adrianc,

It appears that you and I are on a similar timeline. This is tough duty we have been handed. Our beating hearts have been torn from our chests by the very person who vowed to protect us. There is much hurt and anger. Running with Plan A is exceedingly difficult, make more difficult by the fact that the person who created the need for Plan A will not lift a single finger to help.

The most important component of Plan A is consistency. You must be consistent with WW because she cannot be.

I agree with traicionado that you should not call WW. Also, do not let WW set the agenda. Meeting WW EN's does not imply doing everything she suggests. If you call, trust me, WW will later throw it in your face. I have been there. My WW now knows I will never call her unless there is an emergency with one of our sons. House burns down - no call. Car is stolen - no call. Flying saucer lands on front lawn - well, you get the idea.

Try to settle down and think through Plan A. Identify where your weak points may be and address so that you know how to respond in advance.

Continue to post here and in other's threads as well. Giving advice is good therapy.

traicionado,

I am on this board because I am lost. I need your help as much as I need LA’s help and everybody else’s help. If I were afraid that someone might criticize me then I wouldn’t be here.

Back to your post. I think I got your point about being consistent and being predictable. I believe that so far I have unintentionally been predictable. I am going to have to change that.
I don’t believe that either. But her behavior changed in the past few days. In a good way. Now, I don’t know if something good happened or this was just one of her games...

Last night we went to Home Depot to buy vinyl tiles to cover the ledges in the staircase. My BIL asked her why she wanted to do home improvements when the OM is selling his house. Didn’t like his comment but just like you said, I could only control myself. After Home Depot we went for grocery shopping and everything seemed to be fine. If someone would look at us and hear us talking he/she wouldn’t know that we’re having a problem. I believe I did pretty well last night.

I wasn’t going to call her today. But I spoke with my FIL earlier and he asked me if I could drive him, my MIL and our younger DD to the mall (at lunch time) and leave them there for a few hours. His plan was that my WW would go pick them up after work. I agreed with that. Then my WW called me (she spoke with my MIL):
“Are you going to take them to the mall?”
Me: “Yes”
My WW: “Talk to them and establish the time and place where I should go to pick them up, and call me back to let me know.”
I called her back but I got no answer so I left her a message: “You forgot to take your cell phone today so your father has it. Call him directly. See you later.”

After lunch she called me again:
“I got your message and I’ll call my father later.”
Me: “OK”

Other than that, nothing happened today.

One of my coworkers gave me two tickets for the auto show. Every year I went with my W to see it. I believe it’s a good opportunity to spend some time with my WW if she is willing to come with me. If not, I’ll probably take my FIL and eventually our older DD. That would be the plan for Saturday. For Sunday, I have no plans yet.

Thanks for the update. I do think it is good to avoid pattern behavior. Being consistent and being predictable is not the same thing. One of the things that confuses us is that we have been dealing for WW for the longest time but now W occasionally surfaces and we almost recognize her. Every time you think that you see W, do your best to try to connect to her. I like to think of it as the doctor talking to the wild schizophrenic personality of a person named "Bubba". "Bubba, is Billy in there? I want to talk to Billy. Let me talk to Billy please." It is just to hard to know if you are talking to W or to WW so do your best thinking it may be W but always keep your guard up in case it is WW. WW has created an elaborate fantasy where everything fits just right and, at the moment, you are not playing along.

Keep in mind that WW has changed from the W she used to be but you are also changing and this confuses WW. She will test you to see if she can get a handle on the "new you". At least that is my theory. I wonder if any FWW's here have any ideas.

Don't worry about BIL's question. He actually did you a favor because it is a question that you could very easily have posed if you were still allowed to use the word "why" (which you are not). I am glad he asked it and he might have had good intentions. I am sure he talks to MIL and FIL and understands their wishes. Just don't involve him yourself. Use your Plan A on him too. Remember your history with him has not always been the best.

You will be surprised how few plans that WW and OM may actually have. In my case, at one point we were preparing for WW to leave. She had no idea where she and OM would live, what they would do, if they would get married or just live together, if she would work or not, etc. They spent hours on the phone for months but apparently had not made one single plan. Plans are real and the A is fantasy. It is far easier to talk about how much you are in love and how you will live happily ever after. That fulfills the fantasy. Concrete plans just get in the way and are totally unnecessary. The are minor details that will magically work themselves out. I am sure it would never occur to her that home improvement was a waste of time because she was planning on leaving. She compartmentalizes. I am sure that helps her retain her sanity. Her life with you has nothing to do with the affair. She keeps that separate. It would never occur to her that home improvement is a wasted exercise if she were planning on leaving. BIL's question had to make her wonder, even for a fleeting moment, just what the heck she was doing.

Remember that WW will do thinks to provoke you. Don't get mad. Stick to your plan. You said:



You may never know the answer to this so don't think about it. Your plan stays the same regardless of what she does. Who is going to install the tiles? Will she do it or will she help? Get her as involved as best you can.

LA,

I liked your domain name suggestion. Always nice to have a woman's touch. I bought it. It will take about 24-48 hours for the registries to update. They poll every 24 hours as I understand it. I will add a bulletin board to it if I can remember how... Let's see if you really do post.

I like your theory about Bubba and Billy. I guess that’s exactly what happened in the past few days. One day Bubba, the next day Billy. Today, I had no doubt, it was Bubba 100%. She came home, everybody was in the basement, but she didn’t come downstairs. She didn’t talk to anyone. After a while I decided to go to a store with my FIL. I went upstairs, I told her we were going to go out but she was very cold and basically ignored me. So we left. I believe it’s better to leave her alone when she’s acting like this. Nothing changed while we were away. We came back. I told her that I got two tickets for the auto show but she walked away while I was talking to her telling me that she’ll think about it…
That was for tonight. She went in the bedroom at 9.00PM.

She told me before we bought the tiles that she wanted to do this job. Maybe I should involve myself and try work together with her?

About her plans. She might have thought about where she was going to stay. I have noticed on our computer that she visited a few websites for apartment rentals.

Offer to help with tiles but don't insist and only do so once she gets ready to begin the work. Just make sure she is involved one way or the other. I will be curious to see how long those tiles just sit around. Never mention them if they are not installed soon. Just ignore them.

So you saw she may have been look for apartment rentals. How does that make you feel? You already know why I am asking - don't you? Be honest here.

Don't panic that she MAY be looking for apartments. She might be. She might have made up her mind to leave. Have a Plan B program ready just in case. She might be looking at this and be panicking herself. There is a big difference between talking about making a major life change and actually doing it. She might be more panicked than anybody. You don't know (and can't know) so don't worry about it. It is not your problem to deal with.

Keep one thing in the back of your mind. She is not a novice with computers. She has probably long since figured out that you are checking up on her with the PC. She can just as easily use it for disinformation as information. This is one of the reasons I wanted you to stay away from the emails. I am afraid that you have said and done too much already that you may have compromised the PC as a reliable information source. Now, if you start thinking about it and start asking "is this what she is really thinking or is this what she WANTS me to think she is really thinking", well, just go and check yourself into that rubber room. Just remember: if you go to that room, dress for it - jacket and tied required!

She woke up at 6.00AM today. In a good mood. She spent about an hour in front of the computer (same one I am using right now). Her cell phone is right here. One foot away from my hand, but I am not going to touch it. Same way I didn't chek her emails for the past I don't know how many days. She probably had contact with the OM.
She started wroking on the tile project.
She told me to take my father to the auto show... Should I leave her with her parents and the kids the whole day?

Anyways, I am going to go upstairs to ask her if she needs my help on her project.

Later

I think WW needs to connect to the kids too. I just hope MIL does not do all the work. Oh well. You have a lot of temptation within fingertip reach. Stay strong. You can do it.

Just remember that you not checking emails is for your benefit. I think that source is compromised anyway. You can no longer rely on the info as credible. Regardless, you have to get your head screwed on straight and it looks like you are finally starting to do just that. I am proud of you boy. Just keep going.

Traic, you said this a coupla posts ago, and I thought it would bear repeating. This is what it ALL boils down to. For you. For Adrian. For me. For pretty much all of us. It's really quite simple when you think about it.

That's why you gotta take care of you. Get your head on straight. Calm your heart and your head and play it cool.

I believe that first of all she needs to see me in the first place, then to see me as someone she wants to be married to. Right now she treats like I am invisible, someone who doesn't exist. We went to Home Depot this morning to by some trims to finish the tile project. All conversations were f*cked up, even though I tried my best. We came back home and she left to the Bank. I knew that she was going to do that but she simply took off without telling anybody. We just realized at one point of time she was no longer in the house. Then she called me to tell me that she had to wait for an hour so she would go for a drive...
My plan was to spend time with our DDs (me + my WW). All my ideas were rejected by her, but there is a posiblity we might go pick up a circular saw from a friend of mine. Just the two of us (no DDs). It's better than nothing but IMO the fog not only it's there but it's very thick.

I have to admit that I kind of got nervous but I came here and calmed down. I expected smething else from this morning but hey, it could be worse.

Dude... if you think she isn't fully aware of you... you are wrong. She may act like you are invisible, but NOTHING could be further from the truth.

Also, I tell you truly, it is not better that she NOT 'see you in the first place' then see you as someone she wants to be married to."

In fact, if there are aspects to your behaviour that are going to work against you being an attractive choice to her... it would be far far better that she not see any of that at all.

Enjoy the good moments with her when they come... then afterwards, give her some space and time to digest the experience. One mistake I made with my WW was that when things went well, I'd be like an addict, grasping for more more more. That has set me back and is still something I have to watch out for.

Bide your time. Play it cool. Relax...

I personally think you are doing well. Your posts still have that panicky quality, but your actions seem to be holding to the path.

Unfortunately I am not in the position to grasp for more because I don't see things going well in my case to begin with. She still has contact. Anyone can see that. I am fed up with everything. I am tired of this game. I am tired of being Mr. Niceguy while she is Ms. "I do whatever I want". I am only hoping I won't explode one day and ruin everything I've done so far.

We'll take our older daughter to the skating arena tonight... I'll post after that.

I have faith that you'll go to Plan B before exploding and ruining, Adrian.

I have faith that you know you don't just pretend to be MrNiceGuy, but that is who you really are. A human doing the best he can with what he believes and how he feels.

I would hope this MrNiceGuy would stop DJing others, because he is judging them, which gives himself more pain. I believe Adrian won't continue to do this to himself. I believe he will see himself as the kind of man who respects others and does not mindread or assume.

I see Adrian as respecting himself...acknowledging that cell phones within his reach are painful symbols; that he has triggers of the present and the past and that he knows he has control of himself and is strong enough to admit his feelings and strive to understand them.

I want to post on www.the-friends-of-adrians-marriage.com very soon. Tell the world how I see him and that was he's doing is very significant and real. And tough. And understood.

LA

And to dewt...

I was just like that!!!! Grasping at first hint...oh, my. :::

Good to know about me.

LA

adrianc,

Please go back a bit in your thread and reread what I said to you when you made the comment that "you hated Plan A" just so I don't have to repeat myself.

What you are feeling is what we all feel at times. It is natural. You are trying to deal with a complex plan while trying to cope with your own hurt. This is why you need to get help as in IC. If you progress and make headway in your Plan with WW and things begin to move to R for the both of you, things are going to get far worse for you. I know you can't worry about that just yet because that is so far distant (could be days could be weeks) from where you are now.

I can promise you that even if you get this whole thing turned around and WWbecomes the dutiful W again, you are going to have some serious personal issues to cope with. I know because I am there and it is far scarier than where you are now.

Plan A is a thankless filthy job. If it makes you feel better, remember you are not alone. Many of us are suffering along side you in our own battles. Actually I don't know why that would make you feel any better because it depresses the heck out of me. Unfortunately it is the path we have chosen.

Remember that you can walk away from this at any time or you can go to Plan B. Nobody will have any less respect for you and you can certainly respect yourself. Just try to remember the running analogy. When you have nothing left to give and no energy left, the trick to running is to try to throw yourself face forward and miss.

The feeling is normal. Vent it here and be done with it and get back to being consistent. Always remember that WW is trying to provoke you. I can assure you she would be far happier if you yelled, screamed and fought with her night and day. That is what she wants and needs to satisfy her fantasy. You are not playing by her rules and it is driving her insane.

If you get really fed up, before you do anything else, help me with info you want to put on the web site. Remember that the intent is exposure. I still don't see the DNS updated here although that is not unusual as it can take 48 hours for it to be updated worldwide. I may not have set the URL properly and, if not, will get it fixed tomorrow (today). I also made a mistake when I set up the hosting because I plan to use a server I have for another URL. What may happen is that I may get it working and then it will go down for about a day and then go back to working fulltime. I should have just used domain forwarding rather than replacement. As always 20-20 hindsight. Oh, and I hate to say this but your OM got a real nastygram yesterday from an anonymous email account. Poor guy. Don't ask me how I know this because I have no idea who sent it.

I had the most excellent pleasure of spending a few weeks snowboarding in the interior of British Colombia this winter. My guide was taking me up a mountain on his snowmobile and he had it pinned. It was killing me. My leg muscles were past the point of complaining, past the point of pain. They were jelly and I could barely hold on. Being somewhat macho, I did not want to admit that I needed a break.

At certain point however, reality over-rode my natural desire to look tough in front of another dude and I had to ask him to stop for a moment.

He points up the hill, at the beautiful white expanse of snow towering above us and says, "can't stop here, avalanche path."

So, I held on. I held on for another 2 kilometres until it was safe for us to stop.

It was (and is) the same when it came to my wife.

When the affair was going on, I thought I couldn't bear another hour.

After I pushed her into a decision and we split up, the pain was so intense I thought I couldn't bear another day.

After 3 months, I thought I couldn't bear another week.

After 7 months, I thought I couldn't bear another season. The thought of going into a 'one year' anniversery with stuff still a wrecked was unbearable...

We are now past 2 years and although the affair is over and we are living next to each other and getting along, we are still not in 'recovery'. I strongly suspect it will be some time before we officially cross that line...

BUT...

I am still here.

'Cause I can take it.

I can take anything for the good of my family.

I would be willing to die for them if I had too. I wouldn't even have to think about it.

Anything.

Certainly this is less than dying... although it felt pretty close at times...

What I'm trying to get at is that I have realized, after proving it to myself over and over, that I am capable of a lot more than I think I am.

I think we all are.

I think we forget that sometimes.

But if we keep our eyes on the prize and refuse to give up, I don't think we can ever be defeated.

adrianc,

I understand your doubts. I also understand that you may reach a point where you can't take any more. What are your thoughts about what is going to happen in April? I think your IL's have about 8 more weeks before their visas expire? That will change things significantly for you and WW. It is going to put a lot of additional stress on both of you. Have you thought it through as to how you are going to manage without MIL? I am sure you realize she is doing a lot for you but I am also sure you don't realize exactly how much she has done because you, like me, are male and we are simply clueless. You need to have a plan on how you are going to take care of the children and WW needs to understand and accept her part of the responsibilities too. I think MIL leaving will be a good thing in that it will force WW to assume more familiar responsibility. I think it will force her to reconnect with her children. Right now she can justify her neglect because MIL is there to pick up the slack but that will soon become impossible. My fear is that the children will become the battle line and they need to be protected as much as possible. BTW, this is not a question you need answer. I am just thinking out loud again. Just plan ahead and be prepared.

Any chance of W going back with her parents for a short while to re-assess her priorities. Like Plan B, maybe?

That's probably an insane suggestion. Nevermind.

It is not insane, dewt. It also brings up the topic of what Plan B would be. In my personal situation, I can see Plan B taking three forms. One of them means the M is likely over. The other two offer some hope. I think it is wise to develop some ideas for a Plan B well before implementing them. I also found it to be therapeutic.

I think your Plan B suggestion is a good one and offers hope for the M. Keep in mind that this particular Plan B does not have to coincide with IL's leaving. WW can always hop on a plane later. On the other hand, it might be beneficial for adrianc to talk about that contingency with the IL's while here so that they understand and are prepared. You have to be careful not to divulge too much info here because MIL has a loose tongue. I would just say that he may want WW to go "home" for a while to have time to reflect. I am afraid that if MIL is back in Romania and suddenly gets a call from WW to pick her up at the airport, MIL would read that as the M is done and over. I think MIL needs a little prep time. Even if Plan B never occurs, it can't hurt to lay some groundwork.

I read everybody's posts.
It's very late and I am so tired I cannot write everything that goes in my mind right now. Plan B is almost imminent, and the idea of WW going back to Romania is not bad...
Anyways, I will post tomorrow.
Before I go, I think you should know that the OM's parents DON'T KNOW about the A.