I guess I was not ready to post today, I knew against my better judgement not to post today but I did anyway. I am sorry. Yes you are right I do not deserve JE. Lostone

but you can and will....as soon as you realize she is waiting....she is waiting for you to stand up and be a man. you can do this....you came here didnt you. you want help---you just dont want to face the reality of it. i am sorry for the harshness of the last post....but....sometimes a wake up call is in order.lol that was yours. i am sure you are still going through withdrawal...that is why i asked you about the neighbor and how you felt....you played it off as no big deal....what i felt from you was you wished it was you that ran away with the OP. guess what---if im feeling it...i am sure je is feeling it too. you have got to deal with this.....it is now a permanant part of your history.....it will always be there. but guess what....with a great counselour and a plan for the future....it will still be there but not at the forefront of everything you both do. it can happen, if my hubby did it anyone can....unfortunately i waited over three years and gave up and asked him to leave and made him go...i was done. it was only then that he woke up and realized ignoring it wasnt gonna work. the only thing he gained by ignoring it was a severely damaged wife and more work than if it was dealt with from the get-go. please dont leave here and please dont run....if your like him running is going to be high on your list right now.....i do want to help but you also need a plan....and the want to be different....get the counseling and do it right...you both do. man, she loves you....somewhere in there she still loves you....dont throw that away again...

Nikko,
I am here, yes i wanted to walk away for a few days and not post till then, but no I am a man, and yes i will step up! And yes I do need a wake-up call sometimes. And yes as you say the neighbor thing, is no I did not wish I ran off with the OW, although I know it would be much easier doing that. What I was thinking is JE was or is wishing I would do it as to relieve her. I am sorry I feel that way but I think sometimes she wishes i would take the easy way out and give up! I do not want or even think about running away to the OW. I did tell JE a couple of days ago if we did split that I might call the OW to see how she is doing. She asked me so I told her honestly and openly!

I know I need help with a plan, and I hope you can help me. I also know this is and always will be a part of my history as with my other failures in my other marriages. I can deal with that and have dealt with it.

I have told JE many times how much easier it would be to call it quits and just move on our separate ways. this is by far the hardest thing I have ever done!!

I do really thinks she loves me, at least i tell me that. That is what keeps me going, but honestly when she tells me she doesn't and that she is afraid she won't ever, let me tell you it is hard to stay focused on recovery. And yes i sometimes do think about taking the easy way out and saying we have had enough. So until I know for sure her love I will be like this. Am I wrong? Lostone

P.S. I changed the title of my post to FWH.

"I did tell JE a couple of days ago if we did split that I might call the OW to see how she is doing. She asked me so I told her honestly and openly!"

Well, that was a great one. ANY woman would be furious at a remark like that. It sounds like you just need anyone, whoever is the easiest. Yuck!

No, I don't mean it like that!!! We were talking and she asked me If I ever thought about her and if I would ever contact her if something happened between us? I told her that honestly I think about her very rarely, but I'd be lying if I said I didn't ever. And that I really didn't know if I would contact her if something happened between us, I thought about it a bit then said maybe I would. It's not like I came out of the blue and said if we split this is what I'd do! It is a hypotheatcal question, but I answered as honestly as I could and yes I know it sounds awful. I also told her I think about my ex wives and girlfriends from way back when also occasionally. I think we all do, then again maybe I am wrong or just wierd, hmmmmm. Sorry to make it sound so bad, but there was no correct answer, she just wanted my honest answer. Lostone

Lostone, you worry me a bit.

You don't seem to be getting it.

You seem to want it to all just go away and then you won't have to look over your shoulder to see if JE's watching you.

It doesn't work like that.

You have done a very, very great wrong to JE. Can't you see that? I saw it immediately when d-day came around. I admit it took me about 3 or 4 months to stop saying incredibly insensitive things but I WAS trying. I didn't purposely escalate the hurt - but I was still foggy and things would slip out.

NOTHING like you said to JE though.

Once I'd found MB it turned me completely around. You have the benefit of MB now and some of it should be getting through.

lost one....if you are gonna learn anything.....learn it from kiwi!!! she is a former ww. she has walked in your shoes.....i havent. i have been in your wife's. if kiwi is willing to help you----LISTEN UP!!!! she turned her situation around and is happily married to her hubby once again. she can help you with what you are going through and feeling. please dont go away for a few days....work through it...it hurts and sucks but you have to go through it....we all do. we care about you and je and want it to work out for you guys.....please stay with us...

gonna just keep bumping this up^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^lol

Another FWS piping in here. For heaven's sake, if you want to save your M, why don't you want to go through MC? Do you view it as some kind of torture or punishment or something? Are you afraid that you will be ganged up on because you're the FWS? I can assure you that a good MC will act as a neutral party who will listen to both of you, evaluate your sitch, and provide the tools you need to better communicate and work through the issues. It works beyond the IC.

According to your sig line, your D-day was 10 months ago. You say you both know what you need to do. Well in the words of Dr. Phil, "How's that workin' out for ya?" Doesn't sound like it's working out that well.

Please check into MC for the sake of your M. And if the provider codes it properly, it might even be covered by your health policy.

Nikko,
Thanks for trying to keep me here. I really do need to be here but I think I must give this a break for a bit. It seems all my spare time is here and it is overloading my little brain. It seems the more I try the more it is not working. JE is on here all the time too, and she is impatient, very !!!! She is chatting with some people that are chatting with me and I really don't know if this is good or not. I know now I must be very selective on what I post and say as it is taken wrong in the past. What JE and I talk about in private I think I will keep it inside as when I posted what was said sounded awful. I can only answer to her openly and honestly, no right or wrong. Then again maybe you all are right and I am just not getting it!!

I do know I am having a very hard time being in love with someone who says she don't love me and probably will not ever again. I am sorry but I truly can not get over this! I know I caused all of this, but I do need something to hold on to with. Just a glimpse of hope would help. I really do truly thinks she loves me and she does show it, but dang, I would love to hear those three words again.

Has anyone out there ever lived with and loved someone that don't love them???? I think sometimes I am crazy! I know this takes time, but now maybe I am the impatient one.

If I can get by this I can do anything!!! So I think I have to back off here for a bit and take a breather.

On the subject of MC, it's just we both had a bad experience with one before, but given the sitch at the time its understandable.

OK I got to go for now, I may be back sooner, we'll see, sorry just having a bad couple of days!! Maybe a chemical imbalance upstairs, LOL Lostone

i havent forgotten you----are you ready yet????

wow--that fell down a few pages fast....back up^^^^^^^

Lostone, perhaps JE is still too protective of her heart to say those words yet. Having been on both sides of the affair I can tell you how hard it is to love someone who not only doesn't say they love you but doesn't show it by their actions. So count yourself lucky that JE is showing she loves you even if she can say those three little words yet.

As for MC. Go! This is your time to prove to your W that you mean business. This is your chance to change. I don't think there will be anymore chances after this Lost. Go for it fully. Embrace the recovery process.