Cliff Notes...

I remember them, but my Mom never let me use them and by College they weren't relevant. I remember being upset about that. They seemed like such a good idea.]


I dunno... er... is that even good for you?

Your wife is obviously very conflicted. This is where you really need to play it cool. Like, really cool.

I have a question... I'm sure you probably posted it, but I either missed it or can't remember... how long have they know each other? How long do you think the affair has been going on?

I think your MIL totally rocks. I'm jealous. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />


We're 'divorced'. I walked out with my son 2 years ago when I gave my wife an ultimatum in an attempt to end her affair with our roommate. I'm not sure how long their affair has officially been 'over', but I'd say at least a year.

Now we live side by side in a small apartment building. I've cut a doorway from my son's bedroom wall through to Dylan's (my wife/ex-wife/bestfriend) living room. In a matter of seconds, and upon any whim, my son can hop two and fro from Mom's to Dad's.

I figure that there is a possibility of a full reconciliation, but there's still a long way to go. Being best friends helps alot.


Well, I'd get upset. I'd read it a bunch of times, getting more upset each time. I'd post about it. Freak out some more. Rant and rave (where she couldn't hear me).

Then I'd compose a reply. It wouldn't be a very nice reply. I'd try to write it as if it seemed nice but mostly I'd really want to get as many subtle but sharp jabs in as I could.

Ok. Just kidding. That's what I used to do. Of the several such letters I've actually written, I've had the good sense not to follow through and send most of them. The ones I did send did nothing to help my ultimate cause - which was reconciliation.

Here's what I'd do now.

Look through it to try and pull out the information I need. Which is what are her most important Emotional Needs.

Not, "What does she say they are?"... But what are they really?

Technically these types of letters aren't considered to be a very reliable source of insight, but I personally would check. I'm a bit compulsive that way. If I did find anything that struck a chord, I'd file it into my 'self improvement folder' and leave it there for later consideration.

Everything else, I'd ignore. I'd write it off as "WS Script" and promptly forget about it.

If a reply was expected, I'd say:

"I'm still thinking about your list. I love you with all my heart and want to make you the happiest woman alive, but it's hard for me to come to any conclusions while you are still having an affair."

I'd say this as matter of factly, but as politely and non-judgementally as possible, and I'd try to give off an aura of quiet stregnth and patient love.

Then I'd come here and brag about how cool I was. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Actually, I wouldn't say it. I'd write it. If I had to say it, I'd probably flub it up. Even writing the above, I edited it about 15 times. I'd write it just like that. Short and sweet. Long letters are useless.

They give the wayward too much of a chance to 'tune out'.

Warmest regards,

J

John's telling you the truth, Adrian. I remember reading his vents.

:::ducking::: YOU have come a long way, Dewt!

I had a thought...does OM's parents know of the affair?

LA

LA, I LOVED your translation!!!

Maybe you could write the 'Cliff Notes' for the Wayward Script. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> <---- me, being very very embarrassed.


Thanks. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> I could have taken the more direct route, though. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

The truth is that I thought I was going to die. And it took me too long to realize that I was the one responsible for most of that feeling - well, in a way. In lots of ways, anyhoo...

The point is, reacting to wayward script is one of the most destructive things I can think of. Destructive towards your efforts are reconciliation and destructive even moreso to your own mental health.

You need to keep your sites on the ultimate truth, and your ultimate goal and keep your focus long term when the pain gets too much.

WW woke up early this morning and left for work, so we didn't talk at all.
She didn't call or email me. I sent her an email telling her that I took our older daughter to daycare and now she is there safe and sound (we had a heavy snowfall last night so the roads were a mess).
No reply yet.

Anyways, I was thinking last night. There are two options:
1. If she decides to stay home, wouldn’t she be thinking all the time that if she left things would’ve been better for her? She’d have a hard time forgetting about the OM.
2. If she leaves, she’ll take the kids with her too (that’s the way in Canada). So, there will be WW, OM and my DDs living in the same place. Her parents will have to go back home at the end of April. I am asking you how is she going to raise the kids? When would she have the time to take care of them, to work on the website, to spend time with the OM? I believe that things would start to go wrong pretty quickly and then she’d realize what she’s done and made her think about coming back home.

Which option would be best? Or, is there another option?

I think that OM has a sense of something bad happening because HE is having second thoughts. I also think MIL is on your side. She is trying to ease your wife into doing the right thing.

I suggest that you be less available to babysit while the infidels are meeting. You are almost enabling the affair. Can you find something that you need to do in the evening? Away from home?

Thanks, John, for the confirmation on my translation. Also, no back-kicks for your non-direct route. You can only get to here from there, right? All paths are good and needed. Otherwise, I'm sunk because I kicked and screamed against anything resembling a direct route.

And I remember you talking the best game and doing the opposite. Me, too. That's why I read you. And yeah, got to realizing how much I created in my life with my sites set on the wishful, way I wanted it to be exactly, and the ultimate. Great distinction.

Adrian,

Only two options? I don't know what you mean.

One, she stays with family, like she's doing, and still sees OM.

Two, she chooses family and goes no contact, for awhile, then "just friends" begins again.

Three, she goes no contact and within two months, doesn't feel anything for OM but a bit of contempt and embarrassment.

Four, she stays and asks you to move out and moves OM in.

Five, she leaves with children and moves in with OM some place else.

Six, she leaves the children with you and gets her own place, alone, still seeing OM.

Seven...well, you get the idea. Lots of things can happen. Most important is you choosing your action (not reaction).

Yes, there are upsides to her having real life consequences by going to OM out in the open. The fantasy juice runs out. Same problems, different person. Worse problems because guilt and shame are layered over every emotion like old dust.

I want to hear your choices, how many are available to you and what you're leaning towards.

What did you think of dewt's suggestion about really examining her emotional needs through the emails and conversations?

How about yours? Top Ten lists are fun.

Here's to a new day after the other one...

LA

I cannot accept that.


I cannot accept that.

Where do I fit in here?

I cannot accept that.

I don’t really like this idea but it’s a very realistic one.

I don’t believe she would leave the children with me.

She totally forgets about the OM (forever), and falls in love with me ten times more than she ever was.

I don’t know anymore about her emotional needs. She’s so distant and her emails I read are all ILY’s and poems.

Here it is:
1. Affection.
2. Honesty and openness.
3. Sexual fulfillment.
4. Physical attractiveness.
5. Recreational Companionship.
6. Admiration.
7. Conversation.
8. Family commitment.
9. Trustworthiness.
10. Family support.


The OMW called me earlier and said that the OM came home last night very upset. He was in a bad mood and talked to her somehow disrespectfully.
I have no idea what my W and the OM they have discussed last night but it appears to me that she might have told him that they should end the A.
Still waiting for a sign from my W.

Send the OM's wife here.

Stop obsessing on what your wife may or may not do, and get a plan of what you are going to do.

So the options were for you? I saw you looking at her and her plans, not yours.

When you say you won't accept that...what does that mean?

I didn't see an answer to OM's parents knowing about his affair?

I'm still asking you to consider further exposure to end the A. That is within your plan and goal. To end the A, no contact, rebuild marriage and personal recovery.

Thank you for posting your EN list. I'm interested that you place family commitment at #10 because you seemed very aggravated that your WW was shutting off time with your daughters. I took that to mean that FC was higher on your needs list. Could just be now. As you said, her ENs right now are difficult to know. What were they before the A?

LA

The OM’s parents leave abroad. I don’t know if they know about the A. I have no clue how to contact them either.

When I say I wont accept that I mean that it’s out of question. If she chooses any of those options I would probably file for legal separation.

About the top 10 EN. It’s hard to find the proper order. For me, all of those EN have the same level of importance.

You are absolutely right. That’s my plan. I just used different words but the meaning is the same.


1. affection.
2. conversation.
3. recreational companionship.
4. family support.
5. family commitment.
I guess these were her EN before the A. Obviously there’s more EN that I was not aware of. That's why the A happened, right?

I guess you’re talking about her work. How would you do it?

I spoke with BIL’s W and she said that she spoke with a common friend who knows about the A. My W called him and asked him to help her find a job in the company he works for. “Don’t worry, I’m not gonna try hit on you!” she said. He asked her “Are you telling me that it was you who was after the OM not him after you?” She said “I feel no remorse for what I’ve done.” Anyways, I don’t know how true this is considering that it's a story told by someone who heard it form someone, etc.

I still haven’t been contacted by my W. And as I was suggested, I haven’t checked her emails.

Adrian...

You know how to get OM's parents informed...through his wife. I'm trying to widen that nimble mind of yours.

Thanks for sharing your boundaries--what is acceptable and what isn't. For what it is worth, taking actions from your standards is more difficult than it sounds. For instance, you are "accepting" (handling, dealing with) her option #1 right now. I'm only clarifying because you can accept temporarily something you would not abide long term. Widening out the black and white to encompass a lot of options, ways it can go, what you are prepared to do to enforce your boundaries, etc.

Lots of introspection for you. How are you doing today?

"That's why the A happened, right?" Adrian...your wife made the affair happen--her choice. Her unmet needs pre-A may have generated pain, anger, frustration, miscommunication and despair; most likely, entitlement.

I want you to be clear on that. She could have chosen MC, IC or an intermediary to talk with you; she could have seperated from you, divorced...but she chose NOT to...she chose to have an affair.

LA

Thanks LA for your post


This morning I was in a good mood. I actually laughed when I was thinking about last night scenario. My W was sneaking into her own house! I found that funny. And disrespectful towards our older daughter and me. We were treated like we were just some piece of furniture.
This afternoon I am a worse than this morning and I guess it’s because I don’t know what my reaction would be If I would be told that legal separation would be the next step.

On the other hand, reading your post made me realize once again that if I didn’t meet people like you on MB I would’ve lost it a million times already. I would’ve probably been separated by now.

Everything you said in your last post is true. And I agree with every single word you wrote. But for whatever reason I said only stupid things like I didn’t meet her EN and that’s how the A started, or I didn’t know how to find the OM’s parents, and so on…

I don’t know what’s happening to me but sometimes I am amazed by what stupid things I am capable of saying.

Another funny thing (or maybe it isn’t) is that last night I slept in the same bed with my W but we haven’t talked to each other in about 30 hours!

If she won’t talk to me, should I talk to her? I really need an answer on this one.

You didn’t tell me how you would expose the A to my W’s employer. I am thinking of sending her boss an email urging her to do something. But I don’t know what should I ask her to do. I could also tell her that I believe that my W is using her work email to keep the A going on. What do you think?

If she won’t talk to me, should I talk to her?

This is a fine line. The short answer is yes. But keep your conversation very limited or, at least, within certain boundaries. My rules (for where you are right now):

1) Don't try to start a conversation just for the sake of talking. If you have something to say - say it. If you have nothing to say -say it (i.e. nothing).

2) Never ask her how she is feeling or how she is doing. Keep your conversation minimal and about necessary things - like what you will have for dinner. "Good Morning" is okay. "Good Morning, how are you?" is not okay.

3) Don't NOT talk as a way to "get back". In other words, no passive-aggressive behavior. If she ignores you, ignore that she is ignoring you. On the flip side of this, don't always be the one initiate communication - don't appear over eager (the bouncing dog).

4) Don't ever ask where she is going or what she will be doing. You have no interest in any of those things.

5) Don't ever ask her to tell you what she means if she says something you didn't quite capture.

I am sure others will have more ideas but just remember to be polite to your WW. Don't get into a non-verbal fight because then it becomes a battle of wills to see who will break first. Don't talk about future. Keep the conversation basic and discuss functional things only.

It is all in your mental attitude. If you are angry at WW, it will be obvious to her even if you say nothing. Work at keeping your attitude upbeat when around her. The bad part of that is that being upbeat makes you want to talk more which is not what you should do. You get better with practice and WW will be more open once she understands that there have been groundrules set.

She does not hate you. She doesn't want to talk to you because she has no idea that she can safely do so. Show her (don't tell her) that you are consistent and that will help her. How do you do that? Be consistent.

I'll let Trac and Dewt answer you on talking to your wife. One of her ENs you said was conversation. I'm always for talking, and that might be the wrong thing. Mostly, Plan A was listening for me. Course, if you two aren't talking, that would make it really difficult to practice listening.

I don't believe in exposing by email. I believe in a carefully crafted letter, and if they have this in Canada...sending it certified mail with return delivery requested. Makes it formal and signed for. This would not be something to rush off and do, but with extreme care. Posting, refining and keeping it short and direct.

Others here have done it, so if you choose to do this, then post on its own thread for review and comments. Ask for MelodyLane in the title. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

"I said only stupid things" Hey! Heyheyhey...no DJs...not to others or to yourself. You say what you say. You're doing the best you can and you're not saying stupid things. If you feel like there was something you did that caused the A, then say that. The next moment, you might not. Not stupid. You feel and fear what you feel and fear. I respect that. I see my job as not letting you get by with not examining and owning what you believe.

If you were dying of dehydration, feeling the want of water consume your being, you might be panting and gasping ten feet from water but can't see it. God didn't make Adam and be done with it because he realized we needed each other, all of us, for each other. I can see the water from where I'm standing, but you can't right now, because you're on your knees, wishing for water. You would do the same, I believe. And have. No disrespect, just location, location, location.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

"I don’t know what’s happening to me but sometimes I am amazed by what stupid things I am capable of saying."

Please accept that you have really high standards you hold yourself to, maybe even strangle yourself on, and you need to look at those and get them to be reasonable. You're human. You're in a foreign situation which feels dangerous and frightening, not to mention painful as heck. You are going to have an automatic response to fight or flee...anything to make the pain stop. You're not a primitive human. But going against those automatic responses are difficult enough, let alone seeing what your course of action might be.

As far as content of the letter to employer...ask others. My brain just shut off. Ack. Yes, your concern is to save your marriage and you are making people who are important to WW aware.

Glad you can see the humor in her sneaking into her own house. And that she isn't really present when she's present. I used a lot of simple one liners for the down, not talking time. "I know we can get through this."

"I was just remembering about the time you saw our first home and how excited you were." Stuff with good memories and hope.

Little blurts I call them. Still do some. No expectation of an answer or reaction. Just information.

LA

traic,

I will do my best to do that. The only problem is that if I don't see my W, than I won't have the chance to show her.

LA,

Thank you for taking this job.

When do I get a raise?

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Heehee...

As for Trac's advice. You show her by actions you choose. You didn't go upstairs and confront her last night. You didn't get in her face this morning. That's consistent. She knows you and your normal reactions. Whatever they were, be different. Not taking action when expected speaks as loudly as taking actions when not expected.

LA

Adrian, I think the advice you are getting is just awesome. LovingAnyway (the best MB nickname (ever)) and, Traicionado (I have no idea what that means), you guys are really making me glad I came back to MB. And Believer is sooooo right.... if OMW was here, that affair would be toast. Omigod... I don't know if I've ever actually seen that before...

Play it cool with your wife. The tips you've gotten so far are better than I could come up with. My advice to you is to keep working on your mindset. You are going to need extraordinary amounts of compassion, patience, and even under the best of circumstances (as far as affairs go) it's a huge challenge.

You are at the stage of the affair where your actions and tones are very important. Read up on Plan A, and like I said, become an expert.

The balance of setting boundries while remaining nonjudgemental was a pretty fuzzy line for me. I felt very strongly about some things and probably could've handled things quite a bit better.

The number one thing for me and what I stand by as far as giving advice is that you should, under NO circumstances, move out of the house. But how do you respectfully tell someone that if they choose to leave the family unit to pursue an affair and cause so much destruction, then they can be the one to leave. How do you say that with authority, but not anger?

How would you say it Adrian?

And I can't tell you enough how important it is to be prepared legally if you are a Father in this country. I could tell you stories that would chill you to the bone. Most lawyers offer a free initial consultation. Get informed of your rights. Like, can you report a kidnapping if she tries to take them? I'm not suggesting you take her children from her. No. But I am urging you to be prepared to protect yourself and your children and make darn sure that the choice she is making is whether to leave the family or stay and fix the family. Kicking you out of the family should NOT be a choice.

About her Emotional Needs...

They change. I'm sure you could think of a time when your list was in a different order. I can sure think of time when mine was.

Right now, consider her ULTIMATE Emotional Need from YOU is for you to be a rock... or even better, a lighthouse. A lighthouse is a beacon of safety, of stability. It doesn't try to drive the boat. It doesn't give orders to the crew. It stands there patiently weathering the storm, so that the ship can come home safely.

Be the man inside the lighthouse. Tend to the building. Keep the light steady and freshly charged. Don't worry about the boat for now. Remember the pilots forgetting the plane wasn't on autopilot? Well, lighthouses don't even have autopilot.

Anyway, hope you are doing well. I some grade three math to do for my son now, but I'll check in later. (and fix all my formatting errors)

J

Thanks guys for your posts.

I came home at 6.15PM. She wasn't there. I left with my FIL to the grocery store. We came back around 7.30PM. She was home. Just when I was about to take off my shoes my W shows up smiling and says "Can you please go and fill up my gas tank?" I stared at her for a second and said. "Yeah, OK"
I came back, she was laughing and having a good time.
I know I'm dealing with an alien but how the h*ll can she act like nothing happened? We haven't really seen each other in 40 hours and haven't spoken in about the same number of hours and she' all one big smile. Arrrgh!!!

She had an appointment with the family doctor. Should I ask her what the doctor said?
Should I remind her that I took our older daughter to see the dentist today?

I fell like I am going to loose it tonight. I'm going to have a beer, maybe it will calm me down.

Ask her,