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slammed, i'm so sorry that your H has not seen the light yet and is now adding to your pain with talk of D
i DO know how you feel. You know my H filed and only withdrew it so i wouldn't counter-claim adultry and since April, when we were seperated for 2 years and he could get a no-fault D i've expected the papers to arrive everyday
i get sick to my stomach when i see any big envelopes in the mailbox
regardless of WHY, it hurts so much to be treated this way by someone that we love....by someone that used to be such a source of happiness to us
like you, i try and try to figure it out....and like you i have no answers
i thought things would be better once school started and i got back to work but coming home and not having him waiting for me is so hard....after 2 years i'm still surprised when i turn the bend and don't see his truck in the driveway
my "safe" place used to be tucked under his arm with my head resting on his chest....now i don't have a safe place
and the person who protected me from pain is the person who is causing it
i think that since we don't have children, our H was the person we gave almost all of our love to and we centered our life around being "us"
and now we are lost
my heart is with you slammed...i DO know how you feel
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Kayla Andy- I very much appreciate your thoughts and support, and NO I don't want anyone here to stop posting to me- being able to vent, say how I feel, get feedback, other thoughts and perspectives, ideas and suggestions have really been very helpful and supportive to me. I appreciate everyone- I decided and had discussed here that I didn't feel like relocating would be a good thing for me, at least right now, as I felt I needed the support and help of my circle of friends and family here and the familiar surroundings of my hometown and place I love, but I really did appreciate your offer to give me info on a prospective job. It does sound like we have several things in common and you touch on some good points that I can see come from your own experience with many of the same things I've dealt with, which is enormously helpful. I have tried very hard over the course of the last year to initiate many of the ideas and suggestions here, as well as in my IC, as far as self-care, focusing on myself, and also realizing I can't control or fix WH's problems, issues or illnesses. As far as making my own choices and decision and doing what I want to do, that has really never been an issue- I was the same person married as I was single, and would be if again single as far as continuing with my hobbies, friends, family, activities, career, etc. WH and I talked about everything and did much together throughout our relationship but he was not one to keep me from living my own life, doing my own things, having my own interests, friends, etc. I did want to be helpful, caring and supportive of things WH did (career, etc) as well as when he was diagnosed and we realized his illness(es) had and would continue to be a major part of his (and our) life, but it was never my wish to be the "fixer", a nurse, or his mother. His going to IC, the psych., being on meds, etc. became a necessary part of our life, but I never felt like it was the "focal point" or my purpose- I see from our insurance claims that WH has continued to go to his IC, the psych and gets refills on his meds, so he apparently has decided it's important enough to keep making an effort, without any help from me. Yes, there are days where I feel like I've spent much of my energy worrying about the future, missing H, feeling sad and frustrated and I try to minimize this expenditure and my stress with a variety of methods. Peace is a tough one. I've had moments of feeling peaceful throughout this last year, mixed in with emotions of every sort and a variety of feelings too. Relief has never been one of them, however. If we do divorce, I know I would have to learn to live with it, and that the pain, frustration, hurt, anger and disappointment would gradually lessen, but I don't think anyone is a winner in a divorce. I also realized that like WH, my problems and issues will still be with me, as well as the whole new set created by D. WH hasn't ever seemed to think I was the "fixer" of anything and never seemed to need me as a rescuer, but if he did think we'd D and he could still rely on me for friendship, support, etc. he'd be sorely mistaken... I can't D and still be "friends" or anything else. I LOVE the story from the therapist and thinking of yourself as a "roadblock" to God's plan for WH is very helpful. I only ever wanted to be a "road sign" on WH's "path" to a happier, healthy life and M, not the "driver", and not the "stop light" <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> Thanks, Slammed
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A.M.-
I'm not sure how much one can work on their self esteem
either, but I have made much effort to get to the roots
of my feeling less confident, less self-assured and less
strong that I'd like, and made big strides in those areas
many years ago and more recently with my IC.
I would think almost everyone's esteem/ego would take a
"hit" at least to some degree when their spouse chooses
to be with another person, but I know that in my case, it
was an especially big blow.
Things that always made me feel good about myself were
things like doing a good day's work at a job I enjoyed,
keeping up my home nicely, making someone else feel good,
and doing things I enjoy. I also have always liked to stay
busy, with activities, local events, my long term involve-
ment with the local music circle and my group, crafts,
family history, etc. All these are things I've done for
many years, while both single and married, and continue to
do now.
I have been told by more than one lawyer that it has become
quite uncommon for "alimony" to be awarded here anymore
(especially when no kids, I have always and am able to work,
and a marrige of less than 10 years) but it would come down
to the overall financials and decision of the judge.
I know that delay tactics aren't a very good tactic, but if
more time would allow the A to finally end and WH to come
out of the fog, I was patient enough and willing to give it
time. However, if he filed or does soon, it takes away that
option because the D moves so fast.
I do take some responsibility and "blame" for some of the
conditions that led to WH's affair, but realize that much
of this whole situation has been his issues and his poor
choices, which I don't "own".
When I counseled with Jennifer at MB, she did feel it was still effective to do the Plan A despite the added issue
of WH's bipolar/OCD, because she said that there were always
things that could have been done differently or better, and
contributions made to the marital problmems by both partners
and I did do that, to my best ability, for quite a long time
before she advised to go to Plan B. (I have mentioned and
at times suspected SA, but WH has not been diagnosed as such
as his Psych did not feel he "fit the bill". He also is not
an alcoholic, but has had issues with alcohol related to his
bipolar). Unfortunately, I guess there is no Plan C, just
a default to Plan D when nothing else works....
I am sorry to know that you had to deal with a WH who had some of the same issues, and dealt with it the same way, by A.
Slammed
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Slammed, I don't know if you are aware of it, but in these last two posts you sound like a COMPLETELY DIFFERENT PERSON.
It's a very odd impression.
Usually you strike me as obsessed with WH and his thinking -- frantically scrambling to glue your world back together, your mind turning like a squirrel in a treadmill. In these last two posts you sound much more calm, much more centered, much stronger. It's like a whole different person emerging.
"Virtue -- even attempted virtue -- brings light; indulgence brings fog." -- C.S. Lewis
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Cross-posted with a couple of people, and wanted to reply to those- Milk- Seems like we always understand each other so well, with WH's that are so similiar in many ways. I do believe that WH will someday, come out of the fog, realize and regret, and maybe even be very horrified by his actions. With all my heart I wish this would be soon, while there is still time to turn things around and save this marriage. If not, and we're divorced and gone seperate ways, he may still, but I won't know about it and it'll be too late, so won't matter anymore anyway- I think the same is true in your case, and that your WH does not realize what he's missing out on with you and DS3. (but he will !) GrownUp- You are always so confident in my abilities and my strength- thank you ! It truly is a bit scary to go into the "unknown territory" having to find a new job, knowing I will have to sell this house and find a new place to live (whether WH files or not) and knowing I will have a huge change of lifestyle if we do D. Wish I could say there was something I always wanted to do, a dream I couldn't live while with WH but that wasn't the case- I lived my dream with him and always was able to do the things I wanted to, and was encouraged by him to do so. Still, I hope that some positives will come forward and I will be able to find some satisfaction in my new, if not desirable, life. Eav- We always feel and think so much alike, and both have the need to make some "sense" out of these things that don't make sense (something my IC says is a trait of an person who has a very "analytical" thinking process) and we miss our H's and our married lives more than anything- I think you've said your life was not really happy prior to H, and in my case I did have a busy, content single life but in both our cases, we found our "fit" and happiness with our married lives and people we really believed in, who we felt were our "solid rock" and "security". I always loved sleeping with my back against WH, my head on his arm, and that arm around me, and felt that was my warm, cozy, safe and secure place. We almost always went to sleep like that, even during our "false" recovery (Jan-Mar) early this year. I understand feeling fearful about WH filing. Don't know if mine has, but I dread a package in the mail or knock on my door, knowing I can't do anything about it. I'm just trying to keep myself and my mind busy, and I do realize life will go on, a day at a time. A.M.- Don't know why/how my posts of last night sound too different, but perhaps it was late enough and my mind too tired to go in a million directions <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> I still love and want my H and our life back more than anything in the world but realize that nothing I've done or can do have the power to make that happen- I've tried to do everything I can possibly do, and I'll have to live with that. Slammed
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I don't know. Maybe it was late for me, too. But you sounded much more focused on things you could do something about. Much less speculative tailspinning.
"Virtue -- even attempted virtue -- brings light; indulgence brings fog." -- C.S. Lewis
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Once again, lost my post and got the "we cannot proceed, form is expired" message- very annoying since I now get that every single time I post ! Message wasn't there to copy and paste either- ! This has been a really long week, but overall time sure does seem to just "fly" by lately. Hard to believe the summer is almost over, and that my fun trip, after all the planning and looking forward to it, is over and I'm back to the old "usual" routine. Something made me think about New Year's Eve, when WH was here at our home for dinner, and spent the evening and night here. It wasn't at all "celebratory" as WH was very anxious, quiet, and depressed over the DUI he had gotten at Christmas but he was also remorseful, apologetic and very humble, and there was a feeling of hope about reconciliation. I can remember feeling so glad he was home, safe, away from OW and not spending the holiday with her, and felt so lucky thinking we were having a chance at a "fresh start" at such an appropriate time as New Years Eve and a new year. Never would I have thought that the A would resume, just 2 months later, and would still be apparently going now many months later (and a year from its start). Never would have thought more of our things would be divided, WH would be in his own place, have a new dog, or be spending yet another holiday with OW either- <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> Had my IC on Wed. which went okay. My IC is very encouraging and thinks the job search is coming along well, although I feel discouraged it's going on so long and has seemed very "fruitless" so far. She's much less hopeful about WH and the situation, saying "IHO, as a therapist" that she doesn't think WH is going to change his mind, or decide to get back together". I think she bases this on WH seeming to have been able to "wean" himself away from me, our home, dog, belongings, life and memories, and "convince" himself that he is so much more "happy" with his own place, dog, life, belongings, and the ability to continue the A (which she agrees is still going on in some form, even if OW did move out). This was discouraging, even though I realize she doesn't know anymore than anyone else, what is going to happen- Yesterday I had went with my parents for a "belated bday" lunch for my Mom, then spent time at my best friend's house. Watched a show, walked the dog, ate, and took a bath in the evening. While in the tub with water running, I thought I heard the phone about 10pm, but when I shut the water off didn't hear anything, and didn't think any more of it until I saw the Caller ID this morning- it showed a call from WH at that time. Was very unlike WH that he didn't call back later, leave a message or try my cell- Haven't heard anything else, or received or been served the D paperwork as of yet, so don't know if he did it or not. I looked on the court website and nothing is listed, but it could be too soon to show up, so can't count on that. Tonight I am attending a "Renewal of Vows" ceremony and reception for the 50th anniversary of some long-time, good family friends. I can't say I'm too excited about going, and think it will make me feel a bit sad, given my sitch, but they have asked me several times and really seem to want me to come, and my parents are "standing up" for them, so didn't want to disappoint them by not going. Other than that, my only weekend plans so far are the usual housework, yardwork, laundry, etc. Would like to do something fun, but will have to see what happens with friends availability and the weather (supposed to be cooler and maybe stormy). On this weekend, WH and I usually went to our favorite mountain resort area, and it's hard not to think he might be going there with OW. YUCK ! Slammed
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Just looked at the Courts website and saw that WH did file
the paperwork on Tuesday. I can't even describe how I feel.
Slammed
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<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />I don't know what to say Slammed. But I just wanna send you a hug, and let you know I am praying for you.
((((((Slammed1))))))
Lady
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Thanks so much Lady, prayers, thoughts and encouragement
are much appreciated.
It's a gray, cold (60's), and dreary morning- kind of goes with my mood, for sure ! I didn't have any big plans, but for those with outdoor activities or participants in the annual hot air balloon festival here, it would be a bummer !
Attended the "Renewal of Vows" and 50th anniv. celebration
for family friends last night, which was very nice but hard
emotionally. Had a big lump in my throat when the couple
walked in to the traditional "wedding march", and during
the minister's talk, which was about "Committment".
He made some very good points about how this couple had no
idea what, where, how life would bring them when they got
married, but that their love, determination, faith and true
devotion to the committment they made had brought them to
this event, 50 years later. Talked about God's committment
to all of us too, which was comforting and reassuring.
The reception following was nice, and my parents and I all
stayed after with some cleaning up, etc., so it filled up
the whole evening. The hostess appreciated our help, even
gave me some of the flowers, as a thanks, which was nice.
Got home and saw on the Caller ID that WH had called our
house last night- he didn't leave a message, and had called
from his cell, not home. I talked to a friend for awhile,
then got to bed, and actually slept okay, although I feel
like I had a lot of dreams, some involving WH.
Don't know if it came from a dream, or just a thought in my
head, but woke up this morning with the distinct "feeling"
that WH probably went on a trip somewhere for the weekend,
with OW- could have gone to OUR old favorite resort town,
or maybe even flown to Vegas. I also remembered that he had
taken his set of luggage from our house back on the weekend
when I was out of town a couple weeks ago, which adds fuel
to that thought too.
Not that it matters, but my "theory" is that OW put out an
"ultimatum", maybe even something like Plan B on WH when she
moved out of his house at end of July, and would't see him
until she saw proof he filed, and now that he did it, they
are off on a "romantic reconciliation" weekend together -
YUCK !!! WHY is it that her "ultimatum" can get WH to do something as drastic as file, yet my "Plan B", which is something like an ultimatum, and actually has some history,
life and "reality" to it, hasn't been an incentive for him to do anything??????!!!!!
It's more than strange that so much of this, as well as the
things WH does and says are so much like what we went thru
at the same time last year, even down to being almost the
exact same day the paperwork was done- however last year
after demanding, cussing, ranting, raving and threatening
having me served, and my finally signing the paperwork, WH
took it and did nothing for more than two months. Then, the
day after OW called me, exposed the whole A and all his lies
and he was mad and spiteful at me, he filed it.
Since then, he and OW have "broken up" and then gotten back
together at least three times that I know of (involving one
of them moving), and it's sounded like each of them have
been at the doing of OW, who has given WH an ultimatum that
"she can't be in his life as long as he has any involvement
with anyone else" each time. (WH told me this once, and I
overheard something very similiar said by her another time).
I can only assume this was the case again, and it's pretty
sad and pitiful that WH doesn't have the courage, dignity,
strength, respect or committment to END it instead of walk
right down her path. Sorry, I know I'm angry, frustrated,
and venting !!
Am going to a movie with friend shortly, then will stop and
get a few groceries and rent a movie for later.
I hope everyone is having a good holiday weekend.
Slammed
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Slammed,
You sound good. Except for the theorizing about the D. Cut it out. It's a guess. You really just don't have enough of the pieces. And you don't need these pieces. All you need to know is your next steps.
This is now legal. The law doesn't care whether OW threatened or bullied him. The law doesn't care whether he really wants a D or not. The law responds to facts. You must respond to facts, too.
As for the 50th, this is what I keep reminding myself: Our society promotes a "Missing Pieces" attitude towards life. In your forties and fifties, you berate yourself for the "missing pieces." I'm having to start my life all over again when most people are thinking about retirement funds -- that's a "missing piece." We're supposed to have a lifelong spouse at our side -- "missing piece."
And then we're supposed to feel bad about all the missing pieces. But look around you. How many people have all the pieces? Ask them.
Then go back in your mind 200 years. Lots of women didn't have husbands at their side at your age BECAUSE THEY WERE WIDOWS. They were widows unable to go out and get a job, widows having to support their families, or live as dependents on other relatives. This was normal. It wasn't viewed as being singularly marked for bad luck.
And some of them who weren't widows wished they were.
And some of them who WERE widows considered themselves free at last -- free to pursue a life without compromises.
Make the best of whatever happens.
"Virtue -- even attempted virtue -- brings light; indulgence brings fog." -- C.S. Lewis
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Got home and saw on the Caller ID that WH had called our house last night- he didn't leave a message, and had called from his cell, not home. Hi slammed, Now that you know he filed, I betcha he called to get a "reaction" out of you possibly like before. You see guys with his illness/personality/adultery problem feed on that. What I mean is, as sick as it is, the begging pleading stuff is what he feeds on, as you did last time, When you speak to him that way, his only intention is to turn you down and hurt you all over again. It is like letting him stick another knife into your heart. I would recommend not talking to him on the phone at this time, or if he shows up at the house again, and just keep it at emails....safer for your heart. Now that he has filed, he may be looking for ways to intimidate you to strengthen his divorce case. Don't give him the time of day. Talked about God's committment
to all of us too, which was comforting and reassuring. I'm glad you were able to hear that message last night at the ceremony, that was for you too, and perfect timing. When your husband walks out, Jesus walks in and will be a wonderful husband to you, and He keeps his commitments. His love never fails. May the love, comfort and strength of God be with you through this time Slammed. Lady
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Got home and saw on the Caller ID that WH had called our house last night- he didn't leave a message, and had called from his cell, not home. Hi slammed, Now that you know he filed, I betcha he called to get a "reaction" out of you possibly like before. You see guys with his illness/personality/adultery problem feed on that. What I mean is, as sick as it is, the begging pleading stuff is what he feeds on, as you did last time, When you speak to him that way, his only intention is to turn you down and hurt you all over again. It is like letting him stick another knife into your heart. I would recommend not talking to him on the phone at this time, or if he shows up at the house again. Just keep it at emails....safer for your heart. Now that he has filed, he may be looking for ways to intimidate you to strengthen his divorce case. Don't give him the time of day. Talked about God's committment
to all of us too, which was comforting and reassuring. I'm glad you were able to hear that message last night at the ceremony, that was for you too, and perfect timing. When your husband walks out, Jesus walks in and will be a wonderful husband to you, and He keeps his commitments. His love never fails. May the love, comfort and strength of God be with you through this time Slammed. Lady
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Thanks A.M. and Lady,
Went to a movie with friends (saw "The Illusionist" which
was excellent !) then made a return to a store, got a few
groceries, and rented two movies for rest of the weekend.
It's still cold, gray, drizzly and dreary- thought some
soup and a good movie sound good for the evening.
Yes, you are right about times and circumstances changing,
A.M. I felt sad for a moment, realizing it'd be very
unlikely I'd have a "50th anniversary", even if WH and I
reconciled, as I didn't get married until I was 35. But,
then I wasn't the least bit interested in getting married
at 19 (as did last night's "bride") and had lots of life
experiences in the meantime- my only regret with waiting
that long was that it shortened my "window" for having kids
and as it turned out, I never got the chance.
Lady, I don't know why WH has tried to call a couple of
times (he does not know that I know he has filed), but last
year, in the same circumstances, when he knew that I did
know, he continued to call every couple/few days and act
friendly, which certainly doesn't make sense and isn't how
I'd think a "normal" person would act ! Also, rather than
"rubbing it in", being mean or vindictive, or acting like
he wanted to reject me, he was more like "Oh, we can always
cancel it anytime", like he was really unsure of what to
do but perhaps had to appease OW, or just did it without
much thought. (and kinda "casual")
I assumed this was more of his "cake-eating" (detach from
me some, but not TOO much and keep me interested in case it
didn't work out with OW), his not being sure what he wanted
to do, his appeasing the OW, or just more of his WS, foggy, non-logic and illness. (or all of the above !)
I'm not planning to talk to him anyway, though, and will
stay in Plan B. I realize that we've been through this same
pattern and cycle before and the only chance of breaking
the pattern and changing the results is to change the only
thing I can control: my behavior and my reaction to him.
Last year I did do all the "usual" BS stuff, like trying
to "make a case" for our M by reminding him of his vows,
our history, good memories, plans we had, guilt, telling
him how things could change for the better, trying to get
him to go to MC, etc... and we know the result- the A has
continued off/on for many more months, and he is still in
the fog. Seems like I need to take the "opposite" approach
now, with no comment, no begging, pleading, or reminding
him of all the things he knows already anyway, and letting
him WONDER why, if I have really let him go, and see how D
would be.
Technically and legally, a D would be quite short and simple
since there's no grounds or fault and we have little left to
be "split". WH knows that I held my ground for my fair share
on our previous issues (selling our land, tax refund, etc)
and I definitely wouldn't be backing down on what's left.
Thanks for the prayers and support.
Slammed
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I was very stunned, but tried to keep
my wits, and had a brief conversation, that went something
like this:
Me: What is this ?
WH: It's the divorce paperwork- we need to get it done.
ME: I don't want us to get divorced, as you know.
WH: Well, I'm sorry, but I don't want to be married. I want
to be on my own, do my own thing, and get on with my life.
ME: I wish that you'd just be honest and say that you want
to be with OW- obviously you are still involved with her.
WH: Well, that's none of your business, and has nothing to
do with this.
ME: Of course it has to do with this- it's the whole reason
for everything that has happened. If you'd end it, we could
have a fresh start.
WH: I don't want a fresh start, I don't want this, I don't
want to be with you. It's been a long time since I was happy
in this marriage or with you. I care about you and Gracie
(dog), but I don't love you like you need to, to be married.
I don't know if I ever really loved you "like that". (ouch)
I think you always thought things were going well, that we
were having fun and doing things, but it really wasn't that
way to me.
ME: I realize you don't feel that way now, but you did before and could again. You don't now, because of your A with OW, but if you'd end it I think your feelings would
change drastically. We never had any big problems, just
some small things we could change, which with love, time,
forgiveness and patience could really make a difference.
We could get back to a happy life for a family that now
has two dogs. (tried to sound cheerful)
WH: (Getting frustrated and/or mad) I don't care about any
of that, it's done, I've distanced myself from you and the
dog, I've made up my mind, and nothing you can say or do is
going to change it. I want to move on, do my own thing, not
have ties or obligations. I'm tired of talking about it,
I'm tired of you saying the same things, I'm tired of us
arguing about it.
ME: What about going to counseling ?
WH: There's no point in that- you aren't listening to what
I am telling you. Accept it. Get a life, grow up, get over
it and move on. (repeated this several times).
ME: I am listening to what you are saying, WH, but I don't
agree with you and feel that a divorce is the wrong thing
to do, and disaster we'd both have to live with forever.
We were best friends for 11 years, I can't imagine not
being able to talk about funny little things the dogs do,
go on trips together, share our little jokes and give each
other support and love, like we used to.
WH: Well, that's just how life is.
ME: Are you really willing to give all that, your home, your family, all that we had up, for someone you barely know and don't see for what/how she really is ?
I'm very sorry if you felt unhappy or discontent, and I
have always felt like it has to be at least partly due to
your illnesses, not all because of me or the marriage.
WH: I disagree, and it really doesn't matter anyway.
ME: I wish I would have known how you felt, or you would have been willing to talk or do something about it, not get
involved with another person. All that relationship has
seemed to bring you is more disaster, WH, and you still
don't seem like you are happy or content.
WH: I'm fine. And you need to get over this, on your own.
ME: IF you insist on doing something, why don't we do a LS ?
WH: No, I don't want a seperation, I want this to be over.
It's dragged on way too long as it is.
ME: Are you doing this because you've been thinking about it, sitting on the fence and not knowing what to do for so
long now, and had to decide something ? I think it's the
wrong decision, WH. Or is it an ultimatum from OW, who is
so determined to have you and get married ? What, is she
pregnant again ? (I know, shouldn't have said it, but I
was getting mad and upset and it came out).
WH: (didn't comment about remark) Just said "I need to get
back to work, and you need to get the paperwork signed and
notarized so I can file it. If you won't do it, then I'll
have to take it downtown, file it, and have it served, which
is stupid when it just costs us both more.
Then, he left. I shut the door, felt sick, sat on the floor
and cried until I was exhausted. Know I probably said more
than I should have and that trying to talk reasonably or
logically with a WS doesn't get anywhere, but I felt like
I needed to say how I felt. Hi slammed, This is the type of talk you need to beware of. This type of talk feeds his conceited ego, and poisons your soul. Remember his heart is "hardened" and there is nothing you can do about it, but stay out of his abusive way. I do believe he is calling to "let you know" he filed, and yes "rub it in." And to get a response from you. You don't need to give him one. Let him wonder. You owe him no talk about your feelings, desires, goals for the future anymore, he knows. Now...let all talk be between lawyers. Let go and let God. And let your husband pay the penalty due him. God will judge fornicators and adulterers, stay out of the way when God does the judging. Blessings, Lady
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I was very stunned, but tried to keep
my wits, and had a brief conversation, that went something
like this:
Me: What is this ?
WH: It's the divorce paperwork- we need to get it done.
ME: I don't want us to get divorced, as you know.
WH: Well, I'm sorry, but I don't want to be married. I want
to be on my own, do my own thing, and get on with my life.
ME: I wish that you'd just be honest and say that you want
to be with OW- obviously you are still involved with her.
WH: Well, that's none of your business, and has nothing to
do with this.
ME: Of course it has to do with this- it's the whole reason
for everything that has happened. If you'd end it, we could
have a fresh start.
WH: I don't want a fresh start, I don't want this, I don't
want to be with you. It's been a long time since I was happy
in this marriage or with you. I care about you and Gracie
(dog), but I don't love you like you need to, to be married.
I don't know if I ever really loved you "like that". (ouch)
I think you always thought things were going well, that we
were having fun and doing things, but it really wasn't that
way to me.
ME: I realize you don't feel that way now, but you did before and could again. You don't now, because of your A with OW, but if you'd end it I think your feelings would
change drastically. We never had any big problems, just
some small things we could change, which with love, time,
forgiveness and patience could really make a difference.
We could get back to a happy life for a family that now
has two dogs. (tried to sound cheerful)
WH: (Getting frustrated and/or mad) I don't care about any
of that, it's done, I've distanced myself from you and the
dog, I've made up my mind, and nothing you can say or do is
going to change it. I want to move on, do my own thing, not
have ties or obligations. I'm tired of talking about it,
I'm tired of you saying the same things, I'm tired of us
arguing about it.
ME: What about going to counseling ?
WH: There's no point in that- you aren't listening to what
I am telling you. Accept it. Get a life, grow up, get over
it and move on. (repeated this several times).
ME: I am listening to what you are saying, WH, but I don't
agree with you and feel that a divorce is the wrong thing
to do, and disaster we'd both have to live with forever.
We were best friends for 11 years, I can't imagine not
being able to talk about funny little things the dogs do,
go on trips together, share our little jokes and give each
other support and love, like we used to.
WH: Well, that's just how life is.
ME: Are you really willing to give all that, your home, your family, all that we had up, for someone you barely know and don't see for what/how she really is ?
I'm very sorry if you felt unhappy or discontent, and I
have always felt like it has to be at least partly due to
your illnesses, not all because of me or the marriage.
WH: I disagree, and it really doesn't matter anyway.
ME: I wish I would have known how you felt, or you would have been willing to talk or do something about it, not get
involved with another person. All that relationship has
seemed to bring you is more disaster, WH, and you still
don't seem like you are happy or content.
WH: I'm fine. And you need to get over this, on your own.
ME: IF you insist on doing something, why don't we do a LS ?
WH: No, I don't want a seperation, I want this to be over.
It's dragged on way too long as it is.
ME: Are you doing this because you've been thinking about it, sitting on the fence and not knowing what to do for so
long now, and had to decide something ? I think it's the
wrong decision, WH. Or is it an ultimatum from OW, who is
so determined to have you and get married ? What, is she
pregnant again ? (I know, shouldn't have said it, but I
was getting mad and upset and it came out).
WH: (didn't comment about remark) Just said "I need to get
back to work, and you need to get the paperwork signed and
notarized so I can file it. If you won't do it, then I'll
have to take it downtown, file it, and have it served, which
is stupid when it just costs us both more.
Then, he left. I shut the door, felt sick, sat on the floor
and cried until I was exhausted. Know I probably said more
than I should have and that trying to talk reasonably or
logically with a WS doesn't get anywhere, but I felt like
I needed to say how I felt. Hi slammed, This is the type of talk you need to beware of. This type of talk feeds his conceited ego, and poisons your soul. Remember his heart is "hardened" and there is nothing you can do about it, but stay out of his abusive way. I do believe he is calling to "let you know" he filed, and yes "rub it in." And to get a response from you. You don't need to give him one. Let him wonder. You owe him no talk about your feelings, desires, goals for the future anymore, he knows. Now...let all talk be between lawyers. Let go and let God. And let your husband pay the penalty due him. God will judge fornicators and adulterers, stay out of the way and let God do the judging now. Blessings, Lady
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Posts: 782 |
Thanks, Lady.
Guess I thought I had to give it one more try, that maybe
I could say something "differently", or hit just the "magic"
button that would turn WH back to the H I always knew.
Realized though, as soon as I did it, that there was no
point, and that nothing seems to get through to the foggy,
addicted heart/mind of the WS.
I know too, that without a doubt, WH is fully, completely
aware of how I feel and what I think. Perhaps I have made
him TOO sure I love him, want to reconcile, think things
could work out, and this has contributed to his "cake-eater"
attitude ?
Perhaps he has called wanting to tell me he filed, rather
than just waiting until I got served, or knowing how he has
been in the past, may have just said he wanted to call to
say "hello", "touch base", ask about the dog, my job hunt,
etc. and not said a word about the paperwork or D.
My IC has said that WH seems not to be able to ever be the
"bad guy", so maybe this is what this is all about- he does
the paperwork, but acts friendly and nice, so he can think
it's "okay", not so bad, not so dishonest and cowardly, and
he doesn't have to be "the bad guy" after all.
Perhaps he can fool himself into thinking that, and then the
lying, cheating, abandoning his family, and hurtful things
he's said and done must all be okay too, huh.
Well, those who count, will know the truth, and deep down
I'd think he really does too.
The next thing in the D process is a mandatory conference
with a "facilitator", who basically just explains process
and answers questions- that is probably in about a month or
so. Won't be any need to see or talk to WH until that occurs
and having been through it before, I don't have questions
anyway. In the meamtime, I'm just going to have to work
even harder on finding a job and taking care of me.
I feel so small, isolated and alone right now.
How can one person become so important to you that their
absence leaves you feeling this way ?
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AM said: Make the best of whatever happens. I like that. (((((Slammed)))))
I made it happen..a joyful life..filled with peace, contentment, happiness and fabulocity.
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Hi slammed,
I hope your feeling better today. I know it's flabberghasting to see the one you have given your love and heart to for years, just walk away with no care, love or concern.
But I do think the best is yet to come for you slammed.
You don't see it now, but it may be a blessing he is out of your life.
He has not been honest your entire marriage I believe. You see men with his illness/split personality/addictions can live a lie for so long, and get over on so many people, and in the end say he was never happy to begin with....and walk away. Men like him are actors, and professional manipulators/intimidators trying to never look like the "bad guy," that he really is. Yes most WS have that personality, but one with bipolar/addictions it's much worse. There's more to overcome....more pain!!! The emotional wounds will be one after the other on you.
My advice to many women is this, "never marry a man that has bipolar/addiction problems." It will be ****** on earth if he doesn't know the Lord. The danger is...they can run at any time. I know because I have married one, the difference is my husband knows God and God has done wonderful things in his life. I have seen much recovery with him, and I have seen much unnecessary pain. Medications don't cure the problem. Marriage recovery and addiction recovery is much more difficult for one who is not open to God, and other support groups/accountability partners. I couldn't imagine what it would be like if he didn't know God, and have the church/groups to lean on. It's been difficult here slammed and I wouldn't wish this hurt on any woman/children. The ups and downs are crazy to live with, but we are doing fine/stable at this time.
Go forward with your life. Tell yourself there is much more for you....because there is!!!
Love and huggs,
Lady
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Thanks Lady, for your continued support and prayers.
I realize I may have to live with the consequences of WH's
choice if the divorce goes through, but it is my hearfelt
desire, hope, and prayer to reconcile and rebuild our life and marriage.
The majority of our years together (married 8, together 11)
have been the happiest of my life, with a H who was then
kind, honest, caring, sensitive, worked hard, tried hard,
wanted to please and make me happy, had the same goals and
desires, and truly loved me.
After his initial (and incorrect) diagnosis with depression
several years ago and all the subsequent medications he
tried and counseling he attended, I saw him really struggle
and realized how much hurt, low self esteem, isolation and
sadness he felt, and admired him for trying to get help.
I've also prayed many, many times for his healing from his
illness(es).
No way to know if H has had this illness many years but been
able to "control" it, if it's gotten enough worse by lack
of treatment and wrong medication (Ad's), or if his current
condition is a combination of illness(es), addictions, his
family issues, and MLC, as well as the affair FOG, but what
has been hardest for me is not having any way to know if
he will ever be the same person, the H, I knew.
I know that his illness(es) are not considered curable,
and will take medication, monitoring and therapy for a long
time, probably forever. Without the adultery, I was more
than willing to have that as part of our lives and would
have gladly been supportive and helpful in any way I could.
I saw the enormous change in WH's mood, attitude and even
personality when firt put on the right meds, and was brought
to tears when he said he felt the best he had felt "for as
long as he could remember", so know that that the right meds
can be very helpful. Unfortunately, those meds quit working
after a short time, and WH has not pursued changing meds and
/or dosage with his psych. since then, has just continued
to take some that help slightly. I also felt the IC he began
seeing early this year was helpful at first, really able to
pinpoint some of WH's family issues (which I didn't know
about), the reason he has many of the traits and habits he
has now, and ways to work on those issues, but once the IC
turned into the court-ordered alcohol "therapy" it seemed
to lose it's effectiveness too. Seems he's back in the same
old situation as he has been, and until something drastic
happens again (like DUI), he's just going to continue on
the same way...
I would make the same suggestions as you- as far as not
marrying a person with these devesatating illnesses, since
marriage is already tough, and this just makes it all the
more difficult. Don't know if I would have married H myself
had I known about all the family issues and his illnesses,
but they didn't show themselves at all for a long time.
I hope that he will find the strength, courage and energy
and something will be his incentive to work on overcoming
these things which have really handicapped him and made him
a miserable person for a long time now. I wish he knew God
like I do and could know what healing, blessings and love
would come to him through a closer relationship.
I'm doing okay today. It's still cool, but the sun is out
and I'm ready to go out and do some yardwork. I have had
some fluctuation in my moods, from feeling that WH really
will go through with D this time and feeling devestated and
crushed by that, to feeling things can still change and
having some hope. I guess both are to be expected.
Slammed
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