Your marriage is today. V day is just another day. So if she is willing to put recovery on hold for V day..... you gotta wonder what else is she gonna put her M on hold for? Another OM?

BTW, V-day for her is t/b with who?!?!?!? OM? You?

Do you really want t/b a # in her A book?

I think not but hey, I'm not you. If I were you, I'd be quite offended at her demands and make a few of your own..... get your children, MIL and everyone else on your side. Make life miserable for the WS so you WIFE can come home.

The WS is the one physically, emotionally and mentally in your home. Get her out and get your wife back.

STOP enabling the WS, every time you do that, you are hurting your wife.

L.

I am still working my way through the other post so, if I miss something, I apologize. You just said that family and most friends know. In the other post, you say WW wants to end the A to protect MIL and FIL. Protect them from what? If everybody knows, how can they be hurt? Something is missing something in this picture.

You should go read up on the five stages of grief. It sounds like you are doing a lot of bargaining and that gives your WW a lot of advantages. The sooner you get away from that, the better off you will both be.

I am a little bugged about the story with FIL in the car. I am not surprised that FIL would be a little upset about you swatting his hand. I am surprised that they all seem to dwell on it so. It makes me think there is something more there. Don't know why I think that. I know my WW brought up "trivial" incidents that happened 7 or 8 years ago.

I also get the impression that you want to get this all fixed and put it in the past. For you, the only way to do that is to talk about it with WW. If that is what you are doing, you may need to back off. As long as she is in the fog, you are not going to have a very intelligent conversation. It may be that you continually bring this all up because of how you are coping with the grief. I don't know. The bottom line is that you may have to back off talking about the A and focus instead on your best Plan A.

FWIW, my family asked me what they could do to help me in my sitch. I told them to basically shut up. I said if they wanted to help, they should just surf this site and learn. My mother did exactly that and she emailed me the link to your other post last week. I printed it out and put it on my desk and have been reading it when I can. Unfortunately I have been off-site all week in an emergency tender evaluation. I'll get back to reading it this morning.

The reason my mother sent me your link is that you and I are apparently in a very similar situation. I want to find out why she thinks that.

Do you have any idea who your WW's enablers are? I am sure she has them.

In my personal sitch, when I was in the bargaining stage, I would have done anything to keep WW from leaving. Later, when I got past all of that, I got to the point where I could not get WW to leave. I begged her to leave at times. I couldn't figure out what to do to get her out of the house. I think I said in my post that getting her to leave was like trying to put a cat in a bathtub to give it a bath. She would grab anything and everything to avoid it. We are still there although I don't try to make her leave any more.

You sound like you are afraid that if you make one wrong turn, the M is over. I don't think that is true. I will go read some more.

Remember to focus on yourself. Plan A is not making your WW fall in love with you. You can't control that.

I don't think your WW's email was a "last warning". I think it was an opening bid - albeit a laughable one. Even so, there may be something in it that has a grain of truth. My WW's family told each of us to "dejar la fiesta in paz". In other words, don't talk about it so much. That may be the one thing in your WW's email that you should think about just a little. Don't create confrontation. You already have enough without any additional help and it is a LB.

I read everybody’s posts and am so grateful for being privileged to do that.

Orchid,
I am so sorry but I couldn’t find on MB what V day stands for. I apologize.
I was offended by her demands as much as you were. I actually laughed out loud when I read them. My work colleague asked me what happened. She told me that she didn’t see me smiling (not talking about laughing) in 5 weeks. I know her demands are ridiculous. Every single one. But hey, am I in the position to complain right now? I am just a door mat, right? About the children. It looks like that here, in Canada, the law tends to leave the children with their mothers. Another colleague at work (who had two kids) went back home one day and found a letter from his WW telling him that she took off with another man. Even though she left her home and her kids she got shared custody!!! And now, after six years, she drags her ex H in court to get full custody. How fair is this?

Traicionado,
I am not talking to my W about the email she sent me. Just waiting for her to make the first step.

Anyways. Here is today’s wedding story.
We atend the church ceremony. My W smiled sarcastically when they made the commitment and never said a prayer. This was not my W. I know her. She is religious (not much but every time she stepped into a church she would say at least one prayer). At want point of time, the groom (my friend) looked into my eyes and asked me if we were going to come to the restaurant anymore. I realized that he new about the A. At the restaurant, I tried to have a good time and I had. I danced all night, even though my wife gave up relatively quick. We were OK in the beginning, but after a while my W got grumpy. We danced together in the beginning but after a while she claimed her feet killed her. I said OK and took other lady friends to dance. All of a sudden she got upset (grumpy). I didn’t randomly choose the ladies but asked the ones who were close to me and I was not sure whether or not they knew about the A. I found out that basically everybody knew. They all looked in a different way at my W. And I am sure she noticed that.
Now, was my W upset because I had a good time or because my friends looked at her in a certain way? I don’t know, but we left before the party was over because my W was “tired”.

I did everything by the book. Got to the bar to get her a drink, danced with her, asked her if she wanted anything else and so on. I will sleep well tonight knowing that I did my best today to save my M. Maybe my WW doesn’t think so but I do

Hey Adrianc, good on you for your handling of the wedding.

I really don't post much these days, but do check in once in a while to check on how some of the folks are doing. But, somehow I clicked into your thread and I just felt compelled to jump in with my 2 cents.

As a Canadian Dad who's been through the family court wringer, I can attest to the fact that indeed Fathers get short changed by the courts. The good news is that things are changing... depending on the province you live in, and providing you get a REALLY good lawyer, and handle everything right, you do stand a chance. In fact, I might recommend that you set to work finding on. Very carefully and quietly, I might add... but the key to surviving in the Canadian Family Court system is EXTREME preparedness.

The sense I get from reading the contents of your wife's email is that she has an over inflated sense of entitlement. We all know how ridiculous that is, but it's important to realize that it's also extremely dangerous.

I'd say you're getting some pretty good advice here, so mostly I'd just back up what's already been said.

Mostly though, I'd strongly urge you to avoid being dragged into any drama with her. You remaining silent in response to her email is a pretty good example of what I mean. The kind of drivel in that message is very hard not to get riled up about.

In my opinion, the key here is to disregard the inflammatory [email]cr@p[/email] she's giving you and decipher the real issues contained within. There's information in there that you can use to assess your contribution to the state of things as they stand there, and if you can identify those issues and subtly make those changes within you, you will be one step closer to being an attractive choice to her.

Which brings me to the next point... which is all about respect.

Seems to me that a major recurrent theme in cases of infidelity and failing marriages (and I've been posting and reading here since 1999) is respect, or the loss thereof.

If I had to give you just one piece of advice, one suggestion, it would be to work on respect. Self respect comes first, and with it comes boundries which lead to gaining the respect of others.

Now, I'm posting like a madman. It's late, and my fingers are flying while my brain tries to keep up, so you may have to bear with me and weed through the nonsense... (uh, you could consider it as practice <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />)

The point is, start doing things and acting in ways that will help you respect yourself. Your wife's respect will follow. Not getting sucked into a discussion over her insane demands is a good example. Not being clingy is another good one. Showing that you are resilient and strong and able to be in good humour despite her continued betrayals is another way. In my opinion, this is a key component to a solid Plan A.

Anyway, I'm gonna sign off before I ramble myself into complete gibberish.

Take er easy, m'man.

John

I am about 2/3 through your original thread. I have been making underlines and am now going back through them. Keep in mind that I am almost in the same situation you are so I am giving this to you from that perspective – not from someone who has successfully recovered a marriage. Before I get into my highlights, I want to say one thing that may be a bit harsh but it not intended to demean you in any way and is only intended in the spirit of help. You remind me of (me actually…) the old Sylvester cartoon where the bulldog walks confidently down the street with his spiked collar, red sweater and hat (your WW) and the little dog jumping and bouncing (you) all around him saying "what do you want to do Butch?", "where should we go Butch?", etc. You really need to stop that.

Now, if I haven't totally pissed you off, read on…

1/12 – You wife says she needs time. She wants time to explore the affair but she is not explaining it to you that way.

1/12 – Forget the carrot and the stick because you are not at a place where you can implement it. That may come later.

1/14 – You cannot meet her EN's because she does not want you to. She also won't tell you what they are. You have to take your best shot at figuring out what they are and work on changing you. Forget about her for the moment,

Sent her a dozen roses. Why on Earth would you do that? Haven't you learned anything from the carrot and the stick that I just told you to ignore? You should reward good behavior – not bad behavior.

1/14 – She doesn't want me to meet her EN's. You are probably right. Forget about it for the time being. She is in love with OM and wants him to meet her EN's. You will not be able to meet her EN's until she establishes NC.

The roses are her language. Forgive me but the OM knows her language better than you.

I can't be happy if we don't talk about our issues – then choose not to be happy. She is nowhere near ready to talk about your issues.

I am soooo afraid. Of what? That you might face a future without a lying, adulterous witch at your side? Don't be.

How come she can laugh and make jokes? Because she is not the one who is emotionally destroyed. She is a woman in love. She is, for the most part, happy.

My wife hates his wife – Why not? The OMW has a controlling influence over the man she loves. Jealousy comes to mind.

1/15 – I was crying while I was telling her. Good. She should know that she is hurting people.
1/15 – if we want our relationship to work, then we have to talk about it. Yes – eventually. But maybe not just yet. I will get fragged for saying this but that is one problem I have with SAA. We BS's read it, we want to fix our M, move to R and this is the road map. All well and good but we finish the book in one or two days and try to implement its plan in about the same amount of time. It didn't take two days for you WW to get into an A and you will not R in two days either. Stop wanting to talk so much.

1/17 – What do you think has changed in 10 days? She hit the nail on the head. Nothing has changed.

She looked down and said "yes, honey". Breaking eye contact is one sign of lying. She told you what she thought you wanted to hear to shut you up. She didn't really mean it.

You change is affect by the insecure future – I don't understand that. Why should it? If you need to change to be a better person/better husband, it shouldn't matter what the future hold for you and WW. If you remarry, don't you still want those positive changes? Focus on you and not what you think WW wants you to be.

I don't fully comprehend your living conditions just yet but, if you don't live with your wife's family, they sure hang around a lot. You need to keep them out. It sounds like you are both young. One thing I suspect about my WW is that she not only lost connection with me, I am not sure she ever really connected to her family (i.e. you and the kids). It sound like MIL has been almost as much a mother as WW. What is that thing about leaving mother and father and cleaving to spouse? (I also admit I don't really know what "cleave" means – will look that up on Google in a minute). You, wife and kids are "the family" or at least should be.

1/19 – Would you believe me if I told you I came back home to stay with you? I hope not. Your WW has no idea why she is doing the things she does but she certainly does not BELIEVE she wants to be with you. Perception is everything. There is "reality" and there is your WW's reality. Yours means nothing to her. Fog effect. Ignore it.

1/20 – The pain I would suffer if she left – I'll get back to that one. You are still into denial and bargaining. More in a minute

Anything I could do to make things better for her – Excuse me but you have this backwards. Stop bouncing around like the little dog. She should be making things better for you. She won't but that is another matter.

After a while her parents and brother came back home – Do they live with you (or you with them?) Can you find some other living arrangements? You need some distance.

She was able to laugh really loud – Good. You want her to be happy. If she is miserable all the time, she will choose to leave.

BTW, I keep reading where you see the WW chatting with OM and you walk away. You hear her get a phone call and you go down to make her a cup of coffee so she can have privacy. What is wrong with you??? Make it very clear that you may not be able to prevent her continuing the A (and make it clear that continued contact is exactly that) but you will not condone it under your roof and around your children. If she refuses to hang up, sit down beside her and wait till she finishes to go get that cup of coffee for her. You are making this far too easy for her.

1/20 talking about our future – that is both good and bad. Be careful with it.

Everything there was a perfect match – yes there is nothing new under the Sun. The good news is that many people have gone through this before and will in the future. There is hope. Now that you have read SAA, hide it away for a while. You run the risk of trying to become the people in the book and, when things don't work out exactly as per the book, you get frustrated. Don't throw the book away – just don't refer to it daily.

Based on what I have learned in the past few days – You are still bargaining.

Just pure love – what is your definition of pure love? This is just an honest question because I am curious – it is not a criticism.

She is hiding something from me. – Absolutely and don’t ever forget it. Just don't worry about it.

Put herself in my shoes – Waste of time. She will not understand so don't make her try.

1/21 – 74 more days- hmmm, yes it is good to give yourself time. In my opinion, that time is for you and you alone. You should be doing positive things during that time and continuing a solid Plan A but the most important thing is how you will change over the next 74 days. Think about that time as being for your benefit and it will go more easily.

Calmly asked her if everything was ok – Why? Nothing is okay. Leave her to her thoughts. You cannot fix those for her. You are appearing weak and giving her way too much control.

Maybe I should go by myself – No doubt. Go.

Right now she's calling OM – and you are still allowing that?

1/21 She was on the phone for about three hours (see previous comment)

1/21 Even though my wife says I have no respect for them. – Whether it is true or not, you WW believe it to be true and that is all that matters.

She told me she no longer sees OM and I believe her – Why on Earth would you believe her?
Don't ask me what I read…to painful. – Post it on the WWW. Tell the world. Show it to family and friends. You don't have to read it – let the rest of the world read it. Make it painful for WW – not for you.

1/22 We sat for a while..kissed her…She didn't say anything. Good for you.

I knew it was the OM but I ignored it. – WHAT???? EARTH CALLING ADRIANC!!!!!

1/24 OM is bombarding her with love messages…don't know if I should continue. Just my opinion but don't continue. If you fight a toe-to-toe battle with this OM you will lose because he has the advantage that she is in love with him and not you. This is a battle not worth fighting. Spend your energy elsewhere. Chose your battles more wisely.

1/24 Did she really care about me or was she just being polite? Forget about it. What difference does it make? Wait – the fact that you seem to think it makes a difference is a big part of your problem right now. (I know that is harsh – sorry).

1/25 Forget about the OM. He is not your problem. Your WW is your problem. Do you think that if OM and OMW decide to restore their marriage that your problems go away? Not! I don't care if the OM leaves his wife, moves in next door and serenades your WW from the street every night. He is not your problem. Leave it alone.

1/26 I do believe she still loves me. – The only thing that matters is if you still love her. If you do, keep going. Don't concern yourself with your WW's feelings because her world and our world exist in different planes right now. What you need is time. In physics terms, marital recovery is a state function. That means it doesn't matter how you got there. If you are not too scientifically minded then I will give you the golf analogy (living in Canada, I am guessing you don't play too much golf either). Here goes: I was playing golf with a guy once and he teed off into the trees, then went into a greenside bunker, pitched out and over the green and chipped in for par. My comment was "what an ugly way to play a hole!". His response was "they don't draw pictures on scorecards". Point accepted.

I don't know if I would try to save the marriage if she didn't love me – then walk away now. Read my previous comment. Do you love your WW? Do you think you can make her happier than any man on Earth? Do you want your children to grow up in a solid home and surrounded by love? Keep working on R then. If your commitment to R depends on your wife's feeling, you have a tough row to hoe.

1/26 – HOW – By sticking with the plan A…. This is the most coherent thing you have said to-date. (except the bit about how you know WW still loves you).


1/27 I didn't tell her to stop yelling at them – Why on Earth not? Your WW is under a lot of stress and it is easy to take out frustration on the kids. Verbal abuse is still abuse. Just make sure WW treats the kids exactly like she always has. Don't let her change her behavior and vent on them. I have never hit my WW but I had to tell her I would do anything to her that she did to my DD's. That calmed her way down because she knows I am deadly serious.

1/27 We all know about the affair – I doubt that. Everyone knows who WW wants to know. She has been very selective about that because she is searching for enablers (besides you). Unfortunately you are a pretty big enabler. That will change with time so just do your best in the interim. I totally understand what you are feeling. I was there a very short time ago.

1/27 I CAN'T TAKE THIS ANY MORE… I do not want to get into a religious dialog but maybe someone finally has your attention. You will never be given a greater burden than you can bear. But you will be given as much as it takes to break you – to get your attention.

1/28 I don't know how to love her… yes. Well said. Now find out how you do need to love her. Maybe you made things too easy for her. I don't know. It sounds like you have never made her work very hard at your M. If you have to work for something, you appreciate it far more.

1/30 I looked into her eyes and … hated her… See? It has only been six days and you have already changed so much. First signs of anger. Good. You are progressing (positively).

I am seriously questioning…(more anger)

Everything is so fake…Absolutely. Well spotted.

2/1 It hasn't been you the past month….I want you to want to change… Okay this is the most coherent thing your WW has said so far. She nailed it on the head. You have not been trying to be you. You have been trying to be something you thought she wanted. She is spot on with this and it should be a wakeup call for you. The other message I read is that she WANTS you to do something. Why would she care if there was not a thought of R in her mind? This is both a red flag and a message of hope IMO.

Okay I have to stop here. The one thing I want to leave on is to remind you of your commitment to a date. 90 days was it? You may not realize it but you have progressed quite a lot in a very short time. You need those remaining days for you. Focus on you right now. Your WW is hanging around for a reason. Don't know what that is but I don't care either because it is irrelevant. She is there and as long as she is there you can remain on Plan A. Plan A is not always easy – especially in the anger stage. Just don't vent that anger to WW. Avoid LB's even though every fiber of your body tells you to do otherwise. You are just going to have to trust me on this. Remember I am only about two seconds in front of you but I can already see light at the end of the tunnel. I may not exit the tunnel with WW by my side but I can still see that it is a beautiful day outside. Don't quit now. Keep it up a little longer and you will have no regrets looking back.

Remember the cartoon about the bulldog and the little spaniel? Do you remember how it ends when the bulldog thinks the spaniel has whipped the cat?

adrianc,

You have been given some good advice; I will do my best to not subtract from it. I am DDay + 27 days. Still raw and all that. I got the speech from WW "I love you but I am not in love with you". Translation from Foganese to English: I am in love with the OM.

Since implementing Plan A, she now says she is in love with me. Problem? She is still in love with the OM. Apparently her heart is big enough for both of us. Even so, it will not hold both of us indefinitely. One will win. I plan to win.

How will I accomplish that goal?

By being the most consistent person I can be. Her emotions and actions have been all over the map. It will not help matters if I follow suit. I am able to meet many of her needs. I am staying calm and strong. I do disagree with traicionado on one point: try not to cry in front of her. Yes it is good that she knows she hurt you, but if you keep crying I believe it will backfire. After tears fell from my eyes during that first eventful week, my WW accused me of crying to get sympathy and to manipulate her. These WW have no logic; it's all about them and their intense need to refocus reality into their fantasy world. Most wives want to see their husbands as strong. Physically and emotionally strong. I am not justifying it, simply explaining it. The final portion of my strategy is to paint a bright future for the two of us. Notably, by omission, one that does not include the OM. I mixed a bright paint with ingredients such as moving to a resort community, plans for the kids, talk of future grandkids, buying her the convertible she wants and going back to Bermuda. Much of this will not happen until either we R or can see R throught the front windshield if such is possible. This gives her hope. Something to envision with the two of us. Just the two of us.

A similar plan for you is probably down the road. But be sure to heed the advice from others about what to do now.

ToddAC

I am not going to disagree with ToddC because he and I have had this debate before. I will say that showing emotions is not a sign of weakness. Ability to show emotion is a kind of strength all by itself. I guess it depends on how that is expressed. If you are bawling like a little baby, I tend to agree that is weak. If you are speaking about something and have tears in your eyes, that is a normal emotion. My WW has cut me to the bone. Telling her that does no good and is a LB anyway. Letting her see it, IMO, helps get the point across while avoiding a LB.

Now I finished reading from 2/3 to 2/10. I am a bit confused as to what all went on during that week but it is night and day.

I am not going to say much more right now but I still think MIL and FIL are not a good influence. Blood is thicker than water. Even if they are "on your side", they will always be an unknown quantity and highly unpredictable. If you do plan on separation or divorce, you need to get MIL out of the picture to show you are fully adequate to care for your children. What is this web site she is working on? Post the URL. Most web sites come with free email accounts. I would like to send her a PM.

Something you said when you asked your WW about what a typical day would be like. "Just like today. Wake up, go to work, come back home, feed the kids, go to bed!!!". That is probably how she has genuinely conditioned herself to feel. That helps justify the A in her mind but it is very likely the truth as she sees it. The A, on the other hand, is exciting and different and loads of fun.

Those activities are facts of marriage and they can be mundane. I think you need to also get your WW to play together with you and the kids. You all need to connect together as a family as well as just a couple. I don't think your WW truly values her family and I don't know how she got that way. (and I am speaking from some experience here)

Orchid: I like your attitude. U r gonna go far with a good attitude. Don't lose it.


Orchid: Sorry.....that's not an MB acronym, was just too lazy to type out 'valentine's day'.


Orchid: Good. At least you are not being fooled.


Orchid: U R NOT a doormat. U R in a position to complain and u should. IMHO.


Orchid: Often sad but true. Still document her unmotherly behavior. Prepare it and give it to your lawyer when needed. Even if the judge gives custody to the WS, pass the info and let it be in the court records that the judge was aware of the A and question his judgement. U won't be the only one.


Orchid: Hm.... she still thinks she can give you grief at your friend's wedding. How sad. R w/God is one of the 1st t/g. Very sad indeed. NOTE: NO ONE can fool God but the WS' sure try. Dummies.


Orchid: Good. He c/b part of your support team....AFTER he comes back from his honeymoon.


Orchid: Your support group just got bigger. BTW, expect the WS to claim she can't be friends with everyone since they know about the A. As a WS, she can't be trust nor be a friend but when she repents and others see you have forgiven her (providing her repentance is genuine), then others will follow suite.


Orchid: WS' don't like the BS to have any good time. Is that gonna stop u? Hope not. The WS had to show control so she made you leave before you were ready. Allow it sometimes and at others...... leave her hanging. The point is NOT to let the WS think they can call all the shots and you (the BS) will jump every time. Let her wonder if you will or choose NOT to jump. Basically, u will learn to jump when U R ready.


Orchid: Good. Glad you had a nice time and didn't allow the WS to ruin it all for you. She certainly did try, didn't she?!??!? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

I just finished reading traicionado's post...

Had to comment that was one of the best posts I've EVER read on this site.

Wow. The 2 dogs analogy was quite poignant. I was in that state at one point, too. I think I did quite a lot of damage of my own during that time. It certainly fed an emotional state that led to some very foolish decision making on my part.

J

Thank you all for your posts.

She woke up this morning in a bad mood.
I, on the other hand, woke up in a good mood, went out running. After I came back she asked me "were you out running?" Every day I run in the morning and every day she's asking me the same question.

She's now working on the website. She didn't want to go out with the kids or play with them.

I don't have the website address. Everything she has is on her computer. I don't know if she (together with the OM) bought a domain yet. I'll post the address if I find out what it is.

I am tired and don't know what to do anymore.

"I will say that showing emotions is not a sign of weakness."

We agree on this. My WW disagrees with us.

"Ability to show emotion is a kind of strength all by itself."

Again, we agree. Again, WW disagrees.

"I guess it depends on how that is expressed. If you are bawling like a little baby, I tend to agree that is weak."

How about choking up while you are talking? WW saw it as weak.

"Letting her see it, IMO, helps get the point across while avoiding a LB."

My WW is very cold these days. Uncharacteristically cold. I am content that you and I agree. Problem for me is that my WW doesn't.

ToddAC,

Let's keep in mind that there are cultural differences and Latinas view things differently. They are used to expect machismo. You and I have to be sensitive to that.

adrianc,

If you are tired, get some rest. I read a lot of positive things in your progression. I hope you can muster some strength and get back into the game. Give yourself a break if you need it but don't give up just yet. I think you are doing just fine.

You are right that you do not need a domain to have a web site. Almost all web sites are created locally and then uploaded via FTP. If it is all on her HD, she cannot be getting anyone's help to work on it unless they are sitting at the computer with her. I don't think you can do much efficient coding over a telephone. That would drive me to divorce if I had to do that with my wife.

I got the impression they were file sharing. Don't know why I thought that. If they are file sharing, they have to have a URL to load those files to. It could also be masked. That is easy enough to do.

As everybody knows I am doing plan A.
The letter my W sent me has only demands but also says that we will talk about our problem after Valentine’s Day. I don’t know what I should talk to her about? Maybe I should ask her for details about the websites she’s working on? Please give me some advises. I don’t want to screw up.

Well, when all is said and done, there's either going to be a dedicated effort to restore the sanctity of your marriage, or there is not.

If there is going to be that effort, then what you could talk about would be coming up with a clear plan in regards to how you both are going to do that.

If there is not going to be that effort, then what really is there to talk about? Without that commitment, all the talks in the world will only go in cirles and (probably) cause more damage as they do.

In other words, without a commitment (from both of you) to do 'whatever it takes' to save your marriage and family, don't waste your time chasing her in conversation.

I would advise you to be prepared to (lovingly) walk away from a conversation that is just going to do more harm than good.

You could say, "You know I love you, and you know I want to save this marriage, but until you are ready to meet me in that effort, there's not a lot to talk about." Then, be prepared to leave the room.

Like I said before, you need to start gaining her respect back. That doesn't mean being a bull about things, but it does mean setting some boundries for yourself so that you aren't engaging in behaviours that are going to further damage you.

The trick is to learn how to set boundries and enforce them without Lovebusting all over the place.

J

I forgot that I knew that. adrianc, if you are not married to a Latina, ignore everything I said.

Back to sleep now.

WW is not latina.
This morning she was in a bad mood. In the afternoon she became friendlier. Actually, she’s friendlier than she's ever been after the D day. I asked her what she thought about taking our older daughter to the community centre for figure skating. She was very communicative and came up with the idea of sending our older daughter to skating classes.
I don’t understand, she’s blaming me for changing moods and she’s the one doing that regularly. Is she really an alien?

No, she is a WW. She is deep in the fog. She speaks in tongues now. It's a language for which no translation exists. There is no logic only protection for the fantasy world over the rainbow. Do not take it personally. It is not about you, it is about her. Don't react to everything she says and does. Formulate a strategy. Be consistent regardless of what your WW says and does. If you do, you have a chance to get through this. You must stop such things as wondering why she blames you for changing moods. It's her changing mood doing this. WW use their fantasy world as a prism to focus themselves onto the real world. The real world where you live.

ToddAC and I are married to Latinas. Whole nuther set of problems.

Throughout your entire post, I feel that you spend way too much time trying to interpret your WW's conversations. If she can't understand them, how could you be expected to. ToddAC is saying a good thing. Don't worry about the WW - focus on what you are saying and doing. Try as best you can to ignore what WW says.

I get the idea from your last few posts that you are getting depressed. That is good in that it is a natural progression and it will come sooner or later. If it gets too bad, see a doctor. The depression will not last but it is something you will have to endure regardless of whether you stay married or not. Calling it quits now will not make the depression go away for very long.

If you do have that talk with your WW and things are not going well, do exactly as dewt said - walk away.

We went out to see a movie tonight, together with BIL and his W.
It was OK, we had a good laugh, came back home.
She went upstairs to bed. I spoke with MIL who noticed as well my W's moods but she made no comment on that.
We'll see what happens tomorrow.
Damn fog...