What happened to volunteering your thoughts and feelings in simple statements.

"You want me to fill up your gas tank?"

"Yeah." Smile.

"I feel shocked. Those are the first words you've said to me in 40 hours. I'm confused. I fill up your gas tank as an act of love."

Who knows what she would say. Then you can go.

Have to point out, though, she did a small consideration by catching you before you took your shoes off. Tiny, I know. Still.

Why did she go to the doctor?

Volunteer your information on the dentist.

You aren't losing your self-respect tonight. You were just caught off guard.

LA

Don't ask nuthin' unless it's to show simple caring. Nothing heavy. Let her know how things went at the dentist. No big deal. Sit, have a beer, chill out.

She's being pleasant? You be pleasant. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

She gets cranky? You be pleasant. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

J

Why, dewt! I do believe pleasant is on the menu!

Yeah, I do bad puns. What of it?

:::ducking:::

Oh, that was fowl.

Adrian? Following dewt's advice will be a feather in your cap.

'nuff

LA

She's upstairs with the older daughter. It's bed time and tonight she chose her mommy to stay with her until she falls asleep.

I am pleasant but I can't take this anymore. Tomorrow we won't talk again and so on. She'll never say anything about what she wants. How long should I be doing this? I said end of April but it's just killing me.

I don't know how to ask her move out. And more than that, I am not sure anymore I have feelings for her...

You don't know what tomorrow will bring, Adrian. You jumped there and said it will be no talking. She caught you off guard tonight. She might tomorrow in a whole different way.

You don't know.

You don't believe she'll say what she wants. There's no "never" in that. That's you. Right now, you have this evening. You can express your feelings to MIL and FIL.

To us.

We know you're hurting. You want the pain to stop yesterday. Especially since you are charting your progress with both hands...better level today, worse, better, worse...do you have the expectation that better means more better? That worse portends worse?

LA

This is excellent. The more time she can spend with her daughter, the better. Especially special time like this... reconnecting with the elements of 'home' and/or the family is very good. Very good.


Oh yes, you can. You have no idea how strong you can be. Oh my God, I could go on and on and on about this topic. Please just take my word for it for now.


Dude, believe it or not, there comes a point where you kinda overcome it. You have a well inside that you haven't even tapped into yet. How long is hard to answer. Harly recommends Plan A for 6 months. I personally am just past the 2 year mark. There are a couple here that make me look like a newbie. Most wayards straighten out way before that. It really depends on the person, and it depends a lot on how good your Plan A is.


Don't ask her to move out. I would not recommend Plan B to you yet. Not by a longshot. If she chooses to move out before that, it's her choice.


And I warned you about this. It's common. It's to be expected. After all, look at everything you are going through. What person, in their right mind, wants to be married to a wayward spouse?

You have to remember this person... who looks like your wife, has the same voice... she's really not your wife. She's an imposter planted here by the aliens.

You be the lighthouse. Help guide your real wife home by being stable, loving and strong.

That way, when the fog clears, and she comes back to her senses, she will look back and remember how you acted... how strong you were. And she will get the best lesson a person can get about what real Love is. And when she's in a state where she's capable of appreciating it, you better believe she will!

Get what I'm saying?

I'm telling you this because when I had a chance to do a Plan A while we were still together, I blew it. I succumbed to pain that I thought was unbearable. I gave her an ultimatum and pushed her off the wrong side of the fence. I blew it a few times, each time because I thought I couldn't take it anymore.

Each time I was wrong. I could take it. I had to take it. My family... my children... my wife... they were all depending on me to not only 'take it' but to actually learn how to thrive while taking it.

It ain't fair. It ain't easy.

But it's possible.

And it's worth it.

Glad you owned up to that essential part, dewt, for Adrian's sake.

You fought your own feeling of self-respect very hard back then. Then you found what you were feeling wasn't true self respect, huh? You've got loads now! I'm so happy for you.

Plan A pays dividends, Adrian.

LA

LOL... I'm Mr. "own up to and take responsibility for"... the problem's always been that I kept doing things I then had to own up to. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />


Truth is I've always had self respect issues. From as far back as I can remember. I still wouldn't say that overall I have 'respect' for myself. Not really.

I've been well enough trained not to express it publicly, but the issues are still there.

On the bright side of things, for the first time in my life I see a possiblity of me earning that respect from myself.

Long road, but at least it's started.

Actually, it's all a trick to win my Wife back. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> Become this super guy... all handsome and rich... with a cottage... investments... some travelling... a boat... er.. well the boat's really for me. (but we'll just keep that quiet)


Plan A pays dividends. It's like a mortgage, the sooner you get it dealth with, the lower the overall cost. The longer you take to get up to speed, the higher the overall cost. I'm a real good example of that.

The way I see it, you are doing pretty good.

All you gotta do is stay the course.

You can share your self respect issues with me. I've got/had them, too. I see you earning every ounce of self esteem with each action you take...including being here for Adrian.

I got another one for ya. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> Whereareanswers. Please? Pretty please? He reminds me of you.

::ducking again:::

Okay, not really, but a little. Winning your wife back is just being you, you know. The accoutrements that you listed are icing on your own cake.

Self-sabotage, knowing but not doing, is human. You're getting past that. You have come so very far in a relatively short time...two years versus your whole life...be respectful of yourself and own that, too.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

LA

ardianc,

You have gotten some pretty good tips while I was asleep. About the rules of conversation, I forgot one last night. Don't ever use the "why" in a question to your WW at any time ever under any circumstances. Not even if it is "why did you put sugar in your coffee?". Just remove that word (or its Romanian equivalent) from your vocabulary.

Now, why I really wanted to post. You asked a couple of questions a few posts back and it got me thinking of language. Do you remember the process you went through when you first learned English (or any other additional language)? If you did that later in life, this will be easier. When I learned my first second langauge (French), I went through several distinct stages. I remember one stage was where I would hear what was said and translate it mentally into my native langauge. Then I thought about what I wanted to say, translated that to French and then said it. It was understandable but not really French as a native would speak it. Just sounded "funny". Later I stopped the translation process and started "thinking" in French and would start to say what I wanted to say and maybe get halfway through the sentence and realize I couldn't finish. I got lost. So I started saying the sentence mentally in French to make sure I could get all the way through it, correct mistakes or adjust the wording as necessary and, once complete, speak it.

This is more or less what you should be doing. Like learning a second language, it is difficult at first but gets easier with practice. Okay, what is my point?

Your WW went to the doctor. Don't ask her about it because you are asking "how she is". Violates the boundaries.

You took DD to the dentist. Yes you should say this but how you say it is extremely important. You should not say: "I took DD to the dentist today. She has three cavities and I have to take her back in a week, etc." What you do say is: "the dentist said DD is in good shape. she has to go back in three weeks." (Maybe she does not have to go back. This is just an example.

My point is that WW has a right to now about DD's health and should be told. It helps her connect. She does not need to know that you took her. That is like saying: "me being the responsibility parent that I am took our DD to the dentist to take care of her health while you were off doing whatever it was you were doing and, oh, were apparently so busy that you didn't even bother to ask how it went."

That may be over the top but I am trying to make a point. Think through mentally what you want to say to WW before you actually say it. Will it include anything that could be interpreted as a DJ? Can it be construed as impatient, angry, frustrated? Does it violate the boundaries you have established? If so, reword it. All you want to do is give WW the facts.

Good job on getting the gas without complaining. So she was laughing when you came back. Remember what I said way way back, she is happy for the most part. She is in love. From her POV, not much has really happened. We BS's want our WS's to hurt as much as us over the A. We feel that is justice. It is not going to happen. Our pain is ours alone. It is the lonliest part of being a BS.

dewt, you said: "I gave her an ultimatum and pushed her off the wrong side of the fence. "

I need to make an update on my story. I will try to do that tonight. Can I ask you the favor to have a look? I would really appreciate it.

"traicionado" is simply Spanish for "betrayed".

??? You didn't have to duck, that one went right over my head too...


It may or may not be a coincidence, but I believe that in doing the things I need to do to earn my own respect I will also earn hers. In doing the things I need to do, I will also be filling her top ENs. Plus I'm handsome, charming and have tattoos. And I can fix things. How can I fail? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />


Yeah... well it's a pretty nice cake.

And I get to eat it too.

Which is the whole point. Who ever heard of having a cake and not eating it. That's stupid. And having cake when it's not yours... that's stealing.


Yeah, but I'm a pothead with ADD. Knowing but not doing... I have taken that to unheard of levels.


I'm learning the skills that will help me get past that. There are lots of parts of me that I'm will never get 'past'... but there are tactics that will help me get 'around'... which I guess amounts to the same thing... so... er... heheh.


Oh yeah, I do. I'm not black and white about me. There's all kinds of shades of grey. In many many ways, I'm great. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> Heck, In some ways I exeed even my own very high standards. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Ok... I'm going to go now, before I make a complete a$$ out of myself. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

John

Too late on the last line.

Not really.

whereareanswers is a poster who just moved to General Questions II but has his link in his signature line.

That's what went over your head. Asking for your additional help out the side of my mouth.

I mutter.

And yes, I'm laughing out loud at your laughing.

LA

I will explain to you one of the "mentel tricks" I have successfully used. This one has paid off in spades on many occasions. It has one potential downside. That downside is that it helps you create a distance between your emotions and your WW. Overall that is a good thing right now but, for those times when doubt enters your mind, it creates its own problem. I have another "fallback" trick for those times. I don't want to get into any of that right now. I just want to place this into the specific context of communication.

The idea is this: you and your WW are dating. You are on about your 5th date, more or less. Sounds weird but bear with me. Would you ask this woman what her doctor told her? No. It is a bit too personal right now since you don't know each other that well. Okay this is specific to the doctor but, in general, I think that is where you should keep conversation with your WW - not as if she really is your wife. If you can look at it on these terms, it will be a big benefit for knowing where you need to draw the line in each interchange.

I have developed a few mental tricks that have helped me through the rough spots. You should try to find what works for you.

I have had to create an emotional buffer space between me and WW - just to preserve my sanity. Unfortunately there are times when I question whether I really care any more about R. Then I try to remember my DD's. My "happy thought".

I spoke with my MIL. She said that my W told her that she didn't want to talk to anybody about what she spoe with the OM. She only said that there is no A anymore and she takes time for long walks all by herself. My MIL asked her "Why don't you tell Adrian about this?" She didn't answer.

I didn't have to chance to tell my W about the dentist appointment. I was asleep when she came in the bedroom from our older daughter's bedroom.

traicionado,
My DDs = my happy thought too.

I'm going to be leaving to Toronto today from work. I'll be there till Monday morning. I'll try to get to a PC... but there are no guarantees... if you wanna maybe get together, Adrian, drop me and email at [email]dewt2003@hotmail.com...[/email] I'll try to check in...

ciao, all...

John

I am going crazy...

Adrian,

Hang in there...the pain you are feeling...many of us have been there...

...if you can just hang in there...it will pass...

...during these 'moments' give it your best shot at doing 'something' for you...or doing 'something' you enjoy...write what you feel down...ANYTHING...to get passed these 'moments'...

...I am sorry you have go 'through' this...but...it will pass...and whether you can believe this or not now... please trust me...as many here will tell you...you will come out of this a stronger person...

...but for now...it hurst like ******... and this is one time that you can appreciate the fact that feelings 'come and go'

...I am glad to see you here...personally...I don't know how I would have survived without the support and advice from the Board....you will S U R V I V E this.....hang in there....

Adrian,

Don't go crazy, come here instead.

What are your plans tonight? How was your day? Are still not checking email? Look at Lunamare's post...she knows Plan B...you can read others' posts in Plan A and see how they are doing, too.

You're not in this alone. Your known world is upside down right now, so yes, you'll feel a tad crazy, but you're not. Not even close.

We're with ya,

LA