried to think of a "back up plan", and thought maybe we
could both endorse the check, one of us deposit it in our
joint checking account via the bank drive-up, and then I
could just write the checks to do my payoffs (paying off
my car and credit card) and WH could withdraw his portion
or write payoff checks from the account later. Only thing
this won't take care of is getting the other form signed
and notarized, however I could sign it and have it notarized
today, then give it to WH and have him do the same and
return in to me via mail - how does this sound ?????
(trying to avoid delaying the PBL or needing to see him
for anything after today)

I had checked into changing the locks but didn't do it
after finding out from the lawyer that I'd have to give WH
the new key if he wanted it (can't legally "lock him out"
since he "co-owns" the house). Didn't know if it'd still be
worth it since it would cost me about $150 and he has very
rarely come over since the separation.
What are your thoughts on this ?

Slammed

Hi Slammed, I have been very busy trying to improve my work, and haven't checked your thread in a while.

I am glad to know that you sound pretty good. As for the mammogram, I too had to go through many tests when I was still in high school. It was a very scary experience, so I understand your fear, but it turned out nothing. They just told me to keep checking and monitoring my breast. Think of this as a chance to get yourself examined thoroughly.

Good luck with your closing tonight. By the way, after WH moved out last year, I changed my locks too. WH made a fuss over it, but as far as I was concerned, he was not even paying for the house and CHOSE to walk away from his family, it was no longer his house. I know in your case your WH still contributes to the house, so you may feel uncomfortable, but if you feel that your WH may start taking things out of the house you may want to consider changing your locks.

Milk

I will be adding a lock just something from home depot my Dad is going to help me install it. Since I am home alone more often I think it will make me feel safer. Changing the locks is not neccessarily just to keep him out it, its to make you feel more secure.

Thanks, Milk.
I've been really busy at work too, doing all I can to try
to get my sales up. Business has slowed down, so I am not
feeling very optomistic about meeting the very high sales
I need to get out of the "deficit" I'm in right now and
keeping my job. How is your job going ?

I still feel a little nervous about the mammogram situation
so will be glad to get the new tests over with and hopefully
hear that it was just a bad picture or something harmless.
It helps to know several here have also had a "call back"
and had it be nothing bad. I know of a friend who has had to have several biopsies and since I'm very needle-phobic and hate medical stuff that had me freaking out !

WH doesn't come to the house often, but when he has he's
usually been there to drop off receipts or deposit slips
for our joint checking account, pick up mail, or get a
few more of his things. I had thought of changing the locks
so he couldn't see the dog or get a home "fix" but after
the lawyer said I couldn't legally keep him out, I didn't
figure it was worth the expense to do it. (lawyer said I
could change them, but would have to give WH the new key
if he wanted it).

I'm not really feeling nervous about giving WH the PBL
and don't expect much reaction. I do think he'll read it
though and hopefully he'll let it "soak in".

Anything new happening with your WH ? How is DS3 ?
Slammed

In order to REALLY be in PLAN B, he CANNOT get a house "FIX"..even more reason for a legal separation..or change the locks anyway....

I mean, really... do you have a key to HIS house?...

Sounds good, ChaCha.
I could add an additional lock also, although I suppose it would also fall into the same category of me having to give WH the key if he wanted it-

I'm very glad to have the dog at home, as I feel very
safe and secure with her there but we also have a fenced
backyard with locked gate, security door, and deadbolts on
all doors.

Slammed

Excellent point. Can you just come and go as you please at his house? Do you just let yourself in while he's at work? You're still married. That house is as much yours as his.

Take yourself out of the mindset of accomodating him. He certainly has two completely different sets of rules -- one for him and one for you. You're letting him get by with it. Stop playing his game. He's incredibly disrespectful to you. He's so self-centered, he won't even realize it until you call him on it. Stand up for yourself. Stop letting him treat you this way.