No, I'm saying you shouldn't discuss things with your wife just yet. She is still way out there.

You should probably ignore the movie thing. It is sad that they don't seem to care about their family, but that is the way they are.

But have some hope. I don't think the affair will last.

adrianc,

You know your WW is having an affair. The movie thing is tough but, if you can, just let it go. Other option is to show up at the theater yourself and meet them face-to-face and be polite. Offer to buy them popcorn. This movie thing seems critical but, in the greater scheme of things, doesn't mean that much. If you can ignore it, do.

I am going to get back to Romania. Who have you exposed this to back home? If you have not exposed, why not? As embarrassing as being caught in an A is to your WW, she is being exposed to people she has no real ties to. If she is taking up a career in web-site design, she can do that from anywhere in the world. It is a low margin business so I am sure she can find a cheaper place to operate from than Canada. All you need is a broadband connection and you are good to go.

I would set up a plan of exposure in Romania. This will have far more impact on WW than exposing to friends in Canada.

It is good that MIL and FIL are against adultery. The bad news is that they now know about it and your WW has survived that threat. No more joy there. In fact, it probably is reinforcing her behavior now.

I am not saying take out an ad in the Romanian Gazette - but you need to expose this to key people there. Just remember that you are not exposing to seek revenge.

First question...the rose is sufficient, I would think, along with a card, even homemade from you and the girls. Did you get your daughters some valentines and candy? Hey, it is for the women of your heart, right? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

So sorry about the movie...especially as it will definitely be contact after V Day, huh! Well, if you say something about a coworker seeing them at the theater, and if they didn't go to a theater...well, you can see how your communication monitoring might be exposed.

If you know where the theater is, what time they are planning on the movie, you, daughters, FIL & MIL could all go to see a flick there, right? I think that would be the best coarse. Then you'll know if they are there or not.

Not just you, but the lot of you. And you know what? They won't suspect you new...God guides, you know? It can happen. If you know what movie, and it isn't age appropriate for your girls, I'm sure they have one at the same theater that is, so that would be why FIL & MIL were along, eh? You and he are going to see the same one WW is, and MIL takes girls to other film? When you see them there, leave, as a group; you don't have to go through with it.

Just my idea on movie. You may want to disregard as Believer suggested. Guess it is no on the calling during wedding, huh? See, I had a few, "Help me comprehend" discussions with WH, so that's where I come up with this stuff. "I see you called OW today." "It was about work." "So you aren't having contact?" Pause..."Yes." "Did you say you had feelings for her?" "Yes. I can't help it if she calls me." "Did you talk to her in our house?" "No, I went to my car. I felt stupid. I was going to tell you about it but I hadn't had the chance."

That was before committing to marriage, but after dropping OW. Different time and place. I did it calmly, thank goodness, and said, "I see." Each punch I took without DJ or AO, built my H's confidence to tell me truths he'd withheld because he "didn't want to cause me pain." Well, they were painful, but what he meant was, "I won't tell you unless you don't LOOK to be in pain." It worked.

LA

So you have issues with BIL and don't respect MIL and FIL (your words in your posts - not mine).

Do you think in your marriage that you were trying, even subconsciously, to create distance between your WW and her family? Answer honestly to yourself.

Traicionado,
I never intended to create distance between my WW and her family. Subconsciously, maybe. But how can I fix that? It's kind of too late, isn't it? I explained several times to my WW, my MIL, my FIL that I only had good intentions...
Apparently, everybody knows back home. Everybody knows here. Only her employer doesn’t know. But how can I expose there? I have no proof except for the emails I read which I am not suppose to see (it is company’s email address – through webmail).

LA,
I can't go to the movies with the girls. They're too young. But I would go at least with my MIL if I knew the theatre. I would love to make my MIL see with her own eyes the truth.

believer,
IMHO, as long as they will work together on the website the A will not end. She is so happy when she works on that stuff because after she’s done she emails him her part of the code and eventually calls him. It’s not about her carrier even though this is what she says. It’s about working together with him on that website.

Why do you guys think that the A will not last? What do you think is going to happen so they will break up? What might cause a fight between them? Is the OM’s baby going to affect him? If the OM and the OMW will get divorced, is that going to help me or not?

The OM will go on Wednesday morning with his W to see the lawyer (if the OMW doesn’t change her mind) and in the afternoon he will go with my WW to the movies. Everything seems to be perfect for them.

No it is never too late. You are operating under the premise that people (i.e. you) can change. If you don't believe that, give up. Personally I don't believe that people can change - but I do believe they can grow.

I go back to your "grumpy moods". That makes me think of passive-agressive behavior. I get the idea that you have been forcing your WW (maybe on an unconscious level) to make a choice between you or her family. That is tough. You sounded like you loved your WW so much that you did not want to share her with anybody - including her own family.

If I did my mental math right, you moved to Canada pretty much on your honeymoon. You took WW away from everything she knew in one fell swoop. Whose idea was it to move to Canada anyway? Was it mutual? You don't need to answer that - just think about it. Look at it from WW's perspective. She goes to a new country, new life, lost family and friends. International moves are a very traumatic experience (I have done 9 of them).

It may sound like I am picking on you right now and I guess I am. I have total confidence in believer, LA and others so I am going to focus on you for just a minute.

You asked how can you fix it. You tell me. I don't know but if I were in your shoes, I would go hat-in-hand to BIL and beg his forgiveness. I would do the same to MIL and FIL but individually. You need to build bridges back to her family and this is not for her benefit. You should do it because it is the right thing to do. Don't even tell WW you are doing it. You need to dig way down and find out what this problem is and get over it. Were you jealous of her family? Did it bother you when she would have fun with them and you felt like an outsider?

I won't keep picking on you BTW but there is something here you need to get to the root of. Let's just figure it out and then move forward. We still don't know what the triggers were that cause the A. That is where I am going with this. Also remember that I am not a psychologist.

Yes. That is the beauty of an affair. Everything SEEMS perfect. That is the attraction.

Affairs never last. I think things will end soon. A new baby is going to change it for them. Husbands usually go back to their families. You just need to hang in there and not LB your poor lost wife.

I have been together with my WW since July 1992. In 1993 I have decided to immigrate to Canada after I graduate university. Never had a contradictory conversation with my WW (my girlfriend at that time) about that. In March 1998 I came here alone. In October 1998 I flew back home to get married and quickly came back to Canada and applied for sponsoring my WW so she can get a residence visa as fast as possible. In May 1999 my WW came here. I waited for her in an empty apartment. I told her that I didn’t buy anything because I wanted to do it with her…

You’re probably asking yourselves why didn’t we get married before and come here at the same time. I have applied for a residence visa when I was not married and I guess I believed that changing my marital status would delay the processing of my file.

By the time she came here, most of our friends have already immigrated here. So, if you think about it, only the country has changed but the friends were still the same people.

It was tough in the beginning getting used with the language, finding a job, making the down payment for the house, and so on, but we made it. We supported each other and believed in each other. After that the kids arrived and everything seemed to be OK. We had my in-laws here for six months, helping us with the kids and after that my parents, for another six months, helping us. In 2004 my BIL with his W immigrated here as well. Having said all that, we had everything! Good jobs, great house, two beautiful daughters, our parents, our brothers (I have a brother too, who lives 20 minutes from here). I can hear my friends telling me “We envy you for your lifestyle. You are a lucky man. We’d love to be in your shoes.”

The rest of it you all know it. But what the triggers were that caused the affair is still a mystery.

I am going to bed now.

P.S. I am not sure about me didn’t want to share my WW with her family. I have always loved, for example, say, Christmas with the whole family or spending time at her parents’. Also, I love paying visits to our friends, going out with them or going together to a party. All of that together with my WW.

Believer? Trac? Dewt? Should Adrian ask WW why she called OM during the wedding?

Lemmee ask you this... is there even a remote possibility that you would get an answer that you want to hear?

I personally think that calling one's affair partener during a wedding is in EXTREMELY bad taste. If it were me, I would be bursting at the seams to say that, but again, I don't think it would get you anywhere you want to go. And for me, that was one of the biggest battles to fight... choosing between what I want now, and what I want most. I tell ya, (and many on these boards could back me up) that I lost that personal battle many many times. At best, my failures put back the schedule of our recovery by many months, if not years. It's just as likely that those indescretions will have cost me my marriage. At this point, only time will tell.

It was only once I stopped trying to control the situation that I started getting anywhere in terms of healing and drawing closer to my wife. It was only once I stopped trying to DO things that things (good things) started to happen.

So based on that, and also the fact that every couple, every situation is different, I'm hesitant to give actual advice on what to do.

On the other hand, you could probably consider me the resident expert on what NOT to do.

Like for example, don't ask her why she called her affair partner during someone's wedding. No good can come of it.

Course now that I've written all that, I'll ask you if you've considered asking your inlaws for some direct help with the situation. What if they went out 'to the movies' tommorrow night while you stayed home?

Will they be around tommorrow evening?

What do you think your W would say if they asked her where she was going on valentine's day evening? Sure she would probably lie through her teeth, but if they knew before hand that she was lying, do you think they could put the kind of pressure on her that you, as her spouse cannot?

Also, I strongly suggest you quietly go see a lawyer (a good one) and see what steps you can take to protect yourself and your children if things don't get any better. Perhaps a case could be made for abuse, which would give you a leg up if it ever goes that far. Don't allow yourself any false sense of security... wayward spouses are known for insane behaviour and if you are not prepared, you could find yourself holding the dirty end of a very ugly stick.

If she does go out tommorrow evening, it will be very very tough. Trust me, I know way too much about this. My wife's affair was with our roommate... just down the hall from me, and I spent too many nights sobbing by myself while they enjoyed themselves. But I got through it, and learned from it, and became stronger. Way way way stronger, and in the end, I'm a better man because of all that I experienced.

Just keep in mind that ALL THINGS PASS... and this will too.

I got a question for you now... are you a spiritual man? Do you believe/read/own a Bible?

John

dewt,

I liked your comment "once I stopped trying to control the situation". You are exactly right. The situation is uncontrollable in that it involves several people with free wills. For some reason this always reminds me of the movie "Bruce Almighty".

I also see there is danger in too much information. You start obsessing with the details and lose sight of the big picture. I would avoid the movie scene unless somebody had a camera to get a photo for the permanent record. MIL and FIL already know about the affair and, more importantly, WW knows they know. What real good will come out of them catching WW and OM? Hard to have SF in a movie theater. The movie is too easily explained away by a lying WW. If MIL and FIL do find them at the movie (and remember we don't know which theater it is), they should go one step further - invite OM and WW out for coffee after the movie and then drive WW home (without OM). Please keep in mind I still think you should just leave the movie alone.

adrianc,

Thanks for filling in the gaps. I'll stop picking on you now. I want to go back through and try to piece this together a bit. I think your fears regarding visa issues were probably well founded. I don't know much about Canadian immigration but I am betting you got a lot of good advice before you made that decision. Please don't get defensive about any of this. We are only trying to help.

Do you still keep all your Romanian traditions and celebrations alive? Since you have so many Romanians around, I guess you probably do.

I also noticed that you left your new bride all alone for about 6 months. Has that ever been an issue with her? Did she ever criticize you for it?

Sorry adrianc,

I was going back and rereading your thread. You said earlier - "I do want to talk about the email. I have to know where we go from here."

1) Don't have the talk.
2) If you do have the talk, what you said above should not be any part of that discussion.
3) You should not ask WW where you you are going from here. You should explain it to her. You are setting the terms - not her.
4) Please avoid having the talk.
5) See #1 and #4 above.

Good luck today (tomorrow?)

dewt,

It looks like there is a misunderstanding here. My WW is not going to go to the movies today (V day). It's going to be tomorrow. Today she will go out with me. But that would be the "second part". I read her emails again and found out that she emailed her boss last night telling her that she'll be in today around 10.00AM due to some personal issues. Now I am asking you, what is she going to do from 6.20AM (when she left home) until 10.00AM? I guess I know the answer: she's going to meet the OM. She got dressed very nice today, a mini skirt, polish her nails last night, use her best perfume and so on. It hurt me earlier today when I saw her all dressed up. I already knew that she's not going straight to work. Also she took a bag (she didn't expect me to see it) with a paper towel and some underwear. I asked her "what's in the bag" and she said "I got to change after I go to the gym at lunch time". And I am supposed to believe that. I told myself to stay calm.

I did ask my in-laws for direct help. Only my MIL MIGHT influence my WW but so far she's been pretty unsuccessfully. Look at this morning event + the movie thing. I mean, my WW tells her mother that she will go no contact after V day and she's scheduling to go to the movies with him the day after V day.
My In-laws don't know I know about the movie thing. They don't know I can check her emails.

Even if I told them about the movie I couldn't send my in-laws there because none of them have a valid driver license in Canada.

traicionado,

I will avoid the discussion about the email with her. Believe me I will bite my tongue to keep my mouth shut. Let's say that I won't say anything about the email and she won't say anything about the email. Then what? I let it go like nothing happened? She will keep going on with the A forever? It drives me crazy. And the movie thing tomorrow is going to kill me.

Also, how do I tell my in-laws that I know more than they think I know? Maybe then I will get more help from them.

No she will not go on with the A forever. That is the point. The A will die a death. It needs time.

I said earlier that maybe you are getting too much info. You are not learning anything truly valuable by reading her emails so stop reading them. All it is doing is stressing you and that will not help you with Plan A. Just take those emails and forward them to a separate account you have all your own in case you need them in the future. You are being distracted by things well beyond your control and losing focus on what you really need to be doing.

I repeat - you already know she is having an affair. Why do you need to know details? Should you tell her boss she missed work because she was off shagging your best friend? Where is your proof? I know it hurts but you just need to be willing to lose a few battles and try to win the war.

Let's talk about what MIL can really do to help. My MIL told WW that, if she did not stop the A, that WW was dead as far as MIL was concerned and she could never go "home" again. That was pretty good support. What can you MIL do for you? And does she want to?

I made a mistake this morning by talking to my MIL. I told her I was suspsicous about my WW, that she might not go straight to work today. My MIL told my WW about that and she sent me an email clarifing this. She said "I was at work at 7.00AM, didn't call you because I was busy, I had in the bag clothes for fitness club and napkins for my desk. I got dressed that way not because it's V day but because it makes me fell better at work"

What do I do know? Should reply to her? What do I tell her?

This is what I have been trying to tell you. MIL may be well-intentioned but she is a loose cannon.

Ignore the email. Just hope she doesn't ask how you knew. If you respond to the email, you will either grovel or end up in a fight. Say nothing. There is no benefit to responding to the email.

OK. I was planning not to say anything about that email but I just wanted to get someone else's opinion. Thank you.
As for MIL I saw the MSN log between herself and my WW. Basically my MIL told her that she should end her affair and go for no contact at least for a while. My WW didn't seem to be very happy with her mother's idea. I guess the fog is very thick.

I am going to take my WW to Dave & Busters tonight for V day. I didn’t choose a romantic place because I don’t think is fits us. I don’t know what we are going to talk about.

Anyways, I am not checking her emails anymore.

You can bet that she went to see the OM. The infidels just can't seem to stay away from each other on Valentine's Day. That is why private detectives love this day. Lots and lots of them get caught today.

Your job is to stay in Plan A. Take her out like you planned, and stay out of marriage/relationship discussions. Just tell her that you want to enjoy the evening with no serious talk. Otherwise she will bait you into an argument.

I spoke earlier with the OMW. She told me that she and the OM had a chat last night. He told her that he didn’t understand what was going on with him. He asked her for help. He was worried that she wants to get someone to come in for house appraisal. “Do you want to do it this week already?” he asked her. She told me that he was scared, not very enthusiastic about going to see the lawyer for divorce papers and was crying like a baby.

I asked the OMW to hold on a few more days and not file for divorce. I hope that something is going to happen in the next few days.

I am sticking to plan A and I will take my WW out tonight and not discuss about our problem at all. That’s a promise I’ve made to myself.