One question: you say she went upstairs to bed. Why did she go alone? I am not talking necessarily SF. I am just wondering why you let her go alone and decided to stay and chat with MIL. Are you not sleeping in the same bed as WW?

Sometimes I am not sleepy at the same time as my wife. We still go to bed together. If I need to get up after she goes to sleep, I do it.

Maybe it is just me. I have seen you make that comment on more than one occasion in the other thread.

Could I ask you the favor of explaining a little better about your living arrangements? I still get confused by this and I think it would help to know.

Oops. Almost missed that.

You said that her email has a lot of demands but that she also wants to talk about it after V day.

That is also a demand (i.e. her wanting to talk about it). Only talk if that is what you want to do. Don't talk just because she tells you to. You need to get firmly in control of the schedule. Don't let WW set the timeline. Keep her off balance.

You commented earlier that you may be ready to give up. Use that emotion to your advantage. I will repeat that the secret to good negotiation is not being afraid to walk away from the deal. If you believe that you can accept either outcome (R or D), it will make you much stronger.

Oh, and as Bigger points out - if the negotiation is not going your way, don't be afraid to walk away from the negotiation (as dewt said).

You are letting fear control you to some extent. You need to understand what that stems from.

Heroes are not fearless people. Heroes are people who are afraid but act anyway. It is okay to have fear - but use it in positive ways. Make your weakness a strength.

I think you are getting lots of good advice here.

I want to add one thing... and for me, it was the most important thing...

Realize that this is not a sprint to the finish line. It's more of an endurance run. I'm two YEARS into this run and for the first year, I was so frantic with pain and chaos that I did everything absolutely wrong. The truth is that I, as a betrayed spouse, probably did more damage to our chances at reconciliation than my WW.

In my time here at MB, I've seen a lot of this, and that's why I say to you now that the best thing that you can do...

for yourself...

for your wife...

for your children...

Is to ground yourself.

Find that core of inner peace and patience. There is great strength there and other people can detect it, even if they aren't really aware of it.

Stop grasping. Get off the emotional roller coaster.

Find your own core value and use that to steer your ship by. Stop letting the unpredicable winds of your wife's moods and behaviours control your sails.

Your own inner stability should be your primary goal right now.

Develop your own personal plan and stick to it patiently and without wavering.

Again, this inner strength is detectable by others. It's very attractive and will have many many many benefits.

Hope you're doing ok.

J

We do go sleep in the same bed. Most of the time she goes early to bed. Maybe too early. That's why I ended up talking to my MIL.

I do want to talk about the email. I have to know where we go from here. She says she would end her A but she never mentioned when that would happen. Also, she's working on projects. I need to know exactly what's going on. And what is she planning to do to recover our M.

My MIL and FIL are living with us since October last year. They came from Europe to help us looking after the DDs. They will fly back to Europe at the end of April. There is no one else in the house except myself, WW and two DDs.

My plan was to stay in plan A until end of April. After that…

I will do my best to find that core of inner peace.

I will do my best to find that core of inner peace.

Well, it's a process m'man. But I'm telling ya, it makes all the difference in the world.

Also just wanted to say that I'm envious that you have the inlaws rootin' for your marriage. My inlaws are using bribes and extortion with my W to keep us from working things out. The told my W that if she and I get back together they would totally 'cut her off'. 19 years ago, my MIL actually tried to run me down with her car.

Can you imagine that? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />

J

dewt, I'm sorry to hear that your inlaws are giving you such a hard time.
I woke up this morning at the usual time and did my morning run. I came back. My W was awake but in a bad mood. I asked her if she slept OK. She said “yeah” but didn’t ask me about how I slept. Not that I’ve expected that.

Bah... [/shrugs] It is what it is. I never liked her much either, and the bright side of it is that I don't have to go for any of those terminally boring visits anymore. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I do feel bad for my W because she is in a pretty nasty position... facing a choice like that.

But, like I said, "It is what it is," and there isn't a darn thing I can do about it.

I think it's great that you go running in the morning. That must take incredible self discipline, but I can also see how it would be very rewarding. Is this something you are doing to get into shape or are you doing it for primarily emotional reasons?

I'm pretty lucky, I'd say. I'm in construction and so my work day is very active. My tool belt, fully loaded weighs almost 40lbs and climbing up and down scaffolding all day keeps me trim and fit.

That being said, I spent last month in BC, snowboarding in the backcountry around Revelstoke and I'll tell ya, the first week was pretty darn humbling. I mean, I thought I was in good shape... but yikes!!! Maybe it was the altitude, but there were a couple of times I thought I wasn't gonna make it. My legs were rubber, my heart was threatening to go on strike in protest and I was pretty sure I couldn't go another step... but then my guide found the ultimate motivation:

"Can't stop now," he says, "This is an avalanche path."

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />

And here I was thinking, "Oh, what a nice clearing to sit in the sun and have a little rest."

It's amazing, y'know, whether it's dealing with infidelity or climbing a mountain... you ALWAYS have more stregnth than you think you do!

J

Dewt!

I'm so glad you came out of MB hibernation...I was thinking of you when I found out Adrian was in Ontario. I couldn't think of your name, though, except John, which isn't helpful. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Wasn't LiftedUp your wife/ex?

Anyway, I knew what you went through with the courts up there. Thank you for sharing that with Adrian. And everything else, too.

LA

Hey LA, thanks for the heads up. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I had to take some time of MB cause of the exact kind of frantic behaviour I'm referring to in my posts above. There's more to it than that, but I'm planning on posting an update and I'll get more into it on that thread rather than hijack Adrian's.

My Wife/ex (I'm not sure what to call her either) posts at MB under the nick Soulloss, but she hasn't posted here in quite some time.

Ya, I sure did get dragged through the Canadian legal system, but that was in Quebec. I think Ontario has a slightly better reputation for fair courts. We can all thank our lucky stars that we don't live in BC, cause that province is know worldwide as being ridiculously biased against Fathers. It's the one and only thing that makes me feel deeply ashamed to be Canadian.

I'm planning on trying to post more often here at MB because there was a time where the folk here REALLY helped me out and I feel a sense of gratitude and obligation to try and give something back. It seems over the past few years that the core values, the things that made MB such a great place to be have been slipping away and if there's any way that I can contribute and do even a little part to make things better, well, I just want to try and do my part. Posters like you are very encouraging to me and make it easier for me to want to jump back in. So thanks to you too. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

J

The OMW called me. She said that she’s had it. Therefore she spoke with a lawyer and will file for divorce next Wednesday. She emailed the OM telling him about her decision and also told him that she didn’t think there was anything to do anymore, but if he thought differently to let her know. His answer was “I read your email and I understood what you wrote.” Nothing else.

Tomorrow we’ll go out for V-day. Wednesday night I am planning to talk to my W about the “demands letter” she sent me. I don’t know what I’ll say but I have to do it.

How many kids does the OM have?

I would wait to discuss the demands letter. Tell her you are still mulling it over.

Often things change when the other BS files for divorce.

adrianc,

If you feel compelled to have that talk (and I know you have been dying to talk about this with WW), I am not expert enough to tell you what to talk about. I will say, from my position, it is equally if not more important what you DON'T talk about. I would make a crib sheet if I had to.

Thanks for the explanation on your IL's. So they came over to help for 6 months. Do you have newborn children? I was skimming through the other post and did not easily see how old your children are. If your WW recently delivered, do you know approx. when the affair started in relation to the births?

MIL and FIL from Europe? What is their ethnic background? What country are they from? Are you and WW native Canadians?

I'm with believer, Adrian...you don't have to talk about it Wednesday. When you do talk about it, keep traic's tenet of what not to say is as important as what is said.

Did OMW say why she's had it? Last you said was MOM (tough to abbreivate married other man, huh?) wasn't taking action on divorce until after the christening in April, right?

Did she update you on contact? New info? Did you tell her that WW said she would go no contact?

I would wait until after OMW actually files something...which may be a long time. My heart goes out to her with this in her lap along with postpartum time. She's got to be up and down a lot. Who is her support system?

On her going to bed early...have you considered going to bed at the same time? She didn't do this before her parents arrived, did she? Could you try doing this and getting up earlier...doing your run and having an extra half hour in the morning to be around, or get your daughters up?

One of the distancing things my H and me did during our marriage was, when I was distant, I would stay up late on the computer and H would go to bed alone. When I would grow closer to him, we shared a bedtime. Then, when he was distancing, he would stay up late with the tv and I would be the one in bed. Very imbalancing. I know in your previous posts that you say she goes upstairs in the evening and you go to the basement to play with the kids. Is this what you mean about going to bed early...or to your bedroom early, but not going to bed? How late past her exit do you actually go to bed?

LA

Thank you all for your posts and your help. It is greatly appreciated.

I guess I owe everybody a few more details about us. We’re all from Romania (myself, my W, FIL, MIL). We immigrated to Canada back in 1998 (just married). The in-laws are visitors here therefore the will have to fly back home at the end of April. We have two DDs 3 ½ and 1 ½ years old.

The OM and OMW are from the same country and have a son 14 days old… You would do that two your new born, wouldn’t you?...Just joking. Sad, isn’t it?

OK. I will avoid talking to her about the letter unless she brings it up. I will call OMW tomorrow and tell her about my W’s no contact intentions.

OMW told me that my W called the OM during the wedding on Saturday (on his cell). The OM slowly took the phone and disappeared in the bathroom. After he was done he slowly put the phone back hoping the OMW would not notice. She got upset and asked him why he was hiding from her when she’s calling him. He said he didn’t want to hurt her. Yeah, right, like you haven’t hurt her enough already.

LA, the OMW support is NADA, ZERO, ZIP. She’s got nobody here. All her relatives live back home. Very sad, right?

I am calm. Very calm.

I spoke with my MIL and she said that my W told her that she would go no contact after V day… We’ll see about that.

Did your MIL say to her daughter, "Why wait? What do you expect your adulterer to give you for V day that you can't get from your faithful husband?"

This is the kind of support I want from your inlaws. Accccck.

Poor OMW. Please do everything to get her here. Tell her we will be her support, friends and family here. No matter what she decides. Tell her she's not alone in her pain---millions have shared it. Tell her to do it for her newborn if not for herself. And that people here can give her great words to use to combat his fog about not hurting her. Orchid, especially!!!

Believer? Trac? Dewt? Should Adrian ask WW why she called OM during the wedding? Would that be okay to do? There's no one else to expose to, and I thought maybe her knowing that Adrian knows (but not how) would be a shred of light in WW darkness?

Explain to Trac about why your WW doesn't want you to talk to inlaws...FIL health, of course. Like her choices aren't a factor but Adrian's attempt to marshall their support is?

I'm glad you're calm. Running for health and stress relief, knowing you are supported, advised and encouraged here has to help. You're doing great. You really are...did you know you were this strong, committed and heroic? Did ya?

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Giving you her secret cell phone would have to be part of the no contact, don't you think? And you can make a pact with OMW to update each other, 'k? Continuing contact, continuing exposure. I forget...you didn't expose to wife's employer yet, have you?

Pats on back and hugs, Adrian...hang in there...

LA

I would not ask WW why she called OM. Maybe I missed something. I think it is potentially confrontational. JMO. I believe in the bang for the buck philosophy.

Okay this is all suddenly more interesting but also red flags are starting to pop out.

Not to get sidetracked - there is a purpose. How would you say your WW has adjusted to living in Canada? Was she extremely close to her natal family back in Romania? How has she adjusted to the language, eh? I am asking all this for a reason. Forget about the A for just a moment. Aside from that, what has been your WW's attitude since 1998?

It is interesting that the OM is also from her home country - speaks her language, understands her traditions and culture. I think there may be some deep meaning behind her choice for an affair partner. On the other hand, you did say he was your best friend so exposure had a lot to do with it as well.

One other question but all cultures are different. In general, how are affairs regarded in Romania? Are they common? What is a typical Romanian's attitude to an affair? I ask this because I want to understand MIL and FIL a little better.

BTW, It is great to get MIL and FIL support. Just don't reveal your Plans to them. They are unpredictable and can do or say the wrong things with good intentions. Let them take up a flanking position. Let their support be in addition to your effort - not an integral part of it.

adrianc, based on your last post, I am beginning to wonder if your wife is in a severe depression (I am a chemical engineer - not a psychologist) and has been for some time. Is there a URL here somewhere on signs of depression? It may be that the A is not the real issue here.

I also meant to say that I too would prefer to avoid or delay that talk about the email. You are looking at this as a chance to open up a discussion. I think you are bursting with things you want to say and hear said. Personally, as I said before, you don't have to talk just because WW said to and I just don't think you are ready yet. It is amazing how far you have progressed in the past few days but I think you need more time because right now you are an unknown quantity.

I think that he should just hang in there for awhile.

It would be good if the other man's wife could come here for support.

For some reason, there are lots of men that cheat during a pregnancy. I just don't get it. They almost always go back to their family. Anyway, I will be SHOCKED if he doesn't.

This whole situation is still up in the air. That's why he should stall for time. Things may be going on behind the scenes. A talk with his wife isn't going to go well. She is still WAY OUT THERE.

Believer,

Correct me if I'm wrong. You're saying that I shouldn't talk to the OMW?


Traicionado,

She was OK after we moved her (including the language). Things got bad after her BIL with his W moved here. I have always had contradictory discussions with him and my W was not happy with that. My in-laws are against divorce. Especially FIL. That's the mentality back home.

I do believe that my wife is having a depression, but I can't help her because she doesn't accept anyone's help.

LA,

If I didn't meet you at MB I probably wouldn't be writing this post. I didn't realize that I was so strong. 6 weeks ago I didn't see myself here. I have no words to describe how much you've helped me no matter how this will end. You're great!
I will tell the OMW about MB.

One question. Tomorrow is V day. Should I send her an email or an e-card? I was only planning to get a rose for tomorrow night.

Please read my previous post.

I have a big question and I need help!


I just checked her emails. I was curious to see if the OM forwarded my W the email he got from his W regarding the divorce. He didn't. But guess what? I found out that they will go see a movie Wednesday at 5.00PM, but I don’t know the theatre. Instead of coming home, to her family, to her DDs she is spending time with her lover. Should I tell her on Thursday that a coworker of mine saw her in the theatre with another man? Should I do that in my in-laws' presence?